ACPS -- what am I missing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in elementary and oldest now in MS but pvt. I would say that public elementary for us wasn’t bad. It wasn’t OMG amazing and I do not drink the KoolAid that most In my community to on public schools here. I would say that George Mason and Barrett are relatively strong. What makes the, really nice is the strong PTA and community. The families here are warm, educated and kids are well adjusted and just really good kids. A close knit community. Academically it’s not academically strong but I’m not that parent that wants my kid to go to Catholic school and know 8th grade vocabulary words in 5th grade. My expectations are for love of learning, engaging and caring teachers and a really healthy social experience. These boxes are checked.

Where things are wrong is more the public curriculum of all the SOL and MAP testing, the work is just really not that hard and the TAG program is not productive in who gets n. The idea of academic equity is ridiculous. Getting everyone to the same level should not be goal rather promoting excellence among all. So philosophically ACOS has a problem there.

But I have told you about the pros and cons we experienced. In terms of MS, I have friends whose kids do great there. You really have to be a well adjuster, very mature and responsible kid who is going to be in honors classes to make it there. If so, it will likely be fine. I would never put my kids there but if they were like perfect kids maybe I would reconsider but I would still be uneasy about it. That’s me. I have pretty high standards when it comes to conceptual learning ~ that is ~ I want more than just transactional pass a test learning. Esp after grade school, personally I think it’s too overwhelming socially with 599 kids per grade on each floor.

We are going to however try to get ours back in public for HS.

A lot depends on your kids. ACPS is not a strong public system in total, but Alex is a really great place to be. We would never want to live in Arl or Falls Church or Fairfax. We are city folk. But I would say that by MS you’d be hard pressed to keep kids in public. I did A lOT of research into the various public elementary school systems around NOVA and if you are strictly concerned about academics, run away from Alex public schools. But if it’s more than just that you seek, elementary I think is good enough.

Thank you for this very balanced, kind and honest post & while I agree with much of it, I have to disagree with you about George Mason.

It's not a good school. Math instruction is particularly weak. Good teachers were run off by the previous principal.

Some current teachers are so obsessed with equity that they refuse to help students because that's "not equitable". When they asked a question, my child was told by their math teacher, "too bad. you must not have been paying attention. you'll have to figure it out."

The "grading" is wildly inconsistent since there isn't a standard (this may be more of a ACPS problem). No homework (that's inequitable too). Never saw a test or any classroom work after kinder. Our fourth grade homeroom teacher lied to me for months on an issue and the administration wouldn't provide any resolution. In fact, they didn't seem concerned at all or see an issue.

Friends with kids in other ACPS ES assure me that it isn't like that at their schools.

It's pretty telling that GM had the most departures over the last two years of any ES in ACPS.

I know test scores aren't the end all and be all but check out the proficiency numbers on the VA DOE website over the years, including pre-pandemic. The results are pretty awful.

These are such privileged white family complaints. You want to see what equity really looks like in ACPS? It’s all the white kids leaving for tag and all the brown and black kids staying behind.

Devil’s advocate: what are they supposed to do if the black and brown kids don’t get the CogAT scores to test into TAG?

Peer-reviewed research shows that CogAT scores, just like SOL and ACT and SAT scores, are deeply correlated to family SES. Add in the significant emphasis on teacher input for TAG selection, and it is patently obvious why the poor POC students don't get selected for TAG. There is no "test into" about being selected for TAG. (Secondary teacher)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in elementary and oldest now in MS but pvt. I would say that public elementary for us wasn’t bad. It wasn’t OMG amazing and I do not drink the KoolAid that most In my community to on public schools here. I would say that George Mason and Barrett are relatively strong. What makes the, really nice is the strong PTA and community. The families here are warm, educated and kids are well adjusted and just really good kids. A close knit community. Academically it’s not academically strong but I’m not that parent that wants my kid to go to Catholic school and know 8th grade vocabulary words in 5th grade. My expectations are for love of learning, engaging and caring teachers and a really healthy social experience. These boxes are checked.

Where things are wrong is more the public curriculum of all the SOL and MAP testing, the work is just really not that hard and the TAG program is not productive in who gets n. The idea of academic equity is ridiculous. Getting everyone to the same level should not be goal rather promoting excellence among all. So philosophically ACOS has a problem there.

But I have told you about the pros and cons we experienced. In terms of MS, I have friends whose kids do great there. You really have to be a well adjuster, very mature and responsible kid who is going to be in honors classes to make it there. If so, it will likely be fine. I would never put my kids there but if they were like perfect kids maybe I would reconsider but I would still be uneasy about it. That’s me. I have pretty high standards when it comes to conceptual learning ~ that is ~ I want more than just transactional pass a test learning. Esp after grade school, personally I think it’s too overwhelming socially with 599 kids per grade on each floor.

We are going to however try to get ours back in public for HS.

A lot depends on your kids. ACPS is not a strong public system in total, but Alex is a really great place to be. We would never want to live in Arl or Falls Church or Fairfax. We are city folk. But I would say that by MS you’d be hard pressed to keep kids in public. I did A lOT of research into the various public elementary school systems around NOVA and if you are strictly concerned about academics, run away from Alex public schools. But if it’s more than just that you seek, elementary I think is good enough.

Thank you for this very balanced, kind and honest post & while I agree with much of it, I have to disagree with you about George Mason.

It's not a good school. Math instruction is particularly weak. Good teachers were run off by the previous principal.

Some current teachers are so obsessed with equity that they refuse to help students because that's "not equitable". When they asked a question, my child was told by their math teacher, "too bad. you must not have been paying attention. you'll have to figure it out."

The "grading" is wildly inconsistent since there isn't a standard (this may be more of a ACPS problem). No homework (that's inequitable too). Never saw a test or any classroom work after kinder. Our fourth grade homeroom teacher lied to me for months on an issue and the administration wouldn't provide any resolution. In fact, they didn't seem concerned at all or see an issue.

Friends with kids in other ACPS ES assure me that it isn't like that at their schools.

It's pretty telling that GM had the most departures over the last two years of any ES in ACPS.

