Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Oh snap! PPs bet wrong- both Kerri and Marcia back!

That was brutal, not that I minded. But for a twist of fate, the $63 million apartment could have been Kerri's in a matter of months. I would also Marcia would have an ironclad prenup in place, will be interesting to see how that pans out.

They showed her negotiating her post-nup after Logan's affair with the Holly Hunter character. We know it was very generous to Marcia.

Do you think she was honest when she said that her and Logan talked every day?

No way. I wish they'd check phone records.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The GYN said something about the amnio taking care of the other concern they had. It sounds to me like Shiv previously had a test with a worrisome result.

True, but I'm still going to chalk it up to the GYN having "concerns" that there were billable, unnecessary screening tests that her super rich patient would pay for without question.

My insurance paid for amnio. If you're of "advanced maternal age" (35+) they will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why was Roman so nice to Kerry? You'd think he didn't give a rats ass about her.

That's what I wondered too. He seemed genuinely sorry for the way Kerry was being treated.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Oh snap! PPs bet wrong- both Kerri and Marcia back!

Well, I wouldn't call Kerry "back." But indeed, Marcia was not shopping in Milan forever. She is mean as a snake. Her interaction with Willa was everything. Oh man.

And I guess there was also a Succession Final Season thread. I'm being annoying, but I called Shiv being pregnant too. At this point that almost seems like it didn't happen. That was crazy.

But Will had a great response. Marcia sucks.

And why was Greg on the letter???

I agree! I thought good for Willa

Can either of you summarize what was said? I don't remember.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have (re)watched episodes of this show scores of times and I thought Roman was the youngest!!

It certainly seems like it - Shiv seems so much older than him, behavior-wise.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh snap! PPs bet wrong- both Kerri and Marcia back!

Well, I wouldn't call Kerry "back." But indeed, Marcia was not shopping in Milan forever. She is mean as a snake. Her interaction with Willa was everything. Oh man.

And I guess there was also a Succession Final Season thread. I'm being annoying, but I called Shiv being pregnant too. At this point that almost seems like it didn't happen. That was crazy.

But Will had a great response. Marcia sucks.

And why was Greg on the letter???

I agree! I thought good for Willa

Can either of you summarize what was said? I don't remember.

It was something like: Marcia, snarkily "Willa, congratulations. You've come a long way." Willa, "Thanks. You, too."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m pretty rich and I don’t know anyone who got an amnio unless something came up on the earlier tests. Extra scans? Sure! But amnio has serious risks.

I had an amnio with all of my kids. Because I wanted to know if there were any birth defects ahead of time. No surprises.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why is Greg on the paper?

What pills were Roman taking off Logan’s desk towards the end in the meeting with Hugo and Karolina?

Why would Connor want his father’s apartment? This intrigues me that even though he was probably very neglected or loves by Logan he would want to buy Logan’s apartment.

Why is Willa’s mother still following Willa and Connor around?

m

Because they just got married yesterday- she was in town for the wedding- remember each episode is only one day. So the wedding was yesterday afternoon and now it’s the following morning. Makes total sense for the mother of the bride to still be there! There was probably supposed to be some sort of post- wedding brunch.

The mother of the bride would tag along to a meeting about his dead father/arrangements? I cannot imagine my mother doing that. Its a weird quirk they threw in there.

She wasn't there for the meeting, she was there for the wake. There were a lot of other people there that weren't going to the board meeting.

+1
I didn't think Willa's mom being there was strange at all. She was there for their wedding, which was the day before. Of course she's going to attend the wake of her new son-in-law's father.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I 100% thought that the death was a huge hoax by Logan - that he was testing his kids to see how they would react to his death and what they would say to him in those last minutes. I fully expected him to walk into the boat and make some awful, disparaging remarks to them, after humiliating them. Glad that didn’t happen - that would have just been too cruel.

I was especially moved by both Kendall and Tom in this episode. Tom was so kind to Shiv.

The dialogue is getting weaker and weaker - so many f*cks peppering the conversation. It’s beyond old and strikes me as lazy.

I found Tom fascinating in this episode because I think he genuinely felt for Shiv in that moment, but I also think his kindness was at least 30% him realizing that with Logan dead, Shiv is his only real lifeline. Without her, he’s all the way out.

And I love how there were thematic parallels between that situation and Connor/Willa, with Connor straight up asking Willa if she was just in it fir the money and her getting very honest that the money is absolutely a big part of it for her.

I think the dialogue was very f**k heavy in this episode because everyone was in shock and didn’t know what to say, and people get kind of dumb in that situation. It’s realistic— people don’t give eloquent speeches in this situation. They can’t really process their feelings fast enough.

