Are all centers chaotic to some extent?

[Anonymous]

DS has been in a lovely home daycare for the past 2 years. Love the providers, love the coziness, love the attention he gets (8 children and 2 adults, all kids between 1-3 years old). For a host of reasons though, we are potentially looking to switch him to a center/preschool + before and after.

We toured 2 centers this week. Granted, we were there at 3:30/4:00, so it was the end of the day, but OMG it was chaos at both. 24 kids in a room with a teacher and 2 assistants. Lots of screaming/squealing, running around inside, etc. I was so overwhelmed after 2 minutes that I asked to leave and talk outside.

Is this normal? Do I just need to expect that afternoons are always crazy at centers? DS was overwhelmed too (but that's to be expected--he's super sensitive and introverted which is why we chose a home daycare to start). Do all the kids just get used to it?

I'm sure I sound naive, but man...I would need earplugs to be in those rooms longer than 10 minutes.

[Anonymous]

That doesn't sound normal to me.

Did you see their daily schedules? Unless that time frame was some kind of free play, it shouldn't be that crazy. And even then.

[Anonymous]

24 kids in a room with 3 adults? WTF?

Our kid is in a DC center. 8 kids and 3 adults. Seems relatively under control considering they're little impulsive snot boxes.

[Anonymous]

1:8 is an odd ratio - how old were the kids?

Chaos to a certain extent, esp at free play. But not noise or running around - I would expect the teachers to keep a lid on that.

We waited until my son was 3.5 to move him from his in-home in part because he doesn't do great with large crowds and noises, and no regrets. He transitioned well to the center, but the extra year (of his age) was great to help with that.

[Anonymous]

End of day is usually the loudest. Kids are up from naps, parents are coming in picking kids up, if it's too hot to go outside the kids (energy charged from naps) are inside playing. Sound can also be amplified by tile floors and the type of walls they have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That doesn't sound normal to me.

Did you see their daily schedules? Unless that time frame was some kind of free play, it shouldn't be that crazy. And even then.

Yes, daily schedule was provided. From 3:30-5:30 was free play inside. 5:30-6:30 the kids all gathered in the cafeteria to consolidate. Morning was more structured.

Anonymous wrote:24 kids in a room with 3 adults? WTF?

Our kid is in a DC center. 8 kids and 3 adults. Seems relatively under control considering they're little impulsive snot boxes.

Anonymous wrote:24 kids in a room with 3 adults? WTF?

Our kid is in a DC center. 8 kids and 3 adults. Seems relatively under control considering they're little impulsive snot boxes.

I thought the ratio seemed really high too. Glad it's not just me.

Anonymous wrote:1:8 is an odd ratio - how old were the kids?

Chaos to a certain extent, esp at free play. But not noise or running around - I would expect the teachers to keep a lid on that.

We waited until my son was 3.5 to move him from his in-home in part because he doesn't do great with large crowds and noises, and no regrets. He transitioned well to the center, but the extra year (of his age) was great to help with that.

Kids in the room "have turned 2 by September 30th". So they'll all be between 2-3. I think maybe that's the route we'll end up going. That would give us a whole lot more options too, as so many places start at 3.

Anonymous wrote:End of day is usually the loudest. Kids are up from naps, parents are coming in picking kids up, if it's too hot to go outside the kids (energy charged from naps) are inside playing. Sound can also be amplified by tile floors and the type of walls they have.

Yeah, as a teacher my 7th period is always 10x louder than my 1st period. End of day is hard! I just think it's potentially too much for my kiddo to handle at this point, being an only child who craves quiet, and having experience in a small home setting where he gets so much attention. I'm not sure I'm ready to trade attention for structure yet.

[Anonymous]

All preschool/centers have their chaotic times, yes. The end of the day can be tough, because some kids get upset when other classmates start to leave (they wonder why their mommy/daddy isn't there to get them and start to cry). Plus, by that time, everyone, especially the teachers/workers are tired

[Anonymous]

I would not be happy with that ratio and large class size. Keep looking.

[Anonymous]

Are they licensed and what state are they in?
States have different ratios for child care by age, DC is one of the lowest ratios, which is really nice.

They can have chaotic times.

[Anonymous]

At our center, end of the day is only slightly more chaotic than morning (and it really depends on what they're doing and how much outside time they've gotten that day).

24 kids in a room sounds crazy. My 2yo is in a room with 12 kids and 2 teachers (MD mandates a 1:6 ratio at that age). They have zero tolerance for running, rolling on the floor, rough housing, and yelling. There have been occasions when I've gone in at the end of the day when 3+ kids are sitting in their cubbies in time outs, but the room is definitely calm. (In those cases, usually, all 3 kids were involved in a single altercation, so they all got a time out).

The only time it gets more chaotic than I can handle is when the teachers decide to turn the music up and have a dance party. The kids love it, but it makes me want to run. I'm grateful that the teachers let them do it.

Ironically, I toured a home daycare recently, and it was WAY more chaotic than our center at the end of the day. (We're moving, so, sadly, back in the day care hunt.) There were only two providers for about 8-10 kids, and the kids were coming in and out through the front door, while one adult was inside and one outside. There was no front fence, and the house wasn't safety proofed. Somehow, this place was licensed. So, I would hesitate to draw broad conclusions about centers vs. home daycares; each one can be so different.

