Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As soon as you point the white supremacy on DCUM, the white mommies are coming after you. Lady, your bigotry is showing and it ain't pretty.

That was a very effective argument in Virginia tonight.

And this is why nice white people should read all those Kendi books listed earlier. Not necessarily your kids but the parents.

I am watching nice white moms in our school read these books and talk about it. Some are married to men of color. They want a better world for their kids. As a mom of color it was so nice to see. They didn’t know if it was helping but they come from very white parts of the country. Things they post and learn about will trickle back when the post on FB, when they go visit parents etc.

If you can’t name a black author besides Toni Morrison, James Baldwin or Maya Angelou you are the problem.

Many upper class black people, as they stand to benefit the most, make similar arguments, in the vein of emotional blackmail and guilt tripping. "You are part of the problem if... " followed by the hard ask, ranging from entitled to bizarre. "Part of the problem" is a thinly veiled accusation of racism, in this case compounded by an equally horrid accusation of being uncultured since of course many people would have a hard time remembering two or three black authors let alone four. For middle class moms, being an uncultured racist is the worst kind of offence, and they will bend over backwards to prove to the accuser that they are not part of that despised category. At that moment, the accuser is filled with a warm feeling of validation of their social relevance.

I not being able to name four black authors, makes you "part of the problem", then "the problem" is endemic to the entire population of this country, including the vast majority of black folks themselves, and the accusation is meaningless. It doesnt really do much for people living in poverty and lacking access to opportunity, it just denotes upper middle class entitlement.

For the uninitiated, the use of the phrase "nice white people" with its pejorative connotations, needs to be eplained. It made its way into the woke vernacular, via Kendi and DeAngelo books. It is meant to give a false sense of security from accusations of racism, so that the victim thinks to themselves: "I'm white, but I'm actually nice, not like those other whites". Invariably it is followed by a rhetorical twist that proves the contrary. For example, "nice white parents" are exposed as bigots if they dare send they kids to a better school and not to the minority majority neighborhood school that is the product of a failed educational system. For the previous post, one may be awarded the "nice white" title, but it comes with a mandatory reading list.

Damn you cranky

Btw us upper class black moms like hearing about new black authors from anyone. Politics and Prose just turned my daughter on to a great book that has a black lead written by a black woman. We are busy shaking off all that Shakespeare to find new authors.

Have you had her reading any afrofuturism? Huge sci-fi fan here, and while the quality is still uneven, what's good is really fresh. A lot of new plotlines and tropes. Not just the same old space opera / future war / savior narrative stuff.

This seem so fringe, great if you have it as a hobby, but in my view it doesn't belong in English literature class. I'm surprized nobody mentions Frederick Douglas, that would be my first choice for a black author. Is Uncle Tom's Cabin out of favor? Not a black author, but it is notable for galvanizing the abolitionist movement.

If you can’t name four black authors that’s a testament to the poor education you received and nothing else. I mean really?

[Anonymous]

The main point of the thread is to answer this question: what should be taught as part of the ELA/humanities? From the outside it looks like the humanities in general are going through a shift in what scholarship should study, and there’s an effort to find a new purpose. Somehow teaching our youth to read and write is not enough. My own perception is that humanities and social studies are redefining themselves in an activist way and I’m trying to understand what the cause is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As soon as you point the white supremacy on DCUM, the white mommies are coming after you. Lady, your bigotry is showing and it ain't pretty.

That was a very effective argument in Virginia tonight.

And this is why nice white people should read all those Kendi books listed earlier. Not necessarily your kids but the parents.

I am watching nice white moms in our school read these books and talk about it. Some are married to men of color. They want a better world for their kids. As a mom of color it was so nice to see. They didn’t know if it was helping but they come from very white parts of the country. Things they post and learn about will trickle back when the post on FB, when they go visit parents etc.

If you can’t name a black author besides Toni Morrison, James Baldwin or Maya Angelou you are the problem.

