Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.

[Anonymous]

I've really wanted to get some advice here but I also don't want to start a war because I know this topic can be derisive. I just don't know who to talk to without the situation getting worse.

I attended parochial (catholic) school for my entire education. I have a close friend who I went all through school with. I'm a devout catholic as is she but she is very vocal about it. For less confusion let me call her Marie. So Marie was really fired up because a friend "Tonya" from school posted on facebook about an abortion she had when she was in high school. I already knew about this because I was kind of involved.

This was back in 1988. Tonya did some lying to get the abortion because back then you couldn't at 15. The person posing as her guardian left her at a McDonalds after the fact so she called me and asked for a ride. When I picked her up she started crying and told me everything. I also knew (because we were close and she had confided in me) that her father had been molesting her. She didn't come right out and say it but she didn't have to I figured he must have been the one to get her pregnant. Needless to say Tonya had a rough life. For example when we walked in she was clearly weak and not feeling well and her mother walked right up to her and slapped her across the face for being late for dinner. They were very poor and she was picked on for it at our elite all girls school. (Her mother worked there).

I kept Tonya's secret but I had guilt. I went to my confessor (priest). He was so kind and told me that I had helped a friend who needed me he encouraged me to help Tonya come forward about the abuse she was suffering and to support her through it. I still felt lying was wrong and that Tonya was dishonoring her mother by lying to her. The abortion I felt was just because it was what I believed to be incest. Anyway, sorry for the long background.

I told Marie that I already knew. (Yea I wasn't thinking, it just slipped out) She wanted to know why I hadn't told her I just told her about giving her a ride home. I would never tell anyone about who I believe the father to be. That is Tonya's business. She never went to anyone about her father as far as I know. Marie has been going on about how both Tonya and I are going to hell. How my convictions are only as strong as my actions. How I was complicit after the fact in murdering a baby.

I know its over the top but she is very very prolife and she is very passionate about it. I can understand it, I am prolife as well but I know its not all black and white. Medical issues, incest, rape, underage etc. I also think that if you aren't Catholic it doesn't apply to you. Not everyone has the same religious views. And finally its not my business if someone has one. Marie would hear none of it and now wants nothing to do with me or my family. We've been friends since we were 5, thats 38 years! Our children are friends.

I know a lot of people will say "Why would you want to be friends with her." Well I do. She has many good qualities and we've been through a lot together. So help me talk to her. How do I approach her and get her to speak rationally with me about it. Is it even possible when religion is involved.

BTW I reached out to Tonya and she is doing good. She became a social worker. She has 3 children. She just got married to the "love of her life" who is a police officer. I love his profession because I bet it makes her feel safe. She also told me her father had died 11 years ago, so I was glad to hear he was out of her life.

[Anonymous]

You do know that you aren't actually pro-life, right? It sounds like you are anti-abortion but that you don't think it should be illegal, since you recognize that there are times that abortion is justified (for non Catholics is a huge exception!)

So you can tell your friend that while you don't think abortion could be the right choice for you, Tonya thought it was the right choice for her, and you support her right to make the choice herself.

[Anonymous]

I have no idea why you would still want to be friends with this judgmental woman, but my only suggestion is that you write her a letter---explain how much you care about her, state that you are sorry she currently feels the way she does but that there is a lot about the past situation that she does not understand and it is not your place to tell her. Then I would close by citing Matthew 7:1-3. And then leave her alone---while you pray that God helps her to overcome her self-righteousness and cruelty.

And then I would take Tonya to lunch. I bet she'd be a much better friend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've really wanted to get some advice here but I also don't want to start a war because I know this topic can be derisive. I just don't know who to talk to without the situation getting worse.

I attended parochial (catholic) school for my entire education. I have a close friend who I went all through school with. I'm a devout catholic as is she but she is very vocal about it. For less confusion let me call her Marie. So Marie was really fired up because a friend "Tonya" from school posted on facebook about an abortion she had when she was in high school. I already knew about this because I was kind of involved.

