Any New Immersion Parents Worried that the program might get dismantled due to budget cuts?

[Anonymous]

I admit I'm a worrier, so maybe this is just my nerves talking. But, I keep hearing bits and pieces here and there from parents worried about the ending of the immersion program due to budget cuts. It costs $1.6 Mil (not sure why, but that's what the budget report said), so there's a reason to cut it or severely trim it. I worry about having made the sacrifice to leave our neighborhood school for immersion and then it's all cut. Does anyone know with more information how serious this might actually be?

[Anonymous]

It has been on the "chopping block" for years, but it is a high priority program for FCPS and has never been truly at risk. There are bigger fish to fry in other places that would have less impact on the efficacy and competitiveness of FCPS, such as cutting busing to non-base schools for AAP students.

Whenever it is discussed, it is usually taken off the table almost immediately because they realize the bang for the buck is totally worth it - the costs are almost completely administrative (re: the lottery, staffing the Immersion office, etc) because they don't have to hire additional teachers and the curriculum costs aren't any different from a regular classroom. If you got rid of the program, you'd just have to hire English speaking teachers to replace the target-language teachers, because you still have the same number of students needing a teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I admit I'm a worrier, so maybe this is just my nerves talking. But, I keep hearing bits and pieces here and there from parents worried about the ending of the immersion program due to budget cuts. It costs $1.6 Mil (not sure why, but that's what the budget report said), so there's a reason to cut it or severely trim it. I worry about having made the sacrifice to leave our neighborhood school for immersion and then it's all cut. Does anyone know with more information how serious this might actually be?

What is the sacrifice exactly?

[Anonymous]

If you deny the science that supports the value in bilingual education, than nothing I suppose.

[Anonymous]

Of course it's on the chopping block. It affects far fewer kids than AAP, and the extra overhead is the same: administrative only- not instructional. Both involve allowing kids to choose a different school for not good reason & immersion encourages ESL kids to come (or so say opponents). There would be He** to pay if they eliminated AAP Centers, but kept immersion.

[Anonymous]

In a budget situation that took into account the needs/ best interests of the kids, kids already at another school for a immersion, AAP or magnet would be grandfathered and not affected by any changes, and programs would be phased out. But good luck trying to get the "your kid is getting special treatment" crowd to agree with that.

[Anonymous]

Of course it's on the chopping block. It affects far fewer kids than AAP, and the extra overhead is the same: administrative only- not instructional. Both involve allowing kids to choose a different school for not good reason & immersion encourages ESL kids to come (or so say opponents). There would be He** to pay if they eliminated AAP Centers, but kept immersion.

This is incorrect. FCPS provides busing for AAP students from their base schools to the center schools. I don't think FCPS would have to eliminate AAP centers, but they should eliminate busing to those centers. Immersion students are not provided busing to immersion schools.

Also, curious about your other assertion - how does immersion encourage ESL kids? At my son's immersion program, you are admitted by lottery. Are you saying ESL kids move to Fairfax County (because of its low cost of living, LOL) on the off chance that they might win a seat in one of the few classes via lottery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Of course it's on the chopping block. It affects far fewer kids than AAP, and the extra overhead is the same: administrative only- not instructional. Both involve allowing kids to choose a different school for not good reason & immersion encourages ESL kids to come (or so say opponents). There would be He** to pay if they eliminated AAP Centers, but kept immersion.

This is incorrect. FCPS provides busing for AAP students from their base schools to the center schools. I don't think FCPS would have to eliminate AAP centers, but they should eliminate busing to those centers. Immersion students are not provided busing to immersion schools.

Also, curious about your other assertion - how does immersion encourage ESL kids? At my son's immersion program, you are admitted by lottery. Are you saying ESL kids move to Fairfax County (because of its low cost of living, LOL) on the off chance that they might win a seat in one of the few classes via lottery?

I'm the PP here, and I don't think immersion does increase ESL kids. But I keep seeing that assertion on this board-- get rid of Immersion, because it primarily serves ESL kids, and encourages ESL kids who can get instruction in their primary language. But that's not my argument, and, like you, I seriously doubt it's validity. Then again, I don't have a child in immersion, and have no first hand experience. But I'm sure that if you wait long enough, someone will pop up on this thread stating this as a fact. You can ask them. They will likely not have answer grounded in actual data, but will adamantly this over and over.

[Anonymous]

That is, adamantly STATE this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Of course it's on the chopping block. It affects far fewer kids than AAP, and the extra overhead is the same: administrative only- not instructional. Both involve allowing kids to choose a different school for not good reason & immersion encourages ESL kids to come (or so say opponents). There would be He** to pay if they eliminated AAP Centers, but kept immersion.