I know test scores aren't the end all and be all but check out the proficiency numbers on the VA DOE website over the years, including pre-pandemic. The results are pretty awful.

These are such privileged white family complaints. You want to see what equity really looks like in ACPS? It’s all the white kids leaving for tag and all the brown and black kids staying behind.

Devil’s advocate: what are they supposed to do if the black and brown kids don’t get the CogAT scores to test into TAG?

Not speaking to the so-called privileged complaints. Just noting that TAG will be changing soon. It will not be pull-outs or a segregated separate 4th/5th grade classroom. And it seems that there may no longer be as much reliance on NNAT or CogAT scores for identification purposes. There will be differentiated plans for all students who need accelerated or more challenging material in any subject area and it will be push-in support. For students from underrepresented groups, there will continue to be more after-school or summer support and enrichment.

When will this change happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in elementary and oldest now in MS but pvt. I would say that public elementary for us wasn’t bad. It wasn’t OMG amazing and I do not drink the KoolAid that most In my community to on public schools here. I would say that George Mason and Barrett are relatively strong. What makes the, really nice is the strong PTA and community. The families here are warm, educated and kids are well adjusted and just really good kids. A close knit community. Academically it’s not academically strong but I’m not that parent that wants my kid to go to Catholic school and know 8th grade vocabulary words in 5th grade. My expectations are for love of learning, engaging and caring teachers and a really healthy social experience. These boxes are checked.

Where things are wrong is more the public curriculum of all the SOL and MAP testing, the work is just really not that hard and the TAG program is not productive in who gets n. The idea of academic equity is ridiculous. Getting everyone to the same level should not be goal rather promoting excellence among all. So philosophically ACOS has a problem there.

But I have told you about the pros and cons we experienced. In terms of MS, I have friends whose kids do great there. You really have to be a well adjuster, very mature and responsible kid who is going to be in honors classes to make it there. If so, it will likely be fine. I would never put my kids there but if they were like perfect kids maybe I would reconsider but I would still be uneasy about it. That’s me. I have pretty high standards when it comes to conceptual learning ~ that is ~ I want more than just transactional pass a test learning. Esp after grade school, personally I think it’s too overwhelming socially with 599 kids per grade on each floor.

We are going to however try to get ours back in public for HS.

A lot depends on your kids. ACPS is not a strong public system in total, but Alex is a really great place to be. We would never want to live in Arl or Falls Church or Fairfax. We are city folk. But I would say that by MS you’d be hard pressed to keep kids in public. I did A lOT of research into the various public elementary school systems around NOVA and if you are strictly concerned about academics, run away from Alex public schools. But if it’s more than just that you seek, elementary I think is good enough.

Thank you for this very balanced, kind and honest post & while I agree with much of it, I have to disagree with you about George Mason.

It's not a good school. Math instruction is particularly weak. Good teachers were run off by the previous principal.

Some current teachers are so obsessed with equity that they refuse to help students because that's "not equitable". When they asked a question, my child was told by their math teacher, "too bad. you must not have been paying attention. you'll have to figure it out."

The "grading" is wildly inconsistent since there isn't a standard (this may be more of a ACPS problem). No homework (that's inequitable too). Never saw a test or any classroom work after kinder. Our fourth grade homeroom teacher lied to me for months on an issue and the administration wouldn't provide any resolution. In fact, they didn't seem concerned at all or see an issue.

Friends with kids in other ACPS ES assure me that it isn't like that at their schools.

It's pretty telling that GM had the most departures over the last two years of any ES in ACPS.

I know test scores aren't the end all and be all but check out the proficiency numbers on the VA DOE website over the years, including pre-pandemic. The results are pretty awful.

These are such privileged white family complaints. You want to see what equity really looks like in ACPS? It’s all the white kids leaving for tag and all the brown and black kids staying behind.

Devil’s advocate: what are they supposed to do if the black and brown kids don’t get the CogAT scores to test into TAG?

Peer-reviewed research shows that CogAT scores, just like SOL and ACT and SAT scores, are deeply correlated to family SES. Add in the significant emphasis on teacher input for TAG selection, and it is patently obvious why the poor POC students don't get selected for TAG. There is no "test into" about being selected for TAG. (Secondary teacher)

Ok, but the vast majority of TAG kids tested in. How many kids are referred in regardless of test scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in elementary and oldest now in MS but pvt. I would say that public elementary for us wasn’t bad. It wasn’t OMG amazing and I do not drink the KoolAid that most In my community to on public schools here. I would say that George Mason and Barrett are relatively strong. What makes the, really nice is the strong PTA and community. The families here are warm, educated and kids are well adjusted and just really good kids. A close knit community. Academically it’s not academically strong but I’m not that parent that wants my kid to go to Catholic school and know 8th grade vocabulary words in 5th grade. My expectations are for love of learning, engaging and caring teachers and a really healthy social experience. These boxes are checked.

Where things are wrong is more the public curriculum of all the SOL and MAP testing, the work is just really not that hard and the TAG program is not productive in who gets n. The idea of academic equity is ridiculous. Getting everyone to the same level should not be goal rather promoting excellence among all. So philosophically ACOS has a problem there.

But I have told you about the pros and cons we experienced. In terms of MS, I have friends whose kids do great there. You really have to be a well adjuster, very mature and responsible kid who is going to be in honors classes to make it there. If so, it will likely be fine. I would never put my kids there but if they were like perfect kids maybe I would reconsider but I would still be uneasy about it. That’s me. I have pretty high standards when it comes to conceptual learning ~ that is ~ I want more than just transactional pass a test learning. Esp after grade school, personally I think it’s too overwhelming socially with 599 kids per grade on each floor.

We are going to however try to get ours back in public for HS.

A lot depends on your kids. ACPS is not a strong public system in total, but Alex is a really great place to be. We would never want to live in Arl or Falls Church or Fairfax. We are city folk. But I would say that by MS you’d be hard pressed to keep kids in public. I did A lOT of research into the various public elementary school systems around NOVA and if you are strictly concerned about academics, run away from Alex public schools. But if it’s more than just that you seek, elementary I think is good enough.

Thank you for this very balanced, kind and honest post & while I agree with much of it, I have to disagree with you about George Mason.