This was back in 1988. Tonya did some lying to get the abortion because back then you couldn't at 15. The person posing as her guardian left her at a McDonalds after the fact so she called me and asked for a ride. When I picked her up she started crying and told me everything. I also knew (because we were close and she had confided in me) that her father had been molesting her. She didn't come right out and say it but she didn't have to I figured he must have been the one to get her pregnant. Needless to say Tonya had a rough life. For example when we walked in she was clearly weak and not feeling well and her mother walked right up to her and slapped her across the face for being late for dinner. They were very poor and she was picked on for it at our elite all girls school. (Her mother worked there).

I kept Tonya's secret but I had guilt. I went to my confessor (priest). He was so kind and told me that I had helped a friend who needed me he encouraged me to help Tonya come forward about the abuse she was suffering and to support her through it. I still felt lying was wrong and that Tonya was dishonoring her mother by lying to her. The abortion I felt was just because it was what I believed to be incest. Anyway, sorry for the long background.

I told Marie that I already knew. (Yea I wasn't thinking, it just slipped out) She wanted to know why I hadn't told her I just told her about giving her a ride home. I would never tell anyone about who I believe the father to be. That is Tonya's business. She never went to anyone about her father as far as I know. Marie has been going on about how both Tonya and I are going to hell. How my convictions are only as strong as my actions. How I was complicit after the fact in murdering a baby.

I know its over the top but she is very very prolife and she is very passionate about it. I can understand it, I am prolife as well but I know its not all black and white. Medical issues, incest, rape, underage etc. I also think that if you aren't Catholic it doesn't apply to you. Not everyone has the same religious views. And finally its not my business if someone has one. Marie would hear none of it and now wants nothing to do with me or my family. We've been friends since we were 5, thats 38 years! Our children are friends.

I know a lot of people will say "Why would you want to be friends with her." Well I do. She has many good qualities and we've been through a lot together. So help me talk to her. How do I approach her and get her to speak rationally with me about it. Is it even possible when religion is involved.

BTW I reached out to Tonya and she is doing good. She became a social worker. She has 3 children. She just got married to the "love of her life" who is a police officer. I love his profession because I bet it makes her feel safe. She also told me her father had died 11 years ago, so I was glad to hear he was out of her life.

What does this even mean?

[Anonymous]

Maybe you could both see a priest together?

Since I firmly believe in a woman's right to choose, I can't relate to Marie. But I understand it's very hard to lose such a long-lasting friendship, one with links to your early childhood.

Wishing you strength.

[Anonymous]

21:11 again - I also wanted to say you're not alone. My good friends aborted a severely trisomic fetus - one that had no chance of life - and they had to leave their church and lost many friends because of their decision.

[Anonymous]

I feel for you OP. You did the right thing by helping someone in need, it's so sad your highly religious friend doesn't see that and can't find any empathy in the situation.

My best advice would be to write her a heartfelt letter about how you know in your heart you did the right thing, that you were counseled on this situation with your priest and that the only one that should be judging your action is God. Go on to tell her how much you care about her and your friendship and that its her choice to throw away this friendship but that you really hope she can find enough love and acceptance in her heart to not do so.

Ultimately if she ends the friendship over this, you should briefly mourn it as a loss but move on because it would be toxic to keep pursuing it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You do know that you aren't actually pro-life, right? It sounds like you are anti-abortion but that you don't think it should be illegal, since you recognize that there are times that abortion is justified (for non Catholics is a huge exception!)

So you can tell your friend that while you don't think abortion could be the right choice for you, Tonya thought it was the right choice for her, and you support her right to make the choice herself.

I think this pp means pro-choice.

Anyway, OP, some pro-life people are just absolutely nuts. I'm sorry, I'm a Christian, but that is what this behavior is- nuts. Give crazy lady some space and let her calm down, then re-connect.

