Waste – FCPS School Facilities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't think it is sound fiscal policy to build additional capacity on the basis that it may be needed some day in the distant future. Especially when there is existing capacity to handle the growth.

Or to build additional capacity in a school to handle overcrowding and then immediately move students out (to the point there is a large surplus of space). This was the case with Lewis and Springfield Estates.

Nor is it okay to mislead on the size of expansions.

But hey, it is just taxpayer's money.

This is all common sense, but clearly there are some beneficiaries of FCPS’s incompetent, discriminatory approach to planning who are prepared to support the blatant waste and harm to others as long as they personally made out OK.

External, independent auditors who assess building plans for school systems across the country disagree with you. Fairfax's buildings and operations plans consistently receive high marks. Fairfax doesn't get to just decide these things on their own you know? There's a whole regulatory process which includes eliminating waste. External auditors consistently recommend adding additional capacity at low cost during needed renovations because it tends on average to be worth it.

This is absolutl2true.

Adding capacity during renovations is the right thing to do fiscally, even if some are unhappy that they are zoned for a low performing high school..

Long term goal setting and sound fiscal and facility management should trump feelings every time.

Expanding capacity also helps minimize incredibly disruptive and expensive rezoning as attendance ebbs and flows.

Adding additions that weren’t needed is how we end up with many high schools are at 85% capacity, while severe overcrowding at other high schools persists for years on end.

You are arguing like fcps schools are on a 5 or 10 year renovation schedule.

As posted above by several posters, FCPS is on a 50 year renovation schedule.

It is the right thing to do with taxpayer money to expand capacity at a much cheaper cost while renovating, than to try to do it as a stand alone project at a much greater expense.

It also makes sense to have extra capacity built in rather than rezoning students back and forth as attendance rises and falls. Changing schools is very negative and disruptive to students, especially teenagers. It can result in a lot of unnecessary time and expense for a school district and lots of unnecessary conflicts.

Doing what you want is not fiscally sound and is not good policy. It is akin to running a school district on panic mode as if every year is a new attendance crisis.

FCPS current policy of expanding during big renovations at a much lower cost is sound, long term, responsible facilities management.

Lee-Lewis was last renovated and expanded in 2005. It has been well under capacity ever since and is forecast to stay that way. How was this money well spent?

We could move some West Springfield kids back to use that space. How about that?

[Anonymous]

The poster above doesn’t seem to realize that the length of the renovation cycle is linked to how much currently gets spent on individual projects.

Obviously if you build a massive addition to West Potomac that isn’t needed outside the normal removal cycle or budget over $130M to renovate a single high school you are going to extend the renovation cycle and find yourself in a position where you can’t make targeted investments where they may be most needed.

FCPS is clumsy and inefficient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't think it is sound fiscal policy to build additional capacity on the basis that it may be needed some day in the distant future. Especially when there is existing capacity to handle the growth.

Or to build additional capacity in a school to handle overcrowding and then immediately move students out (to the point there is a large surplus of space). This was the case with Lewis and Springfield Estates.

Nor is it okay to mislead on the size of expansions.

But hey, it is just taxpayer's money.

This is all common sense, but clearly there are some beneficiaries of FCPS’s incompetent, discriminatory approach to planning who are prepared to support the blatant waste and harm to others as long as they personally made out OK.

External, independent auditors who assess building plans for school systems across the country disagree with you. Fairfax's buildings and operations plans consistently receive high marks. Fairfax doesn't get to just decide these things on their own you know? There's a whole regulatory process which includes eliminating waste. External auditors consistently recommend adding additional capacity at low cost during needed renovations because it tends on average to be worth it.

This is absolutl2true.

Adding capacity during renovations is the right thing to do fiscally, even if some are unhappy that they are zoned for a low performing high school..

Long term goal setting and sound fiscal and facility management should trump feelings every time.

Expanding capacity also helps minimize incredibly disruptive and expensive rezoning as attendance ebbs and flows.

Adding additions that weren’t needed is how we end up with many high schools are at 85% capacity, while severe overcrowding at other high schools persists for years on end.