It's not a good school. Math instruction is particularly weak. Good teachers were run off by the previous principal.

Some current teachers are so obsessed with equity that they refuse to help students because that's "not equitable". When they asked a question, my child was told by their math teacher, "too bad. you must not have been paying attention. you'll have to figure it out."

The "grading" is wildly inconsistent since there isn't a standard (this may be more of a ACPS problem). No homework (that's inequitable too). Never saw a test or any classroom work after kinder. Our fourth grade homeroom teacher lied to me for months on an issue and the administration wouldn't provide any resolution. In fact, they didn't seem concerned at all or see an issue.

Friends with kids in other ACPS ES assure me that it isn't like that at their schools.

It's pretty telling that GM had the most departures over the last two years of any ES in ACPS.

I know test scores aren't the end all and be all but check out the proficiency numbers on the VA DOE website over the years, including pre-pandemic. The results are pretty awful.

These are such privileged white family complaints. You want to see what equity really looks like in ACPS? It’s all the white kids leaving for tag and all the brown and black kids staying behind.

Devil’s advocate: what are they supposed to do if the black and brown kids don’t get the CogAT scores to test into TAG?

Not speaking to the so-called privileged complaints. Just noting that TAG will be changing soon. It will not be pull-outs or a segregated separate 4th/5th grade classroom. And it seems that there may no longer be as much reliance on NNAT or CogAT scores for identification purposes. There will be differentiated plans for all students who need accelerated or more challenging material in any subject area and it will be push-in support. For students from underrepresented groups, there will continue to be more after-school or summer support and enrichment.

When will this change happen?

Changes to the design of a new system/model/program are being contemplated and are slated to be finalized/approved this year. It is required that the plan be revised every five years and this is a part of that process. Not sure when the SB would approve implementation/when changes go into effect. Seems that this big of a transition would require some time, likely a year or more to implement – train classroom teachers, train TAG teachers, train paraprofessionals, and come up with curriculum and map out the way services will be delivered in the classroom.

The school board, district, committees, and consultants have reviewed several concepts about the proposed revisions being contemplated and are working on finalizing a delivery model and an identification process. Maybe the proposed changes will change at the end but so far, it appears that there will be a shift in the delivery model from pull-out services for 4th and 5th graders to a push-in model. If you look at what other school districts are doing, one way this would be done would be to group by ability in a classroom depending on the subject matter or topic – several clusters of students working on problems or projects. Some of the models out there also have peers tutoring peers but also ones where peers are on the same academic level.

There also seems to be a shift in what the identification process will look like in that the focus would shift to finding and serving students who need more academically in the moment (and overlaying with an equity lens to ensure students are not overlooked and left behind) and on providing them the additional advanced academic services they need as soon as possible and not only identification of students that is heavily reliant on test scores. It seems that identification would be on a continuum based on a child’s ongoing portfolio and ongoing teacher evaluations and not only identification after test results become available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in elementary and oldest now in MS but pvt. I would say that public elementary for us wasn’t bad. It wasn’t OMG amazing and I do not drink the KoolAid that most In my community to on public schools here. I would say that George Mason and Barrett are relatively strong. What makes the, really nice is the strong PTA and community. The families here are warm, educated and kids are well adjusted and just really good kids. A close knit community. Academically it’s not academically strong but I’m not that parent that wants my kid to go to Catholic school and know 8th grade vocabulary words in 5th grade. My expectations are for love of learning, engaging and caring teachers and a really healthy social experience. These boxes are checked.

Where things are wrong is more the public curriculum of all the SOL and MAP testing, the work is just really not that hard and the TAG program is not productive in who gets n. The idea of academic equity is ridiculous. Getting everyone to the same level should not be goal rather promoting excellence among all. So philosophically ACOS has a problem there.

But I have told you about the pros and cons we experienced. In terms of MS, I have friends whose kids do great there. You really have to be a well adjuster, very mature and responsible kid who is going to be in honors classes to make it there. If so, it will likely be fine. I would never put my kids there but if they were like perfect kids maybe I would reconsider but I would still be uneasy about it. That’s me. I have pretty high standards when it comes to conceptual learning ~ that is ~ I want more than just transactional pass a test learning. Esp after grade school, personally I think it’s too overwhelming socially with 599 kids per grade on each floor.

We are going to however try to get ours back in public for HS.

A lot depends on your kids. ACPS is not a strong public system in total, but Alex is a really great place to be. We would never want to live in Arl or Falls Church or Fairfax. We are city folk. But I would say that by MS you’d be hard pressed to keep kids in public. I did A lOT of research into the various public elementary school systems around NOVA and if you are strictly concerned about academics, run away from Alex public schools. But if it’s more than just that you seek, elementary I think is good enough.

Thank you for this very balanced, kind and honest post & while I agree with much of it, I have to disagree with you about George Mason.

It's not a good school. Math instruction is particularly weak. Good teachers were run off by the previous principal.

Some current teachers are so obsessed with equity that they refuse to help students because that's "not equitable". When they asked a question, my child was told by their math teacher, "too bad. you must not have been paying attention. you'll have to figure it out."

The "grading" is wildly inconsistent since there isn't a standard (this may be more of a ACPS problem). No homework (that's inequitable too). Never saw a test or any classroom work after kinder. Our fourth grade homeroom teacher lied to me for months on an issue and the administration wouldn't provide any resolution. In fact, they didn't seem concerned at all or see an issue.

Friends with kids in other ACPS ES assure me that it isn't like that at their schools.

It's pretty telling that GM had the most departures over the last two years of any ES in ACPS.

I know test scores aren't the end all and be all but check out the proficiency numbers on the VA DOE website over the years, including pre-pandemic. The results are pretty awful.

These are such privileged white family complaints. You want to see what equity really looks like in ACPS? It’s all the white kids leaving for tag and all the brown and black kids staying behind.

Devil’s advocate: what are they supposed to do if the black and brown kids don’t get the CogAT scores to test into TAG?

