How does HB Woodlawn lottery work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amuses me the contortions some families go through. Especially the ones who insisted their kids needed a traditional education and maneuvered to get them into ATS but come time for secondary school suddenly they need a hippy-dippy experiential approach and the HBW philosophy is for them. I've long thought attendance at ATS should be disqualifying to HBW, especially given the scarcity of spots (why should one family win the lottery twice?)

Since the 1980s parents of all political or social backgrounds have liked the small, generally socio-economically homogeneous or majority affluent aspect of H-B. That's why test scores have always been high. Before the lottery, families would camp outside of the school for days on end to not loose their spot in the queue (to gain admittance). I personally like HB but wish more of the students who could truly benefit from its unique pedagogy could gain admittance. But I don't think that means making H-B huge to get more students in. Right now APS is at a good balance with strong neighborhood secondary schools and strong option programs.

How do you even see or assess this? I’ve been trying to look at test data, but HB (as well as the other secondary option programs) are always lumped in with the big high schools, including on VDOE, and rarely is it possible to see any stand alone performance data - please link if you know of any. It seems a bit of a cop out by APS that they are not publishing any data for these programs separately. .

Obviously this is intentional to hide the inequality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids went to ATS and later, only one applied and got into HB. We felt she was the perfect fit for the HB style of learning.
Guess what? When your kid starts kindergarten, you aren't quite sure what learning style suits them best. ATS has traditional values and approach but my future HB kid didn't fit the mold. My DD would have suffered in 'regular' MS and HS. HB was perfect for her quirky, 'square peg in a round hole' personality. ATS prepped her for being more organized but HB allowed her to flourish and be herself.
If HB admissions really stuck to the original intent of the program, we wouldn't be where we are. Instead, we have parents who clamor to get their child in for HB's seeming exclusivity when they would have been fine at other schools.

The exact same thing can be said about ATS. And I can’t believe how parents who seek both ATS and HB don’t understand how they show the rest of the world that it is about exclusivity and not academics. I mean, HB and ATS could not be further apart in pedagogy. But the pRENTS DONT KNOW OR CARE, BECAUSE ITS ABOUT PRESTIGE.

The only prestige here is the slight of hand APS does by holding out the chance of something better, that so few people can have.

You can see it in how lopsided the applications for Woodlawn are. Yes, the parents at option schools are more likely to continue applying for option schools because they won previously. I know families who have had kids at two and even three option programs (moving from Campbell, MPSA, or immersion to ATS). It's the same with those zoned to lower performing middle schools: they apply at much higher rates than those zoned to the top ones. Unfortunately, there's only so many slots per school, so most people will lose out. That doesn't mean people are out for "prestige" they just want what they think is the best option. As long as options exist, people will persue them.

There is no perceived prestige foe MPSA, Immersion, or Claremont. I see you left off ATS.

HB presitige is all about a tiny high school of 400 students compared to nearly 3000 at the closest neighborhood school and overcrowding at the remaining 2.

Why didn’t they make it the same size as AT is planned to be, 1500?

I don't think you understand what prestige means. HB may be desirable but it is not more prestigious than the other high schools.

You clearly know nothing about HB. HB has fewer advanced class options than the other high schools in APS.

Which makes college admissions easier because admissions score you most rigorous of classes offered, not absolute number of advanced classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amuses me the contortions some families go through. Especially the ones who insisted their kids needed a traditional education and maneuvered to get them into ATS but come time for secondary school suddenly they need a hippy-dippy experiential approach and the HBW philosophy is for them. I've long thought attendance at ATS should be disqualifying to HBW, especially given the scarcity of spots (why should one family win the lottery twice?)

Since the 1980s parents of all political or social backgrounds have liked the small, generally socio-economically homogeneous or majority affluent aspect of H-B. That's why test scores have always been high. Before the lottery, families would camp outside of the school for days on end to not loose their spot in the queue (to gain admittance). I personally like HB but wish more of the students who could truly benefit from its unique pedagogy could gain admittance. But I don't think that means making H-B huge to get more students in. Right now APS is at a good balance with strong neighborhood secondary schools and strong option programs.

How do you even see or assess this? I’ve been trying to look at test data, but HB (as well as the other secondary option programs) are always lumped in with the big high schools, including on VDOE, and rarely is it possible to see any stand alone performance data - please link if you know of any. It seems a bit of a cop out by APS that they are not publishing any data for these programs separately. .

