Pray for Charlotte, NC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this is a thread about a (recorded on video, including by a civilian) police-involved shooting where a gun was recovered with the deceased's DNA, fingerprints, and blood on it. the only thing pointing to "police misconduct" is that the deceased's family says he didn't have a gun. is there any other evidence of "misconduct?"

for me, given the evidence we have seen, this doesn't seem to be a case of police misconduct. for that reason, this thread, IMO, isn't really the place for an "in-depth discussion about police misconduct."

i also think more discussion happens about crime in the black community because, according to statistics, it is a bigger problem (in terms of loss of life) than police.

I disagree. The title and of the thread the OP's original post indicate that this a thread about the city of Charlotte and the recent unrest surrounding an officer involved shooting which means that the attitudes of citizens about the police as well as cumulative instances of officer involved shootings are not only warranted but very relevant to the discussion. People aren't up in arms because of crime they're up in arms because from their experience and observations police are using the excuse of crime to justify unnecessary use of force and even murder. If you don't want to welcome insights about both sides of the story then you're not adding anything to the discussion but deflection.

[Anonymous]

I disagree. The title and of the thread the OP's original post indicate that this a thread about the city of Charlotte and the recent unrest surrounding an officer involved shooting which means that the attitudes of citizens about the police as well as cumulative instances of officer involved shootings are not only warranted but very relevant to the discussion. People aren't up in arms because of crime they're up in arms because from their experience and observations police are using the excuse of crime to justify unnecessary use of force and even murder. If you don't want to welcome insights about both sides of the story then you're not adding anything to the discussion but deflection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:more deflection from ANY sort of responsibility. PPs (including me) have said MULTIPLE times that the police have work to do to improve. yet you can't acknowledge that maybe not everything is the police's fault.

From what it looks like the most egregious attempts deflection come about whenever a point is made about police responsibility and police accountability. That subject is not open for discussion at all - it gets mentioned and immediately stats are throw out about black-on-black crime and immediate shifts of emphasis occur to avoid delving into that aspect of the problems between blue and black. People will gladly go on for 4/5 pages in these threads about blacks and their criminality and culpability but apparently no one is willing to engage in such in-depth discussion about police misconduct.

Yes, people have addressed police misconduct. In fact, if you search, the need for anti-bias training is out there. People have discussed human relations training, de-escalation, you name it. But no one mentions the costs involved in that either, eh? b/c it will be a big chunk of change

And then you can't expect miracles - b/c change takes time, generations, in fact.

But no one discusses the need for communities themselves to work together - to acknowledge their own issues, to work with the schools, to create wrap around services with social programs, to implement restorative practices in the schools so that "enemy faces enemy." We're all quick to blame the police, but slow to acknowledge that unless we focus on the mental and emotional health of people feeling oppressed we will get nowhere.

Whites can't come in and take on the Michelle Pfeiffer role. There is no white savior. People need to take back their own communities.

But why isn't that ever mentioned? Do you take back communities by destroying them? by setting fire to local businesses? by trampling on innocent people? by shouting out obscenities?

No, you focus on constructive measures. That isn't to say whites don't play a role. Whites need to recognize their own biases, too. But please keep in mind that it's not only race; it's also SES. Anyone with enough money to keep their families away from certain situations - white, black, Asian, Hispanic - are also to blame. Money talks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree. The title and of the thread the OP's original post indicate that this a thread about the city of Charlotte and the recent unrest surrounding an officer involved shooting which means that the attitudes of citizens about the police as well as cumulative instances of officer involved shootings are not only warranted but very relevant to the discussion. People aren't up in arms because of crime they're up in arms because from their experience and observations police are using the excuse of crime to justify unnecessary use of force and even murder. If you don't want to welcome insights about both sides of the story then you're not adding anything to the discussion but deflection.

so was the charlotte incident an unnecessary use or force and even murder? do we know yet? or did they begin protesting (and some rioting) about police misconduct before we knew whether or not it was? protesters were seen with signs that said "IT WAS A BOOK"..those protesters clearly felt this was a case of police misconduct. now we know there was no book recovered from the scene, and the evidence does not point to police misconduct.

