VA math changes - ways to speak out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please answer this question then. Will kids be able to take Algebra in 7th and post-Calc in 12th? If so, what’s the difference between VPMI and what we have now?

As far as we know, there will no longer be post-calc options (unless you're taking summer school on your own.) Obviously, that could change, but right now everything we have seen indicates that VMPI precludes post-calc math in K-12 schools.

Not "everything":
The traditional high school pathway culminating in the study of Calculus or other advanced courses is not being eliminated.

[Anonymous]

Does VDOE realize that a lot of black and Hispanic kids are failing general Ed? Will this new pathway allow them to magically pass rather than fail? Why not address this issue first? If not addressed we will in the same position with no progress in a few years. This is not about better education for blacks or Hispanic, Basically it’s all political issue they are trying to solve by holding back advanced kids to achieve their goal. There needs to be a better way to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please answer this question then. Will kids be able to take Algebra in 7th and post-Calc in 12th? If so, what’s the difference between VPMI and what we have now?

As far as we know, there will no longer be post-calc options (unless you're taking summer school on your own.) Obviously, that could change, but right now everything we have seen indicates that VMPI precludes post-calc math in K-12 schools.

Not "everything":
The traditional high school pathway culminating in the study of Calculus or other advanced courses is not being eliminated.

The italicized does not say that post-AP Calculus classes will be offered. "Other advanced courses" could be AP Stats or something. There has actually been no explicit reassurance that dual enrollment type courses will still be an option, which blows my mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please answer this question then. Will kids be able to take Algebra in 7th and post-Calc in 12th? If so, what’s the difference between VPMI and what we have now?

As far as we know, there will no longer be post-calc options (unless you're taking summer school on your own.) Obviously, that could change, but right now everything we have seen indicates that VMPI precludes post-calc math in K-12 schools.

Not "everything":
The traditional high school pathway culminating in the study of Calculus or other advanced courses is not being eliminated.

The italicized does not say that post-AP Calculus classes will be offered. "Other advanced courses" could be AP Stats or something. There has actually been no explicit reassurance that dual enrollment type courses will still be an option, which blows my mind.

They did say dual enrollment courses will still be an option.

https://youtu.be/hEPUWhIC2tI?t=858
14:20

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please answer this question then. Will kids be able to take Algebra in 7th and post-Calc in 12th? If so, what’s the difference between VPMI and what we have now?

As far as we know, there will no longer be post-calc options (unless you're taking summer school on your own.) Obviously, that could change, but right now everything we have seen indicates that VMPI precludes post-calc math in K-12 schools.

Not "everything":
The traditional high school pathway culminating in the study of Calculus or other advanced courses is not being eliminated.

I don't think that quote clarifies anything either way. Let's see if they can provide more specifics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got a response from Tina about the specific pathway to calculus.
One of the many options that is being proposed is that a student could take grade 6 and 7 mathematics; essential concepts courses in grades 8, 9, and 10; pre-calculus in grade 11; and calculus in grade 12. Many other options and pathways will also be available.

Sincerely,
Tina

The problem with this response is if your middle schooler is in a single heterogeneous classroom with insufficient differentiation from 6th-10th grade, it is highly unlikely she will be ready for higher level math. The issue is less about calculus in 12th than it is the removal of differentiated math options in earlier grades.

Advanced kids can only learn in advanced classrooms?

Of course not, but in a truly heterogenous classroom the abilities/knowledge could be spread across 3 or more grade levels. Trust me, the teacher will not be focused on the 3 or 4 kids working one or two grade levels ahead. Differentiation meaning "here's some extra word problems while I work with the kids who are struggling" is not teaching. I'm not bashing teachers, asking them to differentiate Grade 7 math to kids at a 5th grade level and an 8th or 9th grade level is unfair to them and to the kids whose needs aren't met.

So then how will learners not “be ready for higher level math”?