Not speaking to the so-called privileged complaints. Just noting that TAG will be changing soon. It will not be pull-outs or a segregated separate 4th/5th grade classroom. And it seems that there may no longer be as much reliance on NNAT or CogAT scores for identification purposes. There will be differentiated plans for all students who need accelerated or more challenging material in any subject area and it will be push-in support. For students from underrepresented groups, there will continue to be more after-school or summer support and enrichment.

When will this change happen?

Changes to the design of a new system/model/program are being contemplated and are slated to be finalized/approved this year. It is required that the plan be revised every five years and this is a part of that process. Not sure when the SB would approve implementation/when changes go into effect. Seems that this big of a transition would require some time, likely a year or more to implement – train classroom teachers, train TAG teachers, train paraprofessionals, and come up with curriculum and map out the way services will be delivered in the classroom.

The school board, district, committees, and consultants have reviewed several concepts about the proposed revisions being contemplated and are working on finalizing a delivery model and an identification process. Maybe the proposed changes will change at the end but so far, it appears that there will be a shift in the delivery model from pull-out services for 4th and 5th graders to a push-in model. If you look at what other school districts are doing, one way this would be done would be to group by ability in a classroom depending on the subject matter or topic – several clusters of students working on problems or projects. Some of the models out there also have peers tutoring peers but also ones where peers are on the same academic level.

There also seems to be a shift in what the identification process will look like in that the focus would shift to finding and serving students who need more academically in the moment (and overlaying with an equity lens to ensure students are not overlooked and left behind) and on providing them the additional advanced academic services they need as soon as possible and not only identification of students that is heavily reliant on test scores. It seems that identification would be on a continuum based on a child’s ongoing portfolio and ongoing teacher evaluations and not only identification after test results become available.

Virginia requires districts use a test as a factor in TAG. At the last school board meeting, it did not seem like ACPS had any alternatives to the NNAT or CogAt.

[Anonymous]

Also, no one, not a single person, from ACPS has addressed the multiple-assailant rape that took place during school hours. Would you want to send your kids to schools run by cowards who refuse to talk about safety - just hoping each day another shooting or rape does not occur?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in elementary and oldest now in MS but pvt. I would say that public elementary for us wasn’t bad. It wasn’t OMG amazing and I do not drink the KoolAid that most In my community to on public schools here. I would say that George Mason and Barrett are relatively strong. What makes the, really nice is the strong PTA and community. The families here are warm, educated and kids are well adjusted and just really good kids. A close knit community. Academically it’s not academically strong but I’m not that parent that wants my kid to go to Catholic school and know 8th grade vocabulary words in 5th grade. My expectations are for love of learning, engaging and caring teachers and a really healthy social experience. These boxes are checked.

Where things are wrong is more the public curriculum of all the SOL and MAP testing, the work is just really not that hard and the TAG program is not productive in who gets n. The idea of academic equity is ridiculous. Getting everyone to the same level should not be goal rather promoting excellence among all. So philosophically ACOS has a problem there.

But I have told you about the pros and cons we experienced. In terms of MS, I have friends whose kids do great there. You really have to be a well adjuster, very mature and responsible kid who is going to be in honors classes to make it there. If so, it will likely be fine. I would never put my kids there but if they were like perfect kids maybe I would reconsider but I would still be uneasy about it. That’s me. I have pretty high standards when it comes to conceptual learning ~ that is ~ I want more than just transactional pass a test learning. Esp after grade school, personally I think it’s too overwhelming socially with 599 kids per grade on each floor.

We are going to however try to get ours back in public for HS.

A lot depends on your kids. ACPS is not a strong public system in total, but Alex is a really great place to be. We would never want to live in Arl or Falls Church or Fairfax. We are city folk. But I would say that by MS you’d be hard pressed to keep kids in public. I did A lOT of research into the various public elementary school systems around NOVA and if you are strictly concerned about academics, run away from Alex public schools. But if it’s more than just that you seek, elementary I think is good enough.

Thank you for this very balanced, kind and honest post & while I agree with much of it, I have to disagree with you about George Mason.

It's not a good school. Math instruction is particularly weak. Good teachers were run off by the previous principal.

Some current teachers are so obsessed with equity that they refuse to help students because that's "not equitable". When they asked a question, my child was told by their math teacher, "too bad. you must not have been paying attention. you'll have to figure it out."

The "grading" is wildly inconsistent since there isn't a standard (this may be more of a ACPS problem). No homework (that's inequitable too). Never saw a test or any classroom work after kinder. Our fourth grade homeroom teacher lied to me for months on an issue and the administration wouldn't provide any resolution. In fact, they didn't seem concerned at all or see an issue.

Friends with kids in other ACPS ES assure me that it isn't like that at their schools.

It's pretty telling that GM had the most departures over the last two years of any ES in ACPS.

I know test scores aren't the end all and be all but check out the proficiency numbers on the VA DOE website over the years, including pre-pandemic. The results are pretty awful.

These are such privileged white family complaints. You want to see what equity really looks like in ACPS? It’s all the white kids leaving for tag and all the brown and black kids staying behind.

Devil’s advocate: what are they supposed to do if the black and brown kids don’t get the CogAT scores to test into TAG?

Peer-reviewed research shows that CogAT scores, just like SOL and ACT and SAT scores, are deeply correlated to family SES. Add in the significant emphasis on teacher input for TAG selection, and it is patently obvious why the poor POC students don't get selected for TAG. There is no "test into" about being selected for TAG. (Secondary teacher)

Ok, but the vast majority of TAG kids tested in. How many kids are referred in regardless of test scores?

No, "tested in" is not an accurate description of how they ended up in TAG.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in elementary and oldest now in MS but pvt. I would say that public elementary for us wasn’t bad. It wasn’t OMG amazing and I do not drink the KoolAid that most In my community to on public schools here. I would say that George Mason and Barrett are relatively strong. What makes the, really nice is the strong PTA and community. The families here are warm, educated and kids are well adjusted and just really good kids. A close knit community. Academically it’s not academically strong but I’m not that parent that wants my kid to go to Catholic school and know 8th grade vocabulary words in 5th grade. My expectations are for love of learning, engaging and caring teachers and a really healthy social experience. These boxes are checked.

