Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
Yes they said that before they shrunk Woodward. Now nearly half of the seats there will be filled by WJ overflow alone.
Springbrook and Kennedy both are under capacity. Northwood is being expanded and will be under capacity. Those are the solutions to DCC crowding.
Wrong. Springbrook has nothing to do with this. Kennedy will be at capacity by the time Woodward opens. The Northwood seats will help some, but are not enough for all of the DCC overcrowding.
And Woodward won’t have enough seats for the arts program, WJ overflow, and students from new construction. They’re going to have to look elsewhere for DCC relief and the downcounty school with empty seats seems like an obvious place to start.
The "arts program" is a theoretical possibility, not a reality. Any new magnet program at Woodward should take a back seat to providing relief for the ovcrowded schools.
It should take a back seat, but MCPS has kept recommitting to it, even when they voted to make the school smaller.
They have committed to constructing performing arts spaces during Phase II. They have not committed to an arts magnet.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
Yes they said that before they shrunk Woodward. Now nearly half of the seats there will be filled by WJ overflow alone.
Springbrook and Kennedy both are under capacity. Northwood is being expanded and will be under capacity. Those are the solutions to DCC crowding.
Wrong. Springbrook has nothing to do with this. Kennedy will be at capacity by the time Woodward opens. The Northwood seats will help some, but are not enough for all of the DCC overcrowding.
And Woodward won’t have enough seats for the arts program, WJ overflow, and students from new construction. They’re going to have to look elsewhere for DCC relief and the downcounty school with empty seats seems like an obvious place to start.
The "arts program" is a theoretical possibility, not a reality. Any new magnet program at Woodward should take a back seat to providing relief for the ovcrowded schools.
It should take a back seat, but MCPS has kept recommitting to it, even when they voted to make the school smaller.
They have committed to constructing performing arts spaces during Phase II. They have not committed to an arts magnet.
However, an arts magnet isn't "instead of" providing relief for overcrowding. Where do folks think the student will come from? Mostly from the HS included in the boundary study. A magnet is just a way to have students voluntarily switch to Woodward from all over the area, including the DCC. I think a magnet actually helps with leveling school enrollment.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
Yes they said that before they shrunk Woodward. Now nearly half of the seats there will be filled by WJ overflow alone.
Springbrook and Kennedy both are under capacity. Northwood is being expanded and will be under capacity. Those are the solutions to DCC crowding.
Wrong. Springbrook has nothing to do with this. Kennedy will be at capacity by the time Woodward opens. The Northwood seats will help some, but are not enough for all of the DCC overcrowding.
And Woodward won’t have enough seats for the arts program, WJ overflow, and students from new construction. They’re going to have to look elsewhere for DCC relief and the downcounty school with empty seats seems like an obvious place to start.
The "arts program" is a theoretical possibility, not a reality. Any new magnet program at Woodward should take a back seat to providing relief for the ovcrowded schools.
It should take a back seat, but MCPS has kept recommitting to it, even when they voted to make the school smaller.
They have committed to constructing performing arts spaces during Phase II. They have not committed to an arts magnet.
not to mention Einstein already hosts the arts magnet
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
Yes they said that before they shrunk Woodward. Now nearly half of the seats there will be filled by WJ overflow alone.
Springbrook and Kennedy both are under capacity. Northwood is being expanded and will be under capacity. Those are the solutions to DCC crowding.
Wrong. Springbrook has nothing to do with this. Kennedy will be at capacity by the time Woodward opens. The Northwood seats will help some, but are not enough for all of the DCC overcrowding.
And Woodward won’t have enough seats for the arts program, WJ overflow, and students from new construction. They’re going to have to look elsewhere for DCC relief and the downcounty school with empty seats seems like an obvious place to start.
The "arts program" is a theoretical possibility, not a reality. Any new magnet program at Woodward should take a back seat to providing relief for the ovcrowded schools.
It should take a back seat, but MCPS has kept recommitting to it, even when they voted to make the school smaller.
They have committed to constructing performing arts spaces during Phase II. They have not committed to an arts magnet.