The syllabus is watered down, while including other topics like data analysis, math modeling, and probability. They are focusing more on applied math, and this is taking items away from the traditional subjects.
One example they gave was intersecting chords in a circle, the lengths have the same product on each line segment. This is not something you need to know in daily life so they will drop it. It is a good example of using similar triangles and angles on the boundary of a circle. Losing things like this will make it harder in higher level math.
On top of that, just one semester of pre-calculus, combined with stuffing pre-algebra. algebra, geometry, and maybe algebra 2 into grades 7-10 is supposed to be enough to take AP calculus, all while the classes are heterogeneous, including kids who would not have qualified to take pre-calculus in 7th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In NOVA many parents of smart kids have kept their kids in “good” public schools rather than opting for private, in large part because the accelerated math opportunities were better than what most private schools offer. It’s mind boggling that anyone could see this as a good move for public schools. Hello, mediocrity.

The ground is positively fertile for a new private school (or three) in the area.

This is not mediocrity, it is below that. Rural high schools decades ago were offering algebra in middle school and calculus in high school to top students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t you bring the bottom up without limiting options for the top? I think that’s the root of the problem. No one (or most normal people) don’t mind bringing the bottom up. It’s when you limit the options at the top that people get upset.

You are speculating that there will be “limited options”.

It's not speculation. One track of heterogenous classes up through 10th grade. That's the very definition of limited options, and guaranteed it will be focused on bringing up the bottom.

School divisions will also be able to offer advanced sections and acceleration through the courses.

What is the difference between that & what we have now?

Tough to say, except that there will no longer be pre-algebra through algebra II as separate courses? I am assuming "applications of advanced algebra" is not Algebra II.

It might be an applied algebra ii. I guess this because there is a trigonometric applications class, but but no separate trigonometry.

[Anonymous]

"It certainly looks like they are backtracking, because the current documents directly contradict everything they put out before. I guess the best way to backtrack is to pretend you were never advocating what you previously said you were advocating - which was eliminating all tracking and placing kids in lockstep through 10th grade.:"

+1!
People who posting "can't you read!?! Look at what VDOE posted late Friday night!" have clearly not been following this over the last few months. I hope the late Fri doc means what it says and they have chucked this ridiculous idea of all kids of varying abilities being in the same class for K-10.

But until they admit they made a change I'm going to remain skeptical that they are playing some type of word smithing game here since the late Friday statements are literally the opposite of what they have been saying for months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does VDOE realize that a lot of black and Hispanic kids are failing general Ed? Will this new pathway allow them to magically pass rather than fail? Why not address this issue first? If not addressed we will in the same position with no progress in a few years. This is not about better education for blacks or Hispanic, Basically it’s all political issue they are trying to solve by holding back advanced kids to achieve their goal. There needs to be a better way to do it.

My understanding of the SOLs and what they have implemented already, suggests they are forcing these kids who are weak on the original math program to take classes that will be harder. It is the only way they can claim kids will be able to take calculus and that they have not dumped algebra2.
Someone posted a link early in this thread to a 2010 SOL for Math 8(pre-algebra), and it covers several algebra topics. I think these standards were lowered in the 2016 update, but there is still some algebra covered in pre-algebra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please answer this question then. Will kids be able to take Algebra in 7th and post-Calc in 12th? If so, what’s the difference between VPMI and what we have now?

As far as we know, there will no longer be post-calc options (unless you're taking summer school on your own.) Obviously, that could change, but right now everything we have seen indicates that VMPI precludes post-calc math in K-12 schools.

Not "everything":
The traditional high school pathway culminating in the study of Calculus or other advanced courses is not being eliminated.

The italicized does not say that post-AP Calculus classes will be offered. "Other advanced courses" could be AP Stats or something. There has actually been no explicit reassurance that dual enrollment type courses will still be an option, which blows my mind.