This is incorrect. FCPS provides busing for AAP students from their base schools to the center schools. I don't think FCPS would have to eliminate AAP centers, but they should eliminate busing to those centers. Immersion students are not provided busing to immersion schools.

Also, curious about your other assertion - how does immersion encourage ESL kids? At my son's immersion program, you are admitted by lottery. Are you saying ESL kids move to Fairfax County (because of its low cost of living, LOL) on the off chance that they might win a seat in one of the few classes via lottery?

Busing is administrative overhead, not instructional. Also, people on this board use the number $400,000-$600,00 as the cost of busing AAP kids (no idea where this comes from or if it is valid)- but never acknowledge that a huge chunk of this cost would still be there without centers, because many AAP kids would still have to bus to base schools. My ES & MS kids both attend Centers about 2 miles from our house, and would have still have to bus to slightly closer but not walkable because of busy roads (like 1-1.5 miles away) base schools. So their extra transportation should be costing FCPS very little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Busing is administrative overhead, not instructional. Also, people on this board use the number $400,000-$600,00 as the cost of busing AAP kids (no idea where this comes from or if it is valid)- but never acknowledge that a huge chunk of this cost would still be there without centers, because many AAP kids would still have to bus to base schools. My ES & MS kids both attend Centers about 2 miles from our house, and would have still have to bus to slightly closer but not walkable because of busy roads (like 1-1.5 miles away) base schools. So their extra transportation should be costing FCPS very little.

Q# 11 from FY 2016:

School Board Member Requesting Information: Pat Hynes
Answer Prepared By: Jeffrey Platenberg, Maribeth Luftglass
Date Prepared: January 13, 2015

Question:
How much would FCPS save by eliminating transportation to Advanced Academic Program (AAP) centers for students who have Level IV services available at their base schools? Additionally, how many students eligible for Free or Reduced-Price Meals (FRM) attend AAP centers that are not in their base schools?

Response:
The savings that could be realized by eliminating transportation to the elementary Advanced Academic Program (AAP) centers for students who have Level IV services available at their base schools is approximately $0.7 million. This savings is for out of boundary students that attend the AAP centers, who would then return to one of the 49 elementary schools that offer Level IV services at their base school. Transportation costs would still be incurred for these students to attend services at their base school. There are 402 students attending AAP centers (325 elementary students and 77 middle school students) who are eligible to receive free or reduced-price meals and are not attending their base schools.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9WNP255A4D82/$file/FY2016Responses%20for%20Posting5-19-15.pdf

[Anonymous]

Immersion parent here...not worried because I think they would have to grandfather current students in. The thing about bussing AAP students - in theory, this is a learning accommodation, so unless they put centers at all schools, I see it as no different than bussing qualified kids to special Ed schools/alternative schools. Do I think there are more kids than necessary in AAP? Hell yes. But you can't force parents to drive them like you can immersion parents. (And, hell yes, I'd like a bus to our immersion program that is 2.5 miles away, but that's the way the game is played...)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I admit I'm a worrier, so maybe this is just my nerves talking. But, I keep hearing bits and pieces here and there from parents worried about the ending of the immersion program due to budget cuts. It costs $1.6 Mil (not sure why, but that's what the budget report said), so there's a reason to cut it or severely trim it. I worry about having made the sacrifice to leave our neighborhood school for immersion and then it's all cut. Does anyone know with more information how serious this might actually be?

I think the Korean program at CP could be a gonner. It really wasn't as popular as they though it would be. This year lots of second grader's dropped out. It just isn't one of those languages that are worth it for future employment, unless you go live in Korea, of course.

[Anonymous]

This is the second time I've seen immersion on the chopping block, and I hear from other parents that it comes up every 4-5 years. I'm not totally worried because my youngest kid would be grandfathers (one really hopes) and like other posters said, it is a good program. I do remember a few years ago the Fairfax Flags group brought out some really big supporters - you'd be surprised who's kids when through the program and which agencies love the kids from the program since they can pick up languages very easily. I will lobby to support immersion.

What I don't understand is why everyone supports AAP so much when the immersion kids end up "ahead" of the AAP kids at 7th grade. Immersion kids take language I in 7th grade and can test into Honors Algebra. The AAP kids can only test into Honors Algebra. AAP doesn't matter after 6th grade, but immersion makes a difference the whole 12 years.

[Anonymous]

I worry that at some point the grandfathering would have to be stopped. There's going to sale aye be new siblings, so at some point they'll have to say no more sibs can be accommodated.