APS Elementary Location Working Group 4/12

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"In the case of ASFS, that is an unreasonable expectation. You aren't losing your walkable neighborhood school. It has not been a neighborhood school for decades now."


Except that it was a neighborhood school (Page) for many decades before becoming ATS (briefly) and then ASFS. And when ASFS first started, anyone in the neighborhood (and county) could attend. It wasn't until the Orange Line corridor exploded with young families and capacity became an issue that ASFS had to start turning folks away. Most families who can walk have been allowed (until the last few years) to go to ASFS.


So big picture, it was and (arguably has been) a neighborhood school for more years when compared to the years it has been Key's alternative school.

For all those folks who moved close to Key because they were "guaranteed" to go to ASFS, that was a pretty big gamble. Boundaries can change at any time. Your best bet is to have Key move to Nottingham and then make Key a neighborhood school.

Like you said, that was decades ago. No one buying in that neighborhood then has ES-aged children now.

Agree that boundaries can change for anyone at any point.

True but many bought in the neighborhoods surrounding ASFS when the team was a viable, functioning option, which was still the case 3-4 years ago.

Which circles back to the reality everyone is facing that none of us have a guarantee on which school our child attends. We are all fighting for our own schools, but the reality exists for all of us. Our neighborhood school is in our actual planning unit which is about as much of a guarantee as you can get. but has been on the table to turn into an option school. Talk about shock.

Which brings ME back to the point that it is far less disruptive the Arlington community as a whole to take what has not been a neighborhood school, or at least not a neighborhood school for its actual neighbors, and make it an option, especially when there are not that many students in an effective walk zone. This school is ASFS. I know that both current Key and ASFS families don't want to move, but if anyone moves at all, it will be them. So which is the better situation for the majority of Arlington families and students: busting up three school communities, including one that has been a walkable neighborhood school for as long as anyone can remember (whether that is Nottingham, Ashlawn, or McKinley is immaterial), paying to move three sets of staff and any special equipment and/or artwork/or whatever that belongs to the program, OR swap two schools that are not very far apart and who already partner for sports teams, leaving their communities largely intact and not "taking away" a walkable neighborhood school from anyone who had any reasonable expectation of having one?

How many times does it have to be said on this thread: Swapping ASFS and Key does absolutely nothing to address overcrowding in that part of Arlington while creating horrible boundaries and more bus riders. How is that a solution? If it takes disrupting 3 ES schools, and I hope it does not, to solve the problem for Arlington as a whole then that's what it takes, especially if there are too many seats in NW compared to the rest of the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hopefully they’ll scrap the idea of moving any option schools. For every problem it solves, it creates several more. Stick to redrawing the boundaries rather than effectively dismantling Key and ASFS, both of which are excellent programs that don’t deserve to be sabotaged in this process.

Key is a special program. ASFS is a neighborhood school with an active-to-the-point-of-overbearing PTA. It should serve the neighborhood it's in, plus as many students from the walk zone as it can handle.

At a minimum, ASFS gets moved, APS should NOT be paying to move the equipment the PTA bought. The PTA can do that, or they can leave it as a housewarming gift to Key.

That would be a magnanimous gesture indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"In the case of ASFS, that is an unreasonable expectation. You aren't losing your walkable neighborhood school. It has not been a neighborhood school for decades now."


Except that it was a neighborhood school (Page) for many decades before becoming ATS (briefly) and then ASFS. And when ASFS first started, anyone in the neighborhood (and county) could attend. It wasn't until the Orange Line corridor exploded with young families and capacity became an issue that ASFS had to start turning folks away. Most families who can walk have been allowed (until the last few years) to go to ASFS.


So big picture, it was and (arguably has been) a neighborhood school for more years when compared to the years it has been Key's alternative school.

For all those folks who moved close to Key because they were "guaranteed" to go to ASFS, that was a pretty big gamble. Boundaries can change at any time. Your best bet is to have Key move to Nottingham and then make Key a neighborhood school.

Like you said, that was decades ago. No one buying in that neighborhood then has ES-aged children now.

