APS Elementary Location Working Group 4/12

[Anonymous]

As the goal is walkability to school, why not combine that goal with where density could be created for housing kids? ATS building is on the edge of Ballston. Growing student population near that walkable environment should be part of the plan. More kids are coming to Arlington so where can we house them not just where are current kids. We can house more kids in more dense areas.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:"In the case of ASFS, that is an unreasonable expectation. You aren't losing your walkable neighborhood school. It has not been a neighborhood school for decades now."


Except that it was a neighborhood school (Page) for many decades before becoming ATS (briefly) and then ASFS. And when ASFS first started, anyone in the neighborhood (and county) could attend. It wasn't until the Orange Line corridor exploded with young families and capacity became an issue that ASFS had to start turning folks away. Most families who can walk have been allowed (until the last few years) to go to ASFS.


So big picture, it was and (arguably has been) a neighborhood school for more years when compared to the years it has been Key's alternative school.

For all those folks who moved close to Key because they were "guaranteed" to go to ASFS, that was a pretty big gamble. Boundaries can change at any time. Your best bet is to have Key move to Nottingham and then make Key a neighborhood school.

Like you said, that was decades ago. No one buying in that neighborhood then has ES-aged children now.

Agree that boundaries can change for anyone at any point.

True but many bought in the neighborhoods surrounding ASFS when the team was a viable, functioning option, which was still the case 3-4 years ago.

Which circles back to the reality everyone is facing that none of us have a guarantee on which school our child attends. We are all fighting for our own schools, but the reality exists for all of us. Our neighborhood school is in our actual planning unit which is about as much of a guarantee as you can get. but has been on the table to turn into an option school. Talk about shock.

Which brings ME back to the point that it is far less disruptive the Arlington community as a whole to take what has not been a neighborhood school, or at least not a neighborhood school for its actual neighbors, and make it an option, especially when there are not that many students in an effective walk zone. This school is ASFS. I know that both current Key and ASFS families don't want to move, but if anyone moves at all, it will be them. So which is the better situation for the majority of Arlington families and students: busting up three school communities, including one that has been a walkable neighborhood school for as long as anyone can remember (whether that is Nottingham, Ashlawn, or McKinley is immaterial), paying to move three sets of staff and any special equipment and/or artwork/or whatever that belongs to the program, OR swap two schools that are not very far apart and who already partner for sports teams, leaving their communities largely intact and not "taking away" a walkable neighborhood school from anyone who had any reasonable expectation of having one?

Except that swapping the schools doesn't solve APS' long-term capacity problems. That area is growing (and has room for growth)- where do all those students go if Key, Taylor, Glebe, Long Branch, etc. are already over-capacity? That area really needs two neighborhood schools. And if Key goes to Nottingham, that's only two sets of staff, equipment, etc. to move.

Key cannot go to Nottingham. Key currently serves ASFS/Key, Barrett, Discovery, Glebe, Henry, Jamestown, Long Branch and Taylor. Those are the schools you have to work with. Maybe you can drag ATS into that mix even though it currently sits in the Claremont zone, but that may be a stretch due to the cost of moving an extra school (the next round of analysis will include the projected budget impact of all of these changes, so the school will be considering $$$). If you don't want immersion at either Key or ASFS, you need to find another site from that list that is near a Spanish-speaking population. Be smart, people. If you don't give the board something they can realistically work with, they're going to do something you really don't like.

Why do you think they can’t change the pull zone for Key? If they actually move schools around they can definitely redraw the immersion split nap.

If you put an immersion program up by Nottingham/Tuckahoe/Discovery, you might as well shut it down. Almost zero Spanish-speaking population up there. It's a non-starter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As the goal is walkability to school, why not combine that goal with where density could be created for housing kids? ATS building is on the edge of Ballston. Growing student population near that walkable environment should be part of the plan. More kids are coming to Arlington so where can we house them not just where are current kids. We can house more kids in more dense areas.

ATS is not walkable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Or they could put a crossing guard on Kirkwood and get over 200 walkers from Lyons Village to ASFS (in addition to the 100 potential walkers in the ASFS walk zone). Doesn't that also keep the current "community" fairly intact?

