Ohio heartbeat law

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't get nonmedical abortions at 20 weeks in part because pregnancies are generally very hard to hide at that stage. It's been months of people asking when the baby is due, and asking about names, and sharing stories about their pregnancies. That's what women do. It's what families do, even poor families, and families without as much advantage or class as you. Even unmarried women hear congratulations about the pregnancy from the neighbors, and their aunts, and people at the store where they shop.

They are going to explain to everybody that there's no baby because they decided to abort it right before it could survive? Really?

If someone wants to get rid of a pregnancy because it is "inconvenient" -- and boy, that is a helluva range of meaning there -- they do it before they have to answer questions about it. Social disapprobation is huge for abortion, especially late term. Whether you think it should be or not, doesn't matter -- nobody gets through that with mild singing. Women don't seek it out unless they are beyond desperate.

Except they do.
I was curious and did some researchand this is what I learned.
1. 3rd trimester abortions are rare.
2. There's not much research into 3rd trimester abortions.
3. The term "late term" abortion is vague and different people mean different things by it.
4. The evidence we have is that there are some 3rd semester abortions happening for reasons other than life of the mother/baby.

I am not sure why we need to double down on "there are no voluntary abortions in the 3rd trimester!"
It's false, but isn't it also irrelevent? Abortion is legal. Even if we were to make abortion illegal in the 3rd trimester, anyone who wanted an abortion would surely be able to find a sympathetic doctor to sign off on medical necessity and all 3rd trimester abortions would become medically necessary.

First, have you ever been pregnant?
Second, you're insanely off base about your "sympathetic doctor" to simply "sign off" on medical necessity. OBs don't let you use Advil; you think they would wink and nod about this? And third, even if you did find someone to "sign off," there are FOUR doctors in the entire country who do these procedures. Four. They are out of pocket procedures, they are sometimes multi-day procedures, and this means flying and a hotel room on top of surgical charges. Not. happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't get nonmedical abortions at 20 weeks in part because pregnancies are generally very hard to hide at that stage. It's been months of people asking when the baby is due, and asking about names, and sharing stories about their pregnancies. That's what women do. It's what families do, even poor families, and families without as much advantage or class as you. Even unmarried women hear congratulations about the pregnancy from the neighbors, and their aunts, and people at the store where they shop.

They are going to explain to everybody that there's no baby because they decided to abort it right before it could survive? Really?

If someone wants to get rid of a pregnancy because it is "inconvenient" -- and boy, that is a helluva range of meaning there -- they do it before they have to answer questions about it. Social disapprobation is huge for abortion, especially late term. Whether you think it should be or not, doesn't matter -- nobody gets through that with mild singing. Women don't seek it out unless they are beyond desperate.

Except they do.
I was curious and did some researchand this is what I learned.
1. 3rd trimester abortions are rare.
2. There's not much research into 3rd trimester abortions.
3. The term "late term" abortion is vague and different people mean different things by it.
4. The evidence we have is that there are some 3rd semester abortions happening for reasons other than life of the mother/baby.

I am not sure why we need to double down on "there are no voluntary abortions in the 3rd trimester!"
It's false, but isn't it also irrelevent? Abortion is legal. Even if we were to make abortion illegal in the 3rd trimester, anyone who wanted an abortion would surely be able to find a sympathetic doctor to sign off on medical necessity and all 3rd trimester abortions would become medically necessary.

First, have you ever been pregnant?
Second, you're insanely off base about your "sympathetic doctor" to simply "sign off" on medical necessity. OBs don't let you use Advil; you think they would wink and nod about this? And third, even if you did find someone to "sign off," there are FOUR doctors in the entire country who do these procedures. Four. They are out of pocket procedures, they are sometimes multi-day procedures, and this means flying and a hotel room on top of surgical charges. Not. happening.

