Claiming a disability on the SAT/ACT - have people been gaming the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand that accommodations should be made, but I do have a question on how they are structured. How are accommodations, specifically extra time, accurately calibrated to a student's need? For example, if all the students without accommodations in a class have difficulty finishing an exam on time or with no time to review answers but the students with accommodations have no such problems does that mean the amount of extra time they were given is too much? What if 50% of the class finishes the exam and 50% does not? How much extra time should the student receive in that instance? What ends up being fair to the student needing extra time but unfair to the other students in the class?

It seems like a lot of posters on this thread could have benefited from accommodations themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is back to the idea that all kids can choose to take the test timed or untimed - then graded within each cohort.

Actually this is pretty smart. Give all kids the option of taking it timed or untimed but have a box that must be filled out. Either:
TIMED
UNTIMED
UNTIMED-DISABILITY ACCOMMODATION

You have to select one. (No HIPAA/IDEA violation bc you don’t have to disclose that you got a disability accommodation- you could just check UNTIMED.)

This way, kids who took the timed test would go to the top of the pack, and whiny parents who think Johnny should have more time because Larla with dyslexia got more time can have Johnny judged accordingly by all the top schools they thinks he deserves to go to.

There shouldn't be a top of the pack for timed. You could as easily say that anyone who chooses 'untimed' was more deliberate and a better student.

Sorry but if I’m a college admissions officer and I’m comparing a 1500 timed, a 1500 untimed due to disability accommodation, and an untimed for no reason, the timed kid is looking the best to me and Johnny-untimed-for-no-reason is looking the worst. Worse then a kid who got a timed 1400 even.

And this, plus apparently a complete lack of comprehension or ability to think critically, is why you're not an admissions officer. Do you even have a job?

I would think the same thing. Why are we wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that accommodations should be made, but I do have a question on how they are structured. How are accommodations, specifically extra time, accurately calibrated to a student's need? For example, if all the students without accommodations in a class have difficulty finishing an exam on time or with no time to review answers but the students with accommodations have no such problems does that mean the amount of extra time they were given is too much? What if 50% of the class finishes the exam and 50% does not? How much extra time should the student receive in that instance? What ends up being fair to the student needing extra time but unfair to the other students in the class?

That is what has been pointed out. The accommodations are not personalized. Even those w accommodations- some are benefiitting from too much time while others are given too little. Then u have the abuse by the wealthy in private schools. And then you have the poor/rural/clueless families. Just untimed it for everyone

Ok how about this...
You have the option of TIMED or UNTIMED. You have to say which one you chose. If your kid has a documented disability and has been approved for accommodations, your kid gets accommodations that do not have to be disclosed. This is more consistent with IDEA and would mitigate any potential bias that college admissions officers have towards LD kids. So LD kids would just check TIMED.

This way, all you parents who are bemoaning that your non-disabled kid didn’t get extra time- well now you can have extra time. And colleges will know it.

Why though? Is it important to know the material? Or know it fast? And if I can't recall it faster than Larla, does that mean I'm not smarter? Maybe that is a deficit I have, whether something undiagnosed or just something inherent in my ability? And why shouldn't that be accommodated?

If we are going to hold standardized tests up to cull the herd for college admissions, knowledge should be the key. Not "faster knowledge."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that accommodations should be made, but I do have a question on how they are structured. How are accommodations, specifically extra time, accurately calibrated to a student's need? For example, if all the students without accommodations in a class have difficulty finishing an exam on time or with no time to review answers but the students with accommodations have no such problems does that mean the amount of extra time they were given is too much? What if 50% of the class finishes the exam and 50% does not? How much extra time should the student receive in that instance? What ends up being fair to the student needing extra time but unfair to the other students in the class?

That is what has been pointed out. The accommodations are not personalized. Even those w accommodations- some are benefiitting from too much time while others are given too little. Then u have the abuse by the wealthy in private schools. And then you have the poor/rural/clueless families. Just untimed it for everyone

Accommodations are personalized to a certain extent. There is basically a range of options that the College Board chooses from.

For additional time on the SAT, for example, the alternatives at 1.5x; 2.0x and multi-day testing (taken solo with a proctor -- what Singer bribed a proctor to get)

For students who need keyboarding -- sometimes it is approved for all written sections (SAT writing or AP tests) or sometimes only for the long essays, not the FRQs.