Many upper class black people, as they stand to benefit the most, make similar arguments, in the vein of emotional blackmail and guilt tripping. "You are part of the problem if... " followed by the hard ask, ranging from entitled to bizarre. "Part of the problem" is a thinly veiled accusation of racism, in this case compounded by an equally horrid accusation of being uncultured since of course many people would have a hard time remembering two or three black authors let alone four. For middle class moms, being an uncultured racist is the worst kind of offence, and they will bend over backwards to prove to the accuser that they are not part of that despised category. At that moment, the accuser is filled with a warm feeling of validation of their social relevance.

I not being able to name four black authors, makes you "part of the problem", then "the problem" is endemic to the entire population of this country, including the vast majority of black folks themselves, and the accusation is meaningless. It doesnt really do much for people living in poverty and lacking access to opportunity, it just denotes upper middle class entitlement.

For the uninitiated, the use of the phrase "nice white people" with its pejorative connotations, needs to be eplained. It made its way into the woke vernacular, via Kendi and DeAngelo books. It is meant to give a false sense of security from accusations of racism, so that the victim thinks to themselves: "I'm white, but I'm actually nice, not like those other whites". Invariably it is followed by a rhetorical twist that proves the contrary. For example, "nice white parents" are exposed as bigots if they dare send they kids to a better school and not to the minority majority neighborhood school that is the product of a failed educational system. For the previous post, one may be awarded the "nice white" title, but it comes with a mandatory reading list.

Damn you cranky

Btw us upper class black moms like hearing about new black authors from anyone. Politics and Prose just turned my daughter on to a great book that has a black lead written by a black woman. We are busy shaking off all that Shakespeare to find new authors.

Have you had her reading any afrofuturism? Huge sci-fi fan here, and while the quality is still uneven, what's good is really fresh. A lot of new plotlines and tropes. Not just the same old space opera / future war / savior narrative stuff.

This seem so fringe, great if you have it as a hobby, but in my view it doesn't belong in English literature class. I'm surprized nobody mentions Frederick Douglas, that would be my first choice for a black author. Is Uncle Tom's Cabin out of favor? Not a black author, but it is notable for galvanizing the abolitionist movement.

If you can’t name four black authors that’s a testament to the poor education you received and nothing else. I mean really?

Earlier it was said not knowing four black authors means you are part of the ‘problem’. Now it’s just a sign of poor education. I think you are putting too much significance over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shakespeare should be banned from DCPS. Anything written by Shakespeare should be purged from DCPS libraries and classrooms. His works are filled with sex, violence, and gender-bending, and they deal with racism and anti-Semitism. White Christian cis-gendered students might feel uncomfortable with these themes.

This may come as a surprise for you, the threat to Shakespeare is coming from the left these days. He's not woke enough, have you even read the Cliff's Notes on The Taming of The Shrew? That's just pure, unadulterated patriarchy. Shakespeare is also white, so thats a good enough reason to replace him with an insipid novel about some gender fluid adolescents. Those white, Christian, cis-gendered high school students, we need to make fun of them, right?

This is so precious. I've never read the Cliff Notes for The Taming of the Shrew. I read the original in high school. It's one of my favorites. It's also a comedy. And yes, Petruchio is an awful male chauvinist that we love to hate.

You read the original? I doesn’t look like you know what original means, that would refer to the original manuscript. What other “originals” did you read in high school?

Again, so precious. I didn't say I read the First Folio. But it was unabridged.

You are trying too hard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s the value of Shakespeare in the curriculum? Is it for your nostalgic reasons? Just because it’s always been done, does that mean it’s always been right? Do you want to still teach Columbus as a savior and hero?

You would cancel him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shakespeare should be banned from DCPS. Anything written by Shakespeare should be purged from DCPS libraries and classrooms. His works are filled with sex, violence, and gender-bending, and they deal with racism and anti-Semitism. White Christian cis-gendered students might feel uncomfortable with these themes.

This may come as a surprise for you, the threat to Shakespeare is coming from the left these days. He's not woke enough, have you even read the Cliff's Notes on The Taming of The Shrew? That's just pure, unadulterated patriarchy. Shakespeare is also white, so thats a good enough reason to replace him with an insipid novel about some gender fluid adolescents. Those white, Christian, cis-gendered high school students, we need to make fun of them, right?

