Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
They can split-articulate Woodlin using the railroad tracks, or 16th St, or Georgia as the dividing line. Send the western section to BCC.
And a Forest Glen parent is heard from. You are never going to BCC. Any people who buy the silver spring is great cool-aid. Look at actual silver spring residents who think (irrationally mind you) for one sec that they have a shot of being rezoned out. Where are they begging to go? It really tells you all you need to know about what they really think about the schools and communities that feed them.
Obviously, a bunch of Silver Spring families send their kids to private schools. Funnily enough, a bunch of Bethesda and Potomac families also send their kids to private schools. There are also a lot of Silver Spring/Wheaton families that are very happy with their zoned schools. Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school. My family is not zoned for Woodlin, so I have no skin in this game, but Woodlin is pretty far from Einstein already. It makes perfect sense to rezone them from an overcrowded school that is far away to a not overcrowded school that is only slightly further away. Who cares whose "wet dream" (ew, why?) this is? The houses in that area are so expensive that those families will likely still be considering private.
"Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school"
Exactly. The boundary analysis showed that most people in the county want to stay put. They don't even want to move to a closer school. They prefer stability.
Anonymous wrote:I wonder why the Einstein parents worried about overcrowding and proximity aren't also floating Northwood as an option? It’s like those aren’t their only concerns
Everyone assumes Northwood's seats will be used to address (somewhat) Blair's overcrowding.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
Or just leave it in Einstein, Woodward isn’t going to be that disruptive. Funny part is despite dreams to the contrary. The most likely outcome will be that Einstein loses some of the middle class Kensington kids and and the Woodside parents are further entrenched as the SES anchor while the school fades poorer.
SES = socioeconomic status. Everyone has one.
yah but they are all not equal. Everybody knows what was stated
there
Yes, that's true. What was stated there was: "I am afraid of poor people, and I assume everyone else is too - not including poor people, whom I don't consider people."
I’m not the one doing logic gymnastics to justify going to a richer school in a way that won’t let their real distastes show. I have no problem with poor people. I vote to leave all the inside the beltway parts zoned for Einstein and maintain the diversity.
Evidently you are, because nobody else has done it on this thread. You are making up opinions, then ascribing your made-up opinions to people who have not actually expressed these opinions. An entertaining hobby, no doubt.
I grew up here and went to Einstein. Woodside and Forest Glen parents have been making thinly vailed rationalizations to justify being zoned to BCC for longer than many of you have been walking and talking. Please excuse me for not believing the authenticity of this most recent crop.
I guess I’m wrong that they’re opportunistically looking at the rezoning to advance their agenda. I’m sure you’re right and this crop of parents has no commonality to the previous 40 years before them even though their words are exactly verbatim, same for same. Silly me for questioning the altruistic values of such a selfless group
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
Or just leave it in Einstein, Woodward isn’t going to be that disruptive. Funny part is despite dreams to the contrary. The most likely outcome will be that Einstein loses some of the middle class Kensington kids and and the Woodside parents are further entrenched as the SES anchor while the school fades poorer.
SES = socioeconomic status. Everyone has one.
yah but they are all not equal. Everybody knows what was stated
there
Yes, that's true. What was stated there was: "I am afraid of poor people, and I assume everyone else is too - not including poor people, whom I don't consider people."
I’m not the one doing logic gymnastics to justify going to a richer school in a way that won’t let their real distastes show. I have no problem with poor people. I vote to leave all the inside the beltway parts zoned for Einstein and maintain the diversity.
Evidently you are, because nobody else has done it on this thread. You are making up opinions, then ascribing your made-up opinions to people who have not actually expressed these opinions. An entertaining hobby, no doubt.
I grew up here and went to Einstein. Woodside and Forest Glen parents have been making thinly vailed rationalizations to justify being zoned to BCC for longer than many of you have been walking and talking. Please excuse me for not believing the authenticity of this most recent crop.
