Questionable behavior by almost 4 year old - Grappling for answers

[Anonymous]

DS is 3 years and 9 months old. I find some of his behavior worrisome. I'm not posting here for a diagnosis. I realize the futility of trying to do that in an online forum. I'm really just grappling for answers and looking for what the next steps should be.

DS never comes home and talks about school. He started a new school a month and a half ago but never talks about his day. I've tried differnet ways to get him to but to no avail. He just says he doesn't want to talk about it. But he says he likes his school. Based on what I see during pick up and drop off it is a wonderful place. He previously went to a day care for a year before this place and never spoke about it either. That place had a video cam so we could find out how his day was.
He will often not respond to his name. His hearing is perfectly fine but I can't ever have a casual conversation with him. I can't for instance be in the next room and call his name out once ( or 5 times) and expect response. Its a little easier if we are in the middle of a conversation, but other wise I have to stand in front of him and demand he pay attention and then ask my question.

He has always had obsessive interests. We didn't think much of it until he turned 3, but it has started to worry me now. It used to be clocks, trucks, washing machines ( he would stand by the machine and watch every the entire washing and then watch washing machine washing clothes on youtube), cars ( he knows the names, make, logo of every car). Its not like he does this the entire day, but his current obsession is cars and he'll talk about which make of car he has atleast 4-5 times a day. He will make up what cars he has for the day, one day it would be say a blue color honda civic and a sienna and he'll tell me about how many wipers it has and how many people it can seat. He will say this several times a day. But that the things that has begun to bother me is that a lot of his conversations are repetitions. He will want to see all the vitamin supplements everybody at home takes, he will ask me everyday how old i am. When I sit down for dinner with him, he will ask how whatever on the table was made. These might not come up everyday, but they are repeated quite frequently. He has a set of 10 to 12 things/topics he will talk about constantly. Spontaneous conversations are not frequent. I picked him up after his first day in school and was anxious to know how it went and the only thing he wanted to talk about was how the wipers work on the car. This is very typical of him.

When he is excited, he likes to jump up and down. He twirls his hair a lot. His gross motor skills are somewhat lagging. He met all his milestones on time. Talking, walking etc. But when I go to the playground, he seems to lag behind what the other kids can do. He's also very risk averse and cautions. . Once he is in the playground he will play but will not ask to go by himself and will usually have to be coaxed into going.

In his daycare, he didn't interact much with the other kids. I assumed he was very shy but during drop off a particular girl would run up to him to say hi everyday, and he rarely ever responded. In a group, he doesn't talk much and is very quite. He has had limited one on one interactions with kids cause we don't have any family here or friends with kids his age. In those interactions he seems very guarded but makes an effort. His school currently has a summer camp, once the regular teaches come in, I plan to talk to them to help him improve his social skills and request more frequent feedback.

He is smart and learns things easily and has an excellent memory.

He is usually grumpy when he comes back from school. In the last couple of weeks there have been at least 3 meltdowns. The meltdowns are kind of new. It didn't happen until a few months ago. He also hates loud sounds. He will lock himself up if I need to turn on the Blendtec and is scared of flushes in unfamiliar toilets cause they might make a 'big sound'. Getting him to use a toilet outside the house/school is a struggle.

All of this sounds very typical of Asperger's to me, but I don't want to make any assessments based on a few google searches. I don't know any special needs kids and just a couple of regular kids his age. They seem very typical without these eccentricities.. I realize there is a wide range of normal, but I don't know if this falls into it.

At this point my goal is for me to learn how to parent him without losing my sanity and get him help if he needs it. We spoke to his regular pediatrician a few months ago. He said he seemed to have some symptoms but that he also communicated very well. He asked us to work with him, to get him out of his world and celebrate his strengths.
Some days I feel certain that he needs help, other days I wonder if I am blowing things out of proportion.

No history of special needs on either side of the family.

If we need to get him assessed, what would be the first step. Should I take him to a developmental pediatrician? We live in Howard County. Appreciate any references.

This is a lengthy post. Thank you for bearing with me.

[Anonymous]

Yes, he needs an evaluation. I would get a full one and include receptive language and a hearing exam.

[Anonymous]

And yes a developmental pediatrician is the place to start.

[Anonymous]

I don't know... watching the washing machine sounds kind of strange but a lot of these things sound normal. My 4 year old won't tell me a thing about her day. She just says "I don't remember." She also has a one track mind and will ramble about her latest "thing" to anyone who will listen. She also has meltdowns every once in a while (and it seems like it goes in spurts of a few in a row and then none for a while).

I tend to tell people to trust their gut but I wouldn't necessarily be freaking out.

[Anonymous]

I think you for sure need to have a developmental pediatrician do a full assessment.

[Anonymous]

What does your child do when he watches the washing machine cycle? My Aspergers child buzzed and flapped watching the spin cycle. What helped me catch the repetitive behaviors was to take video when he wasn't watching... and I caught the flapping, buzzing and jumping that I hadn't noticed as much.

The conversation piece bears having a discussion with a developmental pediatrician as well.

The way I typically describe my Aspergers child is that he is just not on the same page/wavelength as other people in any given context. When everyone is serious, he is goofy. When everyone is happy, he is grumpy. When he makes jokes, no one gets it... etc... Just totally out of step with people and things around him.

I think when a child's behaviors are causing stress in the family, you should investigate.

