Study: "Discussions of D.C. public school options in an online forum" (yes, this one)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best thing about the anonymity of this board is that it allows the rich white prestige-obsessed and guilt-driven parents (who work too hard to be good parents) of the DMV to express their true feelings without fear of being outcast. They talk the talk in public, but this forum shows that in private they don't walk the walk.

I think it shows that everybody is just doing the best they can, and that some people vastly overestimate the time, money, energy, and clout that posters here have.

Without a doubt, stereotyping and judging others is rampant here.

Especially the kind of stereotyping and judging PP did.

Only in DC is a parent called a racist for sending their child to a school that is 39% white.

It absolutely is not that simple. If Wilson were as black as the other DC high schools, virtually no parent on DCUM would send their kids there. Banneker is the prime example. DCUM parents send their kids to Wilson because it has "enough" white students for them to feel comfortable. Clearly, they're making a race-conscious decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best thing about the anonymity of this board is that it allows the rich white prestige-obsessed and guilt-driven parents (who work too hard to be good parents) of the DMV to express their true feelings without fear of being outcast. They talk the talk in public, but this forum shows that in private they don't walk the walk.

Boring. What walk is it that is the correct one? As identified above, there's nothing we can do beyond be comfortable and silent about kids getting subpar education.

There's a lot I could say in response to this, but . . . I won't.

[Anonymous]

The main thing this thread has proved is that young, liberal women with no kids never ever *ever* get tired of accusing other white people of being racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best thing about the anonymity of this board is that it allows the rich white prestige-obsessed and guilt-driven parents (who work too hard to be good parents) of the DMV to express their true feelings without fear of being outcast. They talk the talk in public, but this forum shows that in private they don't walk the walk.

I think it shows that everybody is just doing the best they can, and that some people vastly overestimate the time, money, energy, and clout that posters here have.

Without a doubt, stereotyping and judging others is rampant here.

Especially the kind of stereotyping and judging PP did.

Only in DC is a parent called a racist for sending their child to a school that is 39% white.

It absolutely is not that simple. If Wilson were as black as the other DC high schools, virtually no parent on DCUM would send their kids there. Banneker is the prime example. DCUM parents send their kids to Wilson because it has "enough" white students for them to feel comfortable. Clearly, they're making a race-conscious decision.

I think that's fine.

Unfortunately, that's not good enough for people like the author of this study. It's not ok to seek diversity in an acceptable amount - only going to Banneker (apparently, the holy grail and litmus test of all things segregation) will be enough for a white parent.

I actually think wanting a few kids of the same race as your kid is fine. I don't know why that's a problem or racist. It's still the case that the schools being chosen are quite diverse overall. There are very few schools which are around 10-15% white, say. They are either 2 or 3 or 0% white, or 30% and up. That's perhaps problematic, but I don't think you have the gotcha you think you do. Some level of same-group seeking is, to me, totally understandable and basically fine, so long as it's not the whole picture. Which it's not, because such decisions are complex.

For me: were there a progressive non-traditional educational model school which was under 5% white, I would definitely still consider it (Truth, or Bard perhaps). Not Banneker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The main thing this thread has proved is that young, liberal women with no kids never ever *ever* get tired of accusing other white people of being racist.

Probably because after having kids many white women become very race-conscious when it comes to educating them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main thing this thread has proved is that young, liberal women with no kids never ever *ever* get tired of accusing other white people of being racist.

Probably because after having kids many white women become very race-conscious when it comes to educating them.

ha! tell me you dont have kids without telling me you dont have kids!

[Anonymous]

this has to be one of the silliest threads ive ever read on dcum (and that bar is low)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best thing about the anonymity of this board is that it allows the rich white prestige-obsessed and guilt-driven parents (who work too hard to be good parents) of the DMV to express their true feelings without fear of being outcast. They talk the talk in public, but this forum shows that in private they don't walk the walk.

I think it shows that everybody is just doing the best they can, and that some people vastly overestimate the time, money, energy, and clout that posters here have.

Without a doubt, stereotyping and judging others is rampant here.

Especially the kind of stereotyping and judging PP did.

Only in DC is a parent called a racist for sending their child to a school that is 39% white.

