Anonymous wrote:As someone who has been through this a couple of years ago in upcounty with multiple separate conversations with BOE members. I can guarantee that overcrowding isn't the primary thing that MCPS is trying to fix. They say it is, but it's not. You'll see it when the boundary study decision comes in. In upcounty, the PRIMARY reason for the study was to relieve Clarksburg HS from overcrowding. Guess what- Clarksburg is still overcrowded with kids in portables. The upcounty study is the model that will be followed going forward- those are words straight out of the BOE.
The PRIMARY reason for the study was the new Seneca Valley HS building.
No. The primary reason for the study was to explore the reassignment of students at Clarksburg HS (and secondarily, Northwest) to Seneca Valley due to increased capacity at Seneca Valley.
Right. The primary reason for the study was the new Seneca Valley HS building.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
They can split-articulate Woodlin using the railroad tracks, or 16th St, or Georgia as the dividing line. Send the western section to BCC.
And a Forest Glen parent is heard from. You are never going to BCC. Any people who buy the silver spring is great cool-aid. Look at actual silver spring residents who think (irrationally mind you) for one sec that they have a shot of being rezoned out. Where are they begging to go? It really tells you all you need to know about what they really think about the schools and communities that feed them.
Obviously, a bunch of Silver Spring families send their kids to private schools. Funnily enough, a bunch of Bethesda and Potomac families also send their kids to private schools. There are also a lot of Silver Spring/Wheaton families that are very happy with their zoned schools. Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school. My family is not zoned for Woodlin, so I have no skin in this game, but Woodlin is pretty far from Einstein already. It makes perfect sense to rezone them from an overcrowded school that is far away to a not overcrowded school that is only slightly further away. Who cares whose "wet dream" (ew, why?) this is? The houses in that area are so expensive that those families will likely still be considering private.
"Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school"
Exactly. The boundary analysis showed that most people in the county want to stay put. They don't even want to move to a closer school. They prefer stability.
Then they should be willing to pay more in taxes because "stability" for everyone means it's a lot more difficult and expensive to address overcrowding.
They also valued close proximity. So most would be OK with their kids being moved to a closer school if it relieved overcrowding. What they rejected was being moved (any distance) for diversity reasons.
You have said that approximately seven billion times since 2019, and every single time it was equally factually incorrect.
You're welcome to post evidence to the contrary. But you won't because you can't.
If you said "People who chose to interact with the Interactive Boundary Explorer between October 20, 2020, and December 1, 2020, who were disproportionately white and highly disproportionately lived in Bethesda, Potomac, or Chevy Chase..." then yes, your statements would be correct, or at least correct-ish.
Thank you. As I said, "In terms of priorities, respondents emphasized proximity to schools and student assignment stability (including minimizing boundary changes and minimizing the number of students impacted by them)."
As for what you said, it's utter nonsense. The tool was virtual and everyone had access to it. Your statement makes as much sense as claiming a winning politician should listen to the minority of voters because "they totally represent the majority."
Similarly, everyone has the option to sleep under bridges. But not everyone actually does.
If you want to talk about the opinion of the voters, sure, let's do that. The voters did not vote for the "neighborhood schools" candidates. They lost big. Some of them even moved out of Montgomery County altogether.
This is gaslighting. EVERYONE had the opportunity to comment on the boundary analysis and 90-95% of them said they didn't care about diversity. The tribe has spoken. What more do you want? Oh, I know. You want pro-busing activists to go door to door and write down the names of people who want busing. Good luck with that.
Gaslighting: to manipulate (someone) using psychological methods into questioning their own sanity or powers of reasoning.
Are you questioning your own sanity or powers of reasoning?
Everyone had the option to respond. Most people did not respond. There are over a million people in Montgomery County. There are about 160,000 students enrolled in MCPS. About 2,100 people TOTAL responded to the boundary analysis's Interactive Boundary Explorer - and they were disproportionately white (40%, plus another 29% "I do not care to say") and from Bethesda, Potomac or Chevy Chase (54%). Maybe that's your "tribe", I don't know.
You mean the racial make-up of the survey respondents was completely in line with the county demographics? Huh.
