Did they change 3rd grade advanced math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP feel free to bubble up questions and concerns to you principal and association superintendent for your region, as well as possibly the below.

School board: https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/contact-us/school-board

AAP advisory committee: https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/contact-us/advanced-academic-programs-advisory-committee

This was a good contribution by PP, and one that concerned parents should utilize to get the facts and the "party line" on why. It is so wrong-headed to think you are benefitting anybody by taking away options from bright URMs and non-minority kids in school so only the well-off can buy a good education at AOPS or RSM or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At BTSN, my kid’s teacher said they cover 3rd grade and 1/4 of 4th grade (AAP center). Not sure of exact pacing after that, but 6th graders still get to test into Alg I, so I think it’s fine. I generally think acceleration (vs going deeper) is a race to nowhere.

Up through last year it was 1/2 of 4th grade, so that by 5th grade they were fully learning 6th grade math and took the math 6 SOL. Is that planned to change?

"Going deeper" is often a euphemism for "making gifted kids teach their classmates" or "making gifted kids infer how to work a problem from a few examples" rather than doing the kind of going deeper that AOPS or Singapore Math or the like would do. The problem is not actually with going deeper, but that overburdened teachers don't really do that. Acceleration ensures that advanced kids can be at least somewhat challenged simply by the nature of the pace. I think so many people prefer it because it provides a bare minimum standard to be met that is at least a little (depending on your kid and their skillset) interesting. "Going deeper" is too fuzzy without a solid curriculum behind it, and heavens knows VDOE and FCPS haven't put out a solid curriculum for math in decades. Back in 2000 Virginia was held up as a state on the right side of the math wars, but it's been going downhill since.

This makes sense. I have a 3 grader and a 5 grader in AAP. 5th grader is ready for 6th grade math this year based on the foundation laid in 3rd and 4th. 3rd grader is currently learning place value and rounding, so I'm guessing he will fall behind where his sibling was by 4th grade. It's all kind of odd because the younger child has more of an interest in math.

I just looked at math for the other grades and they've ALL been gutted. My kindergartener can do most of the stuff they have listed for end of first grade. What they have listed as Kindergarten math looks more like PreK math imo. WTH.

The state standards changed. So Kindergarten changes are due to state not FCPS. Adv math in 3rd and 4th are FCPS decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I could have sworn when I looked at this curriculum pacing guide last spring, the advanced math for grade 3 was acceleration over gen Ed math. But this graph is basically identical as gen Ed for pacing, and with only a few more bullet points (extensions) for each unit. Am I crazy?

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/elementary/third-grade/year-at-a-glance/advanced-math

FCPS is discouraging and eliminating advanced math and math acceleration opportunities because they believe they will further their racial equity goals by doing so. Essentially, FCPS is seeking to close the racial achievement gap "from the top down" by holding back the kids at the top.

This approach could ultimately be effective at "closing the gap."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could have sworn when I looked at this curriculum pacing guide last spring, the advanced math for grade 3 was acceleration over gen Ed math. But this graph is basically identical as gen Ed for pacing, and with only a few more bullet points (extensions) for each unit. Am I crazy?

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/elementary/third-grade/year-at-a-glance/advanced-math

FCPS is discouraging and eliminating advanced math and math acceleration opportunities because they believe they will further their racial equity goals by doing so. Essentially, FCPS is seeking to close the racial achievement gap "from the top down" by holding back the kids at the top.

This approach could ultimately be effective at "closing the gap."

If anyone thinks advantaged families will stop finding ways to perpetuate their advantage, they are crazy. And by advantaged I include the majority of DCUM posters.

All reducing acceleration opportunities in public does is take them from people who can't afford private or enrichment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could have sworn when I looked at this curriculum pacing guide last spring, the advanced math for grade 3 was acceleration over gen Ed math. But this graph is basically identical as gen Ed for pacing, and with only a few more bullet points (extensions) for each unit. Am I crazy?

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/elementary/third-grade/year-at-a-glance/advanced-math

FCPS is discouraging and eliminating advanced math and math acceleration opportunities because they believe they will further their racial equity goals by doing so. Essentially, FCPS is seeking to close the racial achievement gap "from the top down" by holding back the kids at the top.