Obviously this is intentional to hide the inequality.

HB is a program. And same with Arlington Tech. They are not “schools” per the state definition. They are “programs”, and the students can choose to get their home high school diploma upon graduation. It’s not intentional, but it does hide the socio-economic implications of an option program that primarily appeals to affluent families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amuses me the contortions some families go through. Especially the ones who insisted their kids needed a traditional education and maneuvered to get them into ATS but come time for secondary school suddenly they need a hippy-dippy experiential approach and the HBW philosophy is for them. I've long thought attendance at ATS should be disqualifying to HBW, especially given the scarcity of spots (why should one family win the lottery twice?)

Since the 1980s parents of all political or social backgrounds have liked the small, generally socio-economically homogeneous or majority affluent aspect of H-B. That's why test scores have always been high. Before the lottery, families would camp outside of the school for days on end to not loose their spot in the queue (to gain admittance). I personally like HB but wish more of the students who could truly benefit from its unique pedagogy could gain admittance. But I don't think that means making H-B huge to get more students in. Right now APS is at a good balance with strong neighborhood secondary schools and strong option programs.

How do you even see or assess this? I’ve been trying to look at test data, but HB (as well as the other secondary option programs) are always lumped in with the big high schools, including on VDOE, and rarely is it possible to see any stand alone performance data - please link if you know of any. It seems a bit of a cop out by APS that they are not publishing any data for these programs separately. .

Obviously this is intentional to hide the inequality.

HB is a program. And same with Arlington Tech. They are not “schools” per the state definition. They are “programs”, and the students can choose to get their home high school diploma upon graduation. It’s not intentional, but it does hide the socio-economic implications of an option program that primarily appeals to affluent families.

There's no diploma choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amuses me the contortions some families go through. Especially the ones who insisted their kids needed a traditional education and maneuvered to get them into ATS but come time for secondary school suddenly they need a hippy-dippy experiential approach and the HBW philosophy is for them. I've long thought attendance at ATS should be disqualifying to HBW, especially given the scarcity of spots (why should one family win the lottery twice?)

Since the 1980s parents of all political or social backgrounds have liked the small, generally socio-economically homogeneous or majority affluent aspect of H-B. That's why test scores have always been high. Before the lottery, families would camp outside of the school for days on end to not loose their spot in the queue (to gain admittance). I personally like HB but wish more of the students who could truly benefit from its unique pedagogy could gain admittance. But I don't think that means making H-B huge to get more students in. Right now APS is at a good balance with strong neighborhood secondary schools and strong option programs.

How do you even see or assess this? I’ve been trying to look at test data, but HB (as well as the other secondary option programs) are always lumped in with the big high schools, including on VDOE, and rarely is it possible to see any stand alone performance data - please link if you know of any. It seems a bit of a cop out by APS that they are not publishing any data for these programs separately. .

Obviously this is intentional to hide the inequality.

HB is a program. And same with Arlington Tech. They are not “schools” per the state definition. They are “programs”, and the students can choose to get their home high school diploma upon graduation. It’s not intentional, but it does hide the socio-economic implications of an option program that primarily appeals to affluent families.

There's no diploma choice.

They are offered their home high school diploma (Wakefield, Yorktown, or W-L). Same with the Langston Program, like H-B, also a "program". A student may choose to not accept it / obtain it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amuses me the contortions some families go through. Especially the ones who insisted their kids needed a traditional education and maneuvered to get them into ATS but come time for secondary school suddenly they need a hippy-dippy experiential approach and the HBW philosophy is for them. I've long thought attendance at ATS should be disqualifying to HBW, especially given the scarcity of spots (why should one family win the lottery twice?)

Since the 1980s parents of all political or social backgrounds have liked the small, generally socio-economically homogeneous or majority affluent aspect of H-B. That's why test scores have always been high. Before the lottery, families would camp outside of the school for days on end to not loose their spot in the queue (to gain admittance). I personally like HB but wish more of the students who could truly benefit from its unique pedagogy could gain admittance. But I don't think that means making H-B huge to get more students in. Right now APS is at a good balance with strong neighborhood secondary schools and strong option programs.

How do you even see or assess this? I’ve been trying to look at test data, but HB (as well as the other secondary option programs) are always lumped in with the big high schools, including on VDOE, and rarely is it possible to see any stand alone performance data - please link if you know of any. It seems a bit of a cop out by APS that they are not publishing any data for these programs separately. .

