Boys 2028 mess - considerations and solutions.

[Anonymous]

I thought the VEL director moved out of the area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Rec lacrosse participation is down about 45% from peak in NoVa. I would guess something similar in DMV MD, as I know it's similar in Baltimore.
It's not first tremors and fewer babies doesn't begin to account for it, school sizes haven't changed around here. JV programs have been scrapped in many schools over the last several years. 7 on 7 games. JVs that are filled are now more often with 1st time players.
You are correct that specialization is a corollary, Johnnie is playing club and travelling everywhere, and not bringing his 3-5 buddies into the sport.

Where did you get the 45% number from? Is it 45% less players or teams?

I know the number was 5,400 @ a year in the past. Don't even know if that was the high water mark. Now, there are 149 teams. Estimate 20 kids per team or come with your own number.

Our own area's rec team is down more than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So should I just find the cheapest club? Or does “elite” really matter

Your kid's individual talent is what matters. If you're good enough, you will be able to show it to those who need to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Rec lacrosse participation is down about 45% from peak in NoVa. I would guess something similar in DMV MD, as I know it's similar in Baltimore.
It's not first tremors and fewer babies doesn't begin to account for it, school sizes haven't changed around here. JV programs have been scrapped in many schools over the last several years. 7 on 7 games. JVs that are filled are now more often with 1st time players.
You are correct that specialization is a corollary, Johnnie is playing club and travelling everywhere, and not bringing his 3-5 buddies into the sport.

Where did you get the 45% number from? Is it 45% less players or teams?

I know the number was 5,400 @ a year in the past. Don't even know if that was the high water mark. Now, there are 149 teams. Estimate 20 kids per team or come with your own number.

Our own area's rec team is down more than that.

1) Where does the 5400 number come from?
2) Generally doesn't include the inhouse leagues run by several entities like Arlington and Alexandria and other entities.
3) are some youth players playing in ML, STJ and the likes scooper programs that could be playing for the respective counties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse participation is down about 45% from peak in NoVa. I would guess something similar in DMV MD, as I know it's similar in Baltimore.
It's not first tremors and fewer babies doesn't begin to account for it, school sizes haven't changed around here. JV programs have been scrapped in many schools over the last several years. 7 on 7 games. JVs that are filled are now more often with 1st time players.
You are correct that specialization is a corollary, Johnnie is playing club and travelling everywhere, and not bringing his 3-5 buddies into the sport.

Where did you get the 45% number from? Is it 45% less players or teams?

I know the number was 5,400 @ a year in the past. Don't even know if that was the high water mark. Now, there are 149 teams. Estimate 20 kids per team or come with your own number.

Our own area's rec team is down more than that.

1) Where does the 5400 number come from?
2) Generally doesn't include the inhouse leagues run by several entities like Arlington and Alexandria and other entities.
3) are some youth players playing in ML, STJ and the likes scooper programs that could be playing for the respective counties.

1) A conversation with the head of NVYLL.
2) and 3) Not aware of numbers or how that affects an area's rec programs. I know Arl, Alex still have teams in NVYLL.

There are probably more players doing club and no rec, but in toto you're talking about 2,400 boys short, 120 teams worth, and any answer for where some other players may be will fall well short of that.

Which is why, thread topic, there are fewer players at the high schools. Not all of them, but quite a few and without taking a poll probably the majority. Lacrosse is not special here, some other sports are feeling it, too. But it used to be a growth sport, one of the few. Now mature areas are bleeding even as growth spots in less dense playing areas are expanding some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse participation is down about 45% from peak in NoVa. I would guess something similar in DMV MD, as I know it's similar in Baltimore.
It's not first tremors and fewer babies doesn't begin to account for it, school sizes haven't changed around here. JV programs have been scrapped in many schools over the last several years. 7 on 7 games. JVs that are filled are now more often with 1st time players.
You are correct that specialization is a corollary, Johnnie is playing club and travelling everywhere, and not bringing his 3-5 buddies into the sport.

Where did you get the 45% number from? Is it 45% less players or teams?

I know the number was 5,400 @ a year in the past. Don't even know if that was the high water mark. Now, there are 149 teams. Estimate 20 kids per team or come with your own number.

