ECNL moving to school year part 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think MLS Next truly wants to move to SY. However, they could not effectively communicate and execute their scouting weekend so not really sure why they would willingly choose to be an outlier. They would not be the first entity to lack self awareness.

Moving to SY puts their clubs at a slight disadvantage for the GA Cup as they would have to play up against international competition but I think staying BY would be a logistical nightmare with all feeder leagues, even with Homegrown clubs, being SY.

Just so you know. It goes...

1. MLS Pro
2. MLS Next Homegrown
3. MLS Next Academy
4. MLS p2p (whatever they're going to call it)

If anything it would be the MLS p2p clubs that might switch to SY. Which would make MLS p2p a direct competitor to ECNL. Maintaining two differnet age groupings isnt that difficult if you own the entire

funnel. Also If homegrown and Academy stayed BY every game against MLS p2p would be like playjng up 6 months which wouldn't be that bad.

Hey, believe me, you don’t know what you are talking about. Your post shows you are ignorant about MLS Next tier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Luis said that "England is the only country that does that" in reference to a 9/1-8/31 eligibility window. Then he listed 4-5 countries that didnt do 9/1-8/31 implying that they were all BY 1/1-12/31.

I think there is some danger in making decisions just because most of Europe, the world, whatever, does it that way. Just because they do doesn’t mean it’s best for US soccer. Clearly for MOST of US soccer, 8/1 is the better fit. We’re not Europe and it’s not an age cutoff that’s keeping us from being Europe.

The same type of thing has happened in Brazil over the last decade or two. They’ve been influenced too much by the European style of play and have gotten away from doing what they do best and what makes Brazil… Brazil.

Ideally the US Soccer Federation should be making decisions regarding what is best for soccer in the US and our unique circumstances. I guess that ship has sailed with this issue.

You should listen to the podcast.

Luis actually agreed that when players are younger seemed to be around 8 that playing with your grade made sense.

But he said once players are older u13 and above that NLS Next is looking for the best ways to develop the best possible pro level talent. Because of this it was implied that playing with your grade in school wasnt important. Which I agree with. Top club teams roster players from all over. If you're not in the same school why does being in the same grade matter.

I’ve listened to the podcast and this is an incredibly simplistic argument that misses the point of the current decision.

Very few kids playing at a high level are playing with classmates, that true for ecnl/GA too and not specific to mlsnext. For those living outside of a major metro area, that starts very young. Neither of my kids have ever played with a classmate. The only reason this guys daughter plays with classmates is because they live in the NY market.

The entire youth soccer system in the US is shifting to 8/1. The reasons for the switch aren’t important and don’t really apply to mlsnext. No one is arguing otherwise. What mlsnext has to decide is how they are going to function in a landscape that is entirely 8/1 and if it makes most financial sense to switch to 8/1 or if they can come up with a plan that makes it feasible to stay 1/1.

Agree but these people that run leagues like to portend it is not about money at all when it really has to be at the end of the day. So yes 8/1 is the only answer.

I think it was a total denial by mlsnext to acknowledge that they exist within the broader youth soccer landscape just like everyone else until the P2P clubs pushed the issue. Mlsnext could stay BY, close the gates, and isolate themselves from the rest of youth soccer and that may work for a while. 5-10 years down the road they are going to be dealing with players and families who have grown up in an 8/1 system with all they’ve ever known so this is going to get harder and harder. Bottom line is small and elite (which is what mlsnext would turn into) is not profitable. Clubs know this and is why many mlsnext p2p clubs are 120+ teams with 4-5 teams an age group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Luis said that "England is the only country that does that" in reference to a 9/1-8/31 eligibility window. Then he listed 4-5 countries that didnt do 9/1-8/31 implying that they were all BY 1/1-12/31.

I think there is some danger in making decisions just because most of Europe, the world, whatever, does it that way. Just because they do doesn’t mean it’s best for US soccer. Clearly for MOST of US soccer, 8/1 is the better fit. We’re not Europe and it’s not an age cutoff that’s keeping us from being Europe.

The same type of thing has happened in Brazil over the last decade or two. They’ve been influenced too much by the European style of play and have gotten away from doing what they do best and what makes Brazil… Brazil.