You are arguing like fcps schools are on a 5 or 10 year renovation schedule.

As posted above by several posters, FCPS is on a 50 year renovation schedule.

It is the right thing to do with taxpayer money to expand capacity at a much cheaper cost while renovating, than to try to do it as a stand alone project at a much greater expense.

It also makes sense to have extra capacity built in rather than rezoning students back and forth as attendance rises and falls. Changing schools is very negative and disruptive to students, especially teenagers. It can result in a lot of unnecessary time and expense for a school district and lots of unnecessary conflicts.

Doing what you want is not fiscally sound and is not good policy. It is akin to running a school district on panic mode as if every year is a new attendance crisis.

FCPS current policy of expanding during big renovations at a much lower cost is sound, long term, responsible facilities management.

Lee-Lewis was last renovated and expanded in 2005. It has been well under capacity ever since and is forecast to stay that way. How was this money well spent?

We could move some West Springfield kids back to use that space. How about that?

The Lee-Lewis plan is related to the redevelopment of the mall and the expansion of businesses near there. It hasn't really born out yet - can you promise that it won't in the next 35+ years? And then that would justify not expanding WSHS during the renovation there? That makes sense to you?

They are two separate schools and going by past data, the area will expand in the next 30-50 years. Maybe with climate change it won't. Maybe we will have catastrophic population collapse related to worldwide lack of water or WWIII. But potential apocalypse is not a reason to forego expansion during a renovation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The poster above doesn’t seem to realize that the length of the renovation cycle is linked to how much currently gets spent on individual projects.

Obviously if you build a massive addition to West Potomac that isn’t needed outside the normal removal cycle or budget over $130M to renovate a single high school you are going to extend the renovation cycle and find yourself in a position where you can’t make targeted investments where they may be most needed.

FCPS is clumsy and inefficient.

No, it's based on the age of the building. There are school districts that don't renovate old buildings. Glad we don't do that here...

[Anonymous]

Lewis is going to need that extra capacity in the next decade or so.

If you are familiar with the area, you would knkw that there are a lot of redevelopment projects coming down the pipeline over the next couple of years, surrounding the mall and the worn down commercial areas along Backlick and the mixing bowl.

They are in the initial stages with the new park and ride infrastructure going in around Backlik, as well as several renovated shopping centers. A lot more plazas in that area are going vacant now, for future redevelopment.

They also have a new Lego amusement center going into the mall area over the next year or two.

There is going to be attendance growth at Lewis in the next decade that will happen organically as the area continues to redevelop and improve.

That is why the renovations should be based on long term planning and why fcps needs to expand the high schools as they come up in the schedule for full gut renovations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You prefer the Arlington model where they reduce capacity during renovation. However, when enrollment increases, the new school building is immediately overcrowded. But at least there was a short period of non-wastefulness.

They are expanding and growth is not following - particularly in the southeast part of the county. I would prefer they restrain the expansions when there is available space nearby. Some of this is egregious. Simply done to avoid changing boundaries - I don't think that can be denied.

The school buildings are old and will be renovated. It makes sense to add extra space during renovation that isn't needed than to "restrain" expansion when space may be needed in the next 10-20 years (or later). School buildings are on a 50 year cycle - enrollment could increase or decrease a lot in the coming decades.

+1, I work at a school that is 60+ years old and is scheduled to be renovated in the next few years. It is a DUMP. Everything is old and broken. These schools, including teachers and students, deserve to come to a place that isn’t an eye sore.

No one is arguing against the renovation of a dumpy school. However, just because a school is a dump doesn’t mean it deserves a huge addition if there’s nothing in the projections suggesting a need for it. It’s a misallocation of taxpayer money and FCPS has been discriminatory in its expenditures, in some cases funding additions outside the renovation cycle and in other cases ignoring schools that are overcrowded. If there were accountability in FCPS, there would be audits and some Gatehouse employees would likely be barred from holding public employment.

All building plans and projects ARE audited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't think it is sound fiscal policy to build additional capacity on the basis that it may be needed some day in the distant future. Especially when there is existing capacity to handle the growth.

