Benchmark and SOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both of my kids pass advanced on reading SOL (4th, 7th). Interestingly, my 7th grader said their English teacher specifically said to pay close attention to the first passage and triple check answers because the test is adaptive and very difficult to pass advanced if you mess up at the start. I hadn’t heard that before and my kids have been taking SOLs for awhile now.

That is fcked up.

That is how computer adaptive testing works though. Mess up early and you might not get a chance to answer the harder questions. Early screw ups of a missed couple of easy questions can explain why scores and vary widely between tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids in AAP should be passing advanced on the SOL. The entire reason they are in AAP is that they are academically advanced, it is in the title. If kids are not passing advanced in AAP, then their participation should be reconsidered.

Parents can parse the scores all that they want but kids in AAP are supposed to be ahead of the other kids. Passing advanced should not be a heavy lift. We deferred AAP and kid has passed advanced on every SOL without the benefit of being in a LIV classroom but parents who are on this site talking about how their kid needs the AAP cohort and pacing because they are so bored in the gen ed classroom are passing proficient on the SOL.

Your kids spent a month reviewing SOL questions and being told how to answer them correctly, the test should not have tripped them up.

Way back when SOL tests were first introduced at TJ we would literally laugh at them, no teacher ever mentioned them, and we all at least passed (the curriculum was very different than what was tested in some subjects so pass advanced wasn't always guaranteed).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both of my kids pass advanced on reading SOL (4th, 7th). Interestingly, my 7th grader said their English teacher specifically said to pay close attention to the first passage and triple check answers because the test is adaptive and very difficult to pass advanced if you mess up at the start. I hadn’t heard that before and my kids have been taking SOLs for awhile now.

That is fcked up.

That is how computer adaptive testing works though. Mess up early and you might not get a chance to answer the harder questions. Early screw ups of a missed couple of easy questions can explain why scores and vary widely between tests.

I guess I hadn’t realized there was no way to redeem yourself if you screwed up early on. I also thought it was interesting that no teacher had emphasized that in the past — It was a helpful reminder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids in AAP should be passing advanced on the SOL. The entire reason they are in AAP is that they are academically advanced, it is in the title. If kids are not passing advanced in AAP, then their participation should be reconsidered.

Parents can parse the scores all that they want but kids in AAP are supposed to be ahead of the other kids. Passing advanced should not be a heavy lift. We deferred AAP and kid has passed advanced on every SOL without the benefit of being in a LIV classroom but parents who are on this site talking about how their kid needs the AAP cohort and pacing because they are so bored in the gen ed classroom are passing proficient on the SOL.

Your kids spent a month reviewing SOL questions and being told how to answer them correctly, the test should not have tripped them up.

+1 It speaks to how low quality the AAP program is that students in that program would not pass Advanced. What are they achieving in Reading? It also speaks to the low quality of students who are getting all of these extensions and can’t apply them on an SOL. Too many tutored and over-prepped kids don’t learn how to do things on their own.

Lol. I guess you haven't realized the language arts program this year was the exact same between gen ed and AAP. There were no extentions for AAP.

This is problem with a one size fits all curriculum. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses so a static curriculum is going to challenge weaker students more than stronger students. And you get this sort of end result. Now let's see what happens when ALL students are appropriately challenged with differentiated instruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids in AAP should be passing advanced on the SOL. The entire reason they are in AAP is that they are academically advanced, it is in the title. If kids are not passing advanced in AAP, then their participation should be reconsidered.

Parents can parse the scores all that they want but kids in AAP are supposed to be ahead of the other kids. Passing advanced should not be a heavy lift. We deferred AAP and kid has passed advanced on every SOL without the benefit of being in a LIV classroom but parents who are on this site talking about how their kid needs the AAP cohort and pacing because they are so bored in the gen ed classroom are passing proficient on the SOL.

Your kids spent a month reviewing SOL questions and being told how to answer them correctly, the test should not have tripped them up.

+1 It speaks to how low quality the AAP program is that students in that program would not pass Advanced. What are they achieving in Reading? It also speaks to the low quality of students who are getting all of these extensions and can’t apply them on an SOL. Too many tutored and over-prepped kids don’t learn how to do things on their own.

Lol. I guess you haven't realized the language arts program this year was the exact same between gen ed and AAP. There were no extentions for AAP.

