For everyone insisting MCPS reinstate SROs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A student brought a loaded gun to a pgps the other day. Staff member found it, alerted sro, who confiscated it and called police. Seems the presence of sro might have helped police know the situation they were going to encounter. The SRO may also have had knowledge of kid/situation which seems like it would be useful.

LOL. I don't think this story puts the SRO in a good way. But nice try though

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I very much support SRO's in the building and police stationed outside. You presented one very bias video. Some of them do good. The violence in schools is getting worse.

+1 million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where do JO’s kids go to school?

I want to know this also. It makes a big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where do JO’s kids go to school?

private school. 'nuff said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student brought a loaded gun to a pgps the other day. Staff member found it, alerted sro, who confiscated it and called police. Seems the presence of sro might have helped police know the situation they were going to encounter. The SRO may also have had knowledge of kid/situation which seems like it would be useful.

LOL. I don't think this story puts the SRO in a good way. But nice try though

Will you clarify? I reread that anecdote and I can’t see how it reflects poorly on the SRO at all. It seems like he’s part of a team that resolved the situation.

[Anonymous]

John Oliver is not very objective. I will say that in my school the sro is very helpful. She helps talk a lot of kids down. I am sure it depends on each individual officer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student brought a loaded gun to a pgps the other day. Staff member found it, alerted sro, who confiscated it and called police. Seems the presence of sro might have helped police know the situation they were going to encounter. The SRO may also have had knowledge of kid/situation which seems like it would be useful.

These stories touting SROs always lack enough detail to tell whether they were actually necessary to the good outcome. A staff member found the gun - would they not have been able to safely confiscate it without the SRO? Would they not have been able to call police and tell them the situation? If the story was something like "a kid was bragging about their loaded gun so a teacher called police while the SRO engaged the student safely, using their police training" then I would get it, but that's not what it sounds like happened?

Teacher here. I have absolutely no training in guns. I wouldn’t know how to HOLD it properly. Frankly, that’s not my job. SROs have training I don’t have. I want them close, so they are only a minute away when I am alerted to a weapon in my classroom. I don’t want to have to call the police who then have to DRIVE to the school to help out.

Signed - a teacher who has had to call for an SRO to remove a weapon before

Another teacher here who agrees with you. It seems like people really don't want teachers and school administrators to have support for dealing with theae situations. Ok. So we will call the police more often.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student brought a loaded gun to a pgps the other day. Staff member found it, alerted sro, who confiscated it and called police. Seems the presence of sro might have helped police know the situation they were going to encounter. The SRO may also have had knowledge of kid/situation which seems like it would be useful.

These stories touting SROs always lack enough detail to tell whether they were actually necessary to the good outcome. A staff member found the gun - would they not have been able to safely confiscate it without the SRO? Would they not have been able to call police and tell them the situation? If the story was something like "a kid was bragging about their loaded gun so a teacher called police while the SRO engaged the student safely, using their police training" then I would get it, but that's not what it sounds like happened?

Teacher here. I have absolutely no training in guns. I wouldn’t know how to HOLD it properly. Frankly, that’s not my job. SROs have training I don’t have. I want them close, so they are only a minute away when I am alerted to a weapon in my classroom. I don’t want to have to call the police who then have to DRIVE to the school to help out.

Signed - a teacher who has had to call for an SRO to remove a weapon before

Another teacher here who agrees with you. It seems like people really don't want teachers and school administrators to have support for dealing with theae situations. Ok. So we will call the police more often.

They don't want to deal with their kids who they know are the ones causing issues. Its easier to hand them off to school and let it be school's problem. These kids got this way for a reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student brought a loaded gun to a pgps the other day. Staff member found it, alerted sro, who confiscated it and called police. Seems the presence of sro might have helped police know the situation they were going to encounter. The SRO may also have had knowledge of kid/situation which seems like it would be useful.

These stories touting SROs always lack enough detail to tell whether they were actually necessary to the good outcome. A staff member found the gun - would they not have been able to safely confiscate it without the SRO? Would they not have been able to call police and tell them the situation? If the story was something like "a kid was bragging about their loaded gun so a teacher called police while the SRO engaged the student safely, using their police training" then I would get it, but that's not what it sounds like happened?

Teacher here. I have absolutely no training in guns. I wouldn’t know how to HOLD it properly. Frankly, that’s not my job. SROs have training I don’t have. I want them close, so they are only a minute away when I am alerted to a weapon in my classroom. I don’t want to have to call the police who then have to DRIVE to the school to help out.