Obviously this is intentional to hide the inequality.

HB is a program. And same with Arlington Tech. They are not “schools” per the state definition. They are “programs”, and the students can choose to get their home high school diploma upon graduation. It’s not intentional, but it does hide the socio-economic implications of an option program that primarily appeals to affluent families.

There's no diploma choice.

They are offered their home high school diploma (Wakefield, Yorktown, or W-L). Same with the Langston Program, like H-B, also a "program". A student may choose to not accept it / obtain it.

No. All students get a diploma from their home high school. They can choose to attend their home high school graduation ceremony. You don't get an HB diploma. Only a home school diploma.
-parent of an HB grad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amuses me the contortions some families go through. Especially the ones who insisted their kids needed a traditional education and maneuvered to get them into ATS but come time for secondary school suddenly they need a hippy-dippy experiential approach and the HBW philosophy is for them. I've long thought attendance at ATS should be disqualifying to HBW, especially given the scarcity of spots (why should one family win the lottery twice?)

Since the 1980s parents of all political or social backgrounds have liked the small, generally socio-economically homogeneous or majority affluent aspect of H-B. That's why test scores have always been high. Before the lottery, families would camp outside of the school for days on end to not loose their spot in the queue (to gain admittance). I personally like HB but wish more of the students who could truly benefit from its unique pedagogy could gain admittance. But I don't think that means making H-B huge to get more students in. Right now APS is at a good balance with strong neighborhood secondary schools and strong option programs.

How do you even see or assess this? I’ve been trying to look at test data, but HB (as well as the other secondary option programs) are always lumped in with the big high schools, including on VDOE, and rarely is it possible to see any stand alone performance data - please link if you know of any. It seems a bit of a cop out by APS that they are not publishing any data for these programs separately. .

Obviously this is intentional to hide the inequality.

HB is a program. And same with Arlington Tech. They are not “schools” per the state definition. They are “programs”, and the students can choose to get their home high school diploma upon graduation. It’s not intentional, but it does hide the socio-economic implications of an option program that primarily appeals to affluent families.

There's no diploma choice.

They are offered their home high school diploma (Wakefield, Yorktown, or W-L). Same with the Langston Program, like H-B, also a "program". A student may choose to not accept it / obtain it.

lol you're completely wrong. more weird misinformation from people who don't know HB

[Anonymous]

APS doesn't force graduates to accept their diploma which is a piece of paper. A high school graduate is a graduate regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:APS doesn't force graduates to accept their diploma which is a piece of paper. A high school graduate is a graduate regardless.

HB grads have no more choice in getting a diploma than any regular APS grad. They can choose whether to attend the ceremony at their home school or not. But they get the diploma either way, and it's not through HB. If they do not attend the graduation ceremony, I think the diploma gets mailed to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amuses me the contortions some families go through. Especially the ones who insisted their kids needed a traditional education and maneuvered to get them into ATS but come time for secondary school suddenly they need a hippy-dippy experiential approach and the HBW philosophy is for them. I've long thought attendance at ATS should be disqualifying to HBW, especially given the scarcity of spots (why should one family win the lottery twice?)

Since the 1980s parents of all political or social backgrounds have liked the small, generally socio-economically homogeneous or majority affluent aspect of H-B. That's why test scores have always been high. Before the lottery, families would camp outside of the school for days on end to not loose their spot in the queue (to gain admittance). I personally like HB but wish more of the students who could truly benefit from its unique pedagogy could gain admittance. But I don't think that means making H-B huge to get more students in. Right now APS is at a good balance with strong neighborhood secondary schools and strong option programs.

How do you even see or assess this? I’ve been trying to look at test data, but HB (as well as the other secondary option programs) are always lumped in with the big high schools, including on VDOE, and rarely is it possible to see any stand alone performance data - please link if you know of any. It seems a bit of a cop out by APS that they are not publishing any data for these programs separately. .

Obviously this is intentional to hide the inequality.

HB is a program. And same with Arlington Tech. They are not “schools” per the state definition. They are “programs”, and the students can choose to get their home high school diploma upon graduation. It’s not intentional, but it does hide the socio-economic implications of an option program that primarily appeals to affluent families.

There's no diploma choice.

They are offered their home high school diploma (Wakefield, Yorktown, or W-L). Same with the Langston Program, like H-B, also a "program". A student may choose to not accept it / obtain it.

ok then please tell us what you think happens if an HB senior declines to "accept" their home school diploma?