Agree that boundaries can change for anyone at any point.

True but many bought in the neighborhoods surrounding ASFS when the team was a viable, functioning option, which was still the case 3-4 years ago.

Which circles back to the reality everyone is facing that none of us have a guarantee on which school our child attends. We are all fighting for our own schools, but the reality exists for all of us. Our neighborhood school is in our actual planning unit which is about as much of a guarantee as you can get. but has been on the table to turn into an option school. Talk about shock.

Which brings ME back to the point that it is far less disruptive the Arlington community as a whole to take what has not been a neighborhood school, or at least not a neighborhood school for its actual neighbors, and make it an option, especially when there are not that many students in an effective walk zone. This school is ASFS. I know that both current Key and ASFS families don't want to move, but if anyone moves at all, it will be them. So which is the better situation for the majority of Arlington families and students: busting up three school communities, including one that has been a walkable neighborhood school for as long as anyone can remember (whether that is Nottingham, Ashlawn, or McKinley is immaterial), paying to move three sets of staff and any special equipment and/or artwork/or whatever that belongs to the program, OR swap two schools that are not very far apart and who already partner for sports teams, leaving their communities largely intact and not "taking away" a walkable neighborhood school from anyone who had any reasonable expectation of having one?

Except that swapping the schools doesn't solve APS' long-term capacity problems. That area is growing (and has room for growth)- where do all those students go if Key, Taylor, Glebe, Long Branch, etc. are already over-capacity? That area really needs two neighborhood schools. And if Key goes to Nottingham, that's only two sets of staff, equipment, etc. to move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"In the case of ASFS, that is an unreasonable expectation. You aren't losing your walkable neighborhood school. It has not been a neighborhood school for decades now."


Except that it was a neighborhood school (Page) for many decades before becoming ATS (briefly) and then ASFS. And when ASFS first started, anyone in the neighborhood (and county) could attend. It wasn't until the Orange Line corridor exploded with young families and capacity became an issue that ASFS had to start turning folks away. Most families who can walk have been allowed (until the last few years) to go to ASFS.


So big picture, it was and (arguably has been) a neighborhood school for more years when compared to the years it has been Key's alternative school.

For all those folks who moved close to Key because they were "guaranteed" to go to ASFS, that was a pretty big gamble. Boundaries can change at any time. Your best bet is to have Key move to Nottingham and then make Key a neighborhood school.

My neighbor, who is in her 40's, attended Page when it was what is now known as ATS. Anyone who has school-aged children now did move to their current home when ASFS was a neighborhood school. Try again.

We bought our house almost 25 years ago. It is literally next door to ASFS, but is zoned for Taylor. But when it was time for our now-16 year old to go to kindergarten, we were waitlisted for ASFS (by the time he was in 5th grade, he had moved up to #5 on the waitlist). So it hasn't been a true neighborhood school for over 10 years.

And we bought our house 19 years ago 3 blocks from ASFS and my 13 year old got into ASFS for kindergarten no problem and had plenty of friends who lotteried in from Taylor and within walking distance of ASFS.

[Anonymous]

I hope this county knows what it’s doing with Amazon probably coming to Arlington and Nestle/Gerber for sure. Folks are underestimating the transformational changes this will bring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
How many times does it have to be said on this thread: Swapping ASFS and Key does absolutely nothing to address overcrowding in that part of Arlington while creating horrible boundaries and more bus riders. How is that a solution? If it takes disrupting 3 ES schools, and I hope it does not, to solve the problem for Arlington as a whole then that's what it takes, especially if there are too many seats in NW compared to the rest of the county.

Swapping actually leaves the boundaries mostly intact and requires less buses because Neighborhood Key would have a lot more people walking who are currently busing to ASFS, particularly if they put a crossing guard at Veitch and Wilson/Clarendon Blvd. Immersion is going to need a ton of buses no matter what because it's county-wide. You're correct that the overcrowding would remain a completely f-ed situation.