This approach could ultimately be effective at "closing the gap."

If anyone thinks advantaged families will stop finding ways to perpetuate their advantage, they are crazy. And by advantaged I include the majority of DCUM posters.

All reducing acceleration opportunities in public does is take them from people who can't afford private or enrichment.

Yep my kids are getting a great education with our supplementing and it is becoming painfully obvious that their less fortunate but highly intelligent peers are academically declining in comparison.

By all accounts, they will all get good grades so equity will be achieved…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At BTSN, my kid’s teacher said they cover 3rd grade and 1/4 of 4th grade (AAP center). Not sure of exact pacing after that, but 6th graders still get to test into Alg I, so I think it’s fine. I generally think acceleration (vs going deeper) is a race to nowhere.

Up through last year it was 1/2 of 4th grade, so that by 5th grade they were fully learning 6th grade math and took the math 6 SOL. Is that planned to change?

"Going deeper" is often a euphemism for "making gifted kids teach their classmates" or "making gifted kids infer how to work a problem from a few examples" rather than doing the kind of going deeper that AOPS or Singapore Math or the like would do. The problem is not actually with going deeper, but that overburdened teachers don't really do that. Acceleration ensures that advanced kids can be at least somewhat challenged simply by the nature of the pace. I think so many people prefer it because it provides a bare minimum standard to be met that is at least a little (depending on your kid and their skillset) interesting. "Going deeper" is too fuzzy without a solid curriculum behind it, and heavens knows VDOE and FCPS haven't put out a solid curriculum for math in decades. Back in 2000 Virginia was held up as a state on the right side of the math wars, but it's been going downhill since.

This makes sense. I have a 3 grader and a 5 grader in AAP. 5th grader is ready for 6th grade math this year based on the foundation laid in 3rd and 4th. 3rd grader is currently learning place value and rounding, so I'm guessing he will fall behind where his sibling was by 4th grade. It's all kind of odd because the younger child has more of an interest in math.

I just looked at math for the other grades and they've ALL been gutted. My kindergartener can do most of the stuff they have listed for end of first grade. What they have listed as Kindergarten math looks more like PreK math imo. WTH.

The state standards changed. So Kindergarten changes are due to state not FCPS. Adv math in 3rd and 4th are FCPS decisions.

Advanced Math in 3 and 4 teach math from 4th and 5th. If the State made changes to the entire math curriculum for ES, then the 4th and 5th grade math curriculum would be changed, which would alter Advanced Math in FCPS. It could be that the new Advanced Math is using whatever the new 4th and 5th grade curriculum is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could have sworn when I looked at this curriculum pacing guide last spring, the advanced math for grade 3 was acceleration over gen Ed math. But this graph is basically identical as gen Ed for pacing, and with only a few more bullet points (extensions) for each unit. Am I crazy?

https://www.fcps.edu/academics/elementary/third-grade/year-at-a-glance/advanced-math

FCPS is discouraging and eliminating advanced math and math acceleration opportunities because they believe they will further their racial equity goals by doing so. Essentially, FCPS is seeking to close the racial achievement gap "from the top down" by holding back the kids at the top.

This approach could ultimately be effective at "closing the gap."

FCPS is trying to get more students into Algebra in 8th grade. Right now the path to Algebra in 8th grade is Advanced Math/AAP to 7th Grade Honors to Algebra 1 in 8th. I believe that you can move from Regular Math in 6th grade to 7th H to Algebra 1 in 8th but I think that is less common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At BTSN, my kid’s teacher said they cover 3rd grade and 1/4 of 4th grade (AAP center). Not sure of exact pacing after that, but 6th graders still get to test into Alg I, so I think it’s fine. I generally think acceleration (vs going deeper) is a race to nowhere.

Up through last year it was 1/2 of 4th grade, so that by 5th grade they were fully learning 6th grade math and took the math 6 SOL. Is that planned to change?