I probably shouldn't even post this, since the bill that is the topic of this thread calls for outlawing abortion at SIX WEEKS so the late term stuff is off-topic, but here is what happened when this woman needed an abortion at 32 weeks. It is heart-rending.
http://jezebel.com/interview-with-a-woman-who-recently-had-an-abortion-at-1781972395

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't get nonmedical abortions at 20 weeks in part because pregnancies are generally very hard to hide at that stage. It's been months of people asking when the baby is due, and asking about names, and sharing stories about their pregnancies. That's what women do. It's what families do, even poor families, and families without as much advantage or class as you. Even unmarried women hear congratulations about the pregnancy from the neighbors, and their aunts, and people at the store where they shop.

They are going to explain to everybody that there's no baby because they decided to abort it right before it could survive? Really?

If someone wants to get rid of a pregnancy because it is "inconvenient" -- and boy, that is a helluva range of meaning there -- they do it before they have to answer questions about it. Social disapprobation is huge for abortion, especially late term. Whether you think it should be or not, doesn't matter -- nobody gets through that with mild singing. Women don't seek it out unless they are beyond desperate.

Except they do.
I was curious and did some researchand this is what I learned.
1. 3rd trimester abortions are rare.
2. There's not much research into 3rd trimester abortions.
3. The term "late term" abortion is vague and different people mean different things by it.
4. The evidence we have is that there are some 3rd semester abortions happening for reasons other than life of the mother/baby.

I am not sure why we need to double down on "there are no voluntary abortions in the 3rd trimester!"
It's false, but isn't it also irrelevent? Abortion is legal. Even if we were to make abortion illegal in the 3rd trimester, anyone who wanted an abortion would surely be able to find a sympathetic doctor to sign off on medical necessity and all 3rd trimester abortions would become medically necessary.

First, have you ever been pregnant?
Second, you're insanely off base about your "sympathetic doctor" to simply "sign off" on medical necessity. OBs don't let you use Advil; you think they would wink and nod about this? And third, even if you did find someone to "sign off," there are FOUR doctors in the entire country who do these procedures. Four. They are out of pocket procedures, they are sometimes multi-day procedures, and this means flying and a hotel room on top of surgical charges. Not. happening.

I probably shouldn't even post this, since the bill that is the topic of this thread calls for outlawing abortion at SIX WEEKS so the late term stuff is off-topic, but here is what happened when this woman needed an abortion at 32 weeks. It is heart-rending.
http://jezebel.com/interview-with-a-woman-who-recently-had-an-abortion-at-1781972395

A heartbreaking and horrific situation and an illustration of why blanket prohibitions on abortion are wrong. There will always be someone like this who has a special case that needs a special resolution.

[Anonymous]

John Kasich just vetoed the bill. He is smart enough to realize that it would have been found unconstitutional and has the integrity to follow the law. I pray daily that he will rise to the occasion and help lead his party out of the wildnerness of the culture wars and into a rational future where government stays the hell out of our private business and stops trying to enact evangelical Christian law (the real threat, not Sharia law). Huzzah for common sense!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don't get nonmedical abortions at 20 weeks in part because pregnancies are generally very hard to hide at that stage. It's been months of people asking when the baby is due, and asking about names, and sharing stories about their pregnancies. That's what women do. It's what families do, even poor families, and families without as much advantage or class as you. Even unmarried women hear congratulations about the pregnancy from the neighbors, and their aunts, and people at the store where they shop.

They are going to explain to everybody that there's no baby because they decided to abort it right before it could survive? Really?

If someone wants to get rid of a pregnancy because it is "inconvenient" -- and boy, that is a helluva range of meaning there -- they do it before they have to answer questions about it. Social disapprobation is huge for abortion, especially late term. Whether you think it should be or not, doesn't matter -- nobody gets through that with mild singing. Women don't seek it out unless they are beyond desperate.

Except they do.
I was curious and did some researchand this is what I learned.
1. 3rd trimester abortions are rare.
2. There's not much research into 3rd trimester abortions.
3. The term "late term" abortion is vague and different people mean different things by it.
4. The evidence we have is that there are some 3rd semester abortions happening for reasons other than life of the mother/baby.

I am not sure why we need to double down on "there are no voluntary abortions in the 3rd trimester!"
It's false, but isn't it also irrelevent? Abortion is legal. Even if we were to make abortion illegal in the 3rd trimester, anyone who wanted an abortion would surely be able to find a sympathetic doctor to sign off on medical necessity and all 3rd trimester abortions would become medically necessary.