PP here and I agree with 99% of your post. But the f*ck issue is in every.single.episode. It's almost as if they're told to ad lib and they use constant profanity as a crutch while they think of what to say. Either that or the writers are incredibly lazy.

What if the writers aren’t lazy but the kids just aren’t that smart and they can’t think of what to say? Shiv, Roman, Tom, Greg are all pretty inarticulate and sub curse words for original thoughts. I think it’s very intentional that the writers use curse words instead of anything else.

There are some hilarious dirty insults. Incredibly witty and fast paced.

https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists/amp

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/26/health/swearing-benefits-wellness/index.html

I have run in some highly intellectual, extremely wealthy circles and it’s an art form.

Dolts on dcum get their panties in a twist and mistake it for being classless. It couldn’t be further from the reality.

And I loved VEEP with Selena and Dan and Amy’s profanity Abe hilarious cut downs.

Well, it can be both classless and common to the upper classes at the same time. Let's not confuse money with taste, sensitivity, or manners.

+1. One thing the show nails is how Kendall dresses obnoxiously casually all the time because he doesn't feel he has to dress up for anything. He wears sweatshirts to the office. He wore a baseball cap to his brother's rehearsal dinner, where he barely acknowledged it was a rehearsal dinner and stayed for 20 minutes. He did bother to wear a suit to the wedding itself, but no tie and didn't button his shirt all the way. Yes, I get some of these are "fashion" choices, but the point is that he feels he can simply make a personal style choice no matter the venue or occasion because he's very rich and doesn't feel he has to conform to social norms. And sure, his sweatshirts and baseball caps likely cost more than many people's wedding gowns, but that doesn't magically make them more formal or respectful to others.

People made a big deal about Shiv's ponytail at the wedding but lots of very wealthy women dress kind of terribly or have sloppy hair or clothes. Again, they might spend a lot on it, but that doesn't mean it looks that way or that they feel like they have to conform to anyone's expectations.

The swearing is the same. These are people who are used to not having to play by the rules. Sometimes they choose to be sophisticated, but they don't have to -- they can say f**k all they want, dress down, treat people poorly, etc., and unlike for the rest of us, there are no consequences. None of them is getting fired for swearing or not following a dress code. They won't lose friends over it either, because their friends are all there because of the money, too. I mean, Willa married Connor while openly admitting the money was a major reason why (and let's get real, any affection she has for him was developed after latching onto him for the money).

The poor language and bad clothes are of a piece with their overall awful behavior. The whole point of this show is that these people do not have to play by the same rules as the rest of us. People who don't understand that are like the people who rooted for Tony Soprano and Walter White. The point just whooshing right over their simple minds.

What a strange, strange post - especially your last sentences. But I get that you think you're far sharper and more clever than everyone else.
DP

What is strange about it? This is a well-known phenomenon -- people who root for the anti-heroes in shows that show them at their worst. Lots of people absolutely rooted for Tony and Walter to get away with their criminal behavior (including murder), and plenty of people root for the people on Succession to successfully get away with their own bad behavior (including stuff like Kendall getting away with killing that kid in the car crash) or chuckle at stuff like Roman's rocket exploding or all the malfeasance/abuse that occurred in Waystar's cruise business. Being able to watch these shows and not forget your ethical compass, and be able to empathize with these people without actually rooting for them to successfully kill, swindle, exploit, etc., is not a sign of being sharper or more clever, but it is a sign of having more self-awareness and not being so easily swayed by a work of fiction.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m pretty rich and I don’t know anyone who got an amnio unless something came up on the earlier tests. Extra scans? Sure! But amnio has serious risks.

Wealth doesn't matter. If you're over 35 or have a problematic genetic history, amnio is recommended as a matter of course.

Is this based on personal experience? I had my first at 37 and the doctor was very much of the opinion that it was up to me. There are less invasive tests with less definitive results, most people do those first and will only do amnio if something comes up, because amnio carries a risk of miscarriage. It's as high as 1 in 100 amnios result in miscarriage -- that's extremely high! So I did not get one after earlier tests were clear (and with no history of genetic abnormalities and no flags raised on my early ultrasounds).

However, I do think wealth plays a role. There is a difference between "pretty rich" and Shiv Roy. We're talking about the richest people in the world. As I mentioned earlier, Shiv is not just going to a regular OB. She's going to doctors who only service the ultra rich, probably do a lot via house call, likely sign NDAs before working with them, etc. Shiv can afford to pay for the doctor whose done 3000 amnios and never had a bad result, so if she wants to get an amnio and be assured of the most limited risk possible, she can. She's not a Big Law attorney, she's a billionaire.

These people are not like us, any of us. And that extends to healthcare, pregnancy, risk assessment, etc. They make decisions differently than we do.

