Why don’t schools have stronger policies about redshirting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

I am the PP and I don't believe this at all. I am well, well aware EI and public schools do not treat SM and do not know how. I apologize if I seemed to you to imply that when suggesting parents get an IEP in place (and work with the teacher to do fade ins and do exposures outside of school). An IEP is not remotely sufficient by itself but it is important to get it.

[Anonymous]

But fwiw my child's K teacher in public school was much more adept at working with kids like my DC than the preschool teachers, who were sweet and lovely but simply do not have the same breadth of experience or education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many people who are redshirting their 5 yos today have no idea what kind of trouble lies ahead 3-4 years from now when their kids are completely bored and understimulated in class. Good luck trying to get a grade skip unless you jump through a million hoops.

Except those people don’t live in a vacuum and know many people who have redshirted before them to know that you’re peddling falsehoods. This just isn’t true no matter how often you repeat it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

That's *your* interpretation. That's what *you* want to believe and it is a rather extreme interpretation of everything I've posted here. But if it serves you to hate me, knock yourself out. Just don't make throwaway statements about conditions you have zero experience with to justify redshirting for other reasons. I actually could not care less whether parents redshirt their kids. Sorry if that is hard for you to process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

Exactly.

And? The opposite is also true— there are some circumstances where a September birthday kid with SN DESPERATELY needs to be in school! Again, kids need to go for all different reasons and not all of them are obvious to outsiders.

The bottom line is the parents need to make this choice. Not random angry people on the internet.

Your choices impact others. 5 year olds in k with 6-7 year olds creates inappropriate expectations as expectations are set for older kids when it should be set for a five year old. It’s not healthy for any of the kids to be with a huge age range.

I see crazy natural law anti-redshirter has entered the chat.

What a load of nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

Exactly.

And? The opposite is also true— there are some circumstances where a September birthday kid with SN DESPERATELY needs to be in school! Again, kids need to go for all different reasons and not all of them are obvious to outsiders.

The bottom line is the parents need to make this choice. Not random angry people on the internet.

Your choices impact others. 5 year olds in k with 6-7 year olds creates inappropriate expectations as expectations are set for older kids when it should be set for a five year old. It’s not healthy for any of the kids to be with a huge age range.

My choices are intended to be best for *my kid*. I trust that you will also be making the best choice for your kid. It may be that means redshirting, it may mean supplemental material so your kid doesn’t fall behind, it may just mean talking to your kid about how all through school we will meet people of different ages and we always have to do *our* best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many people who are redshirting their 5 yos today have no idea what kind of trouble lies ahead 3-4 years from now when their kids are completely bored and understimulated in class. Good luck trying to get a grade skip unless you jump through a million hoops.

Yeah no one ever asks other parents about their experiences, consults with professionals, or asks the school what they do for differentiation. They just blindly make these choices and good thing you’re here to tell them you know more about their kids than they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people who are redshirting their 5 yos today have no idea what kind of trouble lies ahead 3-4 years from now when their kids are completely bored and understimulated in class. Good luck trying to get a grade skip unless you jump through a million hoops.

Yeah no one ever asks other parents about their experiences, consults with professionals, or asks the school what they do for differentiation. They just blindly make these choices and good thing you’re here to tell them you know more about their kids than they do.

Most people will push the choices they choose for their kids on others to justify their decisions, good or bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

Exactly.

And? The opposite is also true— there are some circumstances where a September birthday kid with SN DESPERATELY needs to be in school! Again, kids need to go for all different reasons and not all of them are obvious to outsiders.

The bottom line is the parents need to make this choice. Not random angry people on the internet.

Your choices impact others. 5 year olds in k with 6-7 year olds creates inappropriate expectations as expectations are set for older kids when it should be set for a five year old. It’s not healthy for any of the kids to be with a huge age range.

My choices are intended to be best for *my kid*. I trust that you will also be making the best choice for your kid. It may be that means redshirting, it may mean supplemental material so your kid doesn’t fall behind, it may just mean talking to your kid about how all through school we will meet people of different ages and we always have to do *our* best.