Yes, they are talking about AP Statistics, some computer science courses like sets and logic, and others. Calculus 2 or differential equations would be in dual enrollment only.
Algebra in 7th is gone starting in 2023-2024 for LCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t you bring the bottom up without limiting options for the top? I think that’s the root of the problem. No one (or most normal people) don’t mind bringing the bottom up. It’s when you limit the options at the top that people get upset.

You are speculating that there will be “limited options”.

It's not speculation. One track of heterogenous classes up through 10th grade. That's the very definition of limited options, and guaranteed it will be focused on bringing up the bottom.

School divisions will also be able to offer advanced sections and acceleration through the courses.

You keep quoting these things that *have just come out* from VDOE and *are in direct contradiction* from what VDOE has been saying for months, then berating people for speculating in an attempt to shut down discussion. You have no idea if this is an about-face, or if this is just that the spokesperson has no idea what he's talking about.

We'll hopefully find out more tomorrow night on the next webinar.

Or a direct lie. DOE is not the same as the VMPI group. VMPI group sends talking points to the other folks who aren't focused on it. In the video on changing diploma standards, it was explained that VMPI was adding new pathways, no discussion of eliminating tracking or that pathways are eliminated in lower grades, or how the classes would have more material added and existing subjects eliminated. They didn't need to know all this because the diploma standards was about adding an extra year of math to graduation requirements.

IT can be considered real if LCPS undoes the changes they made in response to the new pathways. Current 5th graders can be on an advanced track, but current 4th graders will not be, and will be in essential concepts 7 in 2023-2024, even though the assurance is that changes don't go into effect until 2025-2026.
Part of this is they are already implementing the changes to the 2023 SOLs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please answer this question then. Will kids be able to take Algebra in 7th and post-Calc in 12th? If so, what’s the difference between VPMI and what we have now?

As far as we know, there will no longer be post-calc options (unless you're taking summer school on your own.) Obviously, that could change, but right now everything we have seen indicates that VMPI precludes post-calc math in K-12 schools.

Not "everything":
The traditional high school pathway culminating in the study of Calculus or other advanced courses is not being eliminated.

As explained already, this is categorically false. Algebra- Geometry- Algebra 2- Precalculus is the traditional pathway, and this is eliminated.
Replaced by a pathway of Essential Concepts 7, Essential Concepts 8, Integrated Math 9, Integrated Math 10, plus an insufficient year 11.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please answer this question then. Will kids be able to take Algebra in 7th and post-Calc in 12th? If so, what’s the difference between VPMI and what we have now?

As far as we know, there will no longer be post-calc options (unless you're taking summer school on your own.) Obviously, that could change, but right now everything we have seen indicates that VMPI precludes post-calc math in K-12 schools.

Not "everything":
The traditional high school pathway culminating in the study of Calculus or other advanced courses is not being eliminated.

As explained already, this is categorically false. Algebra- Geometry- Algebra 2- Precalculus is the traditional pathway, and this is eliminated.
Replaced by a pathway of Essential Concepts 7, Essential Concepts 8, Integrated Math 9, Integrated Math 10, plus an insufficient year 11.

Speculation...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Please answer this question then. Will kids be able to take Algebra in 7th and post-Calc in 12th? If so, what’s the difference between VPMI and what we have now?

As far as we know, there will no longer be post-calc options (unless you're taking summer school on your own.) Obviously, that could change, but right now everything we have seen indicates that VMPI precludes post-calc math in K-12 schools.

Not "everything":
The traditional high school pathway culminating in the study of Calculus or other advanced courses is not being eliminated.

As explained already, this is categorically false. Algebra- Geometry- Algebra 2- Precalculus is the traditional pathway, and this is eliminated.
Replaced by a pathway of Essential Concepts 7, Essential Concepts 8, Integrated Math 9, Integrated Math 10, plus an insufficient year 11.

Speculation...

You have posted that algebra is eliminated under the new standards. The traditional pathway is eliminated.