Our own area's rec team is down more than that.

1) Where does the 5400 number come from?
2) Generally doesn't include the inhouse leagues run by several entities like Arlington and Alexandria and other entities.
3) are some youth players playing in ML, STJ and the likes scooper programs that could be playing for the respective counties.

1) A conversation with the head of NVYLL.
2) and 3) Not aware of numbers or how that affects an area's rec programs. I know Arl, Alex still have teams in NVYLL.

There are probably more players doing club and no rec, but in toto you're talking about 2,400 boys short, 120 teams worth, and any answer for where some other players may be will fall well short of that.

Which is why, thread topic, there are fewer players at the high schools. Not all of them, but quite a few and without taking a poll probably the majority. Lacrosse is not special here, some other sports are feeling it, too. But it used to be a growth sport, one of the few. Now mature areas are bleeding even as growth spots in less dense playing areas are expanding some.

was that discussion just boys or girls and boys?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse participation is down about 45% from peak in NoVa. I would guess something similar in DMV MD, as I know it's similar in Baltimore.
It's not first tremors and fewer babies doesn't begin to account for it, school sizes haven't changed around here. JV programs have been scrapped in many schools over the last several years. 7 on 7 games. JVs that are filled are now more often with 1st time players.
You are correct that specialization is a corollary, Johnnie is playing club and travelling everywhere, and not bringing his 3-5 buddies into the sport.

Where did you get the 45% number from? Is it 45% less players or teams?

I know the number was 5,400 @ a year in the past. Don't even know if that was the high water mark. Now, there are 149 teams. Estimate 20 kids per team or come with your own number.

Our own area's rec team is down more than that.

1) Where does the 5400 number come from?
2) Generally doesn't include the inhouse leagues run by several entities like Arlington and Alexandria and other entities.
3) are some youth players playing in ML, STJ and the likes scooper programs that could be playing for the respective counties.

1) A conversation with the head of NVYLL.
2) and 3) Not aware of numbers or how that affects an area's rec programs. I know Arl, Alex still have teams in NVYLL.

There are probably more players doing club and no rec, but in toto you're talking about 2,400 boys short, 120 teams worth, and any answer for where some other players may be will fall well short of that.

Which is why, thread topic, there are fewer players at the high schools. Not all of them, but quite a few and without taking a poll probably the majority. Lacrosse is not special here, some other sports are feeling it, too. But it used to be a growth sport, one of the few. Now mature areas are bleeding even as growth spots in less dense playing areas are expanding some.

was that discussion just boys or girls and boys?

It was just boys. Why am I being prompted with unending questions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse participation is down about 45% from peak in NoVa. I would guess something similar in DMV MD, as I know it's similar in Baltimore.
It's not first tremors and fewer babies doesn't begin to account for it, school sizes haven't changed around here. JV programs have been scrapped in many schools over the last several years. 7 on 7 games. JVs that are filled are now more often with 1st time players.
You are correct that specialization is a corollary, Johnnie is playing club and travelling everywhere, and not bringing his 3-5 buddies into the sport.

Where did you get the 45% number from? Is it 45% less players or teams?

I know the number was 5,400 @ a year in the past. Don't even know if that was the high water mark. Now, there are 149 teams. Estimate 20 kids per team or come with your own number.

Our own area's rec team is down more than that.

1) Where does the 5400 number come from?
2) Generally doesn't include the inhouse leagues run by several entities like Arlington and Alexandria and other entities.
3) are some youth players playing in ML, STJ and the likes scooper programs that could be playing for the respective counties.

1) A conversation with the head of NVYLL.
2) and 3) Not aware of numbers or how that affects an area's rec programs. I know Arl, Alex still have teams in NVYLL.

There are probably more players doing club and no rec, but in toto you're talking about 2,400 boys short, 120 teams worth, and any answer for where some other players may be will fall well short of that.

Which is why, thread topic, there are fewer players at the high schools. Not all of them, but quite a few and without taking a poll probably the majority. Lacrosse is not special here, some other sports are feeling it, too. But it used to be a growth sport, one of the few. Now mature areas are bleeding even as growth spots in less dense playing areas are expanding some.

was that discussion just boys or girls and boys?

