Any New Immersion Parents Worried that the program might get dismantled due to budget cuts?

[Anonymous]

09:05 -- is it a race in middle school?

[Anonymous]

Bailey's should be renamed to el Salvador

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:09:05 -- is it a race in middle school?

[/quote

It is a race, only because we wanted to avoid the AAP race so we did immersion and my DC is "ahead" of some snowflakes I have had to listen about for years. Wasn't the goal when we started, but I am on so pleased with how everything turned out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:09:05 -- is it a race in middle school?

It is a race, only because we wanted to avoid the AAP race so we did immersion and my DC is "ahead" of some snowflakes I have had to listen about for years. Wasn't the goal when we started, but I am on so pleased with how everything turned out.

So sorry you feel you need to "race" your child against others. I hope all works out well in high school and college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I admit I'm a worrier, so maybe this is just my nerves talking. But, I keep hearing bits and pieces here and there from parents worried about the ending of the immersion program due to budget cuts. It costs $1.6 Mil (not sure why, but that's what the budget report said), so there's a reason to cut it or severely trim it. I worry about having made the sacrifice to leave our neighborhood school for immersion and then it's all cut. Does anyone know with more information how serious this might actually be?

Immersion schools get extra staff. I think it's 1 teacher and an aid and is supposed to balance out the attrition aka lessen impacts on class sizes. What really happens is not pretty. If you start with 27 in the program and it reaches less than 15 just how many do you think are in the classroom? How do the numbers balance out? It drains resources from regular education. This article explains the drain:
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2013/feb/05/french-immersion-herndon-elementary-jeopardy/

Immersion schools fight to not do splits or combo grade classes so everybody suffers. Spanish immersion is another tool for esol.

As an actual immersion parent, I'll tell you what is going on at my school. There were 52 2nd grade immersion students for 2 classes of 26, when we started. Yes, we lost kids to AAP in 3rd grade (my estimate is about 7-8) and there was some attrition due to military/job transfers. Our two immersion class sizes went down to about 20-22 by the end of third. So, in 4th, they have folded one class of immersion into the rest of the 4th grade, and kept one class together (I assume to balance class sizes, but I don't know). The kids who are folded in to other classrooms are still immersion - but they do English with their respective teachers and go to my child's homeroom teacher for Math/Science in Spanish. My child's English/SS teacher is also teaching 5th grade immersion students.

So rather than hypothesizing about what happens, there's an actual story. My kid would still need a teacher, immersion or not. And I can't think of ONE student in our grade that is ESOL. Not a one.

[Anonymous]

One of the big problems with immersion is that they are not located in AAP centers. So parents want the prestige of AAP and dump immersion. If they were co-located, there would be less of a drain. Of course, some choose to stay and take local level services, but the majority seem to leave. And when they leave, they can't be replaced.

Also - losing kids due to military transfers is a problem in our area. It is frustrating as an immersion parent who is in it for the long haul.

[Anonymous]

One of the big problems with immersion is that they are not located in AAP centers. So parents want the prestige of AAP and dump immersion. If they were co-located, there would be less of a drain. Of course, some choose to stay and take local level services, but the majority seem to leave. And when they leave, they can't be replaced.

Also - losing kids due to military transfers is a problem in our area. It is frustrating as an immersion parent who is in it for the long haul.

That is a pretty big assumption. Do you have numbers to back this up? My son was "in pool" and offered level IV AAP services, but we never even considered sending him to a center. We think language immersion is much more important than anything AAP has to offer. We know that at least 2 of his friends were also offered level IV services and declined so they could stay in immersion.

Yes, some people to go ahead and switch, but I highly doubt it is a "majority" of the ones who are offered AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

One of the big problems with immersion is that they are not located in AAP centers. So parents want the prestige of AAP and dump immersion. If they were co-located, there would be less of a drain. Of course, some choose to stay and take local level services, but the majority seem to leave. And when they leave, they can't be replaced.

Also - losing kids due to military transfers is a problem in our area. It is frustrating as an immersion parent who is in it for the long haul.

That is a pretty big assumption. Do you have numbers to back this up? My son was "in pool" and offered level IV AAP services, but we never even considered sending him to a center. We think language immersion is much more important than anything AAP has to offer. We know that at least 2 of his friends were also offered level IV services and declined so they could stay in immersion.

Yes, some people to go ahead and switch, but I highly doubt it is a "majority" of the ones who are offered AAP.

I'm basing it purely on what I see happening at my school. You are correct in that I don't know how many immersion students were offered AAP, but I am well aware of who left for AAP, and who my child has told me (and NOT because I inquired about this) goes to the AAP teacher in school for math, etc. I have seen it discussed on our Facebook PTA page. I actually do believe, at our school, a majority of those offered AAP leave immersion. Majority can mean 51%, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I admit I'm a worrier, so maybe this is just my nerves talking. But, I keep hearing bits and pieces here and there from parents worried about the ending of the immersion program due to budget cuts. It costs $1.6 Mil (not sure why, but that's what the budget report said), so there's a reason to cut it or severely trim it. I worry about having made the sacrifice to leave our neighborhood school for immersion and then it's all cut. Does anyone know with more information how serious this might actually be?