However, an arts magnet isn't "instead of" providing relief for overcrowding. Where do folks think the student will come from? Mostly from the HS included in the boundary study. A magnet is just a way to have students voluntarily switch to Woodward from all over the area, including the DCC. I think a magnet actually helps with leveling school enrollment.
That all depends on whether it would be a countywide magnet, a regional magnet, a consortial magnet, etc. It's all conjecture at this point.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
Yes they said that before they shrunk Woodward. Now nearly half of the seats there will be filled by WJ overflow alone.
Springbrook and Kennedy both are under capacity. Northwood is being expanded and will be under capacity. Those are the solutions to DCC crowding.
Wrong. Springbrook has nothing to do with this. Kennedy will be at capacity by the time Woodward opens. The Northwood seats will help some, but are not enough for all of the DCC overcrowding.
And Woodward won’t have enough seats for the arts program, WJ overflow, and students from new construction. They’re going to have to look elsewhere for DCC relief and the downcounty school with empty seats seems like an obvious place to start.
The "arts program" is a theoretical possibility, not a reality. Any new magnet program at Woodward should take a back seat to providing relief for the ovcrowded schools.
It should take a back seat, but MCPS has kept recommitting to it, even when they voted to make the school smaller.
They have committed to constructing performing arts spaces during Phase II. They have not committed to an arts magnet.
not to mention Einstein already hosts the arts magnet
Einstein' magnet is visual arts. The theory is that Woodward could have performing arts.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
Yes they said that before they shrunk Woodward. Now nearly half of the seats there will be filled by WJ overflow alone.
Springbrook and Kennedy both are under capacity. Northwood is being expanded and will be under capacity. Those are the solutions to DCC crowding.
Wrong. Springbrook has nothing to do with this. Kennedy will be at capacity by the time Woodward opens. The Northwood seats will help some, but are not enough for all of the DCC overcrowding.
And Woodward won’t have enough seats for the arts program, WJ overflow, and students from new construction. They’re going to have to look elsewhere for DCC relief and the downcounty school with empty seats seems like an obvious place to start.
The "arts program" is a theoretical possibility, not a reality. Any new magnet program at Woodward should take a back seat to providing relief for the ovcrowded schools.
It should take a back seat, but MCPS has kept recommitting to it, even when they voted to make the school smaller.
They have committed to constructing performing arts spaces during Phase II. They have not committed to an arts magnet.
not to mention Einstein already hosts the arts magnet
Einstein' magnet is visual arts. The theory is that Woodward could have performing arts.
+1 The visual arts program is portfolio based, but the performing arts program at Einstein takes all comers. What MCPS does not have, in the entire county, is an audition-based performing arts program.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
It has always been difficult for mcps to staff Einstein. Making it bigger would have made hiring harder.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
It has always been difficult for mcps to staff Einstein. Making it bigger would have made hiring harder.
Until the longtime principal left Einstein, it was one of the highest rated high schools for staff satisfaction in the county. When did it become difficult to staff? During Covid? All of MCPS has staffing issues now.
Anonymous wrote:So much of this is because of poor planning. Some of that is on MCPS, but most of that is on the county (M-NCPPC/Planning Board/County Council). It only takes one period of time where development-favorable policies are enacted -- increased density allowances, reprieve of impact taxes, exceptions to land set-asides for municipal needs (schools among them) -- and developers jump, with there really being no way to unwind it later. Throw in some short-sighted school closures that came with long-term, giveaway leases to favored special interests by the county executive/council. Then cook that up with 25 years of chronic council underfunding of capital projects ("Hey, let's just ask them to push these out a few years..."), and you get too many students and not enough school spaces.
This has happened in many areas of the county, but down-county, most especially Wheaton & below, was particularly affected because of the relative scarcity of undeveloped land combined with relatively high density. And when Blair got moved to its current outside-the-beltway location, it was during that facility closure period, so they weren't attending to back-filling to cover the deeper inside-the-beltway area. West of the tracks still had Whitman & BCC, and they got insulated (what a shock!).
Similarly shocking is that MCPS, when faced with the cost of provisioning a new HS closer to downtown SS/Takoma Park, elected to turn their efforts towards relief of WJ, instead -- the Woodward solution was less expensive and posed far fewer problems, despite the community complaints (that happens no matter the location/configuration -- can't please 'em all). They had to sell that with the nod to some kind of relief for DCC -- more crowded, in general, than anything to the west of the tracks, with more coming from demographics and the differential effects of the noted development-friendly policies; however, the nature of that might be just from the marginal pull of a Woodward magnet.