This is problem with a one size fits all curriculum. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses so a static curriculum is going to challenge weaker students more than stronger students. And you get this sort of end result. Now let's see what happens when ALL students are appropriately challenged with differentiated instruction.

Kids who were advanced last year are no longer advanced because of benchmark. You are trying to tell me that your kid who requires LIV cannot score 83% on a test meant to make sure that kids are meeting state standards? All the parents on this forum going on about their kid with a 140 CoGAT and 99% iReady and why are the HOPE scores so bad because my kid is a genius, but they can't score a 500 on the SOL because of benchmark?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids in AAP should be passing advanced on the SOL. The entire reason they are in AAP is that they are academically advanced, it is in the title. If kids are not passing advanced in AAP, then their participation should be reconsidered.

Parents can parse the scores all that they want but kids in AAP are supposed to be ahead of the other kids. Passing advanced should not be a heavy lift. We deferred AAP and kid has passed advanced on every SOL without the benefit of being in a LIV classroom but parents who are on this site talking about how their kid needs the AAP cohort and pacing because they are so bored in the gen ed classroom are passing proficient on the SOL.

Your kids spent a month reviewing SOL questions and being told how to answer them correctly, the test should not have tripped them up.

+1 It speaks to how low quality the AAP program is that students in that program would not pass Advanced. What are they achieving in Reading? It also speaks to the low quality of students who are getting all of these extensions and can’t apply them on an SOL. Too many tutored and over-prepped kids don’t learn how to do things on their own.

Lol. I guess you haven't realized the language arts program this year was the exact same between gen ed and AAP. There were no extentions for AAP.

This is problem with a one size fits all curriculum. Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses so a static curriculum is going to challenge weaker students more than stronger students. And you get this sort of end result. Now let's see what happens when ALL students are appropriately challenged with differentiated instruction.

Kids who were advanced last year are no longer advanced because of benchmark. You are trying to tell me that your kid who requires LIV cannot score 83% on a test meant to make sure that kids are meeting state standards? All the parents on this forum going on about their kid with a 140 CoGAT and 99% iReady and why are the HOPE scores so bad because my kid is a genius, but they can't score a 500 on the SOL because of benchmark?

Cmon, 99.9% of kids aren't self studying the definition of foreshadowing or whatever at home. To a certain extent, above grade level material does need to be presented. Again, there was no above grade level LA material presented this entire year so it shouldn't be surprising that a lot of kids who might otherwise have the ability to do so are not scoring in the advanced column.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids in AAP should be passing advanced on the SOL. The entire reason they are in AAP is that they are academically advanced, it is in the title. If kids are not passing advanced in AAP, then their participation should be reconsidered.

Parents can parse the scores all that they want but kids in AAP are supposed to be ahead of the other kids. Passing advanced should not be a heavy lift. We deferred AAP and kid has passed advanced on every SOL without the benefit of being in a LIV classroom but parents who are on this site talking about how their kid needs the AAP cohort and pacing because they are so bored in the gen ed classroom are passing proficient on the SOL.

Your kids spent a month reviewing SOL questions and being told how to answer them correctly, the test should not have tripped them up.

+1 It speaks to how low quality the AAP program is that students in that program would not pass Advanced. What are they achieving in Reading? It also speaks to the low quality of students who are getting all of these extensions and can’t apply them on an SOL. Too many tutored and over-prepped kids don’t learn how to do things on their own.

+1. But this isn't a new thing. Well before Covid, my DD was rejected from AAP. The AAP parents in the neighborhood went on about how gifted their kids are and how they just cannot function in a regular classroom. My DD ended up earning a perfect scores on the 3rd grade SOLs at a school that didn't bother spending much time reviewing. Meanwhile, over half of the AAP kids at the center didn't even earn pass advanced on the reading SOL, even though the center classes (including AAP) spend about a month doing SOL prep bootcamp.

[Anonymous]

A few points that might be helpful for parents freaking out. (teacher here home with a sick baby).

The i-ready does not meaningfully test comprehension. Yes, there are passages. But the test is weighed in a way where those make up only 40 percent of your child's score. The other 60 percent. Phonics, phonemic awareness vocab, etc. Your kids are maxing out on these and probably testing on grade level or slightly above on the comprehension sections. This is skewing the scores higher (oddly, if your child is dyslexic it basically tanks the scores hence showing a real issue -- that's why the i-ready was really a screener for that reading issue but they managed to sell it to replace an actual teacher reading solo with your kid and assessing their skills with that).