This is so precious. I've never read the Cliff Notes for The Taming of the Shrew. I read the original in high school. It's one of my favorites. It's also a comedy. And yes, Petruchio is an awful male chauvinist that we love to hate.

You read the original? I doesn’t look like you know what original means, that would refer to the original manuscript. What other “originals” did you read in high school?

Again, so precious. I didn't say I read the First Folio. But it was unabridged.

You are trying too hard

It does takes a little effort to express yourself without emojis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shakespeare should be banned from DCPS. Anything written by Shakespeare should be purged from DCPS libraries and classrooms. His works are filled with sex, violence, and gender-bending, and they deal with racism and anti-Semitism. White Christian cis-gendered students might feel uncomfortable with these themes.

This may come as a surprise for you, the threat to Shakespeare is coming from the left these days. He's not woke enough, have you even read the Cliff's Notes on The Taming of The Shrew? That's just pure, unadulterated patriarchy. Shakespeare is also white, so thats a good enough reason to replace him with an insipid novel about some gender fluid adolescents. Those white, Christian, cis-gendered high school students, we need to make fun of them, right?

This is so precious. I've never read the Cliff Notes for The Taming of the Shrew. I read the original in high school. It's one of my favorites. It's also a comedy. And yes, Petruchio is an awful male chauvinist that we love to hate.

You read the original? I doesn’t look like you know what original means, that would refer to the original manuscript. What other “originals” did you read in high school?

Again, so precious. I didn't say I read the First Folio. But it was unabridged.

You are trying too hard

It does takes a little effort to express yourself without emojis.

Not for me. Prose or emoji, I’m fluent in both.

[Anonymous]

I am the original poster for this thread and I happened upon this in today’s Times Book Review and thought I would share. It might be of interest to some of you who classify Shakespeare as just another dead white guy that Denzel Washington is about to star in his portrayal of MacBeth, and Amanda Gorman counts Shakespeare as one of her favorite poets. Does this soften your opinion?

She says she could read Othello every day and keeps it on her nightstand. So I ask again why aren’t all of our DC students not learning these same works along with other great works of world literature?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/books/review/amanda-gorman-by-the-book-interview.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the original poster for this thread and I happened upon this in today’s Times Book Review and thought I would share. It might be of interest to some of you who classify Shakespeare as just another dead white guy that Denzel Washington is about to star in his portrayal of MacBeth, and Amanda Gorman counts Shakespeare as one of her favorite poets. Does this soften your opinion?

She says she could read Othello every day and keeps it on her nightstand. So I ask again why aren’t all of our DC students not learning these same works along with other great works of world literature?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/books/review/amanda-gorman-by-the-book-interview.html

Hey, you know about “what aboutism” right and the trope of “I have a black friend”.

Give me an instructional system designer or 10 who talk about the value vs your answer here.

I love Tom Robbins and Chunk Palinuk and Nick Hornsby. But yeah I am not pushing for them to be taught in schools.

Btw when I realized my favorite authors are white men I asked myself why was that. So I focused on non white men. I don’t love these authors any less but I found new voices.

You might want to look in to what taught you this is the only way and finding confirmation bias to keep thinking one way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the original poster for this thread and I happened upon this in today’s Times Book Review and thought I would share. It might be of interest to some of you who classify Shakespeare as just another dead white guy that Denzel Washington is about to star in his portrayal of MacBeth, and Amanda Gorman counts Shakespeare as one of her favorite poets. Does this soften your opinion?

She says she could read Othello every day and keeps it on her nightstand. So I ask again why aren’t all of our DC students not learning these same works along with other great works of world literature?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/books/review/amanda-gorman-by-the-book-interview.html

Hey, you know about “what aboutism” right and the trope of “I have a black friend”.

Give me an instructional system designer or 10 who talk about the value vs your answer here.

I love Tom Robbins and Chunk Palinuk and Nick Hornsby. But yeah I am not pushing for them to be taught in schools.

Btw when I realized my favorite authors are white men I asked myself why was that. So I focused on non white men. I don’t love these authors any less but I found new voices.

You might want to look in to what taught you this is the only way and finding confirmation bias to keep thinking one way.

