Tell me about Alexandria and South Arlington Schools

[Anonymous]

I currently live in ffx county. Love where I live and commute etc. we are considering a move to city of Alexandria (first choice) or south Arlington county. Main reason we are moving is we need more space. Moving into those areas means we would be closer to family, would save about 15 miles each way taking the kids to grandparents (gp watch them while we both work) . Schools in our current area are good, not great and even if I stay put I may consider private ( for small class sizes). The only reason not to move to those areas is my concern for schools. Budget is pretty specific and limited i.e. I can't afford north Arlington

Tell me how great or not great the schools in Alex and south Arlington are.

[Anonymous]

high school? Middle? Elementary?

[Anonymous]

OP, you will see on this board any number of highly negative comments re the Alexandria schools (ACPS typically refers to Alexandria, and APS to Arlington). We're ACPS parents and we believe the comments are generally malicious nonsense; we like ACPS a great deal. Pls specify the grade level(s) and people can offer thoughts about particular schools.

[Anonymous]

I don't know anything about Alexandria schools, but my family and I are in south Arlington. The main issue I see is that there are some real disparities in the socioeconomic make-up of school populations. The curriculum and staff are, largely, the same as in north Arlington. But your PTA may not be able to raise as much money for the extras. Field trips may not be as frequent or as diverse. Same goes for after school enrichment offerings; they vary widely depending on the resources (money and parent volunteers) the PTA can commit. Same issue for clubs, and all the things that Title 1 money can't be used for. If you're involved parents who can provide enrichment outside of the classroom, a lot of this won't matter to your child's education. And your child will have academic peers at any school. The kids who are really being hurt by the lack of socioeconomic diversity are the ones who are already at a disadvantage. South Arlington is also developing rather quickly, and as more young families of means move in and put down roots, the schools are changing, too. Depending on the school, you may have the best of both worlds at this point in time. My child is being exposed to diverse cultures, languages, and perspectives on life, and is being taught by some of the best teachers in the region, with small class sizes, and excellent facilities (APS budget is not in danger of being cut, unlike FFX). And the other parents in our (higher) SES demographic in our neighborhood and school are accepting, not hyper-competitive or snobbish people, which I have observed is less common the farther north of 50 you go in Arlington. This is a generalization; there are exceptions to this observation on both sides of 50 who are happy to prove me wrong. Are you targeting particular neighborhoods or schools?

[Anonymous]

if you're ok with diversity in schools then there's nothing uniquely bad about s arl. not gonna be great (you get what you paid for), but not bad either.

[Anonymous]

If you're in central or western Fairfax now you're likely zoned for much better schools than in Alexandria or South Arlington, which have some of the worst schools in NoVa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:if you're ok with diversity in schools then there's nothing uniquely bad about s arl. not gonna be great (you get what you paid for), but not bad either.

Just to clarify, you paid more specifically because you're not okay with diversity? There's a word for this, let me see if I can think of it . . .

[Anonymous]

OP here. Interested in elem schools. I'm not afraid of diversity or FARMS ( I was a FARM kid myself) but I also understand the problems that FARMS kids face, and that can be varying degrees (don't want to get into a FARM debate). More interested in quality of teachers, class sizes, nurturing environment etc. I know schools can't provide everything for my kids, but id like them to have a positive experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you will see on this board any number of highly negative comments re the Alexandria schools (ACPS typically refers to Alexandria, and APS to Arlington). We're ACPS parents and we believe the comments are generally malicious nonsense; we like ACPS a great deal. Pls specify the grade level(s) and people can offer thoughts about particular schools.

Except the numbers don't lie.

ACPS schools for a number of years have been some of the worst performing schools in the state. There are a handful of elementary schools that are OK (but pale in comparison to Arlington and Fairfax when it comes to most metrics, including many beyond testing). The middle schools were unaccredited for many years. And TC Williams was literally the second-worst school in Virginia just a few years ago and received the Persistent Least Achieving School tag. These are just facts. And when you talk to policymakers in Alexandria, they will acknowledge it and blame the high levels of poverty in the schools. And, yes, the presence of poverty is highly correlated with underachievement and other problems such as discipline, students with no parental support, high levels of foreign language and teaching to the least common denominator. You also see a heavily bifurcated system where the upper middle class white families that "tough it out" have a very different experience than others, hence the "Yale or Jail" tag on TC Williams. You also have staunch defenders, although many of them have literally known no other school system, so they don't have anything to compare.

The big question now is what trajectory is ACPS on? Are the schools improving? Perhaps -- I'm hearing encouraging things about GW Middle School and TC, for example. But given the system's recent history of unsubstantiated bluster about improvements, it's hard to tell whether it's true. I think it is -- but I also think perceptions are lagging.

South Arlington schools have similar issues. On the plus side, there's a lot diversity. I was in Randolph recently and counted students from 12 countries depicted on a wall of "About me" projects written in Spanish (for a FLES class, I assume). They included Ethiopia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Honduras, Eritrea, Mexico, Peru, El Salvador, Jordan, Iraq, India, Bangladesh and several others. There were 7 children out of about 50 on the wall that hailed from the United States. That was fascinating to me. I think language issues are probably more prominent in some of the South Arlington schools as poverty.