No, because the 101 students in the immediate ASFS walkzone (23170-68 and 23190-33) don't all go to ASFS right now because they are zoned Taylor. Also, the 122 students in the expanded walk zone across Kirkwood (23180-46, 23200-26, 23210-50) are also zoned to Taylor currently. So while a crossing guard on Kirkwood could increase the walkers to ASFS, they would mostly be new introductions to the community rather than current members.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ES_ASF_WZ_Policy_Round2.pdf
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/K-5-Student-County-by-Planning-Unit-SY2017-18.pdf

Uh, how would adding the walkers in the expanded walk zone be "new introductions" to the community when they are currently being bussed to ASFS? And for the Taylor folks who live in the walk zone, they are neighbors with the ASFS walk zone, many of whom already know and socialize with each other outside of school.

I'm not saying they don't know each other, just saying that planning units 23170, 231910, 23180, 23200, and 23210[/b] are all currently zoned to Taylor, and are being bused there unless they managed to luck into ASFS. Why do you think they are so mad? https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ESZones_Letter_2017_Revised2-1.pdf

That link just takes you to a boundary map?

Regardless of what happens with ASFS/Key, these Taylor folks aren't going to Taylor. Key and ASFS both neighborhood schools: They are going to one or the other. Key and ASFS swap: They are going to "new" Key (because everyone over in Cherrydale will have to go to Taylor). If Key and ASFS stay the same: Could possibly stay Taylor but likely to walk to ASFS after they put a Crossing Guard in. Many of those in 23170 and 23190 already go to ASFS. Yes, some go to Taylor and want to stay but there are others who wanted/still want to go to ASFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As the goal is walkability to school, why not combine that goal with where density could be created for housing kids? ATS building is on the edge of Ballston. Growing student population near that walkable environment should be part of the plan. More kids are coming to Arlington so where can we house them not just where are current kids. We can house more kids in more dense areas.

Ballston could go to ASFS if both Key and ASFS neighborhood

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or they could put a crossing guard on Kirkwood and get over 200 walkers from Lyons Village to ASFS (in addition to the 100 potential walkers in the ASFS walk zone). Doesn't that also keep the current "community" fairly intact?

No, because the 101 students in the immediate ASFS walkzone (23170-68 and 23190-33) don't all go to ASFS right now because they are zoned Taylor. Also, the 122 students in the expanded walk zone across Kirkwood (23180-46, 23200-26, 23210-50) are also zoned to Taylor currently. So while a crossing guard on Kirkwood could increase the walkers to ASFS, they would mostly be new introductions to the community rather than current members.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ES_ASF_WZ_Policy_Round2.pdf
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/K-5-Student-County-by-Planning-Unit-SY2017-18.pdf

Uh, how would adding the walkers in the expanded walk zone be "new introductions" to the community when they are currently being bussed to ASFS? And for the Taylor folks who live in the walk zone, they are neighbors with the ASFS walk zone, many of whom already know and socialize with each other outside of school.

I'm not saying they don't know each other, just saying that planning units 23170, 231910, 23180, 23200, and 23210[/b] are all currently zoned to Taylor, and are being bused there unless they managed to luck into ASFS. Why do you think they are so mad? https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ESZones_Letter_2017_Revised2-1.pdf

That link just takes you to a boundary map?

Regardless of what happens with ASFS/Key, these Taylor folks aren't going to Taylor. Key and ASFS both neighborhood schools: They are going to one or the other. Key and ASFS swap: They are going to "new" Key (because everyone over in Cherrydale will have to go to Taylor). If Key and ASFS stay the same: Could possibly stay Taylor but likely to walk to ASFS after they put a Crossing Guard in. Many of those in 23170 and 23190 already go to ASFS. Yes, some go to Taylor and want to stay but there are others who wanted/still want to go to ASFS.

Yes, cross reference boundary map to potential ASFS walk zone map to show these planning units are zoned Taylor right now. I was trying to show the above poster that none of these units are currently bused to ASFS.

I agree with your assessment that the Lyon Village units aren’t going to be Taylor anymore. My point was that the “status quo” of school locations will result in significant changes to the Taylor and ASFS communities.