[Anonymous]

As for the posters who repeatedly assert that though 90% of blacks are decent it is the 10% criminal element among blacks that warrants the police's fear/distrust resulting in the prevalence for the use of unnecessary force...uh, the same ratio can be applied to law enforcement.
90% of cops are decent, yes, but it is the 10% that have racial biases that lead them to predominantly target blacks or primarily use unnecessary deadly force on blacks that instigates the public's fear/distrust of cops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:more deflection from ANY sort of responsibility. PPs (including me) have said MULTIPLE times that the police have work to do to improve. yet you can't acknowledge that maybe not everything is the police's fault.

I have to agree. I am not arguing that blacks aren't jailed more often for minor offenses. There are stats proving that - and there's Clinton who legitimized the Super Predator image with the Crime Bill.

But that doesn't excuse illegal behavior. Just b/c Affluenza Andy gets off for smoking pot in his dad's Mercedes doesn't excuse the fact that a young black boy who got high was caught for the same illegal activity.

Of course, it still needs to be addressed so that law enforcement becomes cognizant of their own biases.

However, institutionalized racism, while it exists, should not be the "go to" excuse. If I'm not paying my bills on time b/c I can't get my calendar straight, do I blame the utility company? Or do I get my life organized instead?

Again, I'm not denying that this racism doesn't exist, but rioting by destroying honest businesses and by scaring innocent people in cars and by looting is NOT the answer.

OK, to be fair, I'm certain that there's a media bias, too, as these sources tend to highlight the extreme to make money. If that's the case, then recognize that it will be THAT MUCH MORE important to fight these images projected by the media. So the (throwing this out there) 10% doing the damage will therefore look like 90% on television.

And still, that 10% should not get an "excused note" for poor behavior.

1) I see people explaining rioting, but I don't see anyone including myself excusing it

2) get the F out of here with the black folks don't pay their water bill and they are blaming the man and institutionalized racism,that's some bullshit you made up in your own mind

3) it is the true height of arrogance for you to tell people who have dealt with a particular issue how in the hell they should address it
If I'm dealing with racism who are you to tell me that what I see feel and here is illegitimate, not valid and unreal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As for the posters who repeatedly assert that though 90% of blacks are decent it is the 10% criminal element among blacks that warrants the police's fear/distrust resulting in the prevalence for the use of unnecessary force...uh, the same ratio can be applied to law enforcement.
90% of cops are decent, yes, but it is the 10% that have racial biases that lead them to predominantly target blacks or primarily use unnecessary deadly force on blacks that instigates the public's fear/distrust of cops.

You really can't read, can you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. The hatred displayed by some of you who are bending over backwards to blame the police, and accuse them of planting evidence, is quite sad.

First, we have a man who defiantly pulls up in front of police and rolls a marihuana cigarette. Illegal, and stupid.
Second, the police are dealing with an ex-felon who was sent to prison for assault with a deadly weapon, and who appears to be holding a gun in his hand, and near a school.
Third, they yell at him to drop the gun, and he refuses to comply.
Fourth, they keep yelling to drop the gun, and he continues to defy police commands.
Fifth, they yell again to drop the weapon, and he still refuses.
Sixth, his wife is yelling "Keith, don't do it"! What was it that he was doing that had his wife so desperate for him to stop?

And yet, with all this, it's automatically the "racist" black cop's fault.

Yup. How is it "racist" when they're both the SAME race???

I hate stupid so much it makes my stomach hurt.
Yes you can be racist against your own racial group, ethnic group.
Oh my God what world, what schools did you people attend that you don't understand this????

eh

I posted the Atlantic article to show one side. I didn't add a response b/c I'm not sure how I feel.

ButiIf a black cop,in the heat of the moment - shoots at a black person brandishing a gun (loaded or not), is s/he thinking that the black buy with a gun is scum b/c of some institutionalized belief shaping his/her perception? Or is s/he shooting at the person just to protect him/herself?

I'm sure the police thought about his family during that moment. Maybe he has kids, a partner, parents, siblings.

I would imagine that self-preservation would probably cross your mind first during a moment like this - and not necessarily skin color.

But if skin color subconsciously plays a role, then we pay more taxes to create anti-bias training programs for police. Expect to pay more, however, b/c trainings - especially nationwide - don't come cheap. And let's not forget the monitoring, which is the data-collection. "Did the training make a difference?"