I guess I’m wrong that they’re opportunistically looking at the rezoning to advance their agenda. I’m sure you’re right and this crop of parents has no commonality to the previous 40 years before them even though their words are exactly verbatim, same for same. Silly me for questioning the altruistic values of such a selfless group
Maybe you can discuss this with the other PP who keeps asserting that the districtwide boundary analysis showed that everybody wants to stay at the school they're currently zoned for.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
They can split-articulate Woodlin using the railroad tracks, or 16th St, or Georgia as the dividing line. Send the western section to BCC.
And a Forest Glen parent is heard from. You are never going to BCC. Any people who buy the silver spring is great cool-aid. Look at actual silver spring residents who think (irrationally mind you) for one sec that they have a shot of being rezoned out. Where are they begging to go? It really tells you all you need to know about what they really think about the schools and communities that feed them.
Obviously, a bunch of Silver Spring families send their kids to private schools. Funnily enough, a bunch of Bethesda and Potomac families also send their kids to private schools. There are also a lot of Silver Spring/Wheaton families that are very happy with their zoned schools. Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school. My family is not zoned for Woodlin, so I have no skin in this game, but Woodlin is pretty far from Einstein already. It makes perfect sense to rezone them from an overcrowded school that is far away to a not overcrowded school that is only slightly further away. Who cares whose "wet dream" (ew, why?) this is? The houses in that area are so expensive that those families will likely still be considering private.
"Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school"
Exactly. The boundary analysis showed that most people in the county want to stay put. They don't even want to move to a closer school. They prefer stability.
Then they should be willing to pay more in taxes because "stability" for everyone means it's a lot more difficult and expensive to address overcrowding.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
Or just leave it in Einstein, Woodward isn’t going to be that disruptive. Funny part is despite dreams to the contrary. The most likely outcome will be that Einstein loses some of the middle class Kensington kids and and the Woodside parents are further entrenched as the SES anchor while the school fades poorer.
SES = socioeconomic status. Everyone has one.
yah but they are all not equal. Everybody knows what was stated
there
Yes, that's true. What was stated there was: "I am afraid of poor people, and I assume everyone else is too - not including poor people, whom I don't consider people."
I’m not the one doing logic gymnastics to justify going to a richer school in a way that won’t let their real distastes show. I have no problem with poor people. I vote to leave all the inside the beltway parts zoned for Einstein and maintain the diversity.
Evidently you are, because nobody else has done it on this thread. You are making up opinions, then ascribing your made-up opinions to people who have not actually expressed these opinions. An entertaining hobby, no doubt.
I grew up here and went to Einstein. Woodside and Forest Glen parents have been making thinly vailed rationalizations to justify being zoned to BCC for longer than many of you have been walking and talking. Please excuse me for not believing the authenticity of this most recent crop.
I guess I’m wrong that they’re opportunistically looking at the rezoning to advance their agenda. I’m sure you’re right and this crop of parents has no commonality to the previous 40 years before them even though their words are exactly verbatim, same for same. Silly me for questioning the altruistic values of such a selfless group
I'm one of the PPs suggesting moving Woodlin to BCC. We don't live in Woodside or Forest Glen. We're zoned for Einstein and want to stay there, though would be fine with being rezoned to Wheaton.
There are multiple factors to be considered in the boundary study. These include capacity, diversity and stability. You can't address the first two without temporarily making things unstable for some families. Moving Woodlin to BCC is a key part of the only option to address both of the first two factors.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
Or just leave it in Einstein, Woodward isn’t going to be that disruptive. Funny part is despite dreams to the contrary. The most likely outcome will be that Einstein loses some of the middle class Kensington kids and and the Woodside parents are further entrenched as the SES anchor while the school fades poorer.
SES = socioeconomic status. Everyone has one.
yah but they are all not equal. Everybody knows what was stated
there
Yes, that's true. What was stated there was: "I am afraid of poor people, and I assume everyone else is too - not including poor people, whom I don't consider people."
I’m not the one doing logic gymnastics to justify going to a richer school in a way that won’t let their real distastes show. I have no problem with poor people. I vote to leave all the inside the beltway parts zoned for Einstein and maintain the diversity.
