The Atlantic on SF: is DC too a failed city or about to be one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a failed city, it pretty impossible to buy a house there. When do all these people fleeing actually flee?

When they have kids. There are very few kids in SF.

When does that reflected in real estate prices? For some wacky reason all of these places that people are fleeing seem to have incredible demand

SFH prices are high because they are a preferred housing type everywhere in the US and they are rare in SF and the quantity is decreasing.

Condo prices in SF haven’t increased since 2017.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a failed city, it pretty impossible to buy a house there. When do all these people fleeing actually flee?

When they have kids. There are very few kids in SF.

When does that reflected in real estate prices? For some wacky reason all of these places that people are fleeing seem to have incredible demand

A lot of it is investor purchases. The nicer parts of SF are like the nicer parts of London now: functionally dead. Row upon row of beautiful houses that trade hands and keep prices up, but that are only occupied a few weeks a year at most. It is impossible to evict tenants so it’s not worth it to rent.

Don’t mistake the prices for a thriving city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This quote really resonates:

In February 2021, board members agreed that they would avoid the phrase learning loss to describe what was happening to kids locked out of their classrooms. Instead they would use the words learning change. Schools being shut just meant students were “having different learning experiences than the ones we currently measure,” Gabriela López, a member of the board at the time, said. “They are learning more about their families and their cultures.” Framing this as some kind of “deficit” was wrong, the board argued.

The gaslighting on the harms of the school closures from progressives is unreal.

Holy crap. That quote is pure insanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a failed city, it pretty impossible to buy a house there. When do all these people fleeing actually flee?

When they have kids. There are very few kids in SF.

When does that reflected in real estate prices? For some wacky reason all of these places that people are fleeing seem to have incredible demand

A lot of it is investor purchases. The nicer parts of SF are like the nicer parts of London now: functionally dead. Row upon row of beautiful houses that trade hands and keep prices up, but that are only occupied a few weeks a year at most. It is impossible to evict tenants so it’s not worth it to rent.

Don’t mistake the prices for a thriving city.

So investors see these units as good investments and they are still getting good returns, but there is no demand for these homes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a failed city, it pretty impossible to buy a house there. When do all these people fleeing actually flee?

When they have kids. There are very few kids in SF.

When does that reflected in real estate prices? For some wacky reason all of these places that people are fleeing seem to have incredible demand

A lot of it is investor purchases. The nicer parts of SF are like the nicer parts of London now: functionally dead. Row upon row of beautiful houses that trade hands and keep prices up, but that are only occupied a few weeks a year at most. It is impossible to evict tenants so it’s not worth it to rent.

Don’t mistake the prices for a thriving city.

So investors see these units as good investments and they are still getting good returns, but there is no demand for these homes?

There is demand for SFH because there aren’t many SFH and the investor class thinks of them as investments. But even for SFH, there is less demand now for SFH who are buying the house as their primary residence.

There is not nearly as much demand for condos. Prices have been flat for years and in some neighborhoods, they aren’t selling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a failed city, it pretty impossible to buy a house there. When do all these people fleeing actually flee?

When they have kids. There are very few kids in SF.

When does that reflected in real estate prices? For some wacky reason all of these places that people are fleeing seem to have incredible demand

SFH prices are high because they are a preferred housing type everywhere in the US and they are rare in SF and the quantity is decreasing.

Condo prices in SF haven’t increased since 2017.

source? Rent prices, including condos, is insane in a lot of CA. My parents own a tiny condo in a somewhat industrial area of SoCal. I was looking at renting it out at some point.


A 2br apt in that area will go for over $2300.
3 br condo will go for over $3000.

And these are not newly built, nice condos/apts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a failed city, it pretty impossible to buy a house there. When do all these people fleeing actually flee?

When they have kids. There are very few kids in SF.

When does that reflected in real estate prices? For some wacky reason all of these places that people are fleeing seem to have incredible demand

SFH prices are high because they are a preferred housing type everywhere in the US and they are rare in SF and the quantity is decreasing.

Condo prices in SF haven’t increased since 2017.

source? Rent prices, including condos, is insane in a lot of CA. My parents own a tiny condo in a somewhat industrial area of SoCal. I was looking at renting it out at some point.


A 2br apt in that area will go for over $2300.
3 br condo will go for over $3000.

And these are not newly built, nice condos/apts.

Source for what? The flatline condo prices? That is available if you search for SF real estate condo sales.

The industrial area of SoCal does not have onerous rent control like SF. You can evict renters, so there is value to owning a condo. SF is different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a failed city, it pretty impossible to buy a house there. When do all these people fleeing actually flee?

When they have kids. There are very few kids in SF.

When does that reflected in real estate prices? For some wacky reason all of these places that people are fleeing seem to have incredible demand

SFH prices are high because they are a preferred housing type everywhere in the US and they are rare in SF and the quantity is decreasing.

Condo prices in SF haven’t increased since 2017.

source? Rent prices, including condos, is insane in a lot of CA. My parents own a tiny condo in a somewhat industrial area of SoCal. I was looking at renting it out at some point.


A 2br apt in that area will go for over $2300.
3 br condo will go for over $3000.

And these are not newly built, nice condos/apts.

Source for what? The flatline condo prices? That is available if you search for SF real estate condo sales.

The industrial area of SoCal does not have onerous rent control like SF. You can evict renters, so there is value to owning a condo. SF is different.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/S-F-condo-sales-hit-16-year-high-with-16231333.php

Do you have a source that says otherwise?

[Anonymous]

I thought this was a good article:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Chesa-Boudin-is-out-How-to-make-sure-criminal-17226698.php

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a failed city, it pretty impossible to buy a house there. When do all these people fleeing actually flee?