And it sounds like the number of responses is commensurate with the county's level of interest in the analysis.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
They can split-articulate Woodlin using the railroad tracks, or 16th St, or Georgia as the dividing line. Send the western section to BCC.
And a Forest Glen parent is heard from. You are never going to BCC. Any people who buy the silver spring is great cool-aid. Look at actual silver spring residents who think (irrationally mind you) for one sec that they have a shot of being rezoned out. Where are they begging to go? It really tells you all you need to know about what they really think about the schools and communities that feed them.
Obviously, a bunch of Silver Spring families send their kids to private schools. Funnily enough, a bunch of Bethesda and Potomac families also send their kids to private schools. There are also a lot of Silver Spring/Wheaton families that are very happy with their zoned schools. Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school. My family is not zoned for Woodlin, so I have no skin in this game, but Woodlin is pretty far from Einstein already. It makes perfect sense to rezone them from an overcrowded school that is far away to a not overcrowded school that is only slightly further away. Who cares whose "wet dream" (ew, why?) this is? The houses in that area are so expensive that those families will likely still be considering private.
"Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school"
Exactly. The boundary analysis showed that most people in the county want to stay put. They don't even want to move to a closer school. They prefer stability.
Then they should be willing to pay more in taxes because "stability" for everyone means it's a lot more difficult and expensive to address overcrowding.
They also valued close proximity. So most would be OK with their kids being moved to a closer school if it relieved overcrowding. What they rejected was being moved (any distance) for diversity reasons.
You have said that approximately seven billion times since 2019, and every single time it was equally factually incorrect.
You're welcome to post evidence to the contrary. But you won't because you can't.
If you said "People who chose to interact with the Interactive Boundary Explorer between October 20, 2020, and December 1, 2020, who were disproportionately white and highly disproportionately lived in Bethesda, Potomac, or Chevy Chase..." then yes, your statements would be correct, or at least correct-ish.
Thank you. As I said, "In terms of priorities, respondents emphasized proximity to schools and student assignment stability (including minimizing boundary changes and minimizing the number of students impacted by them)."
As for what you said, it's utter nonsense. The tool was virtual and everyone had access to it. Your statement makes as much sense as claiming a winning politician should listen to the minority of voters because "they totally represent the majority."
Similarly, everyone has the option to sleep under bridges. But not everyone actually does.
If you want to talk about the opinion of the voters, sure, let's do that. The voters did not vote for the "neighborhood schools" candidates. They lost big. Some of them even moved out of Montgomery County altogether.
This is gaslighting. EVERYONE had the opportunity to comment on the boundary analysis and 90-95% of them said they didn't care about diversity. The tribe has spoken. What more do you want? Oh, I know. You want pro-busing activists to go door to door and write down the names of people who want busing. Good luck with that.
Gaslighting: to manipulate (someone) using psychological methods into questioning their own sanity or powers of reasoning.
Are you questioning your own sanity or powers of reasoning?
Everyone had the option to respond. Most people did not respond. There are over a million people in Montgomery County. There are about 160,000 students enrolled in MCPS. About 2,100 people TOTAL responded to the boundary analysis's Interactive Boundary Explorer - and they were disproportionately white (40%, plus another 29% "I do not care to say") and from Bethesda, Potomac or Chevy Chase (54%). Maybe that's your "tribe", I don't know.
You mean the racial make-up of the survey respondents was completely in line with the county demographics? Huh.
And it sounds like the number of responses is commensurate with the county's level of interest in the analysis.
As for my tribe, it's the entire county.
MCPS student population, 2022-2023:
14% Asian-American
22% Black/African-American
35% Hispanic/Latino
5% more than 1 category
24% white
If you look at the priorities broken down by region (P.108), every region except one is in lock-step,overwhelmingly preferring stability and proximity. The southeast's data was so far out of whack with the rest of the county that one must wonder if the data in this region was gathered or interpreted correctly.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
They can split-articulate Woodlin using the railroad tracks, or 16th St, or Georgia as the dividing line. Send the western section to BCC.
And a Forest Glen parent is heard from. You are never going to BCC. Any people who buy the silver spring is great cool-aid. Look at actual silver spring residents who think (irrationally mind you) for one sec that they have a shot of being rezoned out. Where are they begging to go? It really tells you all you need to know about what they really think about the schools and communities that feed them.