Evidently you are, because nobody else has done it on this thread. You are making up opinions, then ascribing your made-up opinions to people who have not actually expressed these opinions. An entertaining hobby, no doubt.
I grew up here and went to Einstein. Woodside and Forest Glen parents have been making thinly vailed rationalizations to justify being zoned to BCC for longer than many of you have been walking and talking. Please excuse me for not believing the authenticity of this most recent crop.
I guess I’m wrong that they’re opportunistically looking at the rezoning to advance their agenda. I’m sure you’re right and this crop of parents has no commonality to the previous 40 years before them even though their words are exactly verbatim, same for same. Silly me for questioning the altruistic values of such a selfless group
I'm one of the PPs suggesting moving Woodlin to BCC. We don't live in Woodside or Forest Glen. We're zoned for Einstein and want to stay there, though would be fine with being rezoned to Wheaton.
There are multiple factors to be considered in the boundary study. These include capacity, diversity and stability. You can't address the first two without temporarily making things unstable for some families. Moving Woodlin to BCC is a key part of the only option to address both of the first two factors.
Sure you’re. The argument could be simplified that any rezoning could relieve crowding but yet you pick the richest elementary to go to one of the richest high schools leaving one of the poorer ones. You’re either oblivious to optics or willing to argue self interest despite recent trends and communal best interests. Moving Woodside was a bridge too far back when handshake deals were the norm to “protect” neighborhoods. To think it stands a chance with modern visibility is just ignorant, naïve or both.
Keep on with your
I’m not racist I’m just arguing for the exact same thing racists wanted for the last many decades……but for completely reasons
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
Or just leave it in Einstein, Woodward isn’t going to be that disruptive. Funny part is despite dreams to the contrary. The most likely outcome will be that Einstein loses some of the middle class Kensington kids and and the Woodside parents are further entrenched as the SES anchor while the school fades poorer.
SES = socioeconomic status. Everyone has one.
yah but they are all not equal. Everybody knows what was stated
there
Yes, that's true. What was stated there was: "I am afraid of poor people, and I assume everyone else is too - not including poor people, whom I don't consider people."
I’m not the one doing logic gymnastics to justify going to a richer school in a way that won’t let their real distastes show. I have no problem with poor people. I vote to leave all the inside the beltway parts zoned for Einstein and maintain the diversity.
Evidently you are, because nobody else has done it on this thread. You are making up opinions, then ascribing your made-up opinions to people who have not actually expressed these opinions. An entertaining hobby, no doubt.
I grew up here and went to Einstein. Woodside and Forest Glen parents have been making thinly vailed rationalizations to justify being zoned to BCC for longer than many of you have been walking and talking. Please excuse me for not believing the authenticity of this most recent crop.
I guess I’m wrong that they’re opportunistically looking at the rezoning to advance their agenda. I’m sure you’re right and this crop of parents has no commonality to the previous 40 years before them even though their words are exactly verbatim, same for same. Silly me for questioning the altruistic values of such a selfless group
I'm one of the PPs suggesting moving Woodlin to BCC. We don't live in Woodside or Forest Glen. We're zoned for Einstein and want to stay there, though would be fine with being rezoned to Wheaton.
There are multiple factors to be considered in the boundary study. These include capacity, diversity and stability. You can't address the first two without temporarily making things unstable for some families. Moving Woodlin to BCC is a key part of the only option to address both of the first two factors.
Sure you’re. The argument could be simplified that any rezoning could relieve crowding but yet you pick the richest elementary to go to one of the richest high schools leaving one of the poorer ones. You’re either oblivious to optics or willing to argue self interest despite recent trends and communal best interests. Moving Woodside was a bridge too far back when handshake deals were the norm to “protect” neighborhoods. To think it stands a chance with modern visibility is just ignorant, naïve or both.
Keep on with your
I’m not racist I’m just arguing for the exact same thing racists wanted for the last many decades……but for completely reasons
I don't think you realize how incoherent you sound. You haven't rebutted any of my actual arguments, because you have no rebuttal. We are zoned for Oakland Terrace. Can't afford to live in Woodside.