Or to build additional capacity in a school to handle overcrowding and then immediately move students out (to the point there is a large surplus of space). This was the case with Lewis and Springfield Estates.

Nor is it okay to mislead on the size of expansions.

But hey, it is just taxpayer's money.

This is all common sense, but clearly there are some beneficiaries of FCPS’s incompetent, discriminatory approach to planning who are prepared to support the blatant waste and harm to others as long as they personally made out OK.

External, independent auditors who assess building plans for school systems across the country disagree with you. Fairfax's buildings and operations plans consistently receive high marks. Fairfax doesn't get to just decide these things on their own you know? There's a whole regulatory process which includes eliminating waste. External auditors consistently recommend adding additional capacity at low cost during needed renovations because it tends on average to be worth it.

That's sensible. So now, when external, independent auditors tell FCPS that issues of equity and high disparity in outcomes based on pyramid need to be addressed, our FCPS families shouldn't be vehemently against such actions. E.g. the final recommendations of the boundary review consultants from last December were met with opposition since it was made clear that boundaries right now strongly favor high-SES families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't think it is sound fiscal policy to build additional capacity on the basis that it may be needed some day in the distant future. Especially when there is existing capacity to handle the growth.

Or to build additional capacity in a school to handle overcrowding and then immediately move students out (to the point there is a large surplus of space). This was the case with Lewis and Springfield Estates.

Nor is it okay to mislead on the size of expansions.

But hey, it is just taxpayer's money.

This is all common sense, but clearly there are some beneficiaries of FCPS’s incompetent, discriminatory approach to planning who are prepared to support the blatant waste and harm to others as long as they personally made out OK.

External, independent auditors who assess building plans for school systems across the country disagree with you. Fairfax's buildings and operations plans consistently receive high marks. Fairfax doesn't get to just decide these things on their own you know? There's a whole regulatory process which includes eliminating waste. External auditors consistently recommend adding additional capacity at low cost during needed renovations because it tends on average to be worth it.

That's sensible. So now, when external, independent auditors tell FCPS that issues of equity and high disparity in outcomes based on pyramid need to be addressed, our FCPS families shouldn't be vehemently against such actions. E.g. the final recommendations of the boundary review consultants from last December were met with opposition since it was made clear that boundaries right now strongly favor high-SES families.

Those sessions were a joke and not based on sound fiscal policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lewis is going to need that extra capacity in the next decade or so.

If you are familiar with the area, you would knkw that there are a lot of redevelopment projects coming down the pipeline over the next couple of years, surrounding the mall and the worn down commercial areas along Backlick and the mixing bowl.

They are in the initial stages with the new park and ride infrastructure going in around Backlik, as well as several renovated shopping centers. A lot more plazas in that area are going vacant now, for future redevelopment.

They also have a new Lego amusement center going into the mall area over the next year or two.

There is going to be attendance growth at Lewis in the next decade that will happen organically as the area continues to redevelop and improve.

That is why the renovations should be based on long term planning and why fcps needs to expand the high schools as they come up in the schedule for full gut renovations.

Very familiar with the area. The mall owners are having trouble getting any developers to bite on building any projects on the mall property. So nothing there for now. The Lego place, new parking garage, and renovated shopping centers are not going to generate new students. The county does not see any significant growth at Lewis. It will actually drop into the 1600s for several years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The poster above doesn’t seem to realize that the length of the renovation cycle is linked to how much currently gets spent on individual projects.

Obviously if you build a massive addition to West Potomac that isn’t needed outside the normal removal cycle or budget over $130M to renovate a single high school you are going to extend the renovation cycle and find yourself in a position where you can’t make targeted investments where they may be most needed.

FCPS is clumsy and inefficient.

No, it's based on the age of the building. There are school districts that don't renovate old buildings. Glad we don't do that here...

You are missing the point of the poster. The renovation cycle could be shorter if extra money wasn't spent on certain projects. The county can only take so much money out in the form of bonds. If $130M is spent on one large project, that will slow the execution of three $43M projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't think it is sound fiscal policy to build additional capacity on the basis that it may be needed some day in the distant future. Especially when there is existing capacity to handle the growth.