[Anonymous]

Or they could put a crossing guard on Kirkwood and get over 200 walkers from Lyons Village to ASFS (in addition to the 100 potential walkers in the ASFS walk zone). Doesn't that also keep the current "community" fairly intact?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"In the case of ASFS, that is an unreasonable expectation. You aren't losing your walkable neighborhood school. It has not been a neighborhood school for decades now."


Except that it was a neighborhood school (Page) for many decades before becoming ATS (briefly) and then ASFS. And when ASFS first started, anyone in the neighborhood (and county) could attend. It wasn't until the Orange Line corridor exploded with young families and capacity became an issue that ASFS had to start turning folks away. Most families who can walk have been allowed (until the last few years) to go to ASFS.


So big picture, it was and (arguably has been) a neighborhood school for more years when compared to the years it has been Key's alternative school.

For all those folks who moved close to Key because they were "guaranteed" to go to ASFS, that was a pretty big gamble. Boundaries can change at any time. Your best bet is to have Key move to Nottingham and then make Key a neighborhood school.

My neighbor, who is in her 40's, attended Page when it was what is now known as ATS. Anyone who has school-aged children now did move to their current home when ASFS was a neighborhood school. Try again.

We bought our house almost 25 years ago. It is literally next door to ASFS, but is zoned for Taylor. But when it was time for our now-16 year old to go to kindergarten, we were waitlisted for ASFS (by the time he was in 5th grade, he had moved up to #5 on the waitlist). So it hasn't been a true neighborhood school for over 10 years.

And we bought our house 19 years ago 3 blocks from ASFS and my 13 year old got into ASFS for kindergarten no problem and had plenty of friends who lotteried in from Taylor and within walking distance of ASFS.

I'm happy that worked out for you and your family In the end, I didn't mind that our kid didn't get into ASFS, but I was pretty annoyed about it for a while. I think that under the current system it is very difficult for the immediate neighbors to get into ASFS, as almost all of the spots go to Key/ASFS attendance zone families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or they could put a crossing guard on Kirkwood and get over 200 walkers from Lyons Village to ASFS (in addition to the 100 potential walkers in the ASFS walk zone). Doesn't that also keep the current "community" fairly intact?

No, because the 101 students in the immediate ASFS walkzone (23170-68 and 23190-33) don't all go to ASFS right now because they are zoned Taylor. Also, the 122 students in the expanded walk zone across Kirkwood (23180-46, 23200-26, 23210-50) are also zoned to Taylor currently. So while a crossing guard on Kirkwood could increase the walkers to ASFS, they would mostly be new introductions to the community rather than current members.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ES_ASF_WZ_Policy_Round2.pdf
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/K-5-Student-County-by-Planning-Unit-SY2017-18.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gimmie a break.
NVD is taking it personally because the ED center was her thing. She always makes it personal.
I don’t disagree that staff shouldn’t be pulling the rug out, but Let’s not pretend about what motivates NVD.

And high school seats at the Ed Center equates to preserving W-L in its entirety. So she is also fighting for her precious W-L.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or they could put a crossing guard on Kirkwood and get over 200 walkers from Lyons Village to ASFS (in addition to the 100 potential walkers in the ASFS walk zone). Doesn't that also keep the current "community" fairly intact?

No, because the 101 students in the immediate ASFS walkzone (23170-68 and 23190-33) don't all go to ASFS right now because they are zoned Taylor. Also, the 122 students in the expanded walk zone across Kirkwood (23180-46, 23200-26, 23210-50) are also zoned to Taylor currently. So while a crossing guard on Kirkwood could increase the walkers to ASFS, they would mostly be new introductions to the community rather than current members.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ES_ASF_WZ_Policy_Round2.pdf
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/K-5-Student-County-by-Planning-Unit-SY2017-18.pdf

Uh, how would adding the walkers in the expanded walk zone be "new introductions" to the community when they are currently being bussed to ASFS? And for the Taylor folks who live in the walk zone, they are neighbors with the ASFS walk zone, many of whom already know and socialize with each other outside of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or they could put a crossing guard on Kirkwood and get over 200 walkers from Lyons Village to ASFS (in addition to the 100 potential walkers in the ASFS walk zone). Doesn't that also keep the current "community" fairly intact?