The point of having grades is to have kids with same age peers. If your kid needs extra help, you get it vs. holding back. You cannot say how smart and mature your child is when they are not in the proper grade and with kids 1-2 years younger. They are less mature if you base it appropriately on age. And, if you have a 3 year age gap in a class of kids taking algebra, for example and yours is the oldest, but in the same grade, they are not the smartest as they are older, the youngest would be the smartest. You cannot change IQ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

That's *your* interpretation. That's what *you* want to believe and it is a rather extreme interpretation of everything I've posted here. But if it serves you to hate me, knock yourself out. Just don't make throwaway statements about conditions you have zero experience with to justify redshirting for other reasons. I actually could not care less whether parents redshirt their kids. Sorry if that is hard for you to process.

PP here and my kid has ASD and had selective mutism in PK and K. We didn't redshirt, but my experiences as a SN parent have taught me to mind my own freaking business when it comes to how other parents of SN kids make choices for their kids. If I encountered a redshirted kid with SNs, I would assume those parents made the choice that made the most sense for their kid, in consultation with the school and the child's doctors and therapists. I also know that sometimes there's no "right" answer and you have to follow your gut.

You are sitting here arguing with everyone on the thread for no reason. I'm not even super into redshirting -- I actually agree with OP that there should be some limitations on it. But I don't sit around judging parents who are just trying to do their best for their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

You are a messed-up piece of work. The combination of profound narcissistic arrogance and deep ignorance is shocking.

Parents would be better served by doing whatever the opposite is of what you recommend.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

Exactly.

And? The opposite is also true— there are some circumstances where a September birthday kid with SN DESPERATELY needs to be in school! Again, kids need to go for all different reasons and not all of them are obvious to outsiders.

The bottom line is the parents need to make this choice. Not random angry people on the internet.

Your choices impact others. 5 year olds in k with 6-7 year olds creates inappropriate expectations as expectations are set for older kids when it should be set for a five year old. It’s not healthy for any of the kids to be with a huge age range.

I see crazy natural law anti-redshirter has entered the chat.

What a load of nonsense.

DP but you didn’t refute anything factual you just resorted to personal insults. That usually means that you are full of nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

That's *your* interpretation. That's what *you* want to believe and it is a rather extreme interpretation of everything I've posted here. But if it serves you to hate me, knock yourself out. Just don't make throwaway statements about conditions you have zero experience with to justify redshirting for other reasons. I actually could not care less whether parents redshirt their kids. Sorry if that is hard for you to process.

PP here and my kid has ASD and had selective mutism in PK and K. We didn't redshirt, but my experiences as a SN parent have taught me to mind my own freaking business when it comes to how other parents of SN kids make choices for their kids. If I encountered a redshirted kid with SNs, I would assume those parents made the choice that made the most sense for their kid, in consultation with the school and the child's doctors and therapists. I also know that sometimes there's no "right" answer and you have to follow your gut.

You are sitting here arguing with everyone on the thread for no reason. I'm not even super into redshirting -- I actually agree with OP that there should be some limitations on it. But I don't sit around judging parents who are just trying to do their best for their kids.

Your mistake is reading my posts as criticizing redshirting parents. That's something that you want to see in my posts even though it is not there. I'm glad I provided you the opportunity to fight with someone tonight and got to feel all self righteous but defending all the SN families I'm not attacking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

You are a messed-up piece of work. The combination of profound narcissistic arrogance and deep ignorance is shocking.

Parents would be better served by doing whatever the opposite is of what you recommend.

What I am recommending is people stfu on these boards about redshirting for specific conditions if they have no experience with that. It's bizarre that you want people to do the opposite of that but different strokes for different folks I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids with selective mutism who are redshirted have parents who are working with EI and private therapists, not asking DCUM in August whether they should redshirt their kids. I’m sure they’re deeply worried that in the opinion of non-experts they’re doing the wrong thing.

Are you saying EI and private therapists are actually recommending this?