Immersion schools get extra staff. I think it's 1 teacher and an aid and is supposed to balance out the attrition aka lessen impacts on class sizes. What really happens is not pretty. If you start with 27 in the program and it reaches less than 15 just how many do you think are in the classroom? How do the numbers balance out? It drains resources from regular education. This article explains the drain:
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2013/feb/05/french-immersion-herndon-elementary-jeopardy/

Immersion schools fight to not do splits or combo grade classes so everybody suffers. Spanish immersion is another tool for esol.

As an actual immersion parent, I'll tell you what is going on at my school. There were 52 2nd grade immersion students for 2 classes of 26, when we started. Yes, we lost kids to AAP in 3rd grade (my estimate is about 7-8) and there was some attrition due to military/job transfers. Our two immersion class sizes went down to about 20-22 by the end of third. So, in 4th, they have folded one class of immersion into the rest of the 4th grade, and kept one class together (I assume to balance class sizes, but I don't know). The kids who are folded in to other classrooms are still immersion - but they do English with their respective teachers and go to my child's homeroom teacher for Math/Science in Spanish. My child's English/SS teacher is also teaching 5th grade immersion students.

So rather than hypothesizing about what happens, there's an actual story. My kid would still need a teacher, immersion or not. And I can't think of ONE student in our grade that is ESOL. Not a one.

So in 4rth one class is immersion only and for the foreign language portion of the day other students are pulled out from English only classes and join your child's immersion class. How many were in the other grade 3 classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Immersion parent here...not worried because I think they would have to grandfather current students in. The thing about bussing AAP students - in theory, this is a learning accommodation, so unless they put centers at all schools, I see it as no different than bussing qualified kids to special Ed schools/alternative schools. Do I think there are more kids than necessary in AAP? Hell yes. But you can't force parents to drive them like you can immersion parents. (And, hell yes, I'd like a bus to our immersion program that is 2.5 miles away, but that's the way the game is played...)

First, there won't be real cuts. The budget is projected to increase next year, just not by enough to cover increasing expenses. This same drama exists every year, it's a ploy to raise property taxes again (tax has increased 19% since 2011 already).

But to play the game, there can not be any grandfathering. The threat is specifically next years budget, not out years. If it doesn't save money next year, it doesn't help. So you are correct to not worry, but not because of grandfathering, that's not possible.

[Anonymous]

Most of the programs are partial immersion, not two way. But actually my daughter is in a two way class and the vast majority of the native Spanish speaking kids are already bilingual. They are actually ahead of the game and help the native English speakers learn Spanish. There are a FEW who are esol, and that disappears after K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immersion parent here...not worried because I think they would have to grandfather current students in. The thing about bussing AAP students - in theory, this is a learning accommodation, so unless they put centers at all schools, I see it as no different than bussing qualified kids to special Ed schools/alternative schools. Do I think there are more kids than necessary in AAP? Hell yes. But you can't force parents to drive them like you can immersion parents. (And, hell yes, I'd like a bus to our immersion program that is 2.5 miles away, but that's the way the game is played...)

First, there won't be real cuts. The budget is projected to increase next year, just not by enough to cover increasing expenses. This same drama exists every year, it's a ploy to raise property taxes again (tax has increased 19% since 2011 already).

But to play the game, there can not be any grandfathering. The threat is specifically next years budget, not out years. If it doesn't save money next year, it doesn't help. So you are correct to not worry, but not because of grandfathering, that's not possible.

The tax rate has increased since 2011, but it is lower than it was in 1997. We moved in 1997 and it was 1.23. The rate goes up and down.

[Anonymous]

Reportedly the immersion costs are actually higher than what is listed as a Budget Tool option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reportedly the immersion costs are actually higher than what is listed as a Budget Tool option.

Source?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I admit I'm a worrier, so maybe this is just my nerves talking. But, I keep hearing bits and pieces here and there from parents worried about the ending of the immersion program due to budget cuts. It costs $1.6 Mil (not sure why, but that's what the budget report said), so there's a reason to cut it or severely trim it. I worry about having made the sacrifice to leave our neighborhood school for immersion and then it's all cut. Does anyone know with more information how serious this might actually be?

Immersion schools get extra staff. I think it's 1 teacher and an aid and is supposed to balance out the attrition aka lessen impacts on class sizes. What really happens is not pretty. If you start with 27 in the program and it reaches less than 15 just how many do you think are in the classroom? How do the numbers balance out? It drains resources from regular education. This article explains the drain:
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2013/feb/05/french-immersion-herndon-elementary-jeopardy/

Immersion schools fight to not do splits or combo grade classes so everybody suffers. Spanish immersion is another tool for esol.

Interesting. FWIW At our FCPS school immersion classes (k-2) each have 24 kids per class. I was shocked last year when I realized that the non immersion classes have about 18 kids. That is partly why some neighbors opt not to enroll kids in immersion.