Your "research" not surprisingly sucks. 3rd trimester abortions are only done for medical reasons by a literal handful of doctors in this country. They're not done voluntarily for any other reason because a healthy fetus is viable at that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:John Kasich just vetoed the bill. He is smart enough to realize that it would have been found unconstitutional and has the integrity to follow the law. I pray daily that he will rise to the occasion and help lead his party out of the wildnerness of the culture wars and into a rational future where government stays the hell out of our private business and stops trying to enact evangelical Christian law (the real threat, not Sharia law). Huzzah for common sense!

Huzzah indeed. But did he sign the 20-week ban?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:John Kasich just vetoed the bill. He is smart enough to realize that it would have been found unconstitutional and has the integrity to follow the law. I pray daily that he will rise to the occasion and help lead his party out of the wildnerness of the culture wars and into a rational future where government stays the hell out of our private business and stops trying to enact evangelical Christian law (the real threat, not Sharia law). Huzzah for common sense!

Huzzah indeed. But did he sign the 20-week ban?

Yep. He knows that one has a chance, the other one did not.
The thing is, many anomalies, even non-viable anomalies, are not diagnosed until after 20 weeks.
This ban also has no rape-incest exception.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you sitting in judgment are pathetic.

Unless you are there to raise those children, provide for them, and support policies that provide the things you aren't willing to do (parental leave, healthcare for children, reasonably priced health care, etc.) you have no right -NONE- to sit in judgment of someone else who has chosen a path you would not. There are LOADS of kids languishing in foster care. Put your money where your vicious mouths are and get involved with those kids who are here and who have no consistent source of love and little advantages.

Is a heartbeat alone life? Maybe. But, it's not a human viable of living outside the womb at 6 weeks. And, that life is second to the woman. Period. It it regrettable, yes. But, again, you folks are generally the ones who also object to free and ready access to health care b/c it offends your delicate sensitivities. You're hypocrites. You're sanctimonious. You're judgmental. You're disgusting.

this doesn't make any sense. It is like saying the lives of the poor are worthless. If you are not middle class, then your life isn't worth living? You can not believe this. It is not better to not have lived at all than to have lived hungry and poor.

And what you seem to be saying is that the lives of women are worth less than the lives of the embryos in their uterus and that the state gets to force them to be hostages to those embryos.

Your statement describing being hostage to an embryo is so very different from my perspective. I can see why we're miles apart on the abortion issue.

Congratulations on never having had an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy. That's so nice for you.

Did your parents tell you that you were "planned" when you came along? Or was your timing less than ideal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you sitting in judgment are pathetic.

Unless you are there to raise those children, provide for them, and support policies that provide the things you aren't willing to do (parental leave, healthcare for children, reasonably priced health care, etc.) you have no right -NONE- to sit in judgment of someone else who has chosen a path you would not. There are LOADS of kids languishing in foster care. Put your money where your vicious mouths are and get involved with those kids who are here and who have no consistent source of love and little advantages.

Is a heartbeat alone life? Maybe. But, it's not a human viable of living outside the womb at 6 weeks. And, that life is second to the woman. Period. It it regrettable, yes. But, again, you folks are generally the ones who also object to free and ready access to health care b/c it offends your delicate sensitivities. You're hypocrites. You're sanctimonious. You're judgmental. You're disgusting.

this doesn't make any sense. It is like saying the lives of the poor are worthless. If you are not middle class, then your life isn't worth living? You can not believe this. It is not better to not have lived at all than to have lived hungry and poor.

And what you seem to be saying is that the lives of women are worth less than the lives of the embryos in their uterus and that the state gets to force them to be hostages to those embryos.

Your statement describing being hostage to an embryo is so very different from my perspective. I can see why we're miles apart on the abortion issue.

Congratulations on never having had an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy. That's so nice for you.

Did your parents tell you that you were "planned" when you came along? Or was your timing less than ideal?

I happen to know I was planned, since I'm the third kid and my mom always wanted four, then she had a late miscarriage after me and after that my parents stopped trying. But what on earth is your point?