Initial boundary options for Crown/Damascus study

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My Next Door is blowing up with Waysiders building a coalition.

Good

[Anonymous]

The fact that Wootton is supposed to be a Rockville HS and lost RPES awhile back and now may lose Lakewood. So besides Fallsmead, all other ES that are going will now be Potomac or North Potomac schools?

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Moving Wayside out of Churchill helps with utilization. How else will they get Churchill below 100%?

It’s a BS utilization at Churchill. They’ve reduced capacity by 100 seats from when it first opened. What happened did the school shrink? Churchill has just had a period of a few years with higher enrollment which was consistently in lower figures and never had a portable until a year or two I believe. Kids there have stated it’s not crowded aside from the portable there’s no evidence to that.

Churchill parent here. There's no problem with Churchill being overcapacity. Yes, there are a couple of portables and I'm sure those teachers aren't excited about them. But I've never felt Churchill had too many kids generally. It's not hurting education or the social environment. And there's not much new construction in this area, so I wouldn't expect the problem to become worse in the next decade.

I have always wondered, though, why there are kids sooo far west that come to Churchill. Those are largely Wayside kids, and some Potomac kids. So yes, to drive from Wayside ES to Wootton HS, it may be about the same distance as going to from Wayside ES to Churchill HS. But a huge part of that geography is far closer to Wootton than to Churchill. Same with the Northern part of the Potomac ES boundaries. The culprit is that they're not looking at ES boundaries. I'd be interested in knowing the *average* student's bus time to both high schools-- there is certainly some house that is closer to Churchill and some house that is closer to Wootton. In sum, I think, capacity-wise, it would be fine for Wayside to continue to go to Churchill. But I think the quality of life for the average Wayside kid might improve by going to the closer school.

Wayside families definitely closer to Churchill for the most part. For us, it is 3 miles more to Wootton than to Churchill and an additional 10 minutes (give or take) round trip. Not horrible but doesn't make sense.

The Wayside families that should never been zoned to Wayside in the first place are in the Potomac Glen area. There are three other elementary schools closer to that neighborhood, namely Lakewood, Stone Mill, and Travilah. Why they were ever zoned for Wayside/Churchill is bizarre, but from what I understand the contractor that built that development had some connections with Montgomery County politicians who made it happen. That is the only area that should be rezoned to Wootton and to the appropriate elementary school. The rest of Wayside belongs at Churchill.

But they're not changing ES boundaries. And ES split articulation to different middle schools sounds terrible. And you're citing a 5 minute increase (one way) for part of the school zone to go to Wootton where another part of the school zone would probably save 2 or 3 times that by going to Wootton. And MCPS is trying to put together a big jigsaw puzzle in which not every household will benefit, but the overall system is better. So all in all, adding 5 minuts to a commute for some people isn't going to be a deal-changer in the overall puzzle.

Based on what you said, if we could invent a time machine, people here might push for the school zone to have been created differently 20 years ago. And it sounds like there are a lot of people here who would favor looking at ES boundaries but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. So this is where we are.

I agree ES should be changed. I’m one of the closest Wayside to Churchill and the difference is more like 10-15 mins in rush hour one way.

Additionally Wootton is in horrible shape being 55 years old. Renovations should have been approved as early as 2008 for 2018 completion but it’s been delayed since then at least until 2032-2033. That’s insane! Crown should be used by Wootton or Magruder for a full renovation. The crowding at all of these schools is nothing compared to that of WJ and I think Wheaton/blair

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moving Wayside out of Churchill helps with utilization. How else will they get Churchill below 100%?

It’s a BS utilization at Churchill. They’ve reduced capacity by 100 seats from when it first opened. What happened did the school shrink? Churchill has just had a period of a few years with higher enrollment which was consistently in lower figures and never had a portable until a year or two I believe. Kids there have stated it’s not crowded aside from the portable there’s no evidence to that.

Churchill parent here. There's no problem with Churchill being overcapacity. Yes, there are a couple of portables and I'm sure those teachers aren't excited about them. But I've never felt Churchill had too many kids generally. It's not hurting education or the social environment. And there's not much new construction in this area, so I wouldn't expect the problem to become worse in the next decade.

I have always wondered, though, why there are kids sooo far west that come to Churchill. Those are largely Wayside kids, and some Potomac kids. So yes, to drive from Wayside ES to Wootton HS, it may be about the same distance as going to from Wayside ES to Churchill HS. But a huge part of that geography is far closer to Wootton than to Churchill. Same with the Northern part of the Potomac ES boundaries. The culprit is that they're not looking at ES boundaries. I'd be interested in knowing the *average* student's bus time to both high schools-- there is certainly some house that is closer to Churchill and some house that is closer to Wootton. In sum, I think, capacity-wise, it would be fine for Wayside to continue to go to Churchill. But I think the quality of life for the average Wayside kid might improve by going to the closer school.