Read the thread title it says Boys lacrosse

[Anonymous]

Talking to some friends last night- it does sound like many schools are having trouble filling out their VEL teams. We maybe past peak lacrosse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the VEL director moved out of the area?

He did, but he is running VEL remotely, and I expect he will road trip back to NOVA and be on the sidelines for seven Sundays per year. I learned from a reliable source that all the usual suspects are playing in the elite division. I don't know if overall numbers are up or down over past years, but VEL is alive and well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse participation is down about 45% from peak in NoVa. I would guess something similar in DMV MD, as I know it's similar in Baltimore.
It's not first tremors and fewer babies doesn't begin to account for it, school sizes haven't changed around here. JV programs have been scrapped in many schools over the last several years. 7 on 7 games. JVs that are filled are now more often with 1st time players.
You are correct that specialization is a corollary, Johnnie is playing club and travelling everywhere, and not bringing his 3-5 buddies into the sport.

Where did you get the 45% number from? Is it 45% less players or teams?

I know the number was 5,400 @ a year in the past. Don't even know if that was the high water mark. Now, there are 149 teams. Estimate 20 kids per team or come with your own number.

Our own area's rec team is down more than that.

1) Where does the 5400 number come from?
2) Generally doesn't include the inhouse leagues run by several entities like Arlington and Alexandria and other entities.
3) are some youth players playing in ML, STJ and the likes scooper programs that could be playing for the respective counties.

1) A conversation with the head of NVYLL.
2) and 3) Not aware of numbers or how that affects an area's rec programs. I know Arl, Alex still have teams in NVYLL.

There are probably more players doing club and no rec, but in toto you're talking about 2,400 boys short, 120 teams worth, and any answer for where some other players may be will fall well short of that.

Which is why, thread topic, there are fewer players at the high schools. Not all of them, but quite a few and without taking a poll probably the majority. Lacrosse is not special here, some other sports are feeling it, too. But it used to be a growth sport, one of the few. Now mature areas are bleeding even as growth spots in less dense playing areas are expanding some.

was that discussion just boys or girls and boys?

It was just boys. Why am I being prompted with unending questions?

Because using your math of 20 boys per team, you're claiming that NVYLL once had around 270 teams playing in a single spring season. 4 age groups (14U, 12U, 10U, 8U) with 5 divisions (A, B, C, ect) per age group and you would have 13 teams per division. Having been around Nova lacrosse for close to 40 years now, there has never been a time I can remember that NVYLL or its predecessors came anywhere near that size of participation.

Lacrosse has been pretty predictable in this area. The growth was mainly from the suburban spread west to Loudoun county. The best area players still end up playing in the IAC/WCAC. Nova area public schools will place 3-12 kids in D1 programs. The claims of lacrosse dying in this area becuase kids don't play NVYLL is overblown. Lacrosse will be fine...right up until the House Settlement is finalized and the future of all non revenue sports at the D1 level comes into better focus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse participation is down about 45% from peak in NoVa. I would guess something similar in DMV MD, as I know it's similar in Baltimore.
It's not first tremors and fewer babies doesn't begin to account for it, school sizes haven't changed around here. JV programs have been scrapped in many schools over the last several years. 7 on 7 games. JVs that are filled are now more often with 1st time players.
You are correct that specialization is a corollary, Johnnie is playing club and travelling everywhere, and not bringing his 3-5 buddies into the sport.

Where did you get the 45% number from? Is it 45% less players or teams?

I know the number was 5,400 @ a year in the past. Don't even know if that was the high water mark. Now, there are 149 teams. Estimate 20 kids per team or come with your own number.

Our own area's rec team is down more than that.

1) Where does the 5400 number come from?
2) Generally doesn't include the inhouse leagues run by several entities like Arlington and Alexandria and other entities.
3) are some youth players playing in ML, STJ and the likes scooper programs that could be playing for the respective counties.

1) A conversation with the head of NVYLL.
2) and 3) Not aware of numbers or how that affects an area's rec programs. I know Arl, Alex still have teams in NVYLL.

There are probably more players doing club and no rec, but in toto you're talking about 2,400 boys short, 120 teams worth, and any answer for where some other players may be will fall well short of that.