Or to build additional capacity in a school to handle overcrowding and then immediately move students out (to the point there is a large surplus of space). This was the case with Lewis and Springfield Estates.

Nor is it okay to mislead on the size of expansions.

But hey, it is just taxpayer's money.

This is all common sense, but clearly there are some beneficiaries of FCPS’s incompetent, discriminatory approach to planning who are prepared to support the blatant waste and harm to others as long as they personally made out OK.

External, independent auditors who assess building plans for school systems across the country disagree with you. Fairfax's buildings and operations plans consistently receive high marks. Fairfax doesn't get to just decide these things on their own you know? There's a whole regulatory process which includes eliminating waste. External auditors consistently recommend adding additional capacity at low cost during needed renovations because it tends on average to be worth it.

This is absolutl2true.

Adding capacity during renovations is the right thing to do fiscally, even if some are unhappy that they are zoned for a low performing high school..

Long term goal setting and sound fiscal and facility management should trump feelings every time.

Expanding capacity also helps minimize incredibly disruptive and expensive rezoning as attendance ebbs and flows.

Adding additions that weren’t needed is how we end up with many high schools are at 85% capacity, while severe overcrowding at other high schools persists for years on end.

You are arguing like fcps schools are on a 5 or 10 year renovation schedule.

As posted above by several posters, FCPS is on a 50 year renovation schedule.

It is the right thing to do with taxpayer money to expand capacity at a much cheaper cost while renovating, than to try to do it as a stand alone project at a much greater expense.

It also makes sense to have extra capacity built in rather than rezoning students back and forth as attendance rises and falls. Changing schools is very negative and disruptive to students, especially teenagers. It can result in a lot of unnecessary time and expense for a school district and lots of unnecessary conflicts.

Doing what you want is not fiscally sound and is not good policy. It is akin to running a school district on panic mode as if every year is a new attendance crisis.

FCPS current policy of expanding during big renovations at a much lower cost is sound, long term, responsible facilities management.

Lee-Lewis was last renovated and expanded in 2005. It has been well under capacity ever since and is forecast to stay that way. How was this money well spent?

We could move some West Springfield kids back to use that space. How about that?

The Lee-Lewis plan is related to the redevelopment of the mall and the expansion of businesses near there. It hasn't really born out yet - can you promise that it won't in the next 35+ years? And then that would justify not expanding WSHS during the renovation there? That makes sense to you?

They are two separate schools and going by past data, the area will expand in the next 30-50 years. Maybe with climate change it won't. Maybe we will have catastrophic population collapse related to worldwide lack of water or WWIII. But potential apocalypse is not a reason to forego expansion during a renovation.

I'm pretty sure no school district in the country executes facilities upgrades on what COULD happen in 30-50 years. They might go out 15-20.

[Anonymous]

This is a school system that lets a pedophile work as a middle school counselor for years after his arrest, but we’re supposed to believe they have their act together when it comes to capital spending and facilities? LOL.

Gatehouse is ridden with corruption and incompetence across multiple departments, one of which absolutely has been FTS. Reid would be smart to clean house ASAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Population here continues to grow. They will need that space eventually.

And as people continue to avoid Lewis we just expand West Springfield to 3000 like West Potomac?

Existing capacity should be used first. Growth may never materialize so we should not be expanding until it is clear the students will be there. We have available space in many areas.

Why has Bucknell been operating at 37-40 percent capacity for multiple years?

This is malfeasance.

It's cheaper to assume growth when you are doing a renovation. Comb through the budgets, projections etc. and this is fairly consistent. FCPS has external auditors assess its plans. Calling it malfeasance is ridiculous.

I simply disagree. Karen Corbett Sanders wanted nothing to do with moving students to Mount Vernon. Despite all the room available for years into the future. Bucknell is also in the West Potomac pyramid. What is going on over there? Why don't the other School Board members call her out? Because they also don't want to move students.

Board wide failure.