Anonymous wrote:I wonder why the Einstein parents worried about overcrowding and proximity aren't also floating Northwood as an option? It’s like those aren’t their only concerns
Because that doesn't relieve the general DCC overcrowding that would remain, on average, worse than the schools to the west even after the Northwood expansion & Woodward reopening.
The better solution is/would have been to have a HS inside the beltway in the SS/TP area. Since they didn't choose to do that, it's incumbent on them to find an alternate way to ensure reasonably equal facilities, including capacity, conditions and programs supported, are available to all students, regardless of zip code.
Anonymous wrote:The better solution is/would have been to have a HS inside the beltway in the SS/TP area. Since they didn't choose to do that, it's incumbent on them to find an alternate way to ensure reasonably equal facilities, including capacity, conditions and programs supported, are available to all students, regardless of zip code.
+1. And they have already split up the inside the beltway SS/TP areas between BCC, Einstein, Northwood, and Blair, and there's no reason that won't continue. Einstein and Blair are overcrowded, so BCC and Northwood will take on additional neighborhoods.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
They can split-articulate Woodlin using the railroad tracks, or 16th St, or Georgia as the dividing line. Send the western section to BCC.
And a Forest Glen parent is heard from. You are never going to BCC. Any people who buy the silver spring is great cool-aid. Look at actual silver spring residents who think (irrationally mind you) for one sec that they have a shot of being rezoned out. Where are they begging to go? It really tells you all you need to know about what they really think about the schools and communities that feed them.
Obviously, a bunch of Silver Spring families send their kids to private schools. Funnily enough, a bunch of Bethesda and Potomac families also send their kids to private schools. There are also a lot of Silver Spring/Wheaton families that are very happy with their zoned schools. Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school. My family is not zoned for Woodlin, so I have no skin in this game, but Woodlin is pretty far from Einstein already. It makes perfect sense to rezone them from an overcrowded school that is far away to a not overcrowded school that is only slightly further away. Who cares whose "wet dream" (ew, why?) this is? The houses in that area are so expensive that those families will likely still be considering private.
"Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school"
Exactly. The boundary analysis showed that most people in the county want to stay put. They don't even want to move to a closer school. They prefer stability.
Then they should be willing to pay more in taxes because "stability" for everyone means it's a lot more difficult and expensive to address overcrowding.
They also valued close proximity. So most would be OK with their kids being moved to a closer school if it relieved overcrowding. What they rejected was being moved (any distance) for diversity reasons.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
Or just leave it in Einstein, Woodward isn’t going to be that disruptive. Funny part is despite dreams to the contrary. The most likely outcome will be that Einstein loses some of the middle class Kensington kids and and the Woodside parents are further entrenched as the SES anchor while the school fades poorer.
SES = socioeconomic status. Everyone has one.
yah but they are all not equal. Everybody knows what was stated
there
Yes, that's true. What was stated there was: "I am afraid of poor people, and I assume everyone else is too - not including poor people, whom I don't consider people."
I’m not the one doing logic gymnastics to justify going to a richer school in a way that won’t let their real distastes show. I have no problem with poor people. I vote to leave all the inside the beltway parts zoned for Einstein and maintain the diversity.
Evidently you are, because nobody else has done it on this thread. You are making up opinions, then ascribing your made-up opinions to people who have not actually expressed these opinions. An entertaining hobby, no doubt.
I grew up here and went to Einstein. Woodside and Forest Glen parents have been making thinly vailed rationalizations to justify being zoned to BCC for longer than many of you have been walking and talking. Please excuse me for not believing the authenticity of this most recent crop.
I guess I’m wrong that they’re opportunistically looking at the rezoning to advance their agenda. I’m sure you’re right and this crop of parents has no commonality to the previous 40 years before them even though their words are exactly verbatim, same for same. Silly me for questioning the altruistic values of such a selfless group
I'm one of the PPs suggesting moving Woodlin to BCC. We don't live in Woodside or Forest Glen. We're zoned for Einstein and want to stay there, though would be fine with being rezoned to Wheaton.