Ok, but the point is, find me three equal peers of Shakespeare (of any race, creed or nationality)

…..?

[Anonymous]

oh sweet my favorite thread is back from the dead

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the original poster for this thread and I happened upon this in today’s Times Book Review and thought I would share. It might be of interest to some of you who classify Shakespeare as just another dead white guy that Denzel Washington is about to star in his portrayal of MacBeth, and Amanda Gorman counts Shakespeare as one of her favorite poets. Does this soften your opinion?

She says she could read Othello every day and keeps it on her nightstand. So I ask again why aren’t all of our DC students not learning these same works along with other great works of world literature?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/books/review/amanda-gorman-by-the-book-interview.html

I'm not sure what my takeaway about Denzel Washington should be? We should care about things that celebrities care about too? This is now my default argument to prove points about my taste and opinion.

"Oh, you don't like rice pilaf?! You know who DOES? IDRIS ELBA. BOOM."

"Yeah well I bet Sheryl CROW would prefer matte to glossy eggshell white!"

"You know who ELSE wants to go on down to the fire station and honk the firetruck horn?! GUY FIERI."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the original poster for this thread and I happened upon this in today’s Times Book Review and thought I would share. It might be of interest to some of you who classify Shakespeare as just another dead white guy that Denzel Washington is about to star in his portrayal of MacBeth, and Amanda Gorman counts Shakespeare as one of her favorite poets. Does this soften your opinion?

She says she could read Othello every day and keeps it on her nightstand. So I ask again why aren’t all of our DC students not learning these same works along with other great works of world literature?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/books/review/amanda-gorman-by-the-book-interview.html

Hey, you know about “what aboutism” right and the trope of “I have a black friend”.

Give me an instructional system designer or 10 who talk about the value vs your answer here.

I love Tom Robbins and Chunk Palinuk and Nick Hornsby. But yeah I am not pushing for them to be taught in schools.

Btw when I realized my favorite authors are white men I asked myself why was that. So I focused on non white men. I don’t love these authors any less but I found new voices.

You might want to look in to what taught you this is the only way and finding confirmation bias to keep thinking one way.

Ok, but the point is, find me three equal peers of Shakespeare (of any race, creed or nationality)

…..?

ok but that's going to be literally a matter of opinion tho

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the original poster for this thread and I happened upon this in today’s Times Book Review and thought I would share. It might be of interest to some of you who classify Shakespeare as just another dead white guy that Denzel Washington is about to star in his portrayal of MacBeth, and Amanda Gorman counts Shakespeare as one of her favorite poets. Does this soften your opinion?

She says she could read Othello every day and keeps it on her nightstand. So I ask again why aren’t all of our DC students not learning these same works along with other great works of world literature?


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/09/books/review/amanda-gorman-by-the-book-interview.html

Hey, you know about “what aboutism” right and the trope of “I have a black friend”.

Give me an instructional system designer or 10 who talk about the value vs your answer here.

I love Tom Robbins and Chunk Palinuk and Nick Hornsby. But yeah I am not pushing for them to be taught in schools.

Btw when I realized my favorite authors are white men I asked myself why was that. So I focused on non white men. I don’t love these authors any less but I found new voices.

You might want to look in to what taught you this is the only way and finding confirmation bias to keep thinking one way.

Ok, but the point is, find me three equal peers of Shakespeare (of any race, creed or nationality)

…..?

Why? What is the value in reading the same author's different works vs. several authors who show different aspects of literature?

You found two black people who like Shakespear. I have lots of friends who like the Bard; my parents like him too but what is the educational value. This is why I asked for instructional systems designer to outline the why?

I like reading People magazine (at the doctor's office) but that doesn't mean I want it taught in schools.

Just because that is how its always been done isn't a good reason. And maybe he should be taught but this vs. that and only one play to make way for more authors. I personally liked Chaucer better.

I love to read and it didn't come from Shakespeare or any prescribed reading. I hated Jane Eyre and the Bronte sisters but I have friends who swear by them.

What is the purpose of the course - critical thinking, writing skills, logic etc and then is it good to only have one source to get to that aim and why?

[Anonymous]

I mean, Cervantes basically created the novel.