Wayside families definitely closer to Churchill for the most part. For us, it is 3 miles more to Wootton than to Churchill and an additional 10 minutes (give or take) round trip. Not horrible but doesn't make sense.

The Wayside families that should never been zoned to Wayside in the first place are in the Potomac Glen area. There are three other elementary schools closer to that neighborhood, namely Lakewood, Stone Mill, and Travilah. Why they were ever zoned for Wayside/Churchill is bizarre, but from what I understand the contractor that built that development had some connections with Montgomery County politicians who made it happen. That is the only area that should be rezoned to Wootton and to the appropriate elementary school. The rest of Wayside belongs at Churchill.

But they're not changing ES boundaries. And ES split articulation to different middle schools sounds terrible. And you're citing a 5 minute increase (one way) for part of the school zone to go to Wootton where another part of the school zone would probably save 2 or 3 times that by going to Wootton. And MCPS is trying to put together a big jigsaw puzzle in which not every household will benefit, but the overall system is better. So all in all, adding 5 minuts to a commute for some people isn't going to be a deal-changer in the overall puzzle.

Based on what you said, if we could invent a time machine, people here might push for the school zone to have been created differently 20 years ago. And it sounds like there are a lot of people here who would favor looking at ES boundaries but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. So this is where we are.

Why is ES split articulation so bad? As someone who went to a MS and then split that wasn’t ideal, but at least I gained about 60-70 peers in MS to join my ES cohort to HS. However we were def lopsided as my MS was like 120 strong out of 450-500 total 9th grade.

I feel like if say an ES consists of on average 70 kids per graduating class, if about 30-40 were split to two different middle schools, that’s not the end of the world. At that age ALL of the kids in a MS are coming together from small cohorts. So a MS class of 300-400 could consist of 4-6 groups of 30-100 kids. So the 30-40 split could be very similar to another 40-50 from ES #2 and another 60-70 from ES #3 and another 100 from ES #4 for example.

If those kids do NOT split again for HS that gives 7 years together grades 6-12 which is a year more than time together in ES and often times kids are closest with those from those later years.

Worse would be a tiny split (less than 25 kids for example) from an ES to MS, even worse would be then splitting both ES to MS and MS to HS. Worst of all would be going together to MS but then a subset of an ES splitting as a tiny portion of a MS to HS. For example 100 ES kids go to MS with a total of 400 kids. If 50 of those ES kids by themselves go to HS while the other 350 go to HS thats awful. Peer groups are super formed by HS though def changed for me and others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:RPES parent here. I don't care if we go to Wootton or RM, I just don't want Option 2 (where my kids would get split articulated twice).

As someone who went through one split, that’s fine but two splits is awful! Also a split from ES to MS is far easier than MS to HS due to 3-6 smaller groups coming together for MS vs 1 or 2 large groups coming together for HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moving Wayside out of Churchill helps with utilization. How else will they get Churchill below 100%?

It’s a BS utilization at Churchill. They’ve reduced capacity by 100 seats from when it first opened. What happened did the school shrink? Churchill has just had a period of a few years with higher enrollment which was consistently in lower figures and never had a portable until a year or two I believe. Kids there have stated it’s not crowded aside from the portable there’s no evidence to that.

Churchill parent here. There's no problem with Churchill being overcapacity. Yes, there are a couple of portables and I'm sure those teachers aren't excited about them. But I've never felt Churchill had too many kids generally. It's not hurting education or the social environment. And there's not much new construction in this area, so I wouldn't expect the problem to become worse in the next decade.

I have always wondered, though, why there are kids sooo far west that come to Churchill. Those are largely Wayside kids, and some Potomac kids. So yes, to drive from Wayside ES to Wootton HS, it may be about the same distance as going to from Wayside ES to Churchill HS. But a huge part of that geography is far closer to Wootton than to Churchill. Same with the Northern part of the Potomac ES boundaries. The culprit is that they're not looking at ES boundaries. I'd be interested in knowing the *average* student's bus time to both high schools-- there is certainly some house that is closer to Churchill and some house that is closer to Wootton. In sum, I think, capacity-wise, it would be fine for Wayside to continue to go to Churchill. But I think the quality of life for the average Wayside kid might improve by going to the closer school.

Wayside families definitely closer to Churchill for the most part. For us, it is 3 miles more to Wootton than to Churchill and an additional 10 minutes (give or take) round trip. Not horrible but doesn't make sense.