Ideally the US Soccer Federation should be making decisions regarding what is best for soccer in the US and our unique circumstances. I guess that ship has sailed with this issue.

You should listen to the podcast.

Luis actually agreed that when players are younger seemed to be around 8 that playing with your grade made sense.

But he said once players are older u13 and above that NLS Next is looking for the best ways to develop the best possible pro level talent. Because of this it was implied that playing with your grade in school wasnt important. Which I agree with. Top club teams roster players from all over. If you're not in the same school why does being in the same grade matter.

I’ve listened to the podcast and this is an incredibly simplistic argument that misses the point of the current decision.

Very few kids playing at a high level are playing with classmates, that true for ecnl/GA too and not specific to mlsnext. For those living outside of a major metro area, that starts very young. Neither of my kids have ever played with a classmate. The only reason this guys daughter plays with classmates is because they live in the NY market.

The entire youth soccer system in the US is shifting to 8/1. The reasons for the switch aren’t important and don’t really apply to mlsnext. No one is arguing otherwise. What mlsnext has to decide is how they are going to function in a landscape that is entirely 8/1 and if it makes most financial sense to switch to 8/1 or if they can come up with a plan that makes it feasible to stay 1/1.

Agree but these people that run leagues like to portend it is not about money at all when it really has to be at the end of the day. So yes 8/1 is the only answer.

I think it was a total denial by mlsnext to acknowledge that they exist within the broader youth soccer landscape just like everyone else until the P2P clubs pushed the issue. Mlsnext could stay BY, close the gates, and isolate themselves from the rest of youth soccer and that may work for a while. 5-10 years down the road they are going to be dealing with players and families who have grown up in an 8/1 system with all they’ve ever known so this is going to get harder and harder. Bottom line is small and elite (which is what mlsnext would turn into) is not profitable. Clubs know this and is why many mlsnext p2p clubs are 120+ teams with 4-5 teams an age group.

No, the effect would be immediate. The better SY aged players would go to ECNL and BY players to MLSN no doubt. Players have an equal chance of exposure in each league and parents care more about their kid dominating, starting or just being on the top team as possible. There would be an additional hit like you are saying but wouldn’t take 5-10 years, more like 3-4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Luis said that "England is the only country that does that" in reference to a 9/1-8/31 eligibility window. Then he listed 4-5 countries that didnt do 9/1-8/31 implying that they were all BY 1/1-12/31.

I think there is some danger in making decisions just because most of Europe, the world, whatever, does it that way. Just because they do doesn’t mean it’s best for US soccer. Clearly for MOST of US soccer, 8/1 is the better fit. We’re not Europe and it’s not an age cutoff that’s keeping us from being Europe.

The same type of thing has happened in Brazil over the last decade or two. They’ve been influenced too much by the European style of play and have gotten away from doing what they do best and what makes Brazil… Brazil.

Ideally the US Soccer Federation should be making decisions regarding what is best for soccer in the US and our unique circumstances. I guess that ship has sailed with this issue.

You should listen to the podcast.

Luis actually agreed that when players are younger seemed to be around 8 that playing with your grade made sense.

But he said once players are older u13 and above that NLS Next is looking for the best ways to develop the best possible pro level talent. Because of this it was implied that playing with your grade in school wasnt important. Which I agree with. Top club teams roster players from all over. If you're not in the same school why does being in the same grade matter.

I’ve listened to the podcast and this is an incredibly simplistic argument that misses the point of the current decision.

Very few kids playing at a high level are playing with classmates, that true for ecnl/GA too and not specific to mlsnext. For those living outside of a major metro area, that starts very young. Neither of my kids have ever played with a classmate. The only reason this guys daughter plays with classmates is because they live in the NY market.

The entire youth soccer system in the US is shifting to 8/1. The reasons for the switch aren’t important and don’t really apply to mlsnext. No one is arguing otherwise. What mlsnext has to decide is how they are going to function in a landscape that is entirely 8/1 and if it makes most financial sense to switch to 8/1 or if they can come up with a plan that makes it feasible to stay 1/1.

Agree but these people that run leagues like to portend it is not about money at all when it really has to be at the end of the day. So yes 8/1 is the only answer.