[Anonymous]

Boundaries are going to change dramatically no matter what happens. Unless you live in the same planning unit as the school, I don't think anyone should assume they're going to their neighborhood school even if it becomes/stays neighborhood. A lot of people all over the place are fighting very hard to preserve schools they probably won't end up zoned for anyway if they do stay neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or they could put a crossing guard on Kirkwood and get over 200 walkers from Lyons Village to ASFS (in addition to the 100 potential walkers in the ASFS walk zone). Doesn't that also keep the current "community" fairly intact?

No, because the 101 students in the immediate ASFS walkzone (23170-68 and 23190-33) don't all go to ASFS right now because they are zoned Taylor. Also, the 122 students in the expanded walk zone across Kirkwood (23180-46, 23200-26, 23210-50) are also zoned to Taylor currently. So while a crossing guard on Kirkwood could increase the walkers to ASFS, they would mostly be new introductions to the community rather than current members.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ES_ASF_WZ_Policy_Round2.pdf
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/K-5-Student-County-by-Planning-Unit-SY2017-18.pdf

Uh, how would adding the walkers in the expanded walk zone be "new introductions" to the community when they are currently being bussed to ASFS? And for the Taylor folks who live in the walk zone, they are neighbors with the ASFS walk zone, many of whom already know and socialize with each other outside of school.

I'm not saying they don't know each other, just saying that planning units 23170, 231910, 23180, 23200, and 23210[/b] are all currently zoned to Taylor, and are being bused there unless they managed to luck into ASFS. Why do you think they are so mad? https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ESZones_Letter_2017_Revised2-1.pdf

That link just takes you to a boundary map?

Regardless of what happens with ASFS/Key, these Taylor folks aren't going to Taylor. Key and ASFS both neighborhood schools: They are going to one or the other. Key and ASFS swap: They are going to "new" Key (because everyone over in Cherrydale will have to go to Taylor). If Key and ASFS stay the same: Could possibly stay Taylor but likely to walk to ASFS after they put a Crossing Guard in. Many of those in 23170 and 23190 already go to ASFS. Yes, some go to Taylor and want to stay but there are others who wanted/still want to go to ASFS.

Yes, cross reference boundary map to potential ASFS walk zone map to show these planning units are zoned Taylor right now. I was trying to show the above poster that none of these units are currently bused to ASFS.

I agree with your assessment that the Lyon Village units aren’t going to be Taylor anymore. My point was that the “status quo” of school locations will result in significant changes to the Taylor and ASFS communities.

Actually, ALL of the planning units in Lyons Village get bussed to ASFS, or at least they let the kids in the "Taylor" zone walk over and take the ASFS bus to school. There are multiple families in that sliver between Kirkwood and Highland that send their kids to ASFS on busses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or they could put a crossing guard on Kirkwood and get over 200 walkers from Lyons Village to ASFS (in addition to the 100 potential walkers in the ASFS walk zone). Doesn't that also keep the current "community" fairly intact?

No, because the 101 students in the immediate ASFS walkzone (23170-68 and 23190-33) don't all go to ASFS right now because they are zoned Taylor. Also, the 122 students in the expanded walk zone across Kirkwood (23180-46, 23200-26, 23210-50) are also zoned to Taylor currently. So while a crossing guard on Kirkwood could increase the walkers to ASFS, they would mostly be new introductions to the community rather than current members.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ES_ASF_WZ_Policy_Round2.pdf
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/K-5-Student-County-by-Planning-Unit-SY2017-18.pdf

Uh, how would adding the walkers in the expanded walk zone be "new introductions" to the community when they are currently being bussed to ASFS? And for the Taylor folks who live in the walk zone, they are neighbors with the ASFS walk zone, many of whom already know and socialize with each other outside of school.

I'm not saying they don't know each other, just saying that planning units 23170, 231910, 23180, 23200, and 23210[/b] are all currently zoned to Taylor, and are being bused there unless they managed to luck into ASFS. Why do you think they are so mad? https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ESZones_Letter_2017_Revised2-1.pdf

That link just takes you to a boundary map?