Most of the major shenanigans are in the Lee [Mackay now Chairman so it has 2 reps on Board of Supervisors and 1 on school board] and Mount Vernon District [ 1 BOS, 1 SB]. Whitman [Mount Vernon pyramid] is in the Sandburg [West Potomac pyramid] attendance area and would be walkers for Whitman are bussed.

The 3 at large representatives on the school board have not done their duties for years and neither has who ever is the chairman of the Board of Supervisors and other district reps on both boards. BOS has to vote on bonds. Mackay called the open capacity at Mount Vernon the elephant in the room. Saudis used to rent the old Mount Vernon HS - now morphing into a community center and none of it's functions will generate a special tax district. Penny Gross [D-Mason District] brought up that fact. Some how the site that should have been the future western HS by Carson MS is now the Saudis.

The point is 2 districts are not operating like the others. Fort Belvoir is in the Mount Vernon District. No way should military connected students have IB at their base schools.

That scope of that Langley addition was foolish. Tholen inherited messes- problems from immersion [overfunded, class sizes, capacity etc].

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't think it is sound fiscal policy to build additional capacity on the basis that it may be needed some day in the distant future. Especially when there is existing capacity to handle the growth.

Or to build additional capacity in a school to handle overcrowding and then immediately move students out (to the point there is a large surplus of space). This was the case with Lewis and Springfield Estates.

Nor is it okay to mislead on the size of expansions.

But hey, it is just taxpayer's money.

This is all common sense, but clearly there are some beneficiaries of FCPS’s incompetent, discriminatory approach to planning who are prepared to support the blatant waste and harm to others as long as they personally made out OK.

External, independent auditors who assess building plans for school systems across the country disagree with you. Fairfax's buildings and operations plans consistently receive high marks. Fairfax doesn't get to just decide these things on their own you know? There's a whole regulatory process which includes eliminating waste. External auditors consistently recommend adding additional capacity at low cost during needed renovations because it tends on average to be worth it.

This is absolutl2true.

Adding capacity during renovations is the right thing to do fiscally, even if some are unhappy that they are zoned for a low performing high school..

Long term goal setting and sound fiscal and facility management should trump feelings every time.

Expanding capacity also helps minimize incredibly disruptive and expensive rezoning as attendance ebbs and flows.

Adding additions that weren’t needed is how we end up with many high schools are at 85% capacity, while severe overcrowding at other high schools persists for years on end.

You are arguing like fcps schools are on a 5 or 10 year renovation schedule.

As posted above by several posters, FCPS is on a 50 year renovation schedule.

It is the right thing to do with taxpayer money to expand capacity at a much cheaper cost while renovating, than to try to do it as a stand alone project at a much greater expense.

It also makes sense to have extra capacity built in rather than rezoning students back and forth as attendance rises and falls. Changing schools is very negative and disruptive to students, especially teenagers. It can result in a lot of unnecessary time and expense for a school district and lots of unnecessary conflicts.

Doing what you want is not fiscally sound and is not good policy. It is akin to running a school district on panic mode as if every year is a new attendance crisis.

FCPS current policy of expanding during big renovations at a much lower cost is sound, long term, responsible facilities management.

Lee-Lewis was last renovated and expanded in 2005. It has been well under capacity ever since and is forecast to stay that way. How was this money well spent?

We could move some West Springfield kids back to use that space. How about that?

The Lee-Lewis plan is related to the redevelopment of the mall and the expansion of businesses near there. It hasn't really born out yet - can you promise that it won't in the next 35+ years? And then that would justify not expanding WSHS during the renovation there? That makes sense to you?

They are two separate schools and going by past data, the area will expand in the next 30-50 years. Maybe with climate change it won't. Maybe we will have catastrophic population collapse related to worldwide lack of water or WWIII. But potential apocalypse is not a reason to forego expansion during a renovation.

I'm pretty sure no school district in the country executes facilities upgrades on what COULD happen in 30-50 years. They might go out 15-20.

Lewis has a redevelopment plan. Maybe it won't work, but the plan is there and it is happening. PP seems to be arguing that there's no plan at all. Or maybe something else, it's not clear.

[Anonymous]

Are we all pretending like parents don’t also fight like crazy against boundary adjustments? The school board is always in a no-win situation.