How could my child's iq have gone down?

[Anonymous]

My daughter was given the WISC IV at 7 years 9 months and received an iq score of 124. Both Verbal & Non Verbal were in the high 90's, Working Memory 75th, and processing speed 3rd - yes that's right 3rd percentile.
She was just recently given the WISC V at 9 years 6 month, this time her overall score was 111. Her processing and working memory both increased to 27th and 93rd percentiles respectively, but her verbal and visual-spatial dropped to 77th and 83rd percentiles. I guess I'm just flabbergasted how a child's iq can decrease by 13 points in less than two years. Nothing stressful has happened in her life. She was not sick at the time of testing and she had received a good night's sleep.

[Anonymous]

Two different tests with different norms. Google the Flynn effect.

[Anonymous]

Also see this thread on Davidson board:

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/214194/Comparing_WISC_IV_WISC_V.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two different tests with different norms. Google the Flynn effect.

I thought the Flynn effect had to do with average iq scores increasing historically. How would this explain an individual child's iq decreasing by 13 points in two years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two different tests with different norms. Google the Flynn effect.

I thought the Flynn effect had to do with average iq scores increasing historically. How would this explain an individual child's iq decreasing by 13 points in two years?

From the link provided by 13:14 --

You will not be comparing apples to apples, though they should still be in the same ballpark. There are actually a few issues in comparing:

1. Different overall test structure: The WISC-V has five primary indices, consisting of Verbal Comprehension, Visual Spatial, Fluid Reasoning (these two used to be combined in Perceptual Reasoning), Working Memory, and Processing Speed. There are also a bunch of ancillary indices, which may or may not be administered, including measures of quantitative reasoning, pre-literacy measures, etc.

2. Different subtests contributing to the index scores: Each index is calculated from two subtests, instead of two or three, as on the WISC-IV. This means intra-cluster subtest variation has the potential for a greater impact. There are also new subtests in the primary indices. For example, Visual Spatial consists of the old block design (new items, of course) and the visual puzzles subtest, and Fluid Reasoning is composed of the old matrix reasoning and the new figure weights. Working Memory now has one visual span and one auditory span measure. The subtests themselves are not truly new, as the majority of them have been in the WAIS or WPPSI in the past. Just not the WISC.

3. Equally important, the norms are much newer than WISC-IVs administered three years ago: Her brothers took the test on nearly-decade old norms (WISC-IV was published 2003, so the norms were probably collected in 2002, but they took the test in 2012, so ten years old). She is taking the test in the first year of publication, on norms that are less than a year old. According to most estimates of the Flynn effect, the average score inflation due to norm obsolescence is about 3 FSIQ points per decade--but the rate of inflation is believed to be significantly higher for the high cognitive population.

[Anonymous]

My daughter's highest score was 143 at age 7 then she went down to 129 the following year. I was told that they test differently at different times.

[Anonymous]

Each time you take an iq test there is a range of score you could get it you we to retake the test. For example an iq of 95 could have a range of 90-100. In other words if the same person were to retake the test they would likely score somewhere in that range. An iq test does nOt have the reliability to produce the exact same score every time.

Also your child may have gotten different scores because the wisc-4 has different norms than the wisc-5

[Anonymous]

Because these tests aren't perfect.

[Anonymous]

So will WISC-V always be lower when the child takes it than when they took the WISC-IV?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter was given the WISC IV at 7 years 9 months and received an iq score of 124. Both Verbal & Non Verbal were in the high 90's, Working Memory 75th, and processing speed 3rd - yes that's right 3rd percentile.
She was just recently given the WISC V at 9 years 6 month, this time her overall score was 111. Her processing and working memory both increased to 27th and 93rd percentiles respectively, but her verbal and visual-spatial dropped to 77th and 83rd percentiles. I guess I'm just flabbergasted how a child's iq can decrease by 13 points in less than two years. Nothing stressful has happened in her life. She was not sick at the time of testing and she had received a good night's sleep.

Did you do further pyschoeducational testing to look for ADHD? My child had high scores on WISC-V in 98 and 99% but then had 40th in processing so they want him to be tested for ADHD. He shows NO signs of ADHD so we do plan to get him tested but I really don't think he has it. I just wonder if anyone shows poor processing and it's for some reason other than ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So will WISC-V always be lower when the child takes it than when they took the WISC-IV?

Not necessarily. The point is that you should not worry about it. Your kid is smart. IQ is not an exact science. It means very little in the grand scheme of things and many people with extraordinary IQs turn out to be total failures anyway.

[Anonymous]

Not always, but usually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter was given the WISC IV at 7 years 9 months and received an iq score of 124. Both Verbal & Non Verbal were in the high 90's, Working Memory 75th, and processing speed 3rd - yes that's right 3rd percentile.
She was just recently given the WISC V at 9 years 6 month, this time her overall score was 111. Her processing and working memory both increased to 27th and 93rd percentiles respectively, but her verbal and visual-spatial dropped to 77th and 83rd percentiles. I guess I'm just flabbergasted how a child's iq can decrease by 13 points in less than two years. Nothing stressful has happened in her life. She was not sick at the time of testing and she had received a good night's sleep.

Did you do further pyschoeducational testing to look for ADHD? My child had high scores on WISC-V in 98 and 99% but then had 40th in processing so they want him to be tested for ADHD. He shows NO signs of ADHD so we do plan to get him tested but I really don't think he has it. I just wonder if anyone shows poor processing and it's for some reason other than ADHD.

No but we suspected an LD which is why we had the testing done in the first place. I don't know if the discrepancy between her processing and other scores is due to an LD, ADHD, or if that's just how she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So will WISC-V always be lower when the child takes it than when they took the WISC-IV?

Not necessarily. The point is that you should not worry about it. Your kid is smart. IQ is not an exact science. It means very little in the grand scheme of things and many people with extraordinary IQs turn out to be total failures anyway.

This. And unless your child has some sort of learning disability, I would wonder why you would have her IQ tested at 7 and then again at 9. I've got three kids who are doing well in high school and college, respectively, and I have no idea what their IQ is.

[Anonymous]

^^never mind. i hadn't seen the previous message.