I think it was a total denial by mlsnext to acknowledge that they exist within the broader youth soccer landscape just like everyone else until the P2P clubs pushed the issue. Mlsnext could stay BY, close the gates, and isolate themselves from the rest of youth soccer and that may work for a while. 5-10 years down the road they are going to be dealing with players and families who have grown up in an 8/1 system with all they’ve ever known so this is going to get harder and harder. Bottom line is small and elite (which is what mlsnext would turn into) is not profitable. Clubs know this and is why many mlsnext p2p clubs are 120+ teams with 4-5 teams an age group.

No, the effect would be immediate. The better SY aged players would go to ECNL and BY players to MLSN no doubt. Players have an equal chance of exposure in each league and parents care more about their kid dominating, starting or just being on the top team as possible. There would be an additional hit like you are saying but wouldn’t take 5-10 years, more like 3-4.

This is reality Mlsn did not want to hear but now has. This is the feedback mlsn clubs are giving them because clubs sure dont want to lose players.

[Anonymous]

MLSN could stay BY if they can stay atop of the pyramid. Even the best SY players would still covet joining a MLSN team if it brought greater opportunity and exposure -- just like the YNTs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MLSN could stay BY if they can stay atop of the pyramid. Even the best SY players would still covet joining a MLSN team if it brought greater opportunity and exposure -- just like the YNTs.

Not based on what I’m hearing from our late birthday MLsN parents across several age groups. It is hello ECNL and the coaches know it too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MLSN could stay BY if they can stay atop of the pyramid. Even the best SY players would still covet joining a MLSN team if it brought greater opportunity and exposure -- just like the YNTs.

Not based on what I’m hearing from our late birthday MLsN parents across several age groups. It is hello ECNL and the coaches know it too.

Good job trying to foment FOMO!

[Anonymous]

My kid is playing SY next season. Doesn’t matter if it’s ECNL OR MLSN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MLSN could stay BY if they can stay atop of the pyramid. Even the best SY players would still covet joining a MLSN team if it brought greater opportunity and exposure -- just like the YNTs.

This is a very surface level statement. What does that actually look like on a day to day basis? How do MLSN clubs with 4-5 teams in the youth age groups structure their feeder program? How to clubs attract large numbers of aug-dec birthdays if they have to skip an age group. What does mlsn1 vs 2 do as far as staying BY or 8/1 and how does that decision impact each other? How does the league attract outside clubs to expand when all those clubs are 8/1?

MLSnext is connected to MLS and will probably always be the top of the pyramid. That doesn’t matter, the league still needs to be profitable. What’s more likely is the league doesn’t have a good plan to address the questions above, over time isn’t profitable, and is eventually forced to switch to 8/1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MLSN could stay BY if they can stay atop of the pyramid. Even the best SY players would still covet joining a MLSN team if it brought greater opportunity and exposure -- just like the YNTs.

Not based on what I’m hearing from our late birthday MLsN parents across several age groups. It is hello ECNL and the coaches know it too.

Good job trying to foment FOMO!

Okay, keep your head in the sand then

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MLSN could stay BY if they can stay atop of the pyramid. Even the best SY players would still covet joining a MLSN team if it brought greater opportunity and exposure -- just like the YNTs.

This is a very surface level statement. What does that actually look like on a day to day basis? How do MLSN clubs with 4-5 teams in the youth age groups structure their feeder program? How to clubs attract large numbers of aug-dec birthdays if they have to skip an age group. What does mlsn1 vs 2 do as far as staying BY or 8/1 and how does that decision impact each other? How does the league attract outside clubs to expand when all those clubs are 8/1?

MLSnext is connected to MLS and will probably always be the top of the pyramid. That doesn’t matter, the league still needs to be profitable. What’s more likely is the league doesn’t have a good plan to address the questions above, over time isn’t profitable, and is eventually forced to switch to 8/1.

No, I think you're overthinking the supposed problems this causes. All these issues are exactly what the YNT will now face in building their player pools -- but all those players will fight hand over fist to be apart of it. If MLSN can maintain that same level of scarcity and demand, they'll be fine. Also, lf MLSN stays BY, it might be another/stronger pathway to the YNTs (as well as college because of level of talent it attracts). In this scenario, clubs will adapt to them, not the other way around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MLSN could stay BY if they can stay atop of the pyramid. Even the best SY players would still covet joining a MLSN team if it brought greater opportunity and exposure -- just like the YNTs.