If that ends up being the case, and if more holistic boundary shifts are avoided, it will be because of the fine efforts of the W-area contingent, those here and elsewhere. Like it or not, the Federal government delegates school administration to the states (or, perhaps more Constitutionally precise, it is reserved to the states, despite any Federal funding/regulation), and MD delegates it to county-level districts, not town. MCPS, then, has the responsibility to provide reasonably equivalent educational services to all of its students (equal protection). Neighborhood schools, sensible boundaries and easily-accessible magnets are great ideas, but only if you're making sure to get your county decision-makers in line to pony up to provide that to everybody, not just ensure/preserve that for yourself.
There's no land in SS for a high school, and MoCo doesn't have the stomach to spend the tens of million to acquire (and still more to deal with all the lawsuits when they use adverse possession to assemble a property) when the Woodward property was already in the portfolio.
As to WJ - this year it's 650 students over capacity. That's more than half the entire DCC overage across all 5 high schools.
I don't begrudge them doing something to relieve WJ's overcrowding. That is clearly necessary. But they should have built the addition at Einstein regardless, which makes much more sense than having Woodward as a solution for the DCC. The new seats at Northwood and Kennedy aren't enough.
You can just bus the DCC kids all over the county. It's not like they're W students or anything.
I have never understood this "all over the county" rhetoric on DCUM, when it comes to the DCC. Wheaton HS is less than 2 miles from Kennedy HS. Northwood HS is less than a mile and a half from Blair HS. Northwood HS is 3 miles from Einstein HS. And Einstein HS is less than 4 miles from Woodward HS. I guess if it's not literally the absolutely closest high school, it's "all over the county"?
DP - I can't speak for the PP who referenced DCC kids being bussed all over the county, but I've heard that crack before. Typically it's said by W-school parents who deign to allow DCC kids bussed to their schools but refuse the same for their kids. So, DCC kids' time is less valuable or... something? Anyway, it's not about bussing within the DCC, it's to other schools outside the DCC, e.g., Woodward, which would be a schlep for kids in-bounds for Kennedy or Northwood.
Or even the further areas zoned for Einstein, some of which are 7+ miles from Woodward.
Is anybody saying, "Oh! Let's rezone DTSS for Woodward!"? I haven't heard it.
But that's just it--there really isn't any part of the DCC that makes sense to be rezoned to Woodward. Some of the closest DCC areas to Woodward are within the walk zones for Wheaton and/or Einstein, so they're not being rezoned. So you've got to look at areas that are already getting bus service to their base HS, and those areas also happen to be farther from Woodward.
Any talk of putting DCC kids at Woodward is just empty promises. They’re going to need Woodward for all the new housing around Pike and Rose and Grosvenor. Once you account for that housing and ease the crowding at WJ, Woodward will be out of space.
Another crystal ball heard from.
You don’t need a crystal ball. You just need to look at what’s already permitted and do the math on student generation. If you think you need a crystal ball you’re not very smart.
Yes but MCPS is pretty poor at this sort of thing. And I thought they intended for Woodward to also help relieve the overcrowding in the DCC? Einstein especially. I still think they will try to reshuffle sone students on the western boundaries of Wheaton and Einstein to Woodward. Obviously what they really need to do is build another high school down county, but they haven’t found a way to do that and they need to put the kids somewhere.
I live in Einstein cluster, and a big problem with relieving crowding at Einstein is that most of the neighborhoods that make sense to move to Woodward are in the Einstein walk zone. I thought it was curious that they bagged the Einstein addition years ago. I think Einstein boundaries may be left alone, and they will manage school enrollment through the lottery (very few out of boundary kids will get in--like Blair currently) and maybe moving VAC over to Woodward (if there is space for it there).
You could shift the inside/near-the-beltway Einstein parts to BCC (and maybe some Downtown SS Blair parts), BCC parts to Whitman, Whitman parts (if needed) to WJ and more WJ to Woodward.
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