[Anonymous]

Religious issues aside...this woman is judging you for something you did when you were 15 or 16. She's nuts. I'm sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You do know that you aren't actually pro-life, right? It sounds like you are anti-abortion but that you don't think it should be illegal, since you recognize that there are times that abortion is justified (for non Catholics is a huge exception!)

So you can tell your friend that while you don't think abortion could be the right choice for you, Tonya thought it was the right choice for her, and you support her right to make the choice herself.

Thank you for the advice. I've tried that approach and while Marie gets that she feels I'm a horrible person for giving her a ride. She says I should have left her at McDonalds and not been implicit in keeping her secret. So I don't know what to do. Maybe she needs to cool way down before I approach her again.

I am actually prolife though. I think it should be illegal with exceptions. I also believe that I can't push my religion on anyone else so if someone is a non Catholic they have their beliefs and I have my own. Its hard to explain but I feel like sin is sin. Sin is all offensive to God no matter what it is or how we as humans categorize it.

I am not going to judge an individual for making a choice. I judge a society and government that allows its. If that makes sense.

[Anonymous]

I have never heard any Catholic argue that abortion is ok if you aren't Catholic. That's an odd position.

I'm Catholic and prolife. I've had friends and family members who have had abortions for a variety of reasons ranging from being teens to feeling unable to parent due to money issues or not having a spouse. I deeply wish they'd made a different choice, but I'm not angry with them. I pray for their babies' eternal rest and for them that they have peace and happiness. A few years ago, I kept a cousin's kids for three days at her request, not knowing that she had gone for an abortion. When I found out later, I felt like I'd been sucked into being complicit in in. My priest said I wasn't responsible even if I had known and decided to keep the kids anyway. He said that I made sure that her kids had a safe, loving place during the days when their mother was unavailable to them whatever her reason. The alternative was that they might have been left to fend for themselves. You took care of your friend when she needed someone. That's not a bad thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea why you would still want to be friends with this judgmental woman, but my only suggestion is that you write her a letter---explain how much you care about her, state that you are sorry she currently feels the way she does but that there is a lot about the past situation that she does not understand and it is not your place to tell her. Then I would close by citing Matthew 7:1-3. And then leave her alone---while you pray that God helps her to overcome her self-righteousness and cruelty.

And then I would take Tonya to lunch. I bet she'd be a much better friend.

Thank you for the advice a letter is a good idea. She gets so heated and I just kind of clam up. I don't want to fight with her because I understand her point of view and I care about her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think that if you aren't Catholic it doesn't apply to you.

What does this even mean?

I am sorry for not being clear. I just meant that in Catholicism abortion is a sin but that isn't true in all religions and not everyone is religious. So I cannot foist my beliefs on another person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe you could both see a priest together?

Since I firmly believe in a woman's right to choose, I can't relate to Marie. But I understand it's very hard to lose such a long-lasting friendship, one with links to your early childhood.

Wishing you strength.

Thank you. I am overwhelmed with all the support here. I was really worried about posting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do know that you aren't actually pro-life, right? It sounds like you are anti-abortion but that you don't think it should be illegal, since you recognize that there are times that abortion is justified (for non Catholics is a huge exception!)

So you can tell your friend that while you don't think abortion could be the right choice for you, Tonya thought it was the right choice for her, and you support her right to make the choice herself.

Thank you for the advice. I've tried that approach and while Marie gets that she feels I'm a horrible person for giving her a ride. She says I should have left her at McDonalds and not been implicit in keeping her secret. So I don't know what to do. Maybe she needs to cool way down before I approach her again.

I am actually prolife though. I think it should be illegal with exceptions. I also believe that I can't push my religion on anyone else so if someone is a non Catholic they have their beliefs and I have my own. Its hard to explain but I feel like sin is sin. Sin is all offensive to God no matter what it is or how we as humans categorize it.

I am not going to judge an individual for making a choice. I judge a society and government that allows its. If that makes sense.

So if you don't think you can push your religion on other people, why would you think that abortion should be illegal for all? Isn't that the very definition of pushing your beliefs on other people?