Obviously, a bunch of Silver Spring families send their kids to private schools. Funnily enough, a bunch of Bethesda and Potomac families also send their kids to private schools. There are also a lot of Silver Spring/Wheaton families that are very happy with their zoned schools. Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school. My family is not zoned for Woodlin, so I have no skin in this game, but Woodlin is pretty far from Einstein already. It makes perfect sense to rezone them from an overcrowded school that is far away to a not overcrowded school that is only slightly further away. Who cares whose "wet dream" (ew, why?) this is? The houses in that area are so expensive that those families will likely still be considering private.
"Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school"
Exactly. The boundary analysis showed that most people in the county want to stay put. They don't even want to move to a closer school. They prefer stability.
Then they should be willing to pay more in taxes because "stability" for everyone means it's a lot more difficult and expensive to address overcrowding.
They also valued close proximity. So most would be OK with their kids being moved to a closer school if it relieved overcrowding. What they rejected was being moved (any distance) for diversity reasons.
You have said that approximately seven billion times since 2019, and every single time it was equally factually incorrect.
You're welcome to post evidence to the contrary. But you won't because you can't.
If you said "People who chose to interact with the Interactive Boundary Explorer between October 20, 2020, and December 1, 2020, who were disproportionately white and highly disproportionately lived in Bethesda, Potomac, or Chevy Chase..." then yes, your statements would be correct, or at least correct-ish.
Thank you. As I said, "In terms of priorities, respondents emphasized proximity to schools and student assignment stability (including minimizing boundary changes and minimizing the number of students impacted by them)."
As for what you said, it's utter nonsense. The tool was virtual and everyone had access to it. Your statement makes as much sense as claiming a winning politician should listen to the minority of voters because "they totally represent the majority."
Similarly, everyone has the option to sleep under bridges. But not everyone actually does.
If you want to talk about the opinion of the voters, sure, let's do that. The voters did not vote for the "neighborhood schools" candidates. They lost big. Some of them even moved out of Montgomery County altogether.
This is gaslighting. EVERYONE had the opportunity to comment on the boundary analysis and 90-95% of them said they didn't care about diversity. The tribe has spoken. What more do you want? Oh, I know. You want pro-busing activists to go door to door and write down the names of people who want busing. Good luck with that.
Gaslighting: to manipulate (someone) using psychological methods into questioning their own sanity or powers of reasoning.
Are you questioning your own sanity or powers of reasoning?
Everyone had the option to respond. Most people did not respond. There are over a million people in Montgomery County. There are about 160,000 students enrolled in MCPS. About 2,100 people TOTAL responded to the boundary analysis's Interactive Boundary Explorer - and they were disproportionately white (40%, plus another 29% "I do not care to say") and from Bethesda, Potomac or Chevy Chase (54%). Maybe that's your "tribe", I don't know.
You mean the racial make-up of the survey respondents was completely in line with the county demographics? Huh.
And it sounds like the number of responses is commensurate with the county's level of interest in the analysis.
As for my tribe, it's the entire county.
MCPS student population, 2022-2023:
14% Asian-American
22% Black/African-American
35% Hispanic/Latino
5% more than 1 category
24% white
If you look at the priorities broken down by region (P.108), every region except one is in lock-step,overwhelmingly preferring stability and proximity. The southeast's data was so far out of whack with the rest of the county that one must wonder if the data in this region was gathered or interpreted correctly.
It's so weird how the affluent people disproportionately responded to the boundary tool, by saying they wanted to stay in their affluent enclaves! I can't understand it.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
They can split-articulate Woodlin using the railroad tracks, or 16th St, or Georgia as the dividing line. Send the western section to BCC.
And a Forest Glen parent is heard from. You are never going to BCC. Any people who buy the silver spring is great cool-aid. Look at actual silver spring residents who think (irrationally mind you) for one sec that they have a shot of being rezoned out. Where are they begging to go? It really tells you all you need to know about what they really think about the schools and communities that feed them.