Yes, we need to address subconcious bias that might play into a police encounter with a black person (usually male). But to be fair, we need to acknowledgr WHY there is or may be that bias. I'm hearing a lot about systemic racism, but nothing about the fact that black people commit a disproprtionate amount of crime, and that, knowing that, a cop may feel more threatened when approaching a black guy. Blacks make up only 13% of the population but commit 52% of the murders. So while it's not PC to point it out, some of the subconcious racism is perpetrated by the high rate of crime in the black community, disproprtionate to their numbers.

So it's a two-way street. Police need better training on how to de-escalate a situation (which is NOT always possible), but blacks need to realize that the high crime rates within their own community are exacerbating the problem. Both sides need to take responsibility for their role in this situation.

Yea black folks just commit more crimes. I guess you never thought that an I just system nay punish black folks for stuff white folks get away with . Target predominately black communities.
Black athelete gets falsely accused of rape, goes to prison.
Brock Turner doez 2 min in county jail
Thousands of black men in jail for selling weed, but now white boys getting rich because it's now legal I. Numerous jurisdictions
Are there black criminals
Hell Yes!
Are there white criminals?
Hell Yes!
But somehow it's ok to paint black folks as being prone to criminality based off some bullshit stats based on a biased justice system.
It's just easier for you to believe we are to be feared than to think that maybe your mindset and complacency helps to support injustice.
Good Luck with that !

That's right. It's always the white man's fault.

Guess you just missed the part about black people committing crimes, easier to skip that huh?
go on believing that black folk are inherently criminal minds don't give a f*****
People of all races, with good conscience are standing up for equality and justice and your bullshiggety is dying a painful death.
GOOD RIDDANCE!

Nope....didn't miss it. You said, blacks commit crimes....whites commit crimes. What you missed, or are unwilling to acknowledge, is that blacks commit disproprtionately MORE crimes - more than half the murders. (Even Jessee. Jackson said that when someone is behind him on the street, he's relieved if it's a white guy.)And that has some role in the subconscious bias (assuming there is one) when a cop faces a black guy. But the fact that you fly into a defensive rage, blaming these proven statistics on "bias" and "BS," proves my point. I acknowledged the police need better training, but said that blacks need to acknowledge how they are contributing to the problem, too. Yet you can't even admit that. Until you realize that it is not always 100% someone else's fault (mostly prejudiced whites), things will not improve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:more deflection from ANY sort of responsibility. PPs (including me) have said MULTIPLE times that the police have work to do to improve. yet you can't acknowledge that maybe not everything is the police's fault.

I have to agree. I am not arguing that blacks aren't jailed more often for minor offenses. There are stats proving that - and there's Clinton who legitimized the Super Predator image with the Crime Bill.

But that doesn't excuse illegal behavior. Just b/c Affluenza Andy gets off for smoking pot in his dad's Mercedes doesn't excuse the fact that a young black boy who got high was caught for the same illegal activity.

Of course, it still needs to be addressed so that law enforcement becomes cognizant of their own biases.

However, institutionalized racism, while it exists, should not be the "go to" excuse. If I'm not paying my bills on time b/c I can't get my calendar straight, do I blame the utility company? Or do I get my life organized instead?

Again, I'm not denying that this racism doesn't exist, but rioting by destroying honest businesses and by scaring innocent people in cars and by looting is NOT the answer.

OK, to be fair, I'm certain that there's a media bias, too, as these sources tend to highlight the extreme to make money. If that's the case, then recognize that it will be THAT MUCH MORE important to fight these images projected by the media. So the (throwing this out there) 10% doing the damage will therefore look like 90% on television.

And still, that 10% should not get an "excused note" for poor behavior.

1) I see people explaining rioting, but I don't see anyone including myself excusing it

2) get the F out of here with the black folks don't pay their water bill and they are blaming the man and institutionalized racism,that's some bullshit you made up in your own mind

3) it is the true height of arrogance for you to tell people who have dealt with a particular issue how in the hell they should address it
If I'm dealing with racism who are you to tell me that what I see feel and here is illegitimate, not valid and unreal

So you think that fighting back constructively means destroying businesses and looting? or terrorizing innocent people? Again, I have no stats, but even if it's only 10% of the population activating dangerously, that 10% should be punished.

as SHOULD the 10% (or however big that stat is) of the cops who use excessive force

But you don't want to see both sides. You just filter things through your narrow lens.

not a constructive route toward progress - And that's why we'll never get past this division.

never

[Anonymous]

acting, not activating

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:more deflection from ANY sort of responsibility. PPs (including me) have said MULTIPLE times that the police have work to do to improve. yet you can't acknowledge that maybe not everything is the police's fault.