DP. Good grief, could you possibly stop fixating on the amnio? Plenty of women, including me, have had multiple amnios. It's a test that is regularly done, especially if the mother is 35+. Move on!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Greg on the paper?

What pills were Roman taking off Logan’s desk towards the end in the meeting with Hugo and Karolina?

Why would Connor want his father’s apartment? This intrigues me that even though he was probably very neglected or loves by Logan he would want to buy Logan’s apartment.

Why is Willa’s mother still following Willa and Connor around?

Did Roman pop a few of those pills? I thought I saw that but I didn't rewind to make sure.

Yes. So whatever they were, it was something another person might want to take casually. He also “crunched” them rather than swallow whole, which I noticed because I’m on a lot of meds and they’re always terrible and I can’t imagine chewing one. That may or may not be a hint to the type of meds — it’s also possible the director had him chew to help make it more obvious that he was taking one.

Logan had that UTI last season and vitamin c is often recommended to prevent recurrent infection – and vitamin c is often chewable…

But I didn’t get a good look at the bottle to see if it was Rx or not.

it was a prescription bottle. Kerry also had a prescription bottle fall out of her bag when she spilled the bag of "stuff" Marcia gave her.

He was Taking stuff to make his sperm more potent right?? Maybe it was something like that

Or his beef stick hard.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think some of you are way off on the amnio thing. It makes perfect sense. They would clearly do the cell free DNA test (as most of us do, I think? I definitely did) and then the 12 week scan. There are several things that can get flagged by one of those where you then basically have to wait a few weeks and do the amnio to have a definitive answer. Like Spina Bifida. So in the story, it makes sense that maybe since the pregnancy was maybe not going to work out she put off telling Tom, and now that she has the all clear from the amnio she knows she’s going to have to tell him.

Genetic amniocentesis is usually done between weeks 14 and 20 of pregnancy. Amniocentesis done before week 14 of pregnancy might lead to more complications.

Reasons to consider genetic amniocentesis include:

Having positive results from a prenatal screening test. If the results of a screening test — such as the first-trimester screen or prenatal cell-free DNA screening — show high risk or are worrisome, amniocentesis might confirm or rule out a diagnosis.
Having an earlier pregnancy affected by a genetic condition. A health care provider might suggest amniocentesis to look for that condition.
Being 35 or older. Babies born to people 35 and older have a higher risk of chromosomal conditions, such as Down syndrome. A health care provider might suggest amniocentesis to rule out these conditions if prenatal cell-free DNA screening is positive.
Having a family history of a genetic condition, or if the parents are carriers of a genetic condition. Besides identifying Down syndrome, amniocentesis can be used to diagnose other genetic conditions, such as cystic fibrosis.
Having unusual ultrasound findings. A health care provider might recommend amniocentesis to diagnose or rule out genetic conditions associated with unusual ultrasound findings.

You guys are reading way too much into this. They talked about an amnio to 1) tell us shiv was pregnant, and 2) to tell us how far along she was (since it’s done later on, and they also snuck in the 20 week scan comment). That’s it. It’s not a detailed medical drama focusing on insurance claims and ICD10 codes.

Kendall has one biological son with autism (possibly more). His daughter is adopted. Shiv had the amino because she’s afraid of the baby having any type of defect.

Shiv may have had another baby with birth defects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of you are way off on the amnio thing. It makes perfect sense. They would clearly do the cell free DNA test (as most of us do, I think? I definitely did) and then the 12 week scan. There are several things that can get flagged by one of those where you then basically have to wait a few weeks and do the amnio to have a definitive answer. Like Spina Bifida. So in the story, it makes sense that maybe since the pregnancy was maybe not going to work out she put off telling Tom, and now that she has the all clear from the amnio she knows she’s going to have to tell him.

Genetic amniocentesis is usually done between weeks 14 and 20 of pregnancy. Amniocentesis done before week 14 of pregnancy might lead to more complications.

Reasons to consider genetic amniocentesis include:

Having positive results from a prenatal screening test. If the results of a screening test — such as the first-trimester screen or prenatal cell-free DNA screening — show high risk or are worrisome, amniocentesis might confirm or rule out a diagnosis.
Having an earlier pregnancy affected by a genetic condition. A health care provider might suggest amniocentesis to look for that condition.
Being 35 or older. Babies born to people 35 and older have a higher risk of chromosomal conditions, such as Down syndrome. A health care provider might suggest amniocentesis to rule out these conditions if prenatal cell-free DNA screening is positive.
Having a family history of a genetic condition, or if the parents are carriers of a genetic condition. Besides identifying Down syndrome, amniocentesis can be used to diagnose other genetic conditions, such as cystic fibrosis.
Having unusual ultrasound findings. A health care provider might recommend amniocentesis to diagnose or rule out genetic conditions associated with unusual ultrasound findings.