Not based on what I’m hearing from our late birthday MLsN parents across several age groups. It is hello ECNL and the coaches know it too.

Good job trying to foment FOMO!

Okay, keep your head in the sand then

OK, go ECNL. It may not work as well as you think, especially if you are already playing 11v11, and YNTs stay BY.

[Anonymous]

To best combat RAE, it'd be a pain the butt administratively, but probably better for the system as a whole if MLSN stayed BY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MLSN could stay BY if they can stay atop of the pyramid. Even the best SY players would still covet joining a MLSN team if it brought greater opportunity and exposure -- just like the YNTs.

This is a very surface level statement. What does that actually look like on a day to day basis? How do MLSN clubs with 4-5 teams in the youth age groups structure their feeder program? How to clubs attract large numbers of aug-dec birthdays if they have to skip an age group. What does mlsn1 vs 2 do as far as staying BY or 8/1 and how does that decision impact each other? How does the league attract outside clubs to expand when all those clubs are 8/1?

MLSnext is connected to MLS and will probably always be the top of the pyramid. That doesn’t matter, the league still needs to be profitable. What’s more likely is the league doesn’t have a good plan to address the questions above, over time isn’t profitable, and is eventually forced to switch to 8/1.

No, I think you're overthinking the supposed problems this causes. All these issues are exactly what the YNT will now face in building their player pools -- but all those players will fight hand over fist to be apart of it. If MLSN can maintain that same level of scarcity and demand, they'll be fine. Also, lf MLSN stays BY, it might be another/stronger pathway to the YNTs (as well as college because of level of talent it attracts). In this scenario, clubs will adapt to them, not the other way around.

And I don’t think you’re thinking about the systems levels issues enough. The YNT aren’t part of the club youth soccer system, they are isolated by themselves. YNT are funded by the US soccer federation. Club soccer and YNT soccer are completely different systems.

That’s not the case for MLSnext. This a league that is funded based on payments from clubs which are funded based on payments from parents. The money flows up. MLSnext 2 is nothing more than a money maker for the league to help support the levels on top. Maybe mlsnext is incredibly altruistic and is not out to make money… they still need to break even and won’t continue very long if they are in the red.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MLSN could stay BY if they can stay atop of the pyramid. Even the best SY players would still covet joining a MLSN team if it brought greater opportunity and exposure -- just like the YNTs.

This is a very surface level statement. What does that actually look like on a day to day basis? How do MLSN clubs with 4-5 teams in the youth age groups structure their feeder program? How to clubs attract large numbers of aug-dec birthdays if they have to skip an age group. What does mlsn1 vs 2 do as far as staying BY or 8/1 and how does that decision impact each other? How does the league attract outside clubs to expand when all those clubs are 8/1?

MLSnext is connected to MLS and will probably always be the top of the pyramid. That doesn’t matter, the league still needs to be profitable. What’s more likely is the league doesn’t have a good plan to address the questions above, over time isn’t profitable, and is eventually forced to switch to 8/1.

No, I think you're overthinking the supposed problems this causes. All these issues are exactly what the YNT will now face in building their player pools -- but all those players will fight hand over fist to be apart of it. If MLSN can maintain that same level of scarcity and demand, they'll be fine. Also, lf MLSN stays BY, it might be another/stronger pathway to the YNTs (as well as college because of level of talent it attracts). In this scenario, clubs will adapt to them, not the other way around.

And I don’t think you’re thinking about the systems levels issues enough. The YNT aren’t part of the club youth soccer system, they are isolated by themselves. YNT are funded by the US soccer federation. Club soccer and YNT soccer are completely different systems.

That’s not the case for MLSnext. This a league that is funded based on payments from clubs which are funded based on payments from parents. The money flows up. MLSnext 2 is nothing more than a money maker for the league to help support the levels on top. Maybe mlsnext is incredibly altruistic and is not out to make money… they still need to break even and won’t continue very long if they are in the red.

The pinch point is going to exist somewhere. It's better for all of US soccer if it can be within the youth P2P system as long as the international standard stays BY. Whomever figures out how to make it profitable AND produce the best BY team will win OR if we don't, we'll continue to lose as a country, anyway.