No, because the 101 students in the immediate ASFS walkzone (23170-68 and 23190-33) don't all go to ASFS right now because they are zoned Taylor. Also, the 122 students in the expanded walk zone across Kirkwood (23180-46, 23200-26, 23210-50) are also zoned to Taylor currently. So while a crossing guard on Kirkwood could increase the walkers to ASFS, they would mostly be new introductions to the community rather than current members.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ES_ASF_WZ_Policy_Round2.pdf
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/K-5-Student-County-by-Planning-Unit-SY2017-18.pdf

Uh, how would adding the walkers in the expanded walk zone be "new introductions" to the community when they are currently being bussed to ASFS? And for the Taylor folks who live in the walk zone, they are neighbors with the ASFS walk zone, many of whom already know and socialize with each other outside of school.

I'm not saying they don't know each other, just saying that planning units 23170, 231910, 23180, 23200, and 23210 are all currently zoned to Taylor, and are being bused there unless they managed to luck into ASFS. Why do you think they are so mad? https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ESZones_Letter_2017_Revised2-1.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"In the case of ASFS, that is an unreasonable expectation. You aren't losing your walkable neighborhood school. It has not been a neighborhood school for decades now."


Except that it was a neighborhood school (Page) for many decades before becoming ATS (briefly) and then ASFS. And when ASFS first started, anyone in the neighborhood (and county) could attend. It wasn't until the Orange Line corridor exploded with young families and capacity became an issue that ASFS had to start turning folks away. Most families who can walk have been allowed (until the last few years) to go to ASFS.


So big picture, it was and (arguably has been) a neighborhood school for more years when compared to the years it has been Key's alternative school.

For all those folks who moved close to Key because they were "guaranteed" to go to ASFS, that was a pretty big gamble. Boundaries can change at any time. Your best bet is to have Key move to Nottingham and then make Key a neighborhood school.

Like you said, that was decades ago. No one buying in that neighborhood then has ES-aged children now.

Agree that boundaries can change for anyone at any point.

True but many bought in the neighborhoods surrounding ASFS when the team was a viable, functioning option, which was still the case 3-4 years ago.

Which circles back to the reality everyone is facing that none of us have a guarantee on which school our child attends. We are all fighting for our own schools, but the reality exists for all of us. Our neighborhood school is in our actual planning unit which is about as much of a guarantee as you can get. but has been on the table to turn into an option school. Talk about shock.

Which brings ME back to the point that it is far less disruptive the Arlington community as a whole to take what has not been a neighborhood school, or at least not a neighborhood school for its actual neighbors, and make it an option, especially when there are not that many students in an effective walk zone. This school is ASFS. I know that both current Key and ASFS families don't want to move, but if anyone moves at all, it will be them. So which is the better situation for the majority of Arlington families and students: busting up three school communities, including one that has been a walkable neighborhood school for as long as anyone can remember (whether that is Nottingham, Ashlawn, or McKinley is immaterial), paying to move three sets of staff and any special equipment and/or artwork/or whatever that belongs to the program, OR swap two schools that are not very far apart and who already partner for sports teams, leaving their communities largely intact and not "taking away" a walkable neighborhood school from anyone who had any reasonable expectation of having one?

Except that swapping the schools doesn't solve APS' long-term capacity problems. That area is growing (and has room for growth)- where do all those students go if Key, Taylor, Glebe, Long Branch, etc. are already over-capacity? That area really needs two neighborhood schools. And if Key goes to Nottingham, that's only two sets of staff, equipment, etc. to move.