[Anonymous]

Today is the deadline to enter the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Enlarging HB to the size of the other high schools has been discussed many times over the years and it will never happen. It would simply continue to be a socio-economically segregated escape from the neighborhood schools, but much larger and thus undermining those comprehensive high schools. APS has a good balance at the moment among the neighborhood schools and options programs.

Clearly you live in N Arlington or haven't spent anytime looking at the racial and economic segregation in APS.

There is segregation and there has been for quite some time. Boundary changes have historically exacerbated the segregation, which has also been the case in FCPS and MCPS. Enlarging HB would only exacerbate existing segregation.

And the county will never seriously address it by assigning students across the county at the high school.

Not in a million years. APS also removed diversity criteria from future boundary changes. Neighborhood schools, walkability, etc., are the priorities going forward, when or if APS changes boundaries again.

As it should be. No one is stopping parents from the wealthier white neighborhoods from choose to transfer to more diverse schools. You aren't guaranteed a spot but it's likely. Instead, these parents want to force brown/black kids to be assigned to schools farther away from home, which means more time out of their day for transit and making it more difficult for lower-income parents to be active in their schools. These communities WANT to be in their neighborhood schools! They don't want to be pawns so that affluent white parents can offer their children a more "diverse" school experience.

[Anonymous]

Students should only be allowed one lottery spot per APS career, unless spots can’t be filled otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Enlarging HB to the size of the other high schools has been discussed many times over the years and it will never happen. It would simply continue to be a socio-economically segregated escape from the neighborhood schools, but much larger and thus undermining those comprehensive high schools. APS has a good balance at the moment among the neighborhood schools and options programs.

Clearly you live in N Arlington or haven't spent anytime looking at the racial and economic segregation in APS.

There is segregation and there has been for quite some time. Boundary changes have historically exacerbated the segregation, which has also been the case in FCPS and MCPS. Enlarging HB would only exacerbate existing segregation.

And the county will never seriously address it by assigning students across the county at the high school.

Not in a million years. APS also removed diversity criteria from future boundary changes. Neighborhood schools, walkability, etc., are the priorities going forward, when or if APS changes boundaries again.

As it should be. No one is stopping parents from the wealthier white neighborhoods from choose to transfer to more diverse schools. You aren't guaranteed a spot but it's likely. Instead, these parents want to force brown/black kids to be assigned to schools farther away from home, which means more time out of their day for transit and making it more difficult for lower-income parents to be active in their schools. These communities WANT to be in their neighborhood schools! They don't want to be pawns so that affluent white parents can offer their children a more "diverse" school experience.

This isn't who wants the diversity. The white parents who moved into the lower income neighborhoods with brown kids are the ones who want more higher income white kids (like them) and fewer of the low income brown kids. The low income brown families want to keep their closeby neighborhood schools that they can walk to. Like Randolph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It always amuses me the contortions some families go through. Especially the ones who insisted their kids needed a traditional education and maneuvered to get them into ATS but come time for secondary school suddenly they need a hippy-dippy experiential approach and the HBW philosophy is for them. I've long thought attendance at ATS should be disqualifying to HBW, especially given the scarcity of spots (why should one family win the lottery twice?)

Since the 1980s parents of all political or social backgrounds have liked the small, generally socio-economically homogeneous or majority affluent aspect of H-B. That's why test scores have always been high. Before the lottery, families would camp outside of the school for days on end to not loose their spot in the queue (to gain admittance). I personally like HB but wish more of the students who could truly benefit from its unique pedagogy could gain admittance. But I don't think that means making H-B huge to get more students in. Right now APS is at a good balance with strong neighborhood secondary schools and strong option programs.

How do you even see or assess this? I’ve been trying to look at test data, but HB (as well as the other secondary option programs) are always lumped in with the big high schools, including on VDOE, and rarely is it possible to see any stand alone performance data - please link if you know of any. It seems a bit of a cop out by APS that they are not publishing any data for these programs separately. .

Obviously this is intentional to hide the inequality.

HB is a program. And same with Arlington Tech. They are not “schools” per the state definition. They are “programs”, and the students can choose to get their home high school diploma upon graduation. It’s not intentional, but it does hide the socio-economic implications of an option program that primarily appeals to affluent families.

That is a fake designation to give the ability to control the narrative.

They are in different buildings, different teachers, different PRINCIPALS. There is no more overlap between HBW with WL than WL with WHS.