It absolutely is not that simple. If Wilson were as black as the other DC high schools, virtually no parent on DCUM would send their kids there. Banneker is the prime example. DCUM parents send their kids to Wilson because it has "enough" white students for them to feel comfortable. Clearly, they're making a race-conscious decision.

I think that's fine.

Unfortunately, that's not good enough for people like the author of this study. It's not ok to seek diversity in an acceptable amount - only going to Banneker (apparently, the holy grail and litmus test of all things segregation) will be enough for a white parent.

I actually think wanting a few kids of the same race as your kid is fine. I don't know why that's a problem or racist. It's still the case that the schools being chosen are quite diverse overall. There are very few schools which are around 10-15% white, say. They are either 2 or 3 or 0% white, or 30% and up. That's perhaps problematic, but I don't think you have the gotcha you think you do. Some level of same-group seeking is, to me, totally understandable and basically fine, so long as it's not the whole picture. Which it's not, because such decisions are complex.

For me: were there a progressive non-traditional educational model school which was under 5% white, I would definitely still consider it (Truth, or Bard perhaps). Not Banneker.

Except you're playing word games. DCUM parents are choosing the schools that they do not for their "diversity" but because they have enough white students in them. For DCUM parents its either these school, or private schools. Race absolutely is a major factor. It's painfully obvious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Nice White Parents podcast is helpful on paradigm setting.

Yes, go to your local schools.

No, don’t act like you are a “pioneer” or own or direct them just because you are part of the class with money, ability to donate or fundraise, etc.

Act like you’re joining a group project that needs effort but NOT a new boss! Be helpful not screamy. Don’t show up and then try to create a new magic cohort for your child on day 2. Join, reach out, etc.

Here's my issue with this:

In DC, your "local" school might be Garrison or Deal or Ludlow-Taylor or another well-regarded DCPS. Going to a school like that and not getting a white savior complex is honestly pretty easy.

But if your IB is a genuinely struggling DCPS, it is much, much harder said than done. If you go to a school with high truancy rates, broken facilities, and a completely unfunded PTA, how do you navigate this as a "nice white parent" who both doesn't want special treatment for your kid but does want a baseline level of quality in your kids education. You aren't advocating for a brand new bilingual program or a G&T program that is really just a way to self-segregate the white kids or whatever. But can you advocate for anything without being seen as a "pioneer"? Is your job to accept the quality of your local school even if it impacts your kid? Even if no one in your kid's class reads at grade level?

So many of the people I know who say "Just got to your local school and don't play white savior" go to schools that are already heavily gentrified. Do you really know what it's like to send your kid to a truly struggling DCPS? I'm talking about the schools that can't even fill their classes with IB parents because so many local parents (of every race) simply lottery out. Do you actually know what that looks like?

I don't think you do, or you wouldn't talk about this like it's easy. It's not. It sucks. You are simply rich enough to live IB for a good school. Sure, your school might be diverse and might have a sizable at-risk population. That is very different than being at a school where 90%+ are at-risk. You have no idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best thing about the anonymity of this board is that it allows the rich white prestige-obsessed and guilt-driven parents (who work too hard to be good parents) of the DMV to express their true feelings without fear of being outcast. They talk the talk in public, but this forum shows that in private they don't walk the walk.

I think it shows that everybody is just doing the best they can, and that some people vastly overestimate the time, money, energy, and clout that posters here have.

Without a doubt, stereotyping and judging others is rampant here.

Especially the kind of stereotyping and judging PP did.

Only in DC is a parent called a racist for sending their child to a school that is 39% white.

It absolutely is not that simple. If Wilson were as black as the other DC high schools, virtually no parent on DCUM would send their kids there. Banneker is the prime example. DCUM parents send their kids to Wilson because it has "enough" white students for them to feel comfortable. Clearly, they're making a race-conscious decision.

I think that's fine.

Unfortunately, that's not good enough for people like the author of this study. It's not ok to seek diversity in an acceptable amount - only going to Banneker (apparently, the holy grail and litmus test of all things segregation) will be enough for a white parent.

