APS middle school boundary process

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:S Arlington is apparently fine with having multiple schools at 60%+ farms. The residents have continued to champion low cost housing developers and chose to buy there. They should be fine with Kenmore at 50%+ too.

Nice try. Nope. Please enjoy some of our vibrancy when you attends BTSN at Kenmore.

What's BTSN? My kids will be at Williamsburg in the far north of Arlington; maybe they have it there.

Back to school night.
And no, you will not have vibrancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:S Arlington is apparently fine with having multiple schools at 60%+ farms. The residents have continued to champion low cost housing developers and chose to buy there. They should be fine with Kenmore at 50%+ too.

Nice try. Nope. Please enjoy some of our vibrancy when you attends BTSN at Kenmore.

What's BTSN? My kids will be at Williamsburg in the far north of Arlington; maybe they have it there.

Back to school night.
And no, you will not have vibrancy.

I was talking about farms levels... Are you saying that "vibrancy" only exists with high poverty levels? Interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:S Arlington is apparently fine with having multiple schools at 60%+ farms. The residents have continued to champion low cost housing developers and chose to buy there. They should be fine with Kenmore at 50%+ too.

Nice try. Nope. Please enjoy some of our vibrancy when you attends BTSN at Kenmore.

What's BTSN? My kids will be at Williamsburg in the far north of Arlington; maybe they have it there.

Surely not. I mean, you can't even get lights on your aritifical fields. No vibrancy whatsoever to be had up there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am just exhausted with Arlington County and APS. The County lets these companies concentrate poverty in the south and then APS throws its hands up in the air and puts the problem on me. I've already taken it for the team at McKinley, but APS is telling me it's my turn again. You suck, APS.

The people of Madison Manor and Dominion Hills need to unite as one strong voice. That is how Taylor got their neighborhood MS and how Nottingham kept the planning units (that they could accommodate) out of their school. The difference here is that those were schools acting as one loud voice, but you won't get that at McKinley. The PTA is known for refusing to rock the boat, so you have to work as a neighborhood. That area hasn't really ever had an organized movement. It's just a few parents trying to fight the fight for everyone. That doesn't work. APS has shown you that. You've got to come at the board from every angle if you have any chance of staying at Swanson. FWIW, I do think it's ridiculous that 22207/22213 call out for diversity knowing their won't have to be inconvenienced. But, you know that's how this county works.

You're getting the Reed school already. It stinks that it won't be in time for your kids, but why should you be mad at south Arlington parents who had nothing to do with what happened with the last ES boundary? Seriously, if instead of fighting being moved to Kenmore, perhaps you could come up with an alternative map that better balances demographics I think you'd have allies.

I'm not mad at South Arlington parents. I'm angry with the county for allowing all this housing to be built in the south with no thought to spreading out FARMs, and I'm mad at APS for putting another burden on my family when they have already burdened us but not our neighbors in the north.

And to the first PP, I'm not sure if I should mobilize for this. I believe in diversity. Should I be ready to accept the move from 13/20 % farms at Swanso. (20 is what's predicted on several of the other plans for Swanson) or should I fight for the best education for my particular kid, which a. Riding to the social science research, is NOT at at school that is at the tipping point of 45% poverty.

And how in the HELL am I supposed to trust ANYTHING APS tells me at this point when they reassured us McKinley would not be too overpopulated, and then we ARE, totally, totally over our expected numbers, and APS refuses to do SHIT except sometimes let a few kids transfer out to an underbursened school if the parents fight hard enough.

APS, you suck so, so hard. I am so frustrated and tired of all your "we listen to the loudest complainers but don't in any way fix the underlying problems" bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
my kids are in elementary school- I thought the middle school bell rang at 7:30? and you need some time to go to your locker and get to your desk.

That's great that your kids walk 30 minutes and think it is a great way to start the day. And there are great benefits to it, yada yada yada. However- that is not how most people behave. I'm not arguing the benefits one way or another-- and FWIW I actually think the need for diversity outweighs the 'walk' cry. I just think there is a problem that we are using different language. You look at the options and they show a high walk zone- then people are saying you are turning walkers into bus riders. My point is what you are really doing is turning (maybe walkers- I don't totally believe this) into likely car riders. Perhaps that tradeoff is worth it- I would tend to say it is. But lets be honest about it.

The bell rings at 7:50. I think kids can get into the building at 7:20.

I am also willing to trade walkability for diversity, at least up to a point. And I think no matter where kids go, there are a lot of parents who are going to drive them because of the weather or road hazards or the backpacks or the start time or or or. (Pauses for chorus of "No, my kids really walk!")

But 1.5 miles is totally reasonable. And the parents who think it isn't are unreasonable about a lot of things -- I don't think there's much point in trying to make them happy.

The funny thing is that a lot of parents were just advocating for smaller walk zones on AEM. I wonder if any of the same parents are fighting to protect their walk zones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
my kids are in elementary school- I thought the middle school bell rang at 7:30? and you need some time to go to your locker and get to your desk.

