So much time spent disciplining kids in K

[Anonymous]

I'm wondering if this is a normal K occurrence or not: my child consistently reports and complains that their classroom misses out on activities or things are postponed because the class is misbehaving. I am getting the impression that the teacher spends a lot of time disciplining the kids and trying to get them to behave at the expense of actual instruction. My child is frustrated with the fact that the whole class pays for a few kids' bad behavior and I am beginning to agree. Have others experienced this and/or is this a pretty normal K experience?

[Anonymous]

Couple of things - yes it is normal in my experience for the whole class to get the experience or not to get it. For example, they get a party after certain number of 'peace days'. One person can ruin a peace day and they have to start over.

Second, I think my child loved discussing other kids' antics and gave the impression that it is a much bigger deal than it actually was. Part of it is because that's what's 'going on in school' for him. When I ask him how was school today, the fact that so and so got in trouble is more relevant to him than that they started triple digit adding.

[Anonymous]

I forgot to add, the other thing is that it's kindergarten. Kids are still learning the rules, some haven't been to preschool so even standing still in a line has to be learned. There IS more disciplining, correcting, etc. in kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

Are you in a highly rated school? I think most parents assume discpline issues are a much bigger issue in schools with a high FARMS rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if this is a normal K occurrence or not: my child consistently reports and complains that their classroom misses out on activities or things are postponed because the class is misbehaving. I am getting the impression that the teacher spends a lot of time disciplining the kids and trying to get them to behave at the expense of actual instruction. My child is frustrated with the fact that the whole class pays for a few kids' bad behavior and I am beginning to agree. Have others experienced this and/or is this a pretty normal K experience?

Allow me to be the first to get castigated for this, but it's why the make-up of your child's classroom makes such a difference. Children from dysfunctional homes act out - it's their normal. Lot of dysfunctional children in your child's classroom means a lot of time must be devoted to behavioral management as opposed to intellectual curiosity. It's why so many parents are concerned about not just a school's educators, administration, and curriculum - but the peer group.

[Anonymous]

My K'er frequently reports on which kids misbehaved or got on red, but I haven't heard about the class missing out on special activities because of misbehavior. And I think he'd tell me (loudly and unhappily) if that was happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if this is a normal K occurrence or not: my child consistently reports and complains that their classroom misses out on activities or things are postponed because the class is misbehaving. I am getting the impression that the teacher spends a lot of time disciplining the kids and trying to get them to behave at the expense of actual instruction. My child is frustrated with the fact that the whole class pays for a few kids' bad behavior and I am beginning to agree. Have others experienced this and/or is this a pretty normal K experience?

Allow me to be the first to get castigated for this, but it's why the make-up of your child's classroom makes such a difference. Children from dysfunctional homes act out - it's their normal. Lot of dysfunctional children in your child's classroom means a lot of time must be devoted to behavioral management as opposed to intellectual curiosity. It's why so many parents are concerned about not just a school's educators, administration, and curriculum - but the peer group.

But plenty of high SES kids are challenging in the classroom too. In fact in our school two boys from the most privileged families caused the most disruption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if this is a normal K occurrence or not: my child consistently reports and complains that their classroom misses out on activities or things are postponed because the class is misbehaving. I am getting the impression that the teacher spends a lot of time disciplining the kids and trying to get them to behave at the expense of actual instruction. My child is frustrated with the fact that the whole class pays for a few kids' bad behavior and I am beginning to agree. Have others experienced this and/or is this a pretty normal K experience?

Allow me to be the first to get castigated for this, but it's why the make-up of your child's classroom makes such a difference. Children from dysfunctional homes act out - it's their normal. Lot of dysfunctional children in your child's classroom means a lot of time must be devoted to behavioral management as opposed to intellectual curiosity. It's why so many parents are concerned about not just a school's educators, administration, and curriculum - but the peer group.

But plenty of high SES kids are challenging in the classroom too. In fact in our school two boys from the most privileged families caused the most disruption.

In the District of Columbia == you're in the DC Public Schools forum, I hope you noticed that -- the bolded part of your anecdote is the exception, not the norm.

the truly high SES kids in DC public schools (that term gets abused, btw: "high SES" isn't synonymous with "not in destitute poverty) who consistently disrupt are likely to have a neurological disorder like ADHD or ASD. And in fairness, some of the poor kids who act out probably also have a neurological disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if this is a normal K occurrence or not: my child consistently reports and complains that their classroom misses out on activities or things are postponed because the class is misbehaving. I am getting the impression that the teacher spends a lot of time disciplining the kids and trying to get them to behave at the expense of actual instruction. My child is frustrated with the fact that the whole class pays for a few kids' bad behavior and I am beginning to agree. Have others experienced this and/or is this a pretty normal K experience?

Allow me to be the first to get castigated for this, but it's why the make-up of your child's classroom makes such a difference. Children from dysfunctional homes act out - it's their normal. Lot of dysfunctional children in your child's classroom means a lot of time must be devoted to behavioral management as opposed to intellectual curiosity. It's why so many parents are concerned about not just a school's educators, administration, and curriculum - but the peer group.

But plenty of high SES kids are challenging in the classroom too. In fact in our school two boys from the most privileged families caused the most disruption.

In the District of Columbia == you're in the DC Public Schools forum, I hope you noticed that -- the bolded part of your anecdote is the exception, not the norm.

the truly high SES kids in DC public schools (that term gets abused, btw: "high SES" isn't synonymous with "not in destitute poverty) who consistently disrupt are likely to have a neurological disorder like ADHD or ASD. And in fairness, some of the poor kids who act out probably also have a neurological disorder.