Testing can be done in a room alone, or in a small group with other students (all must have the same amount of time to complete).

Breaks can be 1 per administration, 2 or 3, and it is specified when they can occur (between this section, but not that).

And so on.

Schools ask for the options that most mirror what the student gets in school, and the College Board decides whether to match it exactly or provide something else. They state that what a student needs for day to day classroom work is not necessarily what is required for their test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is back to the idea that all kids can choose to take the test timed or untimed - then graded within each cohort.

Actually this is pretty smart. Give all kids the option of taking it timed or untimed but have a box that must be filled out. Either:
TIMED
UNTIMED
UNTIMED-DISABILITY ACCOMMODATION

You have to select one. (No HIPAA/IDEA violation bc you don’t have to disclose that you got a disability accommodation- you could just check UNTIMED.)

This way, kids who took the timed test would go to the top of the pack, and whiny parents who think Johnny should have more time because Larla with dyslexia got more time can have Johnny judged accordingly by all the top schools they thinks he deserves to go to.

There shouldn't be a top of the pack for timed. You could as easily say that anyone who chooses 'untimed' was more deliberate and a better student.

Sorry but if I’m a college admissions officer and I’m comparing a 1500 timed, a 1500 untimed due to disability accommodation, and an untimed for no reason, the timed kid is looking the best to me and Johnny-untimed-for-no-reason is looking the worst. Worse then a kid who got a timed 1400 even.

And this, plus apparently a complete lack of comprehension or ability to think critically, is why you're not an admissions officer. Do you even have a job?

I would think the same thing. Why are we wrong?

Because you would compare the timed tests vs. timed tests and untimed tests vs. untimed tests. Changing the timing of the test changes the test- so you want to compare apples to apples. A kid who scores a 30 in a timed test may very well score a 33 in an untimed test, lets say. But both scores may land them in the same percentile overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that accommodations should be made, but I do have a question on how they are structured. How are accommodations, specifically extra time, accurately calibrated to a student's need? For example, if all the students without accommodations in a class have difficulty finishing an exam on time or with no time to review answers but the students with accommodations have no such problems does that mean the amount of extra time they were given is too much? What if 50% of the class finishes the exam and 50% does not? How much extra time should the student receive in that instance? What ends up being fair to the student needing extra time but unfair to the other students in the class?

That is what has been pointed out. The accommodations are not personalized. Even those w accommodations- some are benefiitting from too much time while others are given too little. Then u have the abuse by the wealthy in private schools. And then you have the poor/rural/clueless families. Just untimed it for everyone

Ok how about this...
You have the option of TIMED or UNTIMED. You have to say which one you chose. If your kid has a documented disability and has been approved for accommodations, your kid gets accommodations that do not have to be disclosed. This is more consistent with IDEA and would mitigate any potential bias that college admissions officers have towards LD kids. So LD kids would just check TIMED.

This way, all you parents who are bemoaning that your non-disabled kid didn’t get extra time- well now you can have extra time. And colleges will know it.

Why though? Is it important to know the material? Or know it fast? And if I can't recall it faster than Larla, does that mean I'm not smarter? Maybe that is a deficit I have, whether something undiagnosed or just something inherent in my ability? And why shouldn't that be accommodated?

If we are going to hold standardized tests up to cull the herd for college admissions, knowledge should be the key. Not "faster knowledge."

You may think the average or even bright kid has enough time to fully show what they know, but you’d be wrong. Every kid I know is rushing through the ACT to try to answer as many question right as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that accommodations should be made, but I do have a question on how they are structured. How are accommodations, specifically extra time, accurately calibrated to a student's need? For example, if all the students without accommodations in a class have difficulty finishing an exam on time or with no time to review answers but the students with accommodations have no such problems does that mean the amount of extra time they were given is too much? What if 50% of the class finishes the exam and 50% does not? How much extra time should the student receive in that instance? What ends up being fair to the student needing extra time but unfair to the other students in the class?

That is what has been pointed out. The accommodations are not personalized. Even those w accommodations- some are benefiitting from too much time while others are given too little. Then u have the abuse by the wealthy in private schools. And then you have the poor/rural/clueless families. Just untimed it for everyone

Accommodations are personalized to a certain extent. There is basically a range of options that the College Board chooses from.