The Wayside families that should never been zoned to Wayside in the first place are in the Potomac Glen area. There are three other elementary schools closer to that neighborhood, namely Lakewood, Stone Mill, and Travilah. Why they were ever zoned for Wayside/Churchill is bizarre, but from what I understand the contractor that built that development had some connections with Montgomery County politicians who made it happen. That is the only area that should be rezoned to Wootton and to the appropriate elementary school. The rest of Wayside belongs at Churchill.

But they're not changing ES boundaries. And ES split articulation to different middle schools sounds terrible. And you're citing a 5 minute increase (one way) for part of the school zone to go to Wootton where another part of the school zone would probably save 2 or 3 times that by going to Wootton. And MCPS is trying to put together a big jigsaw puzzle in which not every household will benefit, but the overall system is better. So all in all, adding 5 minuts to a commute for some people isn't going to be a deal-changer in the overall puzzle.

Based on what you said, if we could invent a time machine, people here might push for the school zone to have been created differently 20 years ago. And it sounds like there are a lot of people here who would favor looking at ES boundaries but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. So this is where we are.

Why is ES split articulation so bad? As someone who went to a MS and then split that wasn’t ideal, but at least I gained about 60-70 peers in MS to join my ES cohort to HS. However we were def lopsided as my MS was like 120 strong out of 450-500 total 9th grade.

I feel like if say an ES consists of on average 70 kids per graduating class, if about 30-40 were split to two different middle schools, that’s not the end of the world. At that age ALL of the kids in a MS are coming together from small cohorts. So a MS class of 300-400 could consist of 4-6 groups of 30-100 kids. So the 30-40 split could be very similar to another 40-50 from ES #2 and another 60-70 from ES #3 and another 100 from ES #4 for example.

If those kids do NOT split again for HS that gives 7 years together grades 6-12 which is a year more than time together in ES and often times kids are closest with those from those later years.

Worse would be a tiny split (less than 25 kids for example) from an ES to MS, even worse would be then splitting both ES to MS and MS to HS. Worst of all would be going together to MS but then a subset of an ES splitting as a tiny portion of a MS to HS. For example 100 ES kids go to MS with a total of 400 kids. If 50 of those ES kids by themselves go to HS while the other 350 go to HS thats awful. Peer groups are super formed by HS though def changed for me and others.

Please read the comment where option 2 takes 30 kids from RPES and puts them together with 300 more at CJMS and then removes them from the ENTIRE SET OF THOSE 300 only to join with 470 new students at RMHS. These kids would have to lose half their freinds when they go to middle school and then 90% of those friends again when they go to high school, only go to to a school where the other kids know 94% of each other and have been together for 9 years!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RPES parent here. I don't care if we go to Wootton or RM, I just don't want Option 2 (where my kids would get split articulated twice).

Are you talking about FG? They would go to RPES, Frost MS then Wootton. So it's just one split (RPES to Frost). Frost going to Wootton is not split.

oops I see that FG would go to crown HS. Yea, you are right. That is insane.

So a double split? If so yes insane! Your first comment with one split not a huge concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RPES parent here. I don't care if we go to Wootton or RM, I just don't want Option 2 (where my kids would get split articulated twice).

Are you talking about FG? They would go to RPES, Frost MS then Wootton. So it's just one split (RPES to Frost). Frost going to Wootton is not split.

Under option 2, the rest of RPES (NOT FG) would go to CJMS (split 1 from fallsgrove) and then RMHS (split 2)

Yes double split is bad! Is this what they mean by wanting to avoid triple split? Or is there something even worse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Growing up in the 80's alot of the elementary schools had split articulations. Lake Normandy split between Hoover and CJ, Georgetown Hill also split between Hoover and CJ. I guess the only difference was that we all met up in HS at Churchill. I don't remember it being a big deal.

It’s not from ES to MS so long as not split again for HS. And ideally the ES cohorts split have at least 35-40% of the ES so 65/35 of 60/40 vs 80/20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RPES parent here. I don't care if we go to Wootton or RM, I just don't want Option 2 (where my kids would get split articulated twice).

Are you talking about FG? They would go to RPES, Frost MS then Wootton. So it's just one split (RPES to Frost). Frost going to Wootton is not split.

Under option 2, the rest of RPES (NOT FG) would go to CJMS (split 1 from fallsgrove) and then RMHS (split 2)

Yep -- and the double split for the "Not FG RPES" is even worse because those 30 "Not FG RPES" kids would be the only ones at CJMS to go to RMHS.