Where things are wrong is more the public curriculum of all the SOL and MAP testing, the work is just really not that hard and the TAG program is not productive in who gets n. The idea of academic equity is ridiculous. Getting everyone to the same level should not be goal rather promoting excellence among all. So philosophically ACOS has a problem there.

But I have told you about the pros and cons we experienced. In terms of MS, I have friends whose kids do great there. You really have to be a well adjuster, very mature and responsible kid who is going to be in honors classes to make it there. If so, it will likely be fine. I would never put my kids there but if they were like perfect kids maybe I would reconsider but I would still be uneasy about it. That’s me. I have pretty high standards when it comes to conceptual learning ~ that is ~ I want more than just transactional pass a test learning. Esp after grade school, personally I think it’s too overwhelming socially with 599 kids per grade on each floor.

We are going to however try to get ours back in public for HS.

A lot depends on your kids. ACPS is not a strong public system in total, but Alex is a really great place to be. We would never want to live in Arl or Falls Church or Fairfax. We are city folk. But I would say that by MS you’d be hard pressed to keep kids in public. I did A lOT of research into the various public elementary school systems around NOVA and if you are strictly concerned about academics, run away from Alex public schools. But if it’s more than just that you seek, elementary I think is good enough.

Thank you for this very balanced, kind and honest post & while I agree with much of it, I have to disagree with you about George Mason.

It's not a good school. Math instruction is particularly weak. Good teachers were run off by the previous principal.

Some current teachers are so obsessed with equity that they refuse to help students because that's "not equitable". When they asked a question, my child was told by their math teacher, "too bad. you must not have been paying attention. you'll have to figure it out."

The "grading" is wildly inconsistent since there isn't a standard (this may be more of a ACPS problem). No homework (that's inequitable too). Never saw a test or any classroom work after kinder. Our fourth grade homeroom teacher lied to me for months on an issue and the administration wouldn't provide any resolution. In fact, they didn't seem concerned at all or see an issue.

Friends with kids in other ACPS ES assure me that it isn't like that at their schools.

It's pretty telling that GM had the most departures over the last two years of any ES in ACPS.

I know test scores aren't the end all and be all but check out the proficiency numbers on the VA DOE website over the years, including pre-pandemic. The results are pretty awful.

These are such privileged white family complaints. You want to see what equity really looks like in ACPS? It’s all the white kids leaving for tag and all the brown and black kids staying behind.

Devil’s advocate: what are they supposed to do if the black and brown kids don’t get the CogAT scores to test into TAG?

Peer-reviewed research shows that CogAT scores, just like SOL and ACT and SAT scores, are deeply correlated to family SES. Add in the significant emphasis on teacher input for TAG selection, and it is patently obvious why the poor POC students don't get selected for TAG. There is no "test into" about being selected for TAG. (Secondary teacher)

Ok, but the vast majority of TAG kids tested in. How many kids are referred in regardless of test scores?

No, "tested in" is not an accurate description of how they ended up in TAG.

I can’t speak for all of ACPS, but in my experience, most of the kids in my child’s TAG group got in because of the CogAT scores. I know of one kid whose CogAT score was borderline cutoff who was referred in, and I know of some kids who were referred but didn’t get in. Testing in is by far the way most kids get into TAG.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in elementary and oldest now in MS but pvt. I would say that public elementary for us wasn’t bad. It wasn’t OMG amazing and I do not drink the KoolAid that most In my community to on public schools here. I would say that George Mason and Barrett are relatively strong. What makes the, really nice is the strong PTA and community. The families here are warm, educated and kids are well adjusted and just really good kids. A close knit community. Academically it’s not academically strong but I’m not that parent that wants my kid to go to Catholic school and know 8th grade vocabulary words in 5th grade. My expectations are for love of learning, engaging and caring teachers and a really healthy social experience. These boxes are checked.

Where things are wrong is more the public curriculum of all the SOL and MAP testing, the work is just really not that hard and the TAG program is not productive in who gets n. The idea of academic equity is ridiculous. Getting everyone to the same level should not be goal rather promoting excellence among all. So philosophically ACOS has a problem there.

But I have told you about the pros and cons we experienced. In terms of MS, I have friends whose kids do great there. You really have to be a well adjuster, very mature and responsible kid who is going to be in honors classes to make it there. If so, it will likely be fine. I would never put my kids there but if they were like perfect kids maybe I would reconsider but I would still be uneasy about it. That’s me. I have pretty high standards when it comes to conceptual learning ~ that is ~ I want more than just transactional pass a test learning. Esp after grade school, personally I think it’s too overwhelming socially with 599 kids per grade on each floor.

We are going to however try to get ours back in public for HS.

A lot depends on your kids. ACPS is not a strong public system in total, but Alex is a really great place to be. We would never want to live in Arl or Falls Church or Fairfax. We are city folk. But I would say that by MS you’d be hard pressed to keep kids in public. I did A lOT of research into the various public elementary school systems around NOVA and if you are strictly concerned about academics, run away from Alex public schools. But if it’s more than just that you seek, elementary I think is good enough.

Thank you for this very balanced, kind and honest post & while I agree with much of it, I have to disagree with you about George Mason.

It's not a good school. Math instruction is particularly weak. Good teachers were run off by the previous principal.

Some current teachers are so obsessed with equity that they refuse to help students because that's "not equitable". When they asked a question, my child was told by their math teacher, "too bad. you must not have been paying attention. you'll have to figure it out."

The "grading" is wildly inconsistent since there isn't a standard (this may be more of a ACPS problem). No homework (that's inequitable too). Never saw a test or any classroom work after kinder. Our fourth grade homeroom teacher lied to me for months on an issue and the administration wouldn't provide any resolution. In fact, they didn't seem concerned at all or see an issue.

Friends with kids in other ACPS ES assure me that it isn't like that at their schools.

It's pretty telling that GM had the most departures over the last two years of any ES in ACPS.

I know test scores aren't the end all and be all but check out the proficiency numbers on the VA DOE website over the years, including pre-pandemic. The results are pretty awful.

These are such privileged white family complaints. You want to see what equity really looks like in ACPS? It’s all the white kids leaving for tag and all the brown and black kids staying behind.