"Going deeper" is often a euphemism for "making gifted kids teach their classmates" or "making gifted kids infer how to work a problem from a few examples" rather than doing the kind of going deeper that AOPS or Singapore Math or the like would do. The problem is not actually with going deeper, but that overburdened teachers don't really do that. Acceleration ensures that advanced kids can be at least somewhat challenged simply by the nature of the pace. I think so many people prefer it because it provides a bare minimum standard to be met that is at least a little (depending on your kid and their skillset) interesting. "Going deeper" is too fuzzy without a solid curriculum behind it, and heavens knows VDOE and FCPS haven't put out a solid curriculum for math in decades. Back in 2000 Virginia was held up as a state on the right side of the math wars, but it's been going downhill since.

This makes sense. I have a 3 grader and a 5 grader in AAP. 5th grader is ready for 6th grade math this year based on the foundation laid in 3rd and 4th. 3rd grader is currently learning place value and rounding, so I'm guessing he will fall behind where his sibling was by 4th grade. It's all kind of odd because the younger child has more of an interest in math.

I just looked at math for the other grades and they've ALL been gutted. My kindergartener can do most of the stuff they have listed for end of first grade. What they have listed as Kindergarten math looks more like PreK math imo. WTH.

The state standards changed. So Kindergarten changes are due to state not FCPS. Adv math in 3rd and 4th are FCPS decisions.

Advanced Math in 3 and 4 teach math from 4th and 5th. If the State made changes to the entire math curriculum for ES, then the 4th and 5th grade math curriculum would be changed, which would alter Advanced Math in FCPS. It could be that the new Advanced Math is using whatever the new 4th and 5th grade curriculum is.

If the state really dumbed down all of math then the Dems should be all over it, as Youngkin ran partially on increasing rigor in schools and was very noisy about putting his people on the BOE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At BTSN, my kid’s teacher said they cover 3rd grade and 1/4 of 4th grade (AAP center). Not sure of exact pacing after that, but 6th graders still get to test into Alg I, so I think it’s fine. I generally think acceleration (vs going deeper) is a race to nowhere.

Up through last year it was 1/2 of 4th grade, so that by 5th grade they were fully learning 6th grade math and took the math 6 SOL. Is that planned to change?

"Going deeper" is often a euphemism for "making gifted kids teach their classmates" or "making gifted kids infer how to work a problem from a few examples" rather than doing the kind of going deeper that AOPS or Singapore Math or the like would do. The problem is not actually with going deeper, but that overburdened teachers don't really do that. Acceleration ensures that advanced kids can be at least somewhat challenged simply by the nature of the pace. I think so many people prefer it because it provides a bare minimum standard to be met that is at least a little (depending on your kid and their skillset) interesting. "Going deeper" is too fuzzy without a solid curriculum behind it, and heavens knows VDOE and FCPS haven't put out a solid curriculum for math in decades. Back in 2000 Virginia was held up as a state on the right side of the math wars, but it's been going downhill since.

This makes sense. I have a 3 grader and a 5 grader in AAP. 5th grader is ready for 6th grade math this year based on the foundation laid in 3rd and 4th. 3rd grader is currently learning place value and rounding, so I'm guessing he will fall behind where his sibling was by 4th grade. It's all kind of odd because the younger child has more of an interest in math.

I just looked at math for the other grades and they've ALL been gutted. My kindergartener can do most of the stuff they have listed for end of first grade. What they have listed as Kindergarten math looks more like PreK math imo. WTH.

The state standards changed. So Kindergarten changes are due to state not FCPS. Adv math in 3rd and 4th are FCPS decisions.

Advanced Math in 3 and 4 teach math from 4th and 5th. If the State made changes to the entire math curriculum for ES, then the 4th and 5th grade math curriculum would be changed, which would alter Advanced Math in FCPS. It could be that the new Advanced Math is using whatever the new 4th and 5th grade curriculum is.

If the state really dumbed down all of math then the Dems should be all over it, as Youngkin ran partially on increasing rigor in schools and was very noisy about putting his people on the BOE.

There have been a multitude of posts in this topic that said that the VDOE changed the math standards. The response to that was that FCPS controls Advanced Math only and so must have decreased the math being taught in Advanced Math. What people are not taking into consideration is that the standards for 4th and 5th grade shifted as well. FCPS is continuing Advanced Math but now using the new 4th and 5th grade standards.