Arlington in general also has better enrichment programming than some Alexandria schools. School plays and robust music programs, for example. FLES in elementary schools, as I mentioned. Fairfax has the AAP program -- Alexandria's gifted program seems like it's always mired in controversy over racial representation, and Arlington just doesn't really give a crap about gifted since its students by and large perform at a really high level. Arlington has more facilities than Alexandria -- more fields, more pools, more libraries, etc. etc. So, all things to think about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if you're ok with diversity in schools then there's nothing uniquely bad about s arl. not gonna be great (you get what you paid for), but not bad either.

Just to clarify, you paid more specifically because you're not okay with diversity? There's a word for this, let me see if I can think of it . . .

What word is that, pp?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know anything about Alexandria schools, but my family and I are in south Arlington. The main issue I see is that there are some real disparities in the socioeconomic make-up of school populations. The curriculum and staff are, largely, the same as in north Arlington. But your PTA may not be able to raise as much money for the extras. Field trips may not be as frequent or as diverse. Same goes for after school enrichment offerings; they vary widely depending on the resources (money and parent volunteers) the PTA can commit. Same issue for clubs, and all the things that Title 1 money can't be used for. If you're involved parents who can provide enrichment outside of the classroom, a lot of this won't matter to your child's education. And your child will have academic peers at any school. The kids who are really being hurt by the lack of socioeconomic diversity are the ones who are already at a disadvantage. South Arlington is also developing rather quickly, and as more young families of means move in and put down roots, the schools are changing, too. Depending on the school, you may have the best of both worlds at this point in time. My child is being exposed to diverse cultures, languages, and perspectives on life, and is being taught by some of the best teachers in the region, with small class sizes, and excellent facilities (APS budget is not in danger of being cut, unlike FFX). And the other parents in our (higher) SES demographic in our neighborhood and school are accepting, not hyper-competitive or snobbish people, which I have observed is less common the farther north of 50 you go in Arlington. This is a generalization; there are exceptions to this observation on both sides of 50 who are happy to prove me wrong. Are you targeting particular neighborhoods or schools?

N. Arlington parent and APS teacher here. I think this is an excellent synopsis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you will see on this board any number of highly negative comments re the Alexandria schools (ACPS typically refers to Alexandria, and APS to Arlington). We're ACPS parents and we believe the comments are generally malicious nonsense; we like ACPS a great deal. Pls specify the grade level(s) and people can offer thoughts about particular schools.

Alexandria City ACPS parent here. It's not malicious gossip, it's honest reality. There are good to great points within ACPS, and then there are abject failures of the system. That said, the trend line is one of improvement overall within the last five years a)academics b) social c) some greater teacher support. Still bloated at the top w.r.t bossy and highly paid administration: many wish they'd give the teachers more authority and pay instead. The School Board keeps gloating about how ACPS is growing. Is that necessarily a good thing in a system known even recently for great academic struggles as a PP said? Many Alexandrians wish the Board would be more honest how they are going to address the City need for improved academics systemically: in the end that is what you get rated on and rightly so. Pretty and expensive new schools are coming. Pity our City if those in charge cherish them over the bigger need: concentrated focus on all grade improvement in education and social integration. I've always felt do well with those you teach, don't wish for more than you can handle. Alexandria needs to think what an appropriate percentage of ESL and FARM students is sustainable. If we are honest, high levels will continue to keep ACPS as a school with non-enviable reputation. Our City (150,000) is small compared to Fairfax and Arlington Counties and our residential taxpayer base is smaller and is being very strained with educational costs for a 14,500 school system. Most of our tax money goes to public education where the well is deep.

OP: most elementary schools are fine. Some aspects of middle school are coming around. TCWHS is great for the able minded, but rough on the edges for many.

[Anonymous]

PP. Boasting about ACPS "growing" is the sort of unsubstantiated bluster I was talking about.

ALL systems in NoVA are growing. That's a factor of population growth in general. That ACPS has more students is not a indicator the desirability of the schools. If you don't understand what I mean -- you don't see APS and FFX crowing about population growth -- you see them lamenting it and freaking out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP. Boasting about ACPS "growing" is the sort of unsubstantiated bluster I was talking about.

ALL systems in NoVA are growing. That's a factor of population growth in general. That ACPS has more students is not a indicator the desirability of the schools. If you don't understand what I mean -- you don't see APS and FFX crowing about population growth -- you see them lamenting it and freaking out.

No it's not bluster. Our School Board chair boosts about how ACPS is growing at each school board meeting, but never in the same statement does she reassure the community that the system is capable of doing well by these new students nor those already enrolled. That's a shockingly vacant attitude given ACPS past and recent history and where it remains on VDOE ranking system, and one worth great thought.

Yes, local jurisdictions are growing too. Why don't you go read the recent Montgomery County tax hike thread, PP, and see how many decent hard working citizens feel about influx due to sanctuary city status and even, is it possible, the seemingly endless democratic invite for more. In Alexandria City it's clear: our residential tax base is stretched currently on ACPS support at expense of other basic general fund citizen expenses. Someone wins, others loose. Furthermore, if Alexandria City truly wants to grow it's tax base through new and large amounts of serious Businesses, it isn't the number of students in ACPS that counts (and will come to the table in business negotiations), it's the academic quality of ACPS. So far as I and many others see it, we loose on that point.

[Anonymous]

^^ "boasts" not "boosts". sorry, auto correct.