Devil’s advocate: what are they supposed to do if the black and brown kids don’t get the CogAT scores to test into TAG?

Peer-reviewed research shows that CogAT scores, just like SOL and ACT and SAT scores, are deeply correlated to family SES. Add in the significant emphasis on teacher input for TAG selection, and it is patently obvious why the poor POC students don't get selected for TAG. There is no "test into" about being selected for TAG. (Secondary teacher)

Ok, but the vast majority of TAG kids tested in. How many kids are referred in regardless of test scores?

No, "tested in" is not an accurate description of how they ended up in TAG.

I can’t speak for all of ACPS, but in my experience, most of the kids in my child’s TAG group got in because of the CogAT scores. I know of one kid whose CogAT score was borderline cutoff who was referred in, and I know of some kids who were referred but didn’t get in. Testing in is by far the way most kids get into TAG.

How do you know this about other people’s kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in elementary and oldest now in MS but pvt. I would say that public elementary for us wasn’t bad. It wasn’t OMG amazing and I do not drink the KoolAid that most In my community to on public schools here. I would say that George Mason and Barrett are relatively strong. What makes the, really nice is the strong PTA and community. The families here are warm, educated and kids are well adjusted and just really good kids. A close knit community. Academically it’s not academically strong but I’m not that parent that wants my kid to go to Catholic school and know 8th grade vocabulary words in 5th grade. My expectations are for love of learning, engaging and caring teachers and a really healthy social experience. These boxes are checked.

Where things are wrong is more the public curriculum of all the SOL and MAP testing, the work is just really not that hard and the TAG program is not productive in who gets n. The idea of academic equity is ridiculous. Getting everyone to the same level should not be goal rather promoting excellence among all. So philosophically ACOS has a problem there.

But I have told you about the pros and cons we experienced. In terms of MS, I have friends whose kids do great there. You really have to be a well adjuster, very mature and responsible kid who is going to be in honors classes to make it there. If so, it will likely be fine. I would never put my kids there but if they were like perfect kids maybe I would reconsider but I would still be uneasy about it. That’s me. I have pretty high standards when it comes to conceptual learning ~ that is ~ I want more than just transactional pass a test learning. Esp after grade school, personally I think it’s too overwhelming socially with 599 kids per grade on each floor.

We are going to however try to get ours back in public for HS.

A lot depends on your kids. ACPS is not a strong public system in total, but Alex is a really great place to be. We would never want to live in Arl or Falls Church or Fairfax. We are city folk. But I would say that by MS you’d be hard pressed to keep kids in public. I did A lOT of research into the various public elementary school systems around NOVA and if you are strictly concerned about academics, run away from Alex public schools. But if it’s more than just that you seek, elementary I think is good enough.

Thank you for this very balanced, kind and honest post & while I agree with much of it, I have to disagree with you about George Mason.

It's not a good school. Math instruction is particularly weak. Good teachers were run off by the previous principal.

Some current teachers are so obsessed with equity that they refuse to help students because that's "not equitable". When they asked a question, my child was told by their math teacher, "too bad. you must not have been paying attention. you'll have to figure it out."

The "grading" is wildly inconsistent since there isn't a standard (this may be more of a ACPS problem). No homework (that's inequitable too). Never saw a test or any classroom work after kinder. Our fourth grade homeroom teacher lied to me for months on an issue and the administration wouldn't provide any resolution. In fact, they didn't seem concerned at all or see an issue.

Friends with kids in other ACPS ES assure me that it isn't like that at their schools.

It's pretty telling that GM had the most departures over the last two years of any ES in ACPS.

I know test scores aren't the end all and be all but check out the proficiency numbers on the VA DOE website over the years, including pre-pandemic. The results are pretty awful.

These are such privileged white family complaints. You want to see what equity really looks like in ACPS? It’s all the white kids leaving for tag and all the brown and black kids staying behind.

Devil’s advocate: what are they supposed to do if the black and brown kids don’t get the CogAT scores to test into TAG?

Peer-reviewed research shows that CogAT scores, just like SOL and ACT and SAT scores, are deeply correlated to family SES. Add in the significant emphasis on teacher input for TAG selection, and it is patently obvious why the poor POC students don't get selected for TAG. There is no "test into" about being selected for TAG. (Secondary teacher)

Ok, but the vast majority of TAG kids tested in. How many kids are referred in regardless of test scores?

No, "tested in" is not an accurate description of how they ended up in TAG.

I can’t speak for all of ACPS, but in my experience, most of the kids in my child’s TAG group got in because of the CogAT scores. I know of one kid whose CogAT score was borderline cutoff who was referred in, and I know of some kids who were referred but didn’t get in. Testing in is by far the way most kids get into TAG.

How do you know this about other people’s kids?

Because I talked to the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is in elementary and oldest now in MS but pvt. I would say that public elementary for us wasn’t bad. It wasn’t OMG amazing and I do not drink the KoolAid that most In my community to on public schools here. I would say that George Mason and Barrett are relatively strong. What makes the, really nice is the strong PTA and community. The families here are warm, educated and kids are well adjusted and just really good kids. A close knit community. Academically it’s not academically strong but I’m not that parent that wants my kid to go to Catholic school and know 8th grade vocabulary words in 5th grade. My expectations are for love of learning, engaging and caring teachers and a really healthy social experience. These boxes are checked.

Where things are wrong is more the public curriculum of all the SOL and MAP testing, the work is just really not that hard and the TAG program is not productive in who gets n. The idea of academic equity is ridiculous. Getting everyone to the same level should not be goal rather promoting excellence among all. So philosophically ACOS has a problem there.

But I have told you about the pros and cons we experienced. In terms of MS, I have friends whose kids do great there. You really have to be a well adjuster, very mature and responsible kid who is going to be in honors classes to make it there. If so, it will likely be fine. I would never put my kids there but if they were like perfect kids maybe I would reconsider but I would still be uneasy about it. That’s me. I have pretty high standards when it comes to conceptual learning ~ that is ~ I want more than just transactional pass a test learning. Esp after grade school, personally I think it’s too overwhelming socially with 599 kids per grade on each floor.

We are going to however try to get ours back in public for HS.