Key cannot go to Nottingham. Key currently serves ASFS/Key, Barrett, Discovery, Glebe, Henry, Jamestown, Long Branch and Taylor. Those are the schools you have to work with. Maybe you can drag ATS into that mix even though it currently sits in the Claremont zone, but that may be a stretch due to the cost of moving an extra school (the next round of analysis will include the projected budget impact of all of these changes, so the school will be considering $$$). If you don't want immersion at either Key or ASFS, you need to find another site from that list that is near a Spanish-speaking population. Be smart, people. If you don't give the board something they can realistically work with, they're going to do something you really don't like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or they could put a crossing guard on Kirkwood and get over 200 walkers from Lyons Village to ASFS (in addition to the 100 potential walkers in the ASFS walk zone). Doesn't that also keep the current "community" fairly intact?

If Key and ASFS become neighborhood schools and Key moves to ATS (pushing ATS to Tuckahoe/Nottingham/Discovery), the displaced families from the west will pull Glebe's boundaries west and ASFS is going to pick up a bunch of eastern part of the current Glebe zone. Either that or Taylor takes a bunch of current Discovery, and then more of Taylor has to push south into ASFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"In the case of ASFS, that is an unreasonable expectation. You aren't losing your walkable neighborhood school. It has not been a neighborhood school for decades now."


Except that it was a neighborhood school (Page) for many decades before becoming ATS (briefly) and then ASFS. And when ASFS first started, anyone in the neighborhood (and county) could attend. It wasn't until the Orange Line corridor exploded with young families and capacity became an issue that ASFS had to start turning folks away. Most families who can walk have been allowed (until the last few years) to go to ASFS.


So big picture, it was and (arguably has been) a neighborhood school for more years when compared to the years it has been Key's alternative school.

For all those folks who moved close to Key because they were "guaranteed" to go to ASFS, that was a pretty big gamble. Boundaries can change at any time. Your best bet is to have Key move to Nottingham and then make Key a neighborhood school.

Like you said, that was decades ago. No one buying in that neighborhood then has ES-aged children now.

Agree that boundaries can change for anyone at any point.

True but many bought in the neighborhoods surrounding ASFS when the team was a viable, functioning option, which was still the case 3-4 years ago.

Which circles back to the reality everyone is facing that none of us have a guarantee on which school our child attends. We are all fighting for our own schools, but the reality exists for all of us. Our neighborhood school is in our actual planning unit which is about as much of a guarantee as you can get. but has been on the table to turn into an option school. Talk about shock.

Which brings ME back to the point that it is far less disruptive the Arlington community as a whole to take what has not been a neighborhood school, or at least not a neighborhood school for its actual neighbors, and make it an option, especially when there are not that many students in an effective walk zone. This school is ASFS. I know that both current Key and ASFS families don't want to move, but if anyone moves at all, it will be them. So which is the better situation for the majority of Arlington families and students: busting up three school communities, including one that has been a walkable neighborhood school for as long as anyone can remember (whether that is Nottingham, Ashlawn, or McKinley is immaterial), paying to move three sets of staff and any special equipment and/or artwork/or whatever that belongs to the program, OR swap two schools that are not very far apart and who already partner for sports teams, leaving their communities largely intact and not "taking away" a walkable neighborhood school from anyone who had any reasonable expectation of having one?

Except that swapping the schools doesn't solve APS' long-term capacity problems. That area is growing (and has room for growth)- where do all those students go if Key, Taylor, Glebe, Long Branch, etc. are already over-capacity? That area really needs two neighborhood schools. And if Key goes to Nottingham, that's only two sets of staff, equipment, etc. to move.

Key cannot go to Nottingham. Key currently serves ASFS/Key, Barrett, Discovery, Glebe, Henry, Jamestown, Long Branch and Taylor. Those are the schools you have to work with. Maybe you can drag ATS into that mix even though it currently sits in the Claremont zone, but that may be a stretch due to the cost of moving an extra school (the next round of analysis will include the projected budget impact of all of these changes, so the school will be considering $$$). If you don't want immersion at either Key or ASFS, you need to find another site from that list that is near a Spanish-speaking population. Be smart, people. If you don't give the board something they can realistically work with, they're going to do something you really don't like.

Why do you think they can’t change the pull zone for Key? If they actually move schools around they can definitely redraw the immersion split nap.