[Anonymous]

My DD was in a center at age 2 where there were 10 kids and 2 teachers and it was great. Then she switched to the 3 year old room, where there were 16 kids and 2 teachers and it was utter chaos. We ended up moving her.

It is hard for me to imagine 24 2 year olds in a room NOT being chaotic. That seems like a huge room for kids that age.

[Anonymous]

Sounds a lot like our center in DC. At the end of the day (and in the morning), they group classes together and let the kids run around. The center doesn't seem to think ratios apply at those times. The staff just sit around the perimeter sort of watching the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That doesn't sound normal to me.

Did you see their daily schedules? Unless that time frame was some kind of free play, it shouldn't be that crazy. And even then.

Yes, daily schedule was provided. From 3:30-5:30 was free play inside. 5:30-6:30 the kids all gathered in the cafeteria to consolidate. Morning was more structured.

Anonymous wrote:24 kids in a room with 3 adults? WTF?

Our kid is in a DC center. 8 kids and 3 adults. Seems relatively under control considering they're little impulsive snot boxes.

Anonymous wrote:24 kids in a room with 3 adults? WTF?

Our kid is in a DC center. 8 kids and 3 adults. Seems relatively under control considering they're little impulsive snot boxes.

I thought the ratio seemed really high too. Glad it's not just me.

Anonymous wrote:1:8 is an odd ratio - how old were the kids?

Chaos to a certain extent, esp at free play. But not noise or running around - I would expect the teachers to keep a lid on that.

We waited until my son was 3.5 to move him from his in-home in part because he doesn't do great with large crowds and noises, and no regrets. He transitioned well to the center, but the extra year (of his age) was great to help with that.

Kids in the room "have turned 2 by September 30th". So they'll all be between 2-3. I think maybe that's the route we'll end up going. That would give us a whole lot more options too, as so many places start at 3.

Anonymous wrote:End of day is usually the loudest. Kids are up from naps, parents are coming in picking kids up, if it's too hot to go outside the kids (energy charged from naps) are inside playing. Sound can also be amplified by tile floors and the type of walls they have.

Yeah, as a teacher my 7th period is always 10x louder than my 1st period. End of day is hard! I just think it's potentially too much for my kiddo to handle at this point, being an only child who craves quiet, and having experience in a small home setting where he gets so much attention. I'm not sure I'm ready to trade attention for structure yet.

Center director here - no, no, no! Do not go to this center! 24 kids with 3 teachers when all are 2 years old is CRAZY. There will be biting, pushing, screaming, and omigod, no don't do this to your introverted, shy, slow to warm up child.

No, having them "all consolidate in one room" means the ratio will also be CRAZY at the end of the day when kids need it be calmest. And why aren't they outside from 3:30 to 5:30pm? Oh, no playground. OK, run. Find another center. Where do you live, we'll give you great ideas for other schools. If you are looking in DC, near Dupont Circle, look at School for Friends. I wouldn't choose a center that didn't have it's own playground unless you really, really had to. It's so very important for our children to be outside every single day (barring heat index too high, smog too high, or it being just too freezing) and best if it's twice a day.

Honestly, each of the classrooms in our center are not crazy at 3:30pm. Yes, it's a time when a transition is happening - kids have just gotten off cots and gone/going to the bathroom, getting ready or finishing snack, and lots of little voices can be loud. But CRAZY? No, and when you stay for a little bit, you should start to see that there is rhyme and reason to what the kids are doing (finishing snack, cleaning up, washing hands, going and making a choice if staying inside for a bit or going to the bathroom and getting ready to go outside would be what you'd see at 3:30pm in each classroom - plus or minus a few minutes). Really, a preschool classroom shouldn't ever be CRAZY - yes, it will be louder because children don't have an "indoor voice" meter so when they get excited, they talk. But they also shouldn't just be screaming - so there are times when it is relatively quiet. I directed a center with infants and toddler rooms and, no, the infant rooms are not "crazy" either - yes, babies cry and are attended to, yes a few cry at the same time, but the teachers quietly and calmly work to meet each child's needs and get good at settling two at once, attending to two at once, etc. So although there are few minutes when a few are crying, if you stay for 5 more minutes, you'll see that things will calm down as the teachers have a method and a plan.

Of course, in improperly run centers, you get chaos, a mess, noise all the time, etc. Keep searching, you can do better.

Also, that group size and ratio is just too much for 2 year olds. It's not legal in DC and it's not legal in MD, but I don't know if it's legal in VA.

[Anonymous]

We had our son in a large center and it never felt chaotic. They pushed the class sizes and ratios to as high as they could, but the space was big enough and well organized enough that everyone had room. The classrooms were big, hallways wide, plenty of bathrooms, big playground onsite.

From 2 - 2 yrs 10 months he was in a classroom with 12 kids and 3 teachers. Then he moved up to 16 kids and 2 teachers.

At the end of the day, they did consolidate the kids, but they always remained in ratio. In fact it was usually very quiet when we arrived at around 5:45, with 3-4 kids and one teacher. That's because it was a federal center and I think most of the feds did an early pickup, so there just were not that many kids at the end of the day. So the upshot is that as PP said, it was calm at the end of the day when the kids needed it the most.

I think most importantly, the center was very well organized and run. Professional admins, easy to communicate with, and they organized everything well.

IMO "chaos" is not something you should ever experience at a childcare center.

[Anonymous]

24 2 yos in one room? Hell, no.