Signed - a teacher who has had to call for an SRO to remove a weapon before

Another teacher here who agrees with you. It seems like people really don't want teachers and school administrators to have support for dealing with theae situations. Ok. So we will call the police more often.

So what if you call the police “more often”. You call the SRO or a real cop. No difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student brought a loaded gun to a pgps the other day. Staff member found it, alerted sro, who confiscated it and called police. Seems the presence of sro might have helped police know the situation they were going to encounter. The SRO may also have had knowledge of kid/situation which seems like it would be useful.

These stories touting SROs always lack enough detail to tell whether they were actually necessary to the good outcome. A staff member found the gun - would they not have been able to safely confiscate it without the SRO? Would they not have been able to call police and tell them the situation? If the story was something like "a kid was bragging about their loaded gun so a teacher called police while the SRO engaged the student safely, using their police training" then I would get it, but that's not what it sounds like happened?

Teacher here. I have absolutely no training in guns. I wouldn’t know how to HOLD it properly. Frankly, that’s not my job. SROs have training I don’t have. I want them close, so they are only a minute away when I am alerted to a weapon in my classroom. I don’t want to have to call the police who then have to DRIVE to the school to help out.

Signed - a teacher who has had to call for an SRO to remove a weapon before

Another teacher here who agrees with you. It seems like people really don't want teachers and school administrators to have support for dealing with theae situations. Ok. So we will call the police more often.

People want teachers to have non-cop support for discipline and call cops for crimes.

Currently cops are disciplinarians for thing that are not crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student brought a loaded gun to a pgps the other day. Staff member found it, alerted sro, who confiscated it and called police. Seems the presence of sro might have helped police know the situation they were going to encounter. The SRO may also have had knowledge of kid/situation which seems like it would be useful.

These stories touting SROs always lack enough detail to tell whether they were actually necessary to the good outcome. A staff member found the gun - would they not have been able to safely confiscate it without the SRO? Would they not have been able to call police and tell them the situation? If the story was something like "a kid was bragging about their loaded gun so a teacher called police while the SRO engaged the student safely, using their police training" then I would get it, but that's not what it sounds like happened?

Teacher here. I have absolutely no training in guns. I wouldn’t know how to HOLD it properly. Frankly, that’s not my job. SROs have training I don’t have. I want them close, so they are only a minute away when I am alerted to a weapon in my classroom. I don’t want to have to call the police who then have to DRIVE to the school to help out.

Signed - a teacher who has had to call for an SRO to remove a weapon before

Another teacher here who agrees with you. It seems like people really don't want teachers and school administrators to have support for dealing with theae situations. Ok. So we will call the police more often.

People want teachers to have non-cop support for discipline and call cops for crimes.

Currently cops are disciplinarians for thing that are not crimes.

Do you have evidence? Published data suggests otherwise. There were only 27 arrests during the 2019-2020 school year, all for felonious actions or ones that cause significant danger to the school environment. Those are crimes and they need to be treated as crimes. I think we can agree that isn’t a lot for the largest school system on Maryland, and it also suggests they are not arresting for things that are merely disciplinary.

I am a teacher AND a parent. I want administrative support for discipline and SRO support for crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mass shootings are less than 1% of violence and there are evidence based ways to reduce those. That doesn’t include an SRO although there is significant data showing SRO presence reduces the number of killed.

Mass shootings (planned, indiscriminate attacks) may be less than 1% of "violence" but I would like to know what percent of in-school murders they represent, for one. I don't think it's nearly as low. For two, I have found no significant data showing SRO presence reduces the number killed in a mass shooting, and not for lack of trying. Please share yours. What I have found is data showing the exact opposite. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2776515 The kind of shooter who comes to school intending to kill indiscriminately is not deterred by an SRO/armed guard, because they know full well they're unlikely to get out alive and are often suicidal anyway. I know this is a comparatively rare scenario, and I take comfort in that, but I find the fact that they ever happen completely intolerable and want very much to take action that is actually helpful, and if SROs actually increase the danger to students in these scenarios just by existing in the school with a weapon that the shooter can fantasize about dying in a shootout with, then no thank you.

Much bigger database than the study you cite.