Which is why, thread topic, there are fewer players at the high schools. Not all of them, but quite a few and without taking a poll probably the majority. Lacrosse is not special here, some other sports are feeling it, too. But it used to be a growth sport, one of the few. Now mature areas are bleeding even as growth spots in less dense playing areas are expanding some.

was that discussion just boys or girls and boys?

It was just boys. Why am I being prompted with unending questions?

Because using your math of 20 boys per team, you're claiming that NVYLL once had around 270 teams playing in a single spring season. 4 age groups (14U, 12U, 10U, 8U) with 5 divisions (A, B, C, ect) per age group and you would have 13 teams per division. Having been around Nova lacrosse for close to 40 years now, there has never been a time I can remember that NVYLL or its predecessors came anywhere near that size of participation.

Lacrosse has been pretty predictable in this area. The growth was mainly from the suburban spread west to Loudoun county. The best area players still end up playing in the IAC/WCAC. Nova area public schools will place 3-12 kids in D1 programs. The claims of lacrosse dying in this area becuase kids don't play NVYLL is overblown. Lacrosse will be fine...right up until the House Settlement is finalized and the future of all non revenue sports at the D1 level comes into better focus.

Thank you for eloquently stating my issues with the PPs position. Given this alleged conversation was with thr NVYLL director, I summerise that alleged 5400 kids comprises both girls and boys.and not just boys.

Can there be issues, sure. But my anecdotal evidence hasn't shown this and I've had kids I NVYLL programs for 10+ years.

[Anonymous]

What is VEL?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse participation is down about 45% from peak in NoVa. I would guess something similar in DMV MD, as I know it's similar in Baltimore.
It's not first tremors and fewer babies doesn't begin to account for it, school sizes haven't changed around here. JV programs have been scrapped in many schools over the last several years. 7 on 7 games. JVs that are filled are now more often with 1st time players.
You are correct that specialization is a corollary, Johnnie is playing club and travelling everywhere, and not bringing his 3-5 buddies into the sport.

Where did you get the 45% number from? Is it 45% less players or teams?

I know the number was 5,400 @ a year in the past. Don't even know if that was the high water mark. Now, there are 149 teams. Estimate 20 kids per team or come with your own number.

Our own area's rec team is down more than that.

1) Where does the 5400 number come from?
2) Generally doesn't include the inhouse leagues run by several entities like Arlington and Alexandria and other entities.
3) are some youth players playing in ML, STJ and the likes scooper programs that could be playing for the respective counties.

1) A conversation with the head of NVYLL.
2) and 3) Not aware of numbers or how that affects an area's rec programs. I know Arl, Alex still have teams in NVYLL.

There are probably more players doing club and no rec, but in toto you're talking about 2,400 boys short, 120 teams worth, and any answer for where some other players may be will fall well short of that.

Which is why, thread topic, there are fewer players at the high schools. Not all of them, but quite a few and without taking a poll probably the majority. Lacrosse is not special here, some other sports are feeling it, too. But it used to be a growth sport, one of the few. Now mature areas are bleeding even as growth spots in less dense playing areas are expanding some.

was that discussion just boys or girls and boys?

It was just boys. Why am I being prompted with unending questions?

Because using your math of 20 boys per team, you're claiming that NVYLL once had around 270 teams playing in a single spring season. 4 age groups (14U, 12U, 10U, 8U) with 5 divisions (A, B, C, ect) per age group and you would have 13 teams per division. Having been around Nova lacrosse for close to 40 years now, there has never been a time I can remember that NVYLL or its predecessors came anywhere near that size of participation.

Lacrosse has been pretty predictable in this area. The growth was mainly from the suburban spread west to Loudoun county. The best area players still end up playing in the IAC/WCAC. Nova area public schools will place 3-12 kids in D1 programs. The claims of lacrosse dying in this area becuase kids don't play NVYLL is overblown. Lacrosse will be fine...right up until the House Settlement is finalized and the future of all non revenue sports at the D1 level comes into better focus.