I actually think wanting a few kids of the same race as your kid is fine. I don't know why that's a problem or racist. It's still the case that the schools being chosen are quite diverse overall. There are very few schools which are around 10-15% white, say. They are either 2 or 3 or 0% white, or 30% and up. That's perhaps problematic, but I don't think you have the gotcha you think you do. Some level of same-group seeking is, to me, totally understandable and basically fine, so long as it's not the whole picture. Which it's not, because such decisions are complex.

For me: were there a progressive non-traditional educational model school which was under 5% white, I would definitely still consider it (Truth, or Bard perhaps). Not Banneker.

Except you're playing word games. DCUM parents are choosing the schools that they do not for their "diversity" but because they have enough white students in them. For DCUM parents its either these school, or private schools. Race absolutely is a major factor. It's painfully obvious.

There's actually zero evidence that any of this is true. This is just what you fervently want to believe, and we get that. You really, really, really want to call people racist. But if you have any actual evidence for your claims, show us the goods or shut up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Nice White Parents podcast is helpful on paradigm setting.

Yes, go to your local schools.

No, don’t act like you are a “pioneer” or own or direct them just because you are part of the class with money, ability to donate or fundraise, etc.

Act like you’re joining a group project that needs effort but NOT a new boss! Be helpful not screamy. Don’t show up and then try to create a new magic cohort for your child on day 2. Join, reach out, etc.

Here's my issue with this:

In DC, your "local" school might be Garrison or Deal or Ludlow-Taylor or another well-regarded DCPS. Going to a school like that and not getting a white savior complex is honestly pretty easy.

But if your IB is a genuinely struggling DCPS, it is much, much harder said than done. If you go to a school with high truancy rates, broken facilities, and a completely unfunded PTA, how do you navigate this as a "nice white parent" who both doesn't want special treatment for your kid but does want a baseline level of quality in your kids education. You aren't advocating for a brand new bilingual program or a G&T program that is really just a way to self-segregate the white kids or whatever. But can you advocate for anything without being seen as a "pioneer"? Is your job to accept the quality of your local school even if it impacts your kid? Even if no one in your kid's class reads at grade level?

So many of the people I know who say "Just got to your local school and don't play white savior" go to schools that are already heavily gentrified. Do you really know what it's like to send your kid to a truly struggling DCPS? I'm talking about the schools that can't even fill their classes with IB parents because so many local parents (of every race) simply lottery out. Do you actually know what that looks like?

I don't think you do, or you wouldn't talk about this like it's easy. It's not. It sucks. You are simply rich enough to live IB for a good school. Sure, your school might be diverse and might have a sizable at-risk population. That is very different than being at a school where 90%+ are at-risk. You have no idea.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Nice White Parents podcast is helpful on paradigm setting.

Yes, go to your local schools.

No, don’t act like you are a “pioneer” or own or direct them just because you are part of the class with money, ability to donate or fundraise, etc.

Act like you’re joining a group project that needs effort but NOT a new boss! Be helpful not screamy. Don’t show up and then try to create a new magic cohort for your child on day 2. Join, reach out, etc.

Here's my issue with this:

In DC, your "local" school might be Garrison or Deal or Ludlow-Taylor or another well-regarded DCPS. Going to a school like that and not getting a white savior complex is honestly pretty easy.

But if your IB is a genuinely struggling DCPS, it is much, much harder said than done. If you go to a school with high truancy rates, broken facilities, and a completely unfunded PTA, how do you navigate this as a "nice white parent" who both doesn't want special treatment for your kid but does want a baseline level of quality in your kids education. You aren't advocating for a brand new bilingual program or a G&T program that is really just a way to self-segregate the white kids or whatever. But can you advocate for anything without being seen as a "pioneer"? Is your job to accept the quality of your local school even if it impacts your kid? Even if no one in your kid's class reads at grade level?

So many of the people I know who say "Just got to your local school and don't play white savior" go to schools that are already heavily gentrified. Do you really know what it's like to send your kid to a truly struggling DCPS? I'm talking about the schools that can't even fill their classes with IB parents because so many local parents (of every race) simply lottery out. Do you actually know what that looks like?

I don't think you do, or you wouldn't talk about this like it's easy. It's not. It sucks. You are simply rich enough to live IB for a good school. Sure, your school might be diverse and might have a sizable at-risk population. That is very different than being at a school where 90%+ are at-risk. You have no idea.