Obviously, a bunch of Silver Spring families send their kids to private schools. Funnily enough, a bunch of Bethesda and Potomac families also send their kids to private schools. There are also a lot of Silver Spring/Wheaton families that are very happy with their zoned schools. Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school. My family is not zoned for Woodlin, so I have no skin in this game, but Woodlin is pretty far from Einstein already. It makes perfect sense to rezone them from an overcrowded school that is far away to a not overcrowded school that is only slightly further away. Who cares whose "wet dream" (ew, why?) this is? The houses in that area are so expensive that those families will likely still be considering private.
"Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school"
Exactly. The boundary analysis showed that most people in the county want to stay put. They don't even want to move to a closer school. They prefer stability.
Then they should be willing to pay more in taxes because "stability" for everyone means it's a lot more difficult and expensive to address overcrowding.
They also valued close proximity. So most would be OK with their kids being moved to a closer school if it relieved overcrowding. What they rejected was being moved (any distance) for diversity reasons.
You have said that approximately seven billion times since 2019, and every single time it was equally factually incorrect.
You're welcome to post evidence to the contrary. But you won't because you can't.
If you said "People who chose to interact with the Interactive Boundary Explorer between October 20, 2020, and December 1, 2020, who were disproportionately white and highly disproportionately lived in Bethesda, Potomac, or Chevy Chase..." then yes, your statements would be correct, or at least correct-ish.
Thank you. As I said, "In terms of priorities, respondents emphasized proximity to schools and student assignment stability (including minimizing boundary changes and minimizing the number of students impacted by them)."
As for what you said, it's utter nonsense. The tool was virtual and everyone had access to it. Your statement makes as much sense as claiming a winning politician should listen to the minority of voters because "they totally represent the majority."
Similarly, everyone has the option to sleep under bridges. But not everyone actually does.
If you want to talk about the opinion of the voters, sure, let's do that. The voters did not vote for the "neighborhood schools" candidates. They lost big. Some of them even moved out of Montgomery County altogether.
This is gaslighting. EVERYONE had the opportunity to comment on the boundary analysis and 90-95% of them said they didn't care about diversity. The tribe has spoken. What more do you want? Oh, I know. You want pro-busing activists to go door to door and write down the names of people who want busing. Good luck with that.
Gaslighting: to manipulate (someone) using psychological methods into questioning their own sanity or powers of reasoning.
Are you questioning your own sanity or powers of reasoning?
Everyone had the option to respond. Most people did not respond. There are over a million people in Montgomery County. There are about 160,000 students enrolled in MCPS. About 2,100 people TOTAL responded to the boundary analysis's Interactive Boundary Explorer - and they were disproportionately white (40%, plus another 29% "I do not care to say") and from Bethesda, Potomac or Chevy Chase (54%). Maybe that's your "tribe", I don't know.
You mean the racial make-up of the survey respondents was completely in line with the county demographics? Huh.
And it sounds like the number of responses is commensurate with the county's level of interest in the analysis.
As for my tribe, it's the entire county.
MCPS student population, 2022-2023:
14% Asian-American
22% Black/African-American
35% Hispanic/Latino
5% more than 1 category
24% white
If you look at the priorities broken down by region (P.108), every region except one is in lock-step,overwhelmingly preferring stability and proximity. The southeast's data was so far out of whack with the rest of the county that one must wonder if the data in this region was gathered or interpreted correctly.
It's so weird how the affluent people disproportionately responded to the boundary tool, by saying they wanted to stay in their affluent enclaves! I can't understand it.
It's also baffling that low income families and families of color didn't turn up at the in-person meetings after the first meeting went so poorly that it ended with affluent white men screaming at children of color.
I am a person who's child may be rezoned from WJ to Einstein and is favor of this change if it's not too disruptive to their high school experience.
My DH does not feel similarly and thinks that the recent supreme court decision on affirmative action may limit MCPS's ability to use diversity as a factor in boundary studies/rezoning. He thinks that any legal action on those grounds may been seen as having merit. Thoughts?
Anonymous wrote:I am a person who's child may be rezoned from WJ to Einstein and is favor of this change if it's not too disruptive to their high school experience.
My DH does not feel similarly and thinks that the recent supreme court decision on affirmative action may limit MCPS's ability to use diversity as a factor in boundary studies/rezoning. He thinks that any legal action on those grounds may been seen as having merit. Thoughts?
No. MCPS was already not allowed to make decisions based on the race or gender of a student.