For additional time on the SAT, for example, the alternatives at 1.5x; 2.0x and multi-day testing (taken solo with a proctor -- what Singer bribed a proctor to get)

For students who need keyboarding -- sometimes it is approved for all written sections (SAT writing or AP tests) or sometimes only for the long essays, not the FRQs.

Testing can be done in a room alone, or in a small group with other students (all must have the same amount of time to complete).

Breaks can be 1 per administration, 2 or 3, and it is specified when they can occur (between this section, but not that).

And so on.

Schools ask for the options that most mirror what the student gets in school, and the College Board decides whether to match it exactly or provide something else. They state that what a student needs for day to day classroom work is not necessarily what is required for their test.

I know of 2 diabetic kids who got double the time and snacks during the tests. What they should have gotten was breaks between to monitor their blood sugar levels. At end of the day, these are not personalized accommodations. Some kids w accommodations are getting too much time and some kids are getting too little. And why do parents have to spend money and jump through hoops to get these accommodations for a college test? Why for those who need it that their fates depend on a bureaucract who may be having a bad day? Just untime the tests.

[Anonymous]

The kid with IBS? What are the chances he has no poop issues while getting double time? Like pretty high.

[Anonymous]

Parents do not have to spend a dime for accommodations.

Public schools will test ANY student (public or private) for suspect disabilities (for free), or parents can seek a private evaluation and provide it to the school. In the event of diabetes, a doctor's letter and a 504 plan at school is sufficient.

The schools are the ones that have to jump through hoops. Only homeschooling parents are allowed to seek accommodations for school.

ACT and SAT do not accept requests directly from parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that accommodations should be made, but I do have a question on how they are structured. How are accommodations, specifically extra time, accurately calibrated to a student's need? For example, if all the students without accommodations in a class have difficulty finishing an exam on time or with no time to review answers but the students with accommodations have no such problems does that mean the amount of extra time they were given is too much? What if 50% of the class finishes the exam and 50% does not? How much extra time should the student receive in that instance? What ends up being fair to the student needing extra time but unfair to the other students in the class?

That is what has been pointed out. The accommodations are not personalized. Even those w accommodations- some are benefiitting from too much time while others are given too little. Then u have the abuse by the wealthy in private schools. And then you have the poor/rural/clueless families. Just untimed it for everyone

Accommodations are personalized to a certain extent. There is basically a range of options that the College Board chooses from.

For additional time on the SAT, for example, the alternatives at 1.5x; 2.0x and multi-day testing (taken solo with a proctor -- what Singer bribed a proctor to get)

For students who need keyboarding -- sometimes it is approved for all written sections (SAT writing or AP tests) or sometimes only for the long essays, not the FRQs.

Testing can be done in a room alone, or in a small group with other students (all must have the same amount of time to complete).

Breaks can be 1 per administration, 2 or 3, and it is specified when they can occur (between this section, but not that).

And so on.

Schools ask for the options that most mirror what the student gets in school, and the College Board decides whether to match it exactly or provide something else. They state that what a student needs for day to day classroom work is not necessarily what is required for their test.

I know of 2 diabetic kids who got double the time and snacks during the tests. What they should have gotten was breaks between to monitor their blood sugar levels. At end of the day, these are not personalized accommodations. Some kids w accommodations are getting too much time and some kids are getting too little. And why do parents have to spend money and jump through hoops to get these accommodations for a college test? Why for those who need it that their fates depend on a bureaucract who may be having a bad day? Just untime the tests.

Ohhhhhh my god listen to you complaining about the fact that DIABETIC kids got snacks and more time. Like YOU know what they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents do not have to spend a dime for accommodations.

Public schools will test ANY student (public or private) for suspect disabilities (for free), or parents can seek a private evaluation and provide it to the school. In the event of diabetes, a doctor's letter and a 504 plan at school is sufficient.

The schools are the ones that have to jump through hoops. Only homeschooling parents are allowed to seek accommodations for school.

ACT and SAT do not accept requests directly from parents.

Do you have a SN child? We do and it was a joke. Sure, they technically provide it but it really is school and child dependent. You make it sound so simple. We did a private evaluation (multiple over the years) and the school ignored them. They did their own and ignored their findings. The IEP and services had nothing to do with my child's needs and when we asked for specific things we were denied. It cost us a fortune in outside services (well worth it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents do not have to spend a dime for accommodations.