There are multiple factors to be considered in the boundary study. These include capacity, diversity and stability. You can't address the first two without temporarily making things unstable for some families. Moving Woodlin to BCC is a key part of the only option to address both of the first two factors.
Shush! A progressive is trying to help you. Pipe down and let them do what they fantasize is best for you so they can feel virtuous.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
They can split-articulate Woodlin using the railroad tracks, or 16th St, or Georgia as the dividing line. Send the western section to BCC.
And a Forest Glen parent is heard from. You are never going to BCC. Any people who buy the silver spring is great cool-aid. Look at actual silver spring residents who think (irrationally mind you) for one sec that they have a shot of being rezoned out. Where are they begging to go? It really tells you all you need to know about what they really think about the schools and communities that feed them.
Obviously, a bunch of Silver Spring families send their kids to private schools. Funnily enough, a bunch of Bethesda and Potomac families also send their kids to private schools. There are also a lot of Silver Spring/Wheaton families that are very happy with their zoned schools. Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school. My family is not zoned for Woodlin, so I have no skin in this game, but Woodlin is pretty far from Einstein already. It makes perfect sense to rezone them from an overcrowded school that is far away to a not overcrowded school that is only slightly further away. Who cares whose "wet dream" (ew, why?) this is? The houses in that area are so expensive that those families will likely still be considering private.
"Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school"
Exactly. The boundary analysis showed that most people in the county want to stay put. They don't even want to move to a closer school. They prefer stability.
Then they should be willing to pay more in taxes because "stability" for everyone means it's a lot more difficult and expensive to address overcrowding.
They also valued close proximity. So most would be OK with their kids being moved to a closer school if it relieved overcrowding. What they rejected was being moved (any distance) for diversity reasons.
What if a solution relieves overcrowding, improves proximity AND increases diversity? Is that extra bad?
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
The inside the beltway areas that feed to Einstein are the wealthiest and whitest. Taking them out of Einstein won’t happen.
There are no better options.
It has been a wetdream of Woodside parents to leave Einstein for decades. Funny how the people love silver spring until they think there is a chance to get zoned for a Bethesda school.
There is simply no way the justice warriors would sit quietly and allow the richest neighborhood in silver spring to defect to a Bethesda school. It would be similar in optics to the chevy chase parents getting their wet dream of moving Rosemary Hills out of BCC and back to silver spring. You can’t shout diversity until they get to your school and then scream crowding, everyone knows what you mean.
That's true but given the logistics and overcrowding it seems like a real option since BCC is probably a lot closer anyway.
They can split-articulate Woodlin using the railroad tracks, or 16th St, or Georgia as the dividing line. Send the western section to BCC.
And a Forest Glen parent is heard from. You are never going to BCC. Any people who buy the silver spring is great cool-aid. Look at actual silver spring residents who think (irrationally mind you) for one sec that they have a shot of being rezoned out. Where are they begging to go? It really tells you all you need to know about what they really think about the schools and communities that feed them.
Obviously, a bunch of Silver Spring families send their kids to private schools. Funnily enough, a bunch of Bethesda and Potomac families also send their kids to private schools. There are also a lot of Silver Spring/Wheaton families that are very happy with their zoned schools. Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school. My family is not zoned for Woodlin, so I have no skin in this game, but Woodlin is pretty far from Einstein already. It makes perfect sense to rezone them from an overcrowded school that is far away to a not overcrowded school that is only slightly further away. Who cares whose "wet dream" (ew, why?) this is? The houses in that area are so expensive that those families will likely still be considering private.
"Most of us have zero desire to be rezoned to a further school"
Exactly. The boundary analysis showed that most people in the county want to stay put. They don't even want to move to a closer school. They prefer stability.
Then they should be willing to pay more in taxes because "stability" for everyone means it's a lot more difficult and expensive to address overcrowding.
They also valued close proximity. So most would be OK with their kids being moved to a closer school if it relieved overcrowding. What they rejected was being moved (any distance) for diversity reasons.
You have said that approximately seven billion times since 2019, and every single time it was equally factually incorrect.
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