You guys are reading way too much into this. They talked about an amnio to 1) tell us shiv was pregnant, and 2) to tell us how far along she was (since it’s done later on, and they also snuck in the 20 week scan comment). That’s it. It’s not a detailed medical drama focusing on insurance claims and ICD10 codes.

Kendall has one biological son with autism (possibly more). His daughter is adopted. Shiv had the amino because she’s afraid of the baby having any type of defect.

Oh, disagree. It doesn’t test for autism anyway, obviously. She would have done the amnio because of something flagged in the NIPT or the 12 week scan. I personally would want one in that case even if it would have no bearing on whether I considered terminating.

+1
Always better to be prepared than not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of you are way off on the amnio thing. It makes perfect sense. They would clearly do the cell free DNA test (as most of us do, I think? I definitely did) and then the 12 week scan. There are several things that can get flagged by one of those where you then basically have to wait a few weeks and do the amnio to have a definitive answer. Like Spina Bifida. So in the story, it makes sense that maybe since the pregnancy was maybe not going to work out she put off telling Tom, and now that she has the all clear from the amnio she knows she’s going to have to tell him.

Genetic amniocentesis is usually done between weeks 14 and 20 of pregnancy. Amniocentesis done before week 14 of pregnancy might lead to more complications.

Reasons to consider genetic amniocentesis include:

Having positive results from a prenatal screening test. If the results of a screening test — such as the first-trimester screen or prenatal cell-free DNA screening — show high risk or are worrisome, amniocentesis might confirm or rule out a diagnosis.
Having an earlier pregnancy affected by a genetic condition. A health care provider might suggest amniocentesis to look for that condition.
Being 35 or older. Babies born to people 35 and older have a higher risk of chromosomal conditions, such as Down syndrome. A health care provider might suggest amniocentesis to rule out these conditions if prenatal cell-free DNA screening is positive.
Having a family history of a genetic condition, or if the parents are carriers of a genetic condition. Besides identifying Down syndrome, amniocentesis can be used to diagnose other genetic conditions, such as cystic fibrosis.
Having unusual ultrasound findings. A health care provider might recommend amniocentesis to diagnose or rule out genetic conditions associated with unusual ultrasound findings.

You guys are reading way too much into this. They talked about an amnio to 1) tell us shiv was pregnant, and 2) to tell us how far along she was (since it’s done later on, and they also snuck in the 20 week scan comment). That’s it. It’s not a detailed medical drama focusing on insurance claims and ICD10 codes.

Kendall has one biological son with autism (possibly more). His daughter is adopted. Shiv had the amino because she’s afraid of the baby having any type of defect.

Shiv may have had another baby with birth defects.

The doctor said there were concerns based on testing she had had. My first blood test showed a possibility of Downs. I would have needed to follow up with an amnio to determine with certainty. I elected not to, but many do. Very common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Greg on the paper?

What pills were Roman taking off Logan’s desk towards the end in the meeting with Hugo and Karolina?

Why would Connor want his father’s apartment? This intrigues me that even though he was probably very neglected or loves by Logan he would want to buy Logan’s apartment.

Why is Willa’s mother still following Willa and Connor around?

m

Because they just got married yesterday- she was in town for the wedding- remember each episode is only one day. So the wedding was yesterday afternoon and now it’s the following morning. Makes total sense for the mother of the bride to still be there! There was probably supposed to be some sort of post- wedding brunch.

The mother of the bride would tag along to a meeting about his dead father/arrangements? I cannot imagine my mother doing that. Its a weird quirk they threw in there.

She wasn't there for the meeting, she was there for the wake. There were a lot of other people there that weren't going to the board meeting.

+1
I didn't think Willa's mom being there was strange at all. She was there for their wedding, which was the day before. Of course she's going to attend the wake of her new son-in-law's father.

I agree, I didn't find it odd in the context of it being the day after Connor's wedding. It also felt in keeping with a theme of the episode, of people coming to the wake in order to make themselves larger or more important by proximity to Logan's death. Like when they find out that Mencken, the Republic presidential candidate, is coming over, and when that creepy libertarian guy shows up and starts giving a speech making it sound like he and Logan were really tight. The whole point is that all the hangers are are there trying to get a piece of the pie. Marcia is pretending like she and Logan weren't estranged when he died, Kerry is showing up claiming she and Logan were going to get married, Greg is walking around trying to ingratiate himself to everyone he can, Tom is sucking up to the management team and to Shiv, alternately (even if his feelings for Shiv are genuine, the timing of his plea is not just some random coincidence). So yeah, Willa's mom is like one of the least surprising/offensive people in the room because she has a reason to be in town and it is not weird that she'd go to pay her respects to Logan, but of course she also doesn't mind being in that proximity to power/money either.