[Anonymous]

I was told that 3rd grade Advanced Math in AAP is still the same material as 3rd grade math in gen Ed. The ONLY difference is that the AAP student is graded differently than the Gen Ed student. They see the same material, work on the same material.

Similar for 4th grade math regarding AAP vs Gen Ed.

In 5th grade, AAP students get the acceleration and they are accelerated to 6th grade math.

Basically, math acceleration in AAP start in 5th grade in practice.

Correct me if I am wrong on any of this. I got this info from AAP orientationmeetings in spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was told that 3rd grade Advanced Math in AAP is still the same material as 3rd grade math in gen Ed. The ONLY difference is that the AAP student is graded differently than the Gen Ed student. They see the same material, work on the same material.

Similar for 4th grade math regarding AAP vs Gen Ed.

In 5th grade, AAP students get the acceleration and they are accelerated to 6th grade math.

Basically, math acceleration in AAP start in 5th grade in practice.

Correct me if I am wrong on any of this. I got this info from AAP orientationmeetings in spring.

That may be at your local school, but it's definitely not universal. At our center 3rd grade does 50% of 4th and in 4th they do 75% of 5th. Then in 5th they do 6th. That's directly from our BTSN information, which aligned with the information from the welcome event last spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At BTSN, my kid’s teacher said they cover 3rd grade and 1/4 of 4th grade (AAP center). Not sure of exact pacing after that, but 6th graders still get to test into Alg I, so I think it’s fine. I generally think acceleration (vs going deeper) is a race to nowhere.

Up through last year it was 1/2 of 4th grade, so that by 5th grade they were fully learning 6th grade math and took the math 6 SOL. Is that planned to change?

"Going deeper" is often a euphemism for "making gifted kids teach their classmates" or "making gifted kids infer how to work a problem from a few examples" rather than doing the kind of going deeper that AOPS or Singapore Math or the like would do. The problem is not actually with going deeper, but that overburdened teachers don't really do that. Acceleration ensures that advanced kids can be at least somewhat challenged simply by the nature of the pace. I think so many people prefer it because it provides a bare minimum standard to be met that is at least a little (depending on your kid and their skillset) interesting. "Going deeper" is too fuzzy without a solid curriculum behind it, and heavens knows VDOE and FCPS haven't put out a solid curriculum for math in decades. Back in 2000 Virginia was held up as a state on the right side of the math wars, but it's been going downhill since.

This makes sense. I have a 3 grader and a 5 grader in AAP. 5th grader is ready for 6th grade math this year based on the foundation laid in 3rd and 4th. 3rd grader is currently learning place value and rounding, so I'm guessing he will fall behind where his sibling was by 4th grade. It's all kind of odd because the younger child has more of an interest in math.

I just looked at math for the other grades and they've ALL been gutted. My kindergartener can do most of the stuff they have listed for end of first grade. What they have listed as Kindergarten math looks more like PreK math imo. WTH.

The state standards changed. So Kindergarten changes are due to state not FCPS. Adv math in 3rd and 4th are FCPS decisions.

Advanced Math in 3 and 4 teach math from 4th and 5th. If the State made changes to the entire math curriculum for ES, then the 4th and 5th grade math curriculum would be changed, which would alter Advanced Math in FCPS. It could be that the new Advanced Math is using whatever the new 4th and 5th grade curriculum is.

If the state really dumbed down all of math then the Dems should be all over it, as Youngkin ran partially on increasing rigor in schools and was very noisy about putting his people on the BOE.

VDOE did not make these changes. The changes came exclusively from FCPS / Gatehouse.

[Anonymous]

It’s E3 math. It is intentionally designed to provide a little acceleration and remove tracking. This way everyone can get ready for Algebra in 8th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s E3 math. It is intentionally designed to provide a little acceleration and remove tracking. This way everyone can get ready for Algebra in 8th.

E3 math stands for "Equity Cubed."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s E3 math. It is intentionally designed to provide a little acceleration and remove tracking. This way everyone can get ready for Algebra in 8th.

E3 math has been piloted by FCPS exclusively for the past several years.

E3 is NOT coming from the Commonwealth / VDOE.