A lot depends on your kids. ACPS is not a strong public system in total, but Alex is a really great place to be. We would never want to live in Arl or Falls Church or Fairfax. We are city folk. But I would say that by MS you’d be hard pressed to keep kids in public. I did A lOT of research into the various public elementary school systems around NOVA and if you are strictly concerned about academics, run away from Alex public schools. But if it’s more than just that you seek, elementary I think is good enough.

Thank you for this very balanced, kind and honest post & while I agree with much of it, I have to disagree with you about George Mason.

It's not a good school. Math instruction is particularly weak. Good teachers were run off by the previous principal.

Some current teachers are so obsessed with equity that they refuse to help students because that's "not equitable". When they asked a question, my child was told by their math teacher, "too bad. you must not have been paying attention. you'll have to figure it out."

The "grading" is wildly inconsistent since there isn't a standard (this may be more of a ACPS problem). No homework (that's inequitable too). Never saw a test or any classroom work after kinder. Our fourth grade homeroom teacher lied to me for months on an issue and the administration wouldn't provide any resolution. In fact, they didn't seem concerned at all or see an issue.

Friends with kids in other ACPS ES assure me that it isn't like that at their schools.

It's pretty telling that GM had the most departures over the last two years of any ES in ACPS.

I know test scores aren't the end all and be all but check out the proficiency numbers on the VA DOE website over the years, including pre-pandemic. The results are pretty awful.

These are such privileged white family complaints. You want to see what equity really looks like in ACPS? It’s all the white kids leaving for tag and all the brown and black kids staying behind.

Devil’s advocate: what are they supposed to do if the black and brown kids don’t get the CogAT scores to test into TAG?

Peer-reviewed research shows that CogAT scores, just like SOL and ACT and SAT scores, are deeply correlated to family SES. Add in the significant emphasis on teacher input for TAG selection, and it is patently obvious why the poor POC students don't get selected for TAG. There is no "test into" about being selected for TAG. (Secondary teacher)

Ok, but the vast majority of TAG kids tested in. How many kids are referred in regardless of test scores?

No, "tested in" is not an accurate description of how they ended up in TAG.

I can’t speak for all of ACPS, but in my experience, most of the kids in my child’s TAG group got in because of the CogAT scores. I know of one kid whose CogAT score was borderline cutoff who was referred in, and I know of some kids who were referred but didn’t get in. Testing in is by far the way most kids get into TAG.

How do you know this about other people’s kids?

Because I talked to the parents.

And the administrator told me the cut off for the score to get into TAG.

[Anonymous]

I don't disagree with ACPS's focus on trying to figure out how to make things more equitable. I do differ on what I perceive to be the approach.

Making the TAG identification and delivery model more equitable, while a nice goal, is not going to serve the majority of students. There are many more things that should be a priority in terms of equity.

I think the district has an admirable goal of trying to figure out how to increase the graduation rate for Hispanic male students. It would be nice for the public to be provided actual graduation rate breakdowns by gender so we can see whether progress is really being made or if this is merely some aspirational goal that is not measured. But this is the only discernible concrete goal I have seen come out of the Equity for All initiative. I would also hope that the district begins to focus on remedying the achievement gaps that exist in many schools - including the glaring gaos at the middle schools and some of the East End elementary schools.

The West End elementary schools actually have a more even distribution when you look at VDOE data but it seems that the district figures that if families at a school are not complaining about the achievement gaps, there is no need to address it. (Unfortunately, the principals and staff at the schools may clamor all they want but they need advocacy and support from families.)

As it relates to TAG, this is a link to the state's regulation on the matter:

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title8/agency20/chapter40/section40/

My read is that a nationally norm-referenced aptitude or achievement test must be included as a measure in identifying students for GIA services and for subject-specific academic services. But the regulation also refers to a larger list of measures that can be used to help determine a student's eligibility for services.

My guess is that the thinking behind moving toward a push-in delivery model is that by providing services to all students who need more academic challenges, regardless of identification or eligibility, will better prepare students to score better on the NNAT, CogAT or whatever aptitude test the district chooses to use to comply with state law. My guess is that the thinking behind moving toward an identification process that is on a continuum and uses more than three measures to determine a student's eligibility for services will lead to identifying more students from underrepresented groups. As with anything, the district needs to provide the public with data on its progress on this and any of its initiatives so that ACPS families actually know how to hold them to account. Families should not need to FOIA the information just to find out what progress is being made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't disagree with ACPS's focus on trying to figure out how to make things more equitable. I do differ on what I perceive to be the approach.

Making the TAG identification and delivery model more equitable, while a nice goal, is not going to serve the majority of students. There are many more things that should be a priority in terms of equity.

I think the district has an admirable goal of trying to figure out how to increase the graduation rate for Hispanic male students. It would be nice for the public to be provided actual graduation rate breakdowns by gender so we can see whether progress is really being made or if this is merely some aspirational goal that is not measured. But this is the only discernible concrete goal I have seen come out of the Equity for All initiative. I would also hope that the district begins to focus on remedying the achievement gaps that exist in many schools - including the glaring gaos at the middle schools and some of the East End elementary schools.

The West End elementary schools actually have a more even distribution when you look at VDOE data but it seems that the district figures that if families at a school are not complaining about the achievement gaps, there is no need to address it. (Unfortunately, the principals and staff at the schools may clamor all they want but they need advocacy and support from families.)

As it relates to TAG, this is a link to the state's regulation on the matter:

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title8/agency20/chapter40/section40/

My read is that a nationally norm-referenced aptitude or achievement test must be included as a measure in identifying students for GIA services and for subject-specific academic services. But the regulation also refers to a larger list of measures that can be used to help determine a student's eligibility for services.

My guess is that the thinking behind moving toward a push-in delivery model is that by providing services to all students who need more academic challenges, regardless of identification or eligibility, will better prepare students to score better on the NNAT, CogAT or whatever aptitude test the district chooses to use to comply with state law. My guess is that the thinking behind moving toward an identification process that is on a continuum and uses more than three measures to determine a student's eligibility for services will lead to identifying more students from underrepresented groups. As with anything, the district needs to provide the public with data on its progress on this and any of its initiatives so that ACPS families actually know how to hold them to account. Families should not need to FOIA the information just to find out what progress is being made.