Public schools will test ANY student (public or private) for suspect disabilities (for free), or parents can seek a private evaluation and provide it to the school. In the event of diabetes, a doctor's letter and a 504 plan at school is sufficient.

The schools are the ones that have to jump through hoops. Only homeschooling parents are allowed to seek accommodations for school.

ACT and SAT do not accept requests directly from parents.

You make it sound like this can’t be game. But...wait...it can be. This isn’t debatable. Read the news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the posters who are pushing for extra time for all students:

My DC received a scribe and a reader in addition to 50% extra time. Do you think that all students should get a scribe and a reader too? Or is it just the extra time accommodation that you have qualms about?

FWIW, the 50% extra time is automatically given if a student receives a scribe/reader accommodation because it takes longer to take the test with a reader/scribe.

No, because I don’t believe a scribe would help your average student at all. I definitely believe extra time would help your average student. I think a lot of people on here agree with me.

But if they gave extra time to everyone, it wouldn't be "extra" time. It would be lengthening the test and, arguably, everyone's scores would still be roughly the same percentiles. The idea is that everyone has the same amount of time, so it's a level playing field. There are some kids for whom the field is not level because of disabilities, so they give them extra time to make it level.

The issue is that people think others' kids fake disabilities. If that's the case, maybe they need to be tougher on giving accommodations and require more than a neurppsych exam.

No, you are misunderstanding the accommodation. Because of the disability, the child cannot show what she knows when the test is taken under standard timed conditions. Adding time mitigates the effect of the disability on the child's ability to show what she knows and enables her to actually take the test. When there is no time limit to the test, like many tests given in the classroom, no accommodation is needed. So if the time limit were removed from the ACT/SAT, there would be no need for an accommodation because the child would not be limited in their ability to take the test under those circumstances.

By analogy, consider a different disability/accommodation: a chid with vision impairments perhaps needs a reader for the test. Well, if the exam were oral -- proctor read for everyone -- that student would not need an accommodation; but of course, a hearing impaired child would then need an accommodation instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents do not have to spend a dime for accommodations.

Public schools will test ANY student (public or private) for suspect disabilities (for free), or parents can seek a private evaluation and provide it to the school. In the event of diabetes, a doctor's letter and a 504 plan at school is sufficient.

The schools are the ones that have to jump through hoops. Only homeschooling parents are allowed to seek accommodations for school.

ACT and SAT do not accept requests directly from parents.

Do you have a SN child? We do and it was a joke. Sure, they technically provide it but it really is school and child dependent. You make it sound so simple. We did a private evaluation (multiple over the years) and the school ignored them. They did their own and ignored their findings. The IEP and services had nothing to do with my child's needs and when we asked for specific things we were denied. It cost us a fortune in outside services (well worth it).

Yes, I have a SN kid, now 17 and graduating from high school. Child was diagnosed at 18 months and we too paid thousands and thousands in private therapies over the years (and consequently have little saved for college).

The comment you made was that it shouldn't cost $$ to get SAT / ACT accommodations, not about fully remediating a disability. I'm sorry that your school disregarded your outside reports and know that going to due process is lengthy and involved. Public schools are legally required to provide an "appropriate" education, not the optimal or best education. I agree that sucks.

But you can utilize public services only for accommodations; many people do successfully, but of course not all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents do not have to spend a dime for accommodations.

Public schools will test ANY student (public or private) for suspect disabilities (for free), or parents can seek a private evaluation and provide it to the school. In the event of diabetes, a doctor's letter and a 504 plan at school is sufficient.

The schools are the ones that have to jump through hoops. Only homeschooling parents are allowed to seek accommodations for school.

ACT and SAT do not accept requests directly from parents.

You make it sound like this can’t be game. But...wait...it can be. This isn’t debatable. Read the news.

Never said it can't be gamed; clearly, it was with the help of PEOPLE WHO WERE BRIBED in the Singer scam or with the help of unscrupulous psychologists for others.

Was solely responding to a PP who said that parents 'shouldn't have to spend thousands' to get accommodations. My only point is that they do not; there are other ways. And as an aside, since 2017 (well after many of Singer's clients got admitted to colleges) both ACT and SAT changed their process and no longer allow parents to petition directly, and requiring schools to affirm that accommodations are used by the student every day.

Clearly, that doesn't close every loophole, but it helps a little.