I only know two cases personally, but in both of those cases the professionals recommended delaying kindergarten while the kid continued to do a supportive PreK program and get more therapy than would have been available in a public kindergarten schedule. I have no idea if that’s the “standard” recommendation. But the idea that the parents are sitting by idly just waiting for their kid to get older is a DCUM fiction.

Was this for selective mutism? Genuinely curious.

Many parents with kids with selective mutism don't recognize it. We thought our kid was just shy. When we realized what it was we definitely considered switching preschools and we talked to the therapist and she explained what our kid needed was treatment and that would not help.

Many people believe kids will outgrow SM and many kids do (with potential mental health consequences if the SM went on for many years). The treatment for SM is hard to access (most therapists don't take insurance) and requires extensive participation from parents as well as supportive teachers. I hear that you know of two whole cases (of SM? Or something totally different?) but I have absolutely no doubt many families in this situation are acting without qualified support. They are in a really stressful situation and I have nothing but empathy for them but it's simply not true everyone is making these decisions because their therapist suggested it.

In the case I know better (family member) the PreK 3 referred for EI because they suspected ASD. It was ultimately diagnosed as SM— and kid is a thriving 8 y/o now— but the amount of intervention they recommended was not going to be available to the child in public kindergarten, and by a huge margin (think, the child would get 5+ hours per week in PreK and 1-2 hours in K).

The second child my total body of knowledge is that “Dr. ______ says we’re better off starting him in 2027” so I’m sorry no more data there.

But none of these parents are just lazily deciding to wait out SM and the implication that they don’t know what they’re doing is pretty rude.

I didn't say or imply this. Let me repeat since you are clearly just here to fight and bash people: I have nothing but empathy for parents in this situation.

I will also say it sounds like you actually know of zero cases of a child whose therapists recommended redshirting for SM.

Kindly please stop using other people's kids to advance your own agenda you POS

DP who didn’t redshirt and who has kids with an SN where redshirting is sometimes recommended. You are truly an awful person. This is a shocking post. Please back off. You are making SN parents look awful.

No but you tell yourself that to justify misinforming people on here. This goes right up with with the folks who think it's ok to make deceptive statements about SN they don't know about because they think nobody with kids in that situation is reading this right now or making decisions based on it.

It’s equally (or greater) misinformation to tell people that public kindergarten will provide therapies and intervention to the degree needed for a SN child. That’s not universally true, and many parents need the flexibility of having their child treated in school.

Agreed. It is situationally dependent.

This conversation was originally about whether schools should have stricter limits on redshirting, because OP is in a place where redshirting kids who have no delays and winter and spring birthdays is happening.

But somehow now people are being yelled at for suggesting that a child with a diagnosed SN *and* a summer or September birthdays might do better if redshirted.

That's nuts. Of course there are situations where a young for the grade child with SNs should be redshirted, or at least where it's an understandable choice. Saying otherwise makes you sound like you just hate redshirting no matter what. That's not a rational position.

That's *your* interpretation. That's what *you* want to believe and it is a rather extreme interpretation of everything I've posted here. But if it serves you to hate me, knock yourself out. Just don't make throwaway statements about conditions you have zero experience with to justify redshirting for other reasons. I actually could not care less whether parents redshirt their kids. Sorry if that is hard for you to process.

PP here and my kid has ASD and had selective mutism in PK and K. We didn't redshirt, but my experiences as a SN parent have taught me to mind my own freaking business when it comes to how other parents of SN kids make choices for their kids. If I encountered a redshirted kid with SNs, I would assume those parents made the choice that made the most sense for their kid, in consultation with the school and the child's doctors and therapists. I also know that sometimes there's no "right" answer and you have to follow your gut.

You are sitting here arguing with everyone on the thread for no reason. I'm not even super into redshirting -- I actually agree with OP that there should be some limitations on it. But I don't sit around judging parents who are just trying to do their best for their kids.

DP, also a parent of a kid with SN who didn’t redshirt (but received mixed professional recommendations on whether to do it, and considered it). That PP was terribly raised, I think, and never heard the word “no.” She therefore elevates her quite ignorant personal opinions over the recommendations of professionals, because she thinks she knows better than all other parents and their professional advisors. It’s wild.