Anonymous wrote:I am a person who's child may be rezoned from WJ to Einstein and is favor of this change if it's not too disruptive to their high school experience.
My DH does not feel similarly and thinks that the recent supreme court decision on affirmative action may limit MCPS's ability to use diversity as a factor in boundary studies/rezoning. He thinks that any legal action on those grounds may been seen as having merit. Thoughts?
No. MCPS was already not allowed to make decisions based on the race or gender of a student.
But they used race anyway. The Supreme Court decision wasn’t on point but it does give insight into its thinking. Policy FAA is on shakier ground now for sure.
Anonymous wrote:I am a person who's child may be rezoned from WJ to Einstein and is favor of this change if it's not too disruptive to their high school experience.
My DH does not feel similarly and thinks that the recent supreme court decision on affirmative action may limit MCPS's ability to use diversity as a factor in boundary studies/rezoning. He thinks that any legal action on those grounds may been seen as having merit. Thoughts?
MCPS doesn't use race. They use SES which just happens to be a really good proxy in MoCo.
Anonymous wrote:I am a person who's child may be rezoned from WJ to Einstein and is favor of this change if it's not too disruptive to their high school experience.
My DH does not feel similarly and thinks that the recent supreme court decision on affirmative action may limit MCPS's ability to use diversity as a factor in boundary studies/rezoning. He thinks that any legal action on those grounds may been seen as having merit. Thoughts?
MCPS doesn't use race. They use SES which just happens to be a really good proxy in MoCo.
MCPS does not use socioeconomic status. In fact, MCPS does not even have any data about the socioeconomic status of students' families. It would be impossible for MCPS to use socioeconomic status.
Anonymous wrote:I am a person who's child may be rezoned from WJ to Einstein and is favor of this change if it's not too disruptive to their high school experience.
My DH does not feel similarly and thinks that the recent supreme court decision on affirmative action may limit MCPS's ability to use diversity as a factor in boundary studies/rezoning. He thinks that any legal action on those grounds may been seen as having merit. Thoughts?
Even if they don't consider diversity, there's still a compelling reason to rezone Kensington to Einstein: proximity.
Anonymous wrote:I am a person who's child may be rezoned from WJ to Einstein and is favor of this change if it's not too disruptive to their high school experience.
My DH does not feel similarly and thinks that the recent supreme court decision on affirmative action may limit MCPS's ability to use diversity as a factor in boundary studies/rezoning. He thinks that any legal action on those grounds may been seen as having merit. Thoughts?
MCPS doesn't use race. They use SES which just happens to be a really good proxy in MoCo.
Anonymous wrote:I am a person who's child may be rezoned from WJ to Einstein and is favor of this change if it's not too disruptive to their high school experience.
My DH does not feel similarly and thinks that the recent supreme court decision on affirmative action may limit MCPS's ability to use diversity as a factor in boundary studies/rezoning. He thinks that any legal action on those grounds may been seen as having merit. Thoughts?
MCPS doesn't use race. They use SES which just happens to be a really good proxy in MoCo.
Anonymous wrote:I am a person who's child may be rezoned from WJ to Einstein and is favor of this change if it's not too disruptive to their high school experience.
My DH does not feel similarly and thinks that the recent supreme court decision on affirmative action may limit MCPS's ability to use diversity as a factor in boundary studies/rezoning. He thinks that any legal action on those grounds may been seen as having merit. Thoughts?
No. MCPS was already not allowed to make decisions based on the race or gender of a student.
But they used race anyway. The Supreme Court decision wasn’t on point but it does give insight into its thinking. Policy FAA is on shakier ground now for sure.
For the demographic factor, Policy FAA says:
Demographic characteristics of student population
Analyses of options take into account the impact of various options on the
overall populations of affected schools. Options should especially strive to
create a diverse student body in each of the affected schools in alignment
with Board Policy ACD, Quality Integrated Education. Demographic data
showing the impact of various options include the following: racial/ethnic
composition of the student population, the socioeconomic composition of
the student population, the level of English language learners, and other
reliable demographic indicators and participation in specific educational
programs.
The Supreme Court held that universities may not consider the race of an individual applicant in the decision to admit or not admit that applicant. That does not apply here. MCPS is not considering the race of any individual student.
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