Six years ago a representative from central office spoke to our PTA about TAG and how it wasn't racially diverse. When I agreed and asked what ACPS' plan was to correct this, the ACPS staffer said they had "a plan". Looks like either they didn't have a plan or the plan didn't work. It really doesn't matter anymore since it's clear that TAG will be phased out in the next year or two.

Central Office is HUGE and growing and, last time I looked ACPS was spending 16K a year per pupil. Why can't they get it together when the district is so small? They have ample resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't disagree with ACPS's focus on trying to figure out how to make things more equitable. I do differ on what I perceive to be the approach.

Making the TAG identification and delivery model more equitable, while a nice goal, is not going to serve the majority of students. There are many more things that should be a priority in terms of equity.

I think the district has an admirable goal of trying to figure out how to increase the graduation rate for Hispanic male students. It would be nice for the public to be provided actual graduation rate breakdowns by gender so we can see whether progress is really being made or if this is merely some aspirational goal that is not measured. But this is the only discernible concrete goal I have seen come out of the Equity for All initiative. I would also hope that the district begins to focus on remedying the achievement gaps that exist in many schools - including the glaring gaos at the middle schools and some of the East End elementary schools.

The West End elementary schools actually have a more even distribution when you look at VDOE data but it seems that the district figures that if families at a school are not complaining about the achievement gaps, there is no need to address it. (Unfortunately, the principals and staff at the schools may clamor all they want but they need advocacy and support from families.)

As it relates to TAG, this is a link to the state's regulation on the matter:

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title8/agency20/chapter40/section40/

My read is that a nationally norm-referenced aptitude or achievement test must be included as a measure in identifying students for GIA services and for subject-specific academic services. But the regulation also refers to a larger list of measures that can be used to help determine a student's eligibility for services.

My guess is that the thinking behind moving toward a push-in delivery model is that by providing services to all students who need more academic challenges, regardless of identification or eligibility, will better prepare students to score better on the NNAT, CogAT or whatever aptitude test the district chooses to use to comply with state law. My guess is that the thinking behind moving toward an identification process that is on a continuum and uses more than three measures to determine a student's eligibility for services will lead to identifying more students from underrepresented groups. As with anything, the district needs to provide the public with data on its progress on this and any of its initiatives so that ACPS families actually know how to hold them to account. Families should not need to FOIA the information just to find out what progress is being made.

Six years ago a representative from central office spoke to our PTA about TAG and how it wasn't racially diverse. When I agreed and asked what ACPS' plan was to correct this, the ACPS staffer said they had "a plan". Looks like either they didn't have a plan or the plan didn't work. It really doesn't matter anymore since it's clear that TAG will be phased out in the next year or two.

Central Office is HUGE and growing and, last time I looked ACPS was spending 16K a year per pupil. Why can't they get it together when the district is so small? They have ample resources.

I must have been at the same meeting bc I was going to post similar.

Yes, they have been planning to revamp the TAG process even before that. My child is graduating high school and they had plans back when she was in K.

Also when she was in K, they were discussing the need for another high school and you can see how that worked out

So if you are a current parent, please, please, please don't fall into the trap of believing that changes will happen by the time your child reaches x grade because it is 5 years away, 10 years away, 15 years away. It could literally take 25 years or more for a change to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't disagree with ACPS's focus on trying to figure out how to make things more equitable. I do differ on what I perceive to be the approach.

Making the TAG identification and delivery model more equitable, while a nice goal, is not going to serve the majority of students. There are many more things that should be a priority in terms of equity.

I think the district has an admirable goal of trying to figure out how to increase the graduation rate for Hispanic male students. It would be nice for the public to be provided actual graduation rate breakdowns by gender so we can see whether progress is really being made or if this is merely some aspirational goal that is not measured. But this is the only discernible concrete goal I have seen come out of the Equity for All initiative. I would also hope that the district begins to focus on remedying the achievement gaps that exist in many schools - including the glaring gaos at the middle schools and some of the East End elementary schools.

The West End elementary schools actually have a more even distribution when you look at VDOE data but it seems that the district figures that if families at a school are not complaining about the achievement gaps, there is no need to address it. (Unfortunately, the principals and staff at the schools may clamor all they want but they need advocacy and support from families.)

As it relates to TAG, this is a link to the state's regulation on the matter:

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title8/agency20/chapter40/section40/

My read is that a nationally norm-referenced aptitude or achievement test must be included as a measure in identifying students for GIA services and for subject-specific academic services. But the regulation also refers to a larger list of measures that can be used to help determine a student's eligibility for services.

My guess is that the thinking behind moving toward a push-in delivery model is that by providing services to all students who need more academic challenges, regardless of identification or eligibility, will better prepare students to score better on the NNAT, CogAT or whatever aptitude test the district chooses to use to comply with state law. My guess is that the thinking behind moving toward an identification process that is on a continuum and uses more than three measures to determine a student's eligibility for services will lead to identifying more students from underrepresented groups. As with anything, the district needs to provide the public with data on its progress on this and any of its initiatives so that ACPS families actually know how to hold them to account. Families should not need to FOIA the information just to find out what progress is being made.

Six years ago a representative from central office spoke to our PTA about TAG and how it wasn't racially diverse. When I agreed and asked what ACPS' plan was to correct this, the ACPS staffer said they had "a plan". Looks like either they didn't have a plan or the plan didn't work. It really doesn't matter anymore since it's clear that TAG will be phased out in the next year or two.

Central Office is HUGE and growing and, last time I looked ACPS was spending 16K a year per pupil. Why can't they get it together when the district is so small? They have ample resources.

I must have been at the same meeting bc I was going to post similar.

Yes, they have been planning to revamp the TAG process even before that. My child is graduating high school and they had plans back when she was in K.

Also when she was in K, they were discussing the need for another high school and you can see how that worked out

So if you are a current parent, please, please, please don't fall into the trap of believing that changes will happen by the time your child reaches x grade because it is 5 years away, 10 years away, 15 years away. It could literally take 25 years or more for a change to happen.

This is so true!