This. When high SES kids act out in elementary school it's likely SN. When there is general and consistent acting-out which requires classroom level remediation (No recess for anyone! Put your heads on your desks!) it's because of generalized chaos that the school itself cannot solve.

A challenged child in a classroom can be helped, and can help his peers in turn, in their different ways. Too many challenged children is just a Lord of the Flies/jungle/ghetto/pathway to prison.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I don't think this is a low or high SES issue. My kid is a Janney and the K teacher has her hands full with active kids that are learning the rules (raising hands, not shouting, etc etc).

I think part of the problem is that there's so much instruction time where kids are supposed to sit there quietly while the teacher talks. yes, that's something they need to learn. But the teachers would have to discipline less if they weren't creating environments were kids had to be quiet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if this is a normal K occurrence or not: my child consistently reports and complains that their classroom misses out on activities or things are postponed because the class is misbehaving. I am getting the impression that the teacher spends a lot of time disciplining the kids and trying to get them to behave at the expense of actual instruction. My child is frustrated with the fact that the whole class pays for a few kids' bad behavior and I am beginning to agree. Have others experienced this and/or is this a pretty normal K experience?

Allow me to be the first to get castigated for this, but it's why the make-up of your child's classroom makes such a difference. Children from dysfunctional homes act out - it's their normal. Lot of dysfunctional children in your child's classroom means a lot of time must be devoted to behavioral management as opposed to intellectual curiosity. It's why so many parents are concerned about not just a school's educators, administration, and curriculum - but the peer group.

Not going to castigate you - AS LONG as your definition of "dysfunctional" includes spoiled kids whose parents have set up no boundaries and whose parents think they can do no wrong. Those kids are also behavior nightmares and take a lot of teacher time to keep in line. If you're suggesting that it's only "disadvantaged" or low income kids who have these issues, you are completely wrong and then yes, you should be castigated for that. But as long as you include badly-behaved kids (of all income brackets) and their lack of appropriate boundaries, then no castigation necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if this is a normal K occurrence or not: my child consistently reports and complains that their classroom misses out on activities or things are postponed because the class is misbehaving. I am getting the impression that the teacher spends a lot of time disciplining the kids and trying to get them to behave at the expense of actual instruction. My child is frustrated with the fact that the whole class pays for a few kids' bad behavior and I am beginning to agree. Have others experienced this and/or is this a pretty normal K experience?

Allow me to be the first to get castigated for this, but it's why the make-up of your child's classroom makes such a difference. Children from dysfunctional homes act out - it's their normal. Lot of dysfunctional children in your child's classroom means a lot of time must be devoted to behavioral management as opposed to intellectual curiosity. It's why so many parents are concerned about not just a school's educators, administration, and curriculum - but the peer group.

But plenty of high SES kids are challenging in the classroom too. In fact in our school two boys from the most privileged families caused the most disruption.

In the District of Columbia == you're in the DC Public Schools forum, I hope you noticed that -- the bolded part of your anecdote is the exception, not the norm.

the truly high SES kids in DC public schools (that term gets abused, btw: "high SES" isn't synonymous with "not in destitute poverty) who consistently disrupt are likely to have a neurological disorder like ADHD or ASD. And in fairness, some of the poor kids who act out probably also have a neurological disorder.

This. When high SES kids act out in elementary school it's likely SN. When there is general and consistent acting-out which requires classroom level remediation (No recess for anyone! Put your heads on your desks!) it's because of generalized chaos that the school itself cannot solve.

A challenged child in a classroom can be helped, and can help his peers in turn, in their different ways. Too many challenged children is just a Lord of the Flies/jungle/ghetto/pathway to prison.

You clearly don't actually teach in DC public schools. Unless you think "lack of appropriate boundaries and having consequences for bad choices" is a "special need", then NO, high SES kids acting out in elementary school are NOT just "likely SN". The class bias and excuse-making for privileged kids here is old news I know, but still sometimes shocking in how misguided and wrong it is!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if this is a normal K occurrence or not: my child consistently reports and complains that their classroom misses out on activities or things are postponed because the class is misbehaving. I am getting the impression that the teacher spends a lot of time disciplining the kids and trying to get them to behave at the expense of actual instruction. My child is frustrated with the fact that the whole class pays for a few kids' bad behavior and I am beginning to agree. Have others experienced this and/or is this a pretty normal K experience?

Allow me to be the first to get castigated for this, but it's why the make-up of your child's classroom makes such a difference. Children from dysfunctional homes act out - it's their normal. Lot of dysfunctional children in your child's classroom means a lot of time must be devoted to behavioral management as opposed to intellectual curiosity. It's why so many parents are concerned about not just a school's educators, administration, and curriculum - but the peer group.

Not going to castigate you - AS LONG as your definition of "dysfunctional" includes spoiled kids whose parents have set up no boundaries and whose parents think they can do no wrong. Those kids are also behavior nightmares and take a lot of teacher time to keep in line. If you're suggesting that it's only "disadvantaged" or low income kids who have these issues, you are completely wrong and then yes, you should be castigated for that. But as long as you include badly-behaved kids (of all income brackets) and their lack of appropriate boundaries, then no castigation necessary.

I am the the PP, and yes - helicoptered and entitled millennials are definitely another element of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Totally agree. High SES might have lots of things going on at home- divorce, moves, new siblings, stress- that also cause acting out.

My pediatrician has stressed out that children acting out is their way of expressing frustrations that they can't verbalize yet. So they might hit, talk, go quiet. withdraw. All the same, just manifested differently in each child.

At our K class, there was an awful fall. The school took feedback, made changes in the staffing of the classroom, and there has been a calm, peaceful learning environment ever since.

[Anonymous]

OP here: I just think that the whole classroom being punished is ridiculous. Does this problem go away in private school?