Regardless of what happens with ASFS/Key, these Taylor folks aren't going to Taylor. Key and ASFS both neighborhood schools: They are going to one or the other. Key and ASFS swap: They are going to "new" Key (because everyone over in Cherrydale will have to go to Taylor). If Key and ASFS stay the same: Could possibly stay Taylor but likely to walk to ASFS after they put a Crossing Guard in. Many of those in 23170 and 23190 already go to ASFS. Yes, some go to Taylor and want to stay but there are others who wanted/still want to go to ASFS.

Yes, cross reference boundary map to potential ASFS walk zone map to show these planning units are zoned Taylor right now. I was trying to show the above poster that none of these units are currently bused to ASFS.

I agree with your assessment that the Lyon Village units aren’t going to be Taylor anymore. My point was that the “status quo” of school locations will result in significant changes to the Taylor and ASFS communities.

Actually, ALL of the planning units in Lyons Village get bussed to ASFS, or at least they let the kids in the "Taylor" zone walk over and take the ASFS bus to school. There are multiple families in that sliver between Kirkwood and Highland that send their kids to ASFS on busses.

...if they get in ASFS, right? Isn’t the default to bus them to Taylor?

[Anonymous]

Ok, so assuming they make Key a neighborhood school and move the immersion school, where are the possible relocation sites? Projected at over 800 students for next year, ASFS is a nonstarter. I’m asking with genuine curiosity because I haven’t seen anything realistic or geographically appropriate suggested. No matter how much folks resent choice schools, they play an important role in alleviating crowding in other schools and you need to house them somewhere. That “somewhere” will always be in somebody’s neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so assuming they make Key a neighborhood school and move the immersion school, where are the possible relocation sites? Projected at over 800 students for next year, ASFS is a nonstarter. I’m asking with genuine curiosity because I haven’t seen anything realistic or geographically appropriate suggested. No matter how much folks resent choice schools, they play an important role in alleviating crowding in other schools and you need to house them somewhere. That “somewhere” will always be in somebody’s neighborhood.

They don't need to stay that big. Admit smaller classes between now and 2021 and then move it to ATS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so assuming they make Key a neighborhood school and move the immersion school, where are the possible relocation sites? Projected at over 800 students for next year, ASFS is a nonstarter. I’m asking with genuine curiosity because I haven’t seen anything realistic or geographically appropriate suggested. No matter how much folks resent choice schools, they play an important role in alleviating crowding in other schools and you need to house them somewhere. That “somewhere” will always be in somebody’s neighborhood.

Since it’s full lottery now, that projection isn’t valid anymore. If I understand correctly, that projection was assuming they would have to take anyone who registered from Key zone, which is no longer the case. A lottery option school can control its total population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so assuming they make Key a neighborhood school and move the immersion school, where are the possible relocation sites? Projected at over 800 students for next year, ASFS is a nonstarter. I’m asking with genuine curiosity because I haven’t seen anything realistic or geographically appropriate suggested. No matter how much folks resent choice schools, they play an important role in alleviating crowding in other schools and you need to house them somewhere. That “somewhere” will always be in somebody’s neighborhood.

They don't need to stay that big. Admit smaller classes between now and 2021 and then move it to ATS.

Bingo and even ATS could hold it as they right size the program (897 Seats or 753 preferred). Option kids don't mind being in trailers....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so assuming they make Key a neighborhood school and move the immersion school, where are the possible relocation sites? Projected at over 800 students for next year, ASFS is a nonstarter. I’m asking with genuine curiosity because I haven’t seen anything realistic or geographically appropriate suggested. No matter how much folks resent choice schools, they play an important role in alleviating crowding in other schools and you need to house them somewhere. That “somewhere” will always be in somebody’s neighborhood.

They don't need to stay that big. Admit smaller classes between now and 2021 and then move it to ATS.

Bingo and even ATS could hold it as they right size the program (897 Seats or 753 preferred). Option kids don't mind being in trailers....

You seem nice. I can’t tell if you’re a troll or just classic arlington.

[Anonymous]

We don't need option schools to alleviate overcrowding. We could simply eliminate them and redistribute the kids to all neighborhood elementaries. I get so tired of people saying we need these schools. We don't. They screw up capacity issues, enrollment, projections. For what? Maybe I see the value of immersion, assuming that a high percentage of them go on to continue with spanish immersion in middle and high. But how many do that? Option schools are a luxury an overenrolled school system can't afford.