That's great that your kids walk 30 minutes and think it is a great way to start the day. And there are great benefits to it, yada yada yada. However- that is not how most people behave. I'm not arguing the benefits one way or another-- and FWIW I actually think the need for diversity outweighs the 'walk' cry. I just think there is a problem that we are using different language. You look at the options and they show a high walk zone- then people are saying you are turning walkers into bus riders. My point is what you are really doing is turning (maybe walkers- I don't totally believe this) into likely car riders. Perhaps that tradeoff is worth it- I would tend to say it is. But lets be honest about it.

The bell rings at 7:50. I think kids can get into the building at 7:20.

I am also willing to trade walkability for diversity, at least up to a point. And I think no matter where kids go, there are a lot of parents who are going to drive them because of the weather or road hazards or the backpacks or the start time or or or. (Pauses for chorus of "No, my kids really walk!")

But 1.5 miles is totally reasonable. And the parents who think it isn't are unreasonable about a lot of things -- I don't think there's much point in trying to make them happy.

The funny thing is that a lot of parents were just advocating for smaller walk zones on AEM. I wonder if any of the same parents are fighting to protect their walk zones.

This. I'd say make 1-mile walk zone around each MS and then put everything else on the table for shifting between schools to level out FARMs levels (and I say this as one whose kids walk from the edge of the 1.5 mile walk zone and would still walk if a bus was an option because they hate riding the bus)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
my kids are in elementary school- I thought the middle school bell rang at 7:30? and you need some time to go to your locker and get to your desk.

That's great that your kids walk 30 minutes and think it is a great way to start the day. And there are great benefits to it, yada yada yada. However- that is not how most people behave. I'm not arguing the benefits one way or another-- and FWIW I actually think the need for diversity outweighs the 'walk' cry. I just think there is a problem that we are using different language. You look at the options and they show a high walk zone- then people are saying you are turning walkers into bus riders. My point is what you are really doing is turning (maybe walkers- I don't totally believe this) into likely car riders. Perhaps that tradeoff is worth it- I would tend to say it is. But lets be honest about it.

The bell rings at 7:50. I think kids can get into the building at 7:20.

I am also willing to trade walkability for diversity, at least up to a point. And I think no matter where kids go, there are a lot of parents who are going to drive them because of the weather or road hazards or the backpacks or the start time or or or. (Pauses for chorus of "No, my kids really walk!")

But 1.5 miles is totally reasonable. And the parents who think it isn't are unreasonable about a lot of things -- I don't think there's much point in trying to make them happy.

The funny thing is that a lot of parents were just advocating for smaller walk zones on AEM. I wonder if any of the same parents are fighting to protect their walk zones.

This. I'd say make 1-mile walk zone around each MS and then put everything else on the table for shifting between schools to level out FARMs levels (and I say this as one whose kids walk from the edge of the 1.5 mile walk zone and would still walk if a bus was an option because they hate riding the bus)

I like this plan. I wonder what maps they'd be able to come up with under this scenario.

[Anonymous]

The funny thing is that a lot of parents were just advocating for smaller walk zones on AEM. I wonder if any of the same parents are fighting to protect their walk zones.

This. I'd say make 1-mile walk zone around each MS and then put everything else on the table for shifting between schools to level out FARMs levels (and I say this as one whose kids walk from the edge of the 1.5 mile walk zone and would still walk if a bus was an option because they hate riding the bus)

oh yes- they are fighting hard. They are essentially reading into it a 1 mile walk zone-however.

I think this map shows the problem with doing what you suggest- As you can see there are these pockets that are not in the walk-zone, but can't be bused other than to one school without either 1)violating contiguity or 2)breaking up someone else's walk zone. Incidentally- its not just going to be a contiguity problem but also an alignment and proximity problem.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/MS_Potential_WZ_Draft4.pdf
Looking at that map- the far western corner of the county is wealthy- but it can only be bused to Williamsburg or Swanson-
In order to move those current Swanson bus-riders to Kenmore-you also pick up Madison Manor, which currently walks to Swanson.

Similarly the large Northern corner- Jamestown territory- extremely wealthy- can only be bused to Williamsburg or the new school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not mad at South Arlington parents. I'm angry with the county for allowing all this housing to be built in the south with no thought to spreading out FARMs, and I'm mad at APS for putting another burden on my family when they have already burdened us but not our neighbors in the north.

FWIW- I think the narrative that the county has caused AH to be built in the South thereby leading to high FARMS populations is also a false narrative.
The high FARMS population in the south comes more from market rate affordable units (e.g. the housing that has existed there forever) then from CAF's. There used to be a lot more market rate affordable units in the north- particularly in the Glebe district, and around Rosslyn. Those areas have really gentrified. the cost of housing in Arlington has skyrocketed and a lot more market rate units have been lost in the North.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The funny thing is that a lot of parents were just advocating for smaller walk zones on AEM. I wonder if any of the same parents are fighting to protect their walk zones.