I'm not sure if you're confused or just have a weird agenda. Actually, back then it was U9, U11, U13 and U15, but you probably knew that. And your math 4 age groups and x5, that's PER CLUB. Not per division. Every club could conceivably have 20 teams, when they would border on getting bigger than that, they'd split. With 20+ programs, there could conceivably be as many as 450 or so teams. Oftentimes, they'd cut off registrations and still do when they couldn't fill a 3rd or 4th team at an age group. Which is/was a mistake IMO though they could bump to another nearby rec (where no friends are playing so they don't, another discussion.).

When divisions can be divided by 8-9, they simply add another division. There are divisions NOW with 14 teams FFS because the math doesn't allow to cut up for another, so not sure your point. There could be 4-5 eight or nine team divisions, or the 2 or 3 there are now.

As example, used to be there were at least 2 A divisions at every age, now there's 1 and one of them has like 5 or 6 teams.

Our smaller rec club always had at least 8 and often 10+ teams, and now there's 3. Ashburn I'm not even sure had a U8 in each of the last 2 years and they started Loudoun County. Ashburn!

Kids in numbers aren't playing rec lacrosse around here because of the NCAA House settlement or whatever comes out of it. Not that it can't make a comeback, but the momentum has reversed, and it was pretty predictable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rec lacrosse participation is down about 45% from peak in NoVa. I would guess something similar in DMV MD, as I know it's similar in Baltimore.
It's not first tremors and fewer babies doesn't begin to account for it, school sizes haven't changed around here. JV programs have been scrapped in many schools over the last several years. 7 on 7 games. JVs that are filled are now more often with 1st time players.
You are correct that specialization is a corollary, Johnnie is playing club and travelling everywhere, and not bringing his 3-5 buddies into the sport.

Where did you get the 45% number from? Is it 45% less players or teams?

I know the number was 5,400 @ a year in the past. Don't even know if that was the high water mark. Now, there are 149 teams. Estimate 20 kids per team or come with your own number.

Our own area's rec team is down more than that.

1) Where does the 5400 number come from?
2) Generally doesn't include the inhouse leagues run by several entities like Arlington and Alexandria and other entities.
3) are some youth players playing in ML, STJ and the likes scooper programs that could be playing for the respective counties.

1) A conversation with the head of NVYLL.
2) and 3) Not aware of numbers or how that affects an area's rec programs. I know Arl, Alex still have teams in NVYLL.

There are probably more players doing club and no rec, but in toto you're talking about 2,400 boys short, 120 teams worth, and any answer for where some other players may be will fall well short of that.

Which is why, thread topic, there are fewer players at the high schools. Not all of them, but quite a few and without taking a poll probably the majority. Lacrosse is not special here, some other sports are feeling it, too. But it used to be a growth sport, one of the few. Now mature areas are bleeding even as growth spots in less dense playing areas are expanding some.

was that discussion just boys or girls and boys?

It was just boys. Why am I being prompted with unending questions?

Because using your math of 20 boys per team, you're claiming that NVYLL once had around 270 teams playing in a single spring season. 4 age groups (14U, 12U, 10U, 8U) with 5 divisions (A, B, C, ect) per age group and you would have 13 teams per division. Having been around Nova lacrosse for close to 40 years now, there has never been a time I can remember that NVYLL or its predecessors came anywhere near that size of participation.

Lacrosse has been pretty predictable in this area. The growth was mainly from the suburban spread west to Loudoun county. The best area players still end up playing in the IAC/WCAC. Nova area public schools will place 3-12 kids in D1 programs. The claims of lacrosse dying in this area becuase kids don't play NVYLL is overblown. Lacrosse will be fine...right up until the House Settlement is finalized and the future of all non revenue sports at the D1 level comes into better focus.

Thank you for eloquently stating my issues with the PPs position. Given this alleged conversation was with thr NVYLL director, I summerise that alleged 5400 kids comprises both girls and boys.and not just boys.

Can there be issues, sure. But my anecdotal evidence hasn't shown this and I've had kids I NVYLL programs for 10+ years.

I like how you threw alleged in there. The conversation was centered around the dropoff in rec, was one of 2 subjects of discussion at the very beginning of the club encroachment to spring. It was already happening. Which has only gotten worse since. But thanks for the summary on a conversation you weren't actually at.

Ask a high school coach that's been there awhile and isn't fed by Vienna or Dulles South how it's going. Actually, you can ask a DS hs coach because now it's the same numbers or less for twice as many schools and population.