The other problem I have with this is that the whole theory for why integration improves educational quality is precisely because affluent parents can advocate to improve, and in DC at least, can actually directly fund improvements at schools. It seems frankly insane to argue that the only way to be is to enroll in a poorly performing school, and then do nothing to help it? Plus, the advocacy is with the school administration and DCPS - which is a system we're all part of; there's nothing pioneering about it. This kind of advocacy benefits everybody as long as parents are minimally attentive to the needs of the school as a whole. Sure there are examples of PTAs doing eye-rolling stuff (like fixating on after school snacks) but overall the DC PTAs do things like fund teachers' aides, which benefits everyone. I think I remember hearing that at Brent the PTA funded a behavioral tech, which can be a HUGE huge benefit to the whole school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best thing about the anonymity of this board is that it allows the rich white prestige-obsessed and guilt-driven parents (who work too hard to be good parents) of the DMV to express their true feelings without fear of being outcast. They talk the talk in public, but this forum shows that in private they don't walk the walk.

I think it shows that everybody is just doing the best they can, and that some people vastly overestimate the time, money, energy, and clout that posters here have.

Without a doubt, stereotyping and judging others is rampant here.

Especially the kind of stereotyping and judging PP did.

Only in DC is a parent called a racist for sending their child to a school that is 39% white.

It absolutely is not that simple. If Wilson were as black as the other DC high schools, virtually no parent on DCUM would send their kids there. Banneker is the prime example. DCUM parents send their kids to Wilson because it has "enough" white students for them to feel comfortable. Clearly, they're making a race-conscious decision.

Banneker is an *application school.* Unless you think all DCUM kids would magically get in, that's not a valid comparison. I think the lack of information about Banneker is actually a bigger issue than race. Banneker doesn't seem that interested in doing outreach or diversifying, so that's not really a way to learn about them. DCUM does sometimes have good information about Banneker -- there's a Banneker grad that posted some really great information here about his experience. What we do hear about Banneker frankly makes it seem like not a good match for a lot of kids (especially boys) of any race. I do have a colleague who sends their child there, and while it's clear it's a great place, honestly the homework load and expectations seem like something my kid could not manage. I feel the same way about Basis, FWIW. OTOH, Duke Ellington might be a match. I think Ellington is probably a better example, since the Ellington model of education is likely to be a better fit for a lot of DCUM types. Remember, we're in DC proper for a reason - we're not in Fairfax sweating our kids to get into AAP at 7 years old. The real racism wrt Banneker comes when a few miscreant DCUM posters try to slag its successes and claim it's not a good school, and that somehow the median SAT scores means that their snowflake could not get a good education there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Nice White Parents podcast is helpful on paradigm setting.

Yes, go to your local schools.

No, don’t act like you are a “pioneer” or own or direct them just because you are part of the class with money, ability to donate or fundraise, etc.

Act like you’re joining a group project that needs effort but NOT a new boss! Be helpful not screamy. Don’t show up and then try to create a new magic cohort for your child on day 2. Join, reach out, etc.

This!!! This all day with schools, with work, with any place that is new to you.

Do you mean like the parent at my kids school who tried to manipulate the budget by offering to write a bigger check to the PTA if we hired a STEM teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Nice White Parents podcast is helpful on paradigm setting.

Yes, go to your local schools.

No, don’t act like you are a “pioneer” or own or direct them just because you are part of the class with money, ability to donate or fundraise, etc.

Act like you’re joining a group project that needs effort but NOT a new boss! Be helpful not screamy. Don’t show up and then try to create a new magic cohort for your child on day 2. Join, reach out, etc.

This!!! This all day with schools, with work, with any place that is new to you.

Do you mean like the parent at my kids school who tried to manipulate the budget by offering to write a bigger check to the PTA if we hired a STEM teacher?

This kind of stuff will happen. It's a PTA governance issue. Hopefully the PTA has an open and transparent budget-setting process where that kind of backroom agreement can't be made. Even if it happens sometimes, on balance, what's worse - no PTA support, or a PTA that sometimes is a conduit for special projects? Plus STEM is good no?