As the prior poster about splits this is the horror scenario with splits. Double split with under 30% (in this case 10%) going to a new HS (sounds like not rejoining their ES friends).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RPES parent here. I don't care if we go to Wootton or RM, I just don't want Option 2 (where my kids would get split articulated twice).

Are you talking about FG? They would go to RPES, Frost MS then Wootton. So it's just one split (RPES to Frost). Frost going to Wootton is not split.

Under option 2, the rest of RPES (NOT FG) would go to CJMS (split 1 from fallsgrove) and then RMHS (split 2)

Yep -- and the double split for the "Not FG RPES" is even worse because those 30 "Not FG RPES" kids would be the only ones at CJMS to go to RMHS.

That's the general message. Kids at RPES will be split into two groups after 5th grade. The southern branch of 30 kids will join 300 in their grade at CJMS only to lose the same 300 and join a DIFFERENT 470 students in their grade at RMHS.

Yes awful on both accounts being one of 30 out of 330 and then one of 30 out of 500 is insanity!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:RPES parent here. I don't care if we go to Wootton or RM, I just don't want Option 2 (where my kids would get split articulated twice).

Are you talking about FG? They would go to RPES, Frost MS then Wootton. So it's just one split (RPES to Frost). Frost going to Wootton is not split.

Under option 2, the rest of RPES (NOT FG) would go to CJMS (split 1 from fallsgrove) and then RMHS (split 2)

Yep -- and the double split for the "Not FG RPES" is even worse because those 30 "Not FG RPES" kids would be the only ones at CJMS to go to RMHS.

As the prior poster about splits this is the horror scenario with splits. Double split with under 30% (in this case 10%) going to a new HS (sounds like not rejoining their ES friends).

Correct. The FG RPES kids would not be at RMHS in Option 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Growing up in the 80's alot of the elementary schools had split articulations. Lake Normandy split between Hoover and CJ, Georgetown Hill also split between Hoover and CJ. I guess the only difference was that we all met up in HS at Churchill. I don't remember it being a big deal.

It’s not from ES to MS so long as not split again for HS. And ideally the ES cohorts split have at least 35-40% of the ES so 65/35 of 60/40 vs 80/20.

There should be a cohort check of some kind at MS and then HS when doing a split:

If a split from ES results in a cohort being less than 20% of the MS grade, we reject the split.
If a split from MS results in a cohort being less than 15% of the HS grade, we reject the split.
If any articulation is allowed that violates one of these, it must be for a very good reason.
If any articulation is allowed that violates two of these, the entire BoE must resign.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Suddenly, I feel like QO high school is shining great among all 4 options. It is within walking distance, no busing and kids stay together from ES/MS.

Great as long as you are not in Kentlands.

why

Busing the Kentlands to Gaithersburg or Crown is just absurd. Not that I’m not enjoying the maga there whose tiny racist brain cells are exploding about these new boundaries but because they are fiscally irresponsible of the county and stupid. Kentlands walks to QO there is no reality sending them to the other HS makes sense logistically or fiscally.

As for Dufief yes

As for Stonemill out of W again no because W is already under enrolled. And the mapping logic makes no sense either.

They will do the worst possible senerio people get ready for major bussing.

You realize parts of dufief, stone mill and Travilah of basically equidistant to Wootton? And Dufief has maybe 35 kids per grade TOTAL. Dufief is part of the Wootton community, has been since forever. They don’t want to move schools. Moving them doesn’t help anything. Wootton is under enrolled, as you said. Just leave dufief alone.

How about just leaving Wootton alone. Why does MCPS create 4 options just to generate fights between different ES within Wootton? That’s pure evil and community dividing. Crown is built to alleviate overcrowding of other schools and Wootton is not overcrowded. None of the four options change diversity of any school so just leave Wootton alone. Don’t make the poorer neighborhoods in Wootton to pay the price just to satisfy this diversity game.

I am PP of above- yes, totally agree. Leave Wootton alone. But they won’t.

Everyone supporting leaving Wootton alone, I stand with you as I went to CJMS/WCHS but had so many friends go to Wootton.

Anyway as a resident of Wayside now who is across the street from the proposed border, I want to stay at WCHS.

Wootton folks, if you can sign this petition it can’t hurt your case the less likely they are to shift Churchill to Wootton the less likely they are to shift schools from Wootton to elsewhere.

https://chng.it/SNLndcftLR

I will not be signing that. You guys are nothing but a bunch of Karens. You talk about your “community” as if you’re an indigenous tribe or something. Your kids will be fine and will attend a less crowded school, which directly helps all the concerns listed on the petition.

Nah, this Karen is sending her kids to private. I've had enough of this baloney.

You'll never look back!!