As for my family, our child had significantly more trouble at school: unable to participate in a group setting, wandering away, rolling pencils and crayons off the table over and over again, refusing to great peers or teachers... these were all signs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yes a developmental pediatrician is the place to start.

Call Kennedy Krieger in Baltimore or Children's in DC and get on a waitlist for an appointment to see a developmental pediatrician. The appointment times they first offer you will probably several months off, but more than likely a cancelation will come up and you'll be able to get in sooner. Just cancel the appointment you don't need.

FYI, many kids don't talk about their day, but the lack of interaction with peers and the obsessive/repetitive conversations are a cause for concern. If you get a diagnosis of one kind or another, think of it as opportunity to learn more about your kid and how best to help him. You sound as though you have a bright little kid, and things will be okay.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, you can buy headphones from Home Depot to cancel out noise and bring them if you need to travel for the "loud" toilets.

[Anonymous]

What's missing here is what his teachers say? In my (limited) experience teachers are overly eager to point out any developmental issues.

I'd make an effort to spend more time around kids his age so you can see how he socializes.

A lot of what you describe sounds like my kid who has no diagnosis. What I worried was Aspergers at 3 now looks much more like a unique little kid with anxiety at 4.

I do think repetitive conversation is typical at his age. The more telling thing is whether he can also engage in a give-and-take - like notice and respond when you bring up something that engages him? I do think expecting him to talk about his day is a red herring. Few kids do that.

My boy changed so much right at 3.5 to 4 - became much more interested in socializing, imaginative play, etc. You might see some changes too in the next few months.

If you're truly worried, go ahead and get an assessment, but also spend some time hanging out in a more low key way seeing how he changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's missing here is what his teachers say? In my (limited) experience teachers are overly eager to point out any developmental issues.

I think teachers are more likely to do this if a kid is disruptive or has problem behaviors at school. So some kid's issues fly under the radar.

[Anonymous]

Fwiw my kid is typically developing and. Very social but terrified of loud public toilets, hair dryers, vacuums and coffee grinders. She also has difficulty reporting on her day. Go ahead and get evaluated. He sounds a bit like my neighbor's kid who was found to have a mild social delay and placed in a public prek in our neighborhood and is catching up nicely while his parents save on daycare.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you all for the responses. Very grateful.

Yes, he repeatedly jumps in his place when he used to watch washing machine videos. It is not his current obsession though. But will jump when he is excited.
I agree, many of these things are exhibited by typical kids. Its the combination of everything that bothers me.

In his old daycare him being very quite and following all the rules combined with not very great teachers who were busy putting out fires resulted in him flying under the radar i think. I don't think they cared that he wasn't thriving.
We just switched schools and I'm waiting for regular class to commence come Sept. to get feedback from his teachers. It is going to be valuable.

Yes, he can engage in back and forth conversation very well if engaged. Just a bulk of the conversation he initiates will be on his 10-12 repeated subjects. We have always been able to leave him alone by himself without having to worry about him hurting himself ( v cautious) and he will keep himself engaged for hours. Its great, until you realize that he is listening to preset music patterns on his keyboard or walking around with spoons making imaginary clock needles ( clocks were an obsession). He isn't learning anything and it is the opportunity cost of not going out and throwing the ball or playing with puzzles or legos. We have a dedicated parent to draw him out to engage him with something useful. It works sometimes and other times we let go. But its tiresome.

Of late there is a lot of tantrums and crying. He needs his cup of water in that cup, from that jug, filled to that level all of which change the minute you fill it out. Its perfectly normal behavior in itself but given his other tendencies, I wonder if he is trying to create a sense of control over things. Every day at pick up time, he will run to his potty to pee irrespective of whether he needs to go and show me his potty and flush. Its a ritual. Its perfectly normal for kids to arrange cars to make a parking lot, but when he did it 2 days in a row, I worry.

I will get an appointment for an assessment if there is nothing to lose by it. I was wondering if we have enough data points to make an assessment. My initial plan was to wait for the school to raise some red flags. But the not knowing is bothering me so I will go ahead.

[Anonymous]

Op I have entirely different issues with my son so no actual advice but I will tell you to trust your gut. I know it's trite but mothers are not often worried for no reason about developmental things - at least not to this point - and we are good at picking up the real issues. His repeptitive behaviors are interfering with his quality of life. So it's awesome you're assessing and in the meantime, and regardless - he's your bright fun kid so you have to try to put it out of your head. All the best.

[Anonymous]

The only thing that sounds odd is the washing machine thing. Both of my kids began obsessing about cars at an early age and still point out different types of cars to each other whenever we leave the house. Meltdowns after school are also normal. One of my kids was afraid of the sound of a flushing toilet outside of our own house. (He's perfectly normal.)

I guess you're in the best position to say something seems wrong, but from what you wrote --- I don't see it. Young kids are weird creatures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fwiw my kid is typically developing and. Very social but terrified of loud public toilets, hair dryers, vacuums and coffee grinders. She also has difficulty reporting on her day. Go ahead and get evaluated. He sounds a bit like my neighbor's kid who was found to have a mild social delay and placed in a public prek in our neighborhood and is catching up nicely while his parents save on daycare.

Ha ha, I forgot about the coffee grinder. My kid would hold his ears, or I would give him a chance to leave the kitchen first. A year later he was begging to grind the coffee.