The reading comprehension section was indeed harder. The state is making the test more challenging on almost a yearly basis. So, this drift of scores down is expected.

[Anonymous]

Your kids i-ready scores are inflated basically...

[Anonymous]

OP here. I will be first to admit I've changed my mind. I think if benchmark were at fault, iready scores would be trending down. My child's actually showed good growth from fall to winter. 975 lexile per iready, so I don't think there's a hidden comprehension issue skewing results.

I think instead the SOL is an outlier for whatever reason- perhaps they made the cut scores crazy this year? I will say for math, my child reported content on there that is not in the third grade standards. 100% not mentioned. I searched and it appears for the first time in (2023) fourth grade standards. Maybe it's a pilot question but I was thinking perhaps if they sprinkled an above grade level question or two in there, and your kid happens to miss it, then they have the cut score in such a way that the kid won't score pass advanced?

Signing off here. I'm convinced this whole thing is not something specific to only my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I will be first to admit I've changed my mind. I think if benchmark were at fault, iready scores would be trending down. My child's actually showed good growth from fall to winter. 975 lexile per iready, so I don't think there's a hidden comprehension issue skewing results.

I think instead the SOL is an outlier for whatever reason- perhaps they made the cut scores crazy this year? I will say for math, my child reported content on there that is not in the third grade standards. 100% not mentioned. I searched and it appears for the first time in (2023) fourth grade standards. Maybe it's a pilot question but I was thinking perhaps if they sprinkled an above grade level question or two in there, and your kid happens to miss it, then they have the cut score in such a way that the kid won't score pass advanced?

Signing off here. I'm convinced this whole thing is not something specific to only my kid.

That is because the tests are adaptive. In math, that means that the test will give harder questions until the child gets something wrong. It will move into material from the next grade level. DS commonly reported seeing questions on material that he had not been exposed to. Sometimes he was able to figure out the correct answer on his own sometimes he was bummed that the answer was easy to get with a little bit of additional information.

Both the Reading and Math SOL have been revamped. We have the raw scores now so there is a chance that things will be adjusted on the margins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I will be first to admit I've changed my mind. I think if benchmark were at fault, iready scores would be trending down. My child's actually showed good growth from fall to winter. 975 lexile per iready, so I don't think there's a hidden comprehension issue skewing results.

I think instead the SOL is an outlier for whatever reason- perhaps they made the cut scores crazy this year? I will say for math, my child reported content on there that is not in the third grade standards. 100% not mentioned. I searched and it appears for the first time in (2023) fourth grade standards. Maybe it's a pilot question but I was thinking perhaps if they sprinkled an above grade level question or two in there, and your kid happens to miss it, then they have the cut score in such a way that the kid won't score pass advanced?

Signing off here. I'm convinced this whole thing is not something specific to only my kid.

Or maybe your kid had an off day. You have a 3rd grader, OP, you need to chill out on the scores obsession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow people are unkind. There's nothing wrong with your child, OP.

My AAP kid got a 481 in LA, so pass proficient. Which seems perfectly fine to me (I did come here to see what the number meant, since I had no other context and they're in 3rd grade). The more important thing is that they love school and seem to be learning and thriving.

My kid got almost the same score. I know what he’s capable of, so I don’t care about the score at all. It does not reflect his true knowledge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both of my kids pass advanced on reading SOL (4th, 7th). Interestingly, my 7th grader said their English teacher specifically said to pay close attention to the first passage and triple check answers because the test is adaptive and very difficult to pass advanced if you mess up at the start. I hadn’t heard that before and my kids have been taking SOLs for awhile now.

That is fcked up.

That is how computer adaptive testing works though. Mess up early and you might not get a chance to answer the harder questions. Early screw ups of a missed couple of easy questions can explain why scores and vary widely between tests.

Actually, no, that's not how it works.

With adaptive testing, it should continually try to adjust until it converges. The test should not stop until it's found a balance of "just hard enough" questions your child can't answer and questions below that difficulty it reliably can. At least according to test theory, and specifically IRT.

Whether or not the actual SOL has the depth and implementation to do this correctly is another question.

[Anonymous]

May I know what do u mean by benchmark?