"The case studies reinforce the theory that shootings often result when there is opportunity (i.e., situational crime prevention theory), as identified as easy access to school, gun, or both. The researchers demonstrated that:
Consistent with situational crime prevention theory, shootings in multi-story schools with a police officer present were more likely to be non-fatal."

https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/creation-school-shooting-open-source-database-fuels-understanding?fbclid=IwAR1JII6WW0eJMpmL_PjuKzSpL7k9q7i7-Q0iPryF8yBnwpFhezUS1sQPPtI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please go watch last night's episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and learn a little more about why SROs not only don't work but cause harm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgwqQGvYt0g

Last thing we want is the school system to make decisions based on a one-sided opinion of a TV jokester. Isn't it wise to make decisions based on the research and data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student brought a loaded gun to a pgps the other day. Staff member found it, alerted sro, who confiscated it and called police. Seems the presence of sro might have helped police know the situation they were going to encounter. The SRO may also have had knowledge of kid/situation which seems like it would be useful.

These stories touting SROs always lack enough detail to tell whether they were actually necessary to the good outcome. A staff member found the gun - would they not have been able to safely confiscate it without the SRO? Would they not have been able to call police and tell them the situation? If the story was something like "a kid was bragging about their loaded gun so a teacher called police while the SRO engaged the student safely, using their police training" then I would get it, but that's not what it sounds like happened?

Teacher here. I have absolutely no training in guns. I wouldn’t know how to HOLD it properly. Frankly, that’s not my job. SROs have training I don’t have. I want them close, so they are only a minute away when I am alerted to a weapon in my classroom. I don’t want to have to call the police who then have to DRIVE to the school to help out.

Signed - a teacher who has had to call for an SRO to remove a weapon before

Another teacher here who agrees with you. It seems like people really don't want teachers and school administrators to have support for dealing with theae situations. Ok. So we will call the police more often.

People want teachers to have non-cop support for discipline and call cops for crimes.

Currently cops are disciplinarians for thing that are not crimes.

Do you have evidence? Published data suggests otherwise. There were only 27 arrests during the 2019-2020 school year, all for felonious actions or ones that cause significant danger to the school environment. Those are crimes and they need to be treated as crimes. I think we can agree that isn’t a lot for the largest school system on Maryland, and it also suggests they are not arresting for things that are merely disciplinary.

I am a teacher AND a parent. I want administrative support for discipline and SRO support for crimes.

No, there were 27 "physical arrests" in 2019-2020 made by SROs. The report you're citing says "A physical arrest is made by an SRO when the type of crime is serious in nature, a felony offense, or presents an immediate or continuing disruption or threat to the safety of others. A student who is 18 years old or older cannot be charged as a juvenile; therefore, a physical arrest is necessary since the case cannot be referred to the Department of Juvenile Justice. A physical arrest usually entails taking the student into custody, transporting the student to a police facility for processing, and making a notification to the Department of Juvenile Justice if the student is under the age of 18. Physical arrests accounted for 10% of all student arrests by SROs in the 2019-2020 School Year and equate to about 1 per high school."

So, let's say you're correct that those 27 arrests were for felonious actions or ones that cause significant danger (actually with so few, I'd have liked to see a breakdown of exactly what those arrests were for, because the definition appears to have some wiggle room in it, particularly "immediate or continuing disruption"). Those are the crimes you say you want SRO support for, but the report says those cases represent only 10% of student arrests by SROs.

The other 90% (242) were referred to as "paper" arrests, and while these students are not physically taken to the police station, their cases are referred to the Department of Juvenile Services. The transgressions ending up with "paper" arrests are described as "misdemeanors such as assaults, thefts, and vandalism". The report says "In almost all these cases, the student does not end up with a criminal record". They are very handy with exact figures elsewhere but we are left to wonder what "almost all" means here. Then there's a third category, for which they do not share numbers, called "civil citations", described as "minor violations that typically carry a monetary penalty. The vast majority of civil citations written are for alcohol, tobacco, and minor CDS offenses." CDS is not defined and the monetary penalties are not described.

You might say all of those things are crimes too - assault, theft, vandalism, illegal substances, CDS (whatever that is). But when we're speaking about children, what are we defining as assault, theft, vandalism, and who decides whether a fist fight is a crime worthy of referral to Juvenile Justice vs a disciplinary matter administrators can handle? I don't think we know at all how many of these events were "merely disciplinary".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:John Oliver is not very objective. I will say that in my school the sro is very helpful. She helps talk a lot of kids down. I am sure it depends on each individual officer.

I'd prefer to have fewer people with guns in schools.