When they have kids. There are very few kids in SF.

When does that reflected in real estate prices? For some wacky reason all of these places that people are fleeing seem to have incredible demand

SFH prices are high because they are a preferred housing type everywhere in the US and they are rare in SF and the quantity is decreasing.

Condo prices in SF haven’t increased since 2017.

source? Rent prices, including condos, is insane in a lot of CA. My parents own a tiny condo in a somewhat industrial area of SoCal. I was looking at renting it out at some point.


A 2br apt in that area will go for over $2300.
3 br condo will go for over $3000.

And these are not newly built, nice condos/apts.

Source for what? The flatline condo prices? That is available if you search for SF real estate condo sales.

The industrial area of SoCal does not have onerous rent control like SF. You can evict renters, so there is value to owning a condo. SF is different.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/S-F-condo-sales-hit-16-year-high-with-16231333.php

Do you have a source that says otherwise?

I can’t read that link, but here is a discussion about how condo prices stagnated in SF and are only now coming back up:

https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/theres-still-a-window-of-opportunity-for-san-francisco-condo-buyers-01629458319

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a failed city, it pretty impossible to buy a house there. When do all these people fleeing actually flee?

When they have kids. There are very few kids in SF.

When does that reflected in real estate prices? For some wacky reason all of these places that people are fleeing seem to have incredible demand

SFH prices are high because they are a preferred housing type everywhere in the US and they are rare in SF and the quantity is decreasing.

Condo prices in SF haven’t increased since 2017.

source? Rent prices, including condos, is insane in a lot of CA. My parents own a tiny condo in a somewhat industrial area of SoCal. I was looking at renting it out at some point.


A 2br apt in that area will go for over $2300.
3 br condo will go for over $3000.

And these are not newly built, nice condos/apts.

Source for what? The flatline condo prices? That is available if you search for SF real estate condo sales.

The industrial area of SoCal does not have onerous rent control like SF. You can evict renters, so there is value to owning a condo. SF is different.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/S-F-condo-sales-hit-16-year-high-with-16231333.php

Do you have a source that says otherwise?

DP.. I guess the ^PP is saying "flatline" as in "prices aren't shooting up like they did in the earlier 2000s". But, I don't think most reasonable people would call that "flatline since 2017".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a failed city, it pretty impossible to buy a house there. When do all these people fleeing actually flee?

When they have kids. There are very few kids in SF.

When does that reflected in real estate prices? For some wacky reason all of these places that people are fleeing seem to have incredible demand

SFH prices are high because they are a preferred housing type everywhere in the US and they are rare in SF and the quantity is decreasing.

Condo prices in SF haven’t increased since 2017.

source? Rent prices, including condos, is insane in a lot of CA. My parents own a tiny condo in a somewhat industrial area of SoCal. I was looking at renting it out at some point.


A 2br apt in that area will go for over $2300.
3 br condo will go for over $3000.

And these are not newly built, nice condos/apts.

Source for what? The flatline condo prices? That is available if you search for SF real estate condo sales.

The industrial area of SoCal does not have onerous rent control like SF. You can evict renters, so there is value to owning a condo. SF is different.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/local/article/S-F-condo-sales-hit-16-year-high-with-16231333.php

Do you have a source that says otherwise?

I can’t read that link, but here is a discussion about how condo prices stagnated in SF and are only now coming back up:

https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/theres-still-a-window-of-opportunity-for-san-francisco-condo-buyers-01629458319

But that's not saying condo prices haven't increased since 2017, which is what the ^^PP was saying.

That article is about the price drop during the pandemic, but then..

With that said, condo prices have nearly returned to their 2019 and early 2020 prices showing desire for this product type,” she said

So, again, don't know what that ^^PP is talking about "Condo prices in SF haven’t increased since 2017."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a failed city, it pretty impossible to buy a house there. When do all these people fleeing actually flee?

When they have kids. There are very few kids in SF.

When does that reflected in real estate prices? For some wacky reason all of these places that people are fleeing seem to have incredible demand

SFH prices are high because they are a preferred housing type everywhere in the US and they are rare in SF and the quantity is decreasing.

Condo prices in SF haven’t increased since 2017.

source? Rent prices, including condos, is insane in a lot of CA. My parents own a tiny condo in a somewhat industrial area of SoCal. I was looking at renting it out at some point.


A 2br apt in that area will go for over $2300.
3 br condo will go for over $3000.

And these are not newly built, nice condos/apts.

That's less than DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A big issue is SFPD. They stopped arresting for petty crime even before Chesa was elected. This is a theme throughout many cities in the US - the police work slowdown has been real, they stop arresting (except when there’s a gun, a body, or a protest), and that ends up leading to civilians feeling helpless.

A prediction: nothing will change with Chesa gone. SFPD is still pissed off at the Mayor, the council, and the citizens who ask for respect of their rights. How do you reign in a rogue police force?

+1. Police everywhere have pulled back from doing their jobs bc they don't like being criticized. I'm not sure how to fix it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The criticism of covid school closure on this thread is a breath of fresh air. Where were all of you when every other comment was "school isn't childcare!" when working parents were saying they were at their breaking point?

I was advocating for school reopening but my suspicion is that a lot of people who were mad about closures and didn't say anything were dealing with two factors:

1) Parents, teachers, and admin within their school community who were arguing closures were necessary to protect vulnerable kids and families -- it's very hard to speak up when the argument is "you are trying to get poor people of color killed"

2) They were so burned out from overseeing remote education while trying to hold down a job and solve an impossible childcare problem that they had nothing left to advocate for school reopening.

Totally agree- we are in MCPS and I’d say these two factors applied there too.