This. I'd say make 1-mile walk zone around each MS and then put everything else on the table for shifting between schools to level out FARMs levels (and I say this as one whose kids walk from the edge of the 1.5 mile walk zone and would still walk if a bus was an option because they hate riding the bus)

oh yes- they are fighting hard. They are essentially reading into it a 1 mile walk zone-however.

I think this map shows the problem with doing what you suggest- As you can see there are these pockets that are not in the walk-zone, but can't be bused other than to one school without either 1)violating contiguity or 2)breaking up someone else's walk zone. Incidentally- its not just going to be a contiguity problem but also an alignment and proximity problem.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/MS_Potential_WZ_Draft4.pdf
Looking at that map- the far western corner of the county is wealthy- but it can only be bused to Williamsburg or Swanson-
In order to move those current Swanson bus-riders to Kenmore-you also pick up Madison Manor, which currently walks to Swanson.

Similarly the large Northern corner- Jamestown territory- extremely wealthy- can only be bused to Williamsburg or the new school.

yes, to make this work, they'd have to decide the contiguity is not a priority. Also, that map shows the 1.5 mile walk zones, not 1 mile walk zones. If you take it down to 1 mile, there is more space between the schools.

[Anonymous]

It would definitely make more sense to make the walk zone a mile or less. Then you don't have the 2 blocks away people getting screwed, but you can still pull buses from more areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not mad at South Arlington parents. I'm angry with the county for allowing all this housing to be built in the south with no thought to spreading out FARMs, and I'm mad at APS for putting another burden on my family when they have already burdened us but not our neighbors in the north.

FWIW- I think the narrative that the county has caused AH to be built in the South thereby leading to high FARMS populations is also a false narrative.
The high FARMS population in the south comes more from market rate affordable units (e.g. the housing that has existed there forever) then from CAF's. There used to be a lot more market rate affordable units in the north- particularly in the Glebe district, and around Rosslyn. Those areas have really gentrified. the cost of housing in Arlington has skyrocketed and a lot more market rate units have been lost in the North.

Then it should just be a matter of time before those market rate affordable units are torn down to create "townhomes from 600k..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not mad at South Arlington parents. I'm angry with the county for allowing all this housing to be built in the south with no thought to spreading out FARMs, and I'm mad at APS for putting another burden on my family when they have already burdened us but not our neighbors in the north.

FWIW- I think the narrative that the county has caused AH to be built in the South thereby leading to high FARMS populations is also a false narrative.
The high FARMS population in the south comes more from market rate affordable units (e.g. the housing that has existed there forever) then from CAF's. There used to be a lot more market rate affordable units in the north- particularly in the Glebe district, and around Rosslyn. Those areas have really gentrified. the cost of housing in Arlington has skyrocketed and a lot more market rate units have been lost in the North.

Then it should just be a matter of time before those market rate affordable units are torn down to create "townhomes from 600k..."

well- yes and no. You see this in Westover- but what is the big change that has happened in Westover in the last 30 years? the metro opening out to Ballston and East Falls Church. Without a corresponding similar change along Columbia Pike I wouldn't necessarily expect Barcroft apartments to be torn down and replaced by townhomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The funny thing is that a lot of parents were just advocating for smaller walk zones on AEM. I wonder if any of the same parents are fighting to protect their walk zones.

This. I'd say make 1-mile walk zone around each MS and then put everything else on the table for shifting between schools to level out FARMs levels (and I say this as one whose kids walk from the edge of the 1.5 mile walk zone and would still walk if a bus was an option because they hate riding the bus)

oh yes- they are fighting hard. They are essentially reading into it a 1 mile walk zone-however.

I think this map shows the problem with doing what you suggest- As you can see there are these pockets that are not in the walk-zone, but can't be bused other than to one school without either 1)violating contiguity or 2)breaking up someone else's walk zone. Incidentally- its not just going to be a contiguity problem but also an alignment and proximity problem.

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/MS_Potential_WZ_Draft4.pdf
Looking at that map- the far western corner of the county is wealthy- but it can only be bused to Williamsburg or Swanson-
In order to move those current Swanson bus-riders to Kenmore-you also pick up Madison Manor, which currently walks to Swanson.

Similarly the large Northern corner- Jamestown territory- extremely wealthy- can only be bused to Williamsburg or the new school.

yes, to make this work, they'd have to decide the contiguity is not a priority. Also, that map shows the 1.5 mile walk zones, not 1 mile walk zones. If you take it down to 1 mile, there is more space between the schools.

I'd even take the "protected" area down to 1/2 mile. It's ridiculous to bus students so close to a school to another school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'd even take the "protected" area down to 1/2 mile. It's ridiculous to bus students so close to a school to another school.

By that do you mean the entire planning unit if any portion of it falls within 1/2 mile- or do you mean if the majority is within 1/2 mile? b/c the DH parents up in arms over scenario 1H have a planning unit with a very few (maybe 10 houses? no idea if those houses have kids or not) within a 1/2 mile of Swanson. Most of that planning unit is 1mile- and the edge of it is 1 mile to Kenmore as well.