I have to agree. I am not arguing that blacks aren't jailed more often for minor offenses. There are stats proving that - and there's Clinton who legitimized the Super Predator image with the Crime Bill.

But that doesn't excuse illegal behavior. Just b/c Affluenza Andy gets off for smoking pot in his dad's Mercedes doesn't excuse the fact that a young black boy who got high was caught for the same illegal activity.

Of course, it still needs to be addressed so that law enforcement becomes cognizant of their own biases.

However, institutionalized racism, while it exists, should not be the "go to" excuse. If I'm not paying my bills on time b/c I can't get my calendar straight, do I blame the utility company? Or do I get my life organized instead?

Again, I'm not denying that this racism doesn't exist, but rioting by destroying honest businesses and by scaring innocent people in cars and by looting is NOT the answer.

OK, to be fair, I'm certain that there's a media bias, too, as these sources tend to highlight the extreme to make money. If that's the case, then recognize that it will be THAT MUCH MORE important to fight these images projected by the media. So the (throwing this out there) 10% doing the damage will therefore look like 90% on television.

And still, that 10% should not get an "excused note" for poor behavior.

1) I see people explaining rioting, but I don't see anyone including myself excusing it

2) get the F out of here with the black folks don't pay their water bill and they are blaming the man and institutionalized racism,that's some bullshit you made up in your own mind

3) it is the true height of arrogance for you to tell people who have dealt with a particular issue how in the hell they should address it
If I'm dealing with racism who are you to tell me that what I see feel and here is illegitimate, not valid and unreal

So you think that fighting back constructively means destroying businesses and looting? or terrorizing innocent people? Again, I have no stats, but even if it's only 10% of the population activating dangerously, that 10% should be punished.

as SHOULD the 10% (or however big that stat is) of the cops who use excessive force

But you don't want to see both sides. You just filter things through your narrow lens.

not a constructive route toward progress - And that's why we'll never get past this division.

never

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the posters who repeatedly assert that though 90% of blacks are decent it is the 10% criminal element among blacks that warrants the police's fear/distrust resulting in the prevalence for the use of unnecessary force...uh, the same ratio can be applied to law enforcement.
90% of cops are decent, yes, but it is the 10% that have racial biases that lead them to predominantly target blacks or primarily use unnecessary deadly force on blacks that instigates the public's fear/distrust of cops.

You really can't read, can you?

I can read quite well and I can see also. The citizens of Charlotte can see also and they just saw in March an incident caught on camera of officers beating a suspect which many found unnecessary but nothing happened to those officers.
http://www.fox5dc.com/news/national/103628973-story

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the posters who repeatedly assert that though 90% of blacks are decent it is the 10% criminal element among blacks that warrants the police's fear/distrust resulting in the prevalence for the use of unnecessary force...uh, the same ratio can be applied to law enforcement.
90% of cops are decent, yes, but it is the 10% that have racial biases that lead them to predominantly target blacks or primarily use unnecessary deadly force on blacks that instigates the public's fear/distrust of cops.

You really can't read, can you?

I can read quite well and I can see also. The citizens of Charlotte saw in September 2013 a former FAMU football player Jonathan Ferrell crashed his vehicle in a suburban area of Charlotte, North Carolina and went seeking help. After knocking on the door of a nearby house and the homeowner panicked and called the police. Charlotte-Mecklenberg officers said the 24-year-old advanced towards them when they arrived on the scene — that’s when one officer fired a stun gun and Officer Randall Kerrick followed up, unloaded his firearm and shot the unarmed young man 10 times. Ferrell was pronounced dead and Kerrick charged with voluntary manslaughter. In January 2014, a grand jury decided not to indict Kerrick, citing insufficient evidence to bring a case against the officer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:more deflection from ANY sort of responsibility. PPs (including me) have said MULTIPLE times that the police have work to do to improve. yet you can't acknowledge that maybe not everything is the police's fault.

I have to agree. I am not arguing that blacks aren't jailed more often for minor offenses. There are stats proving that - and there's Clinton who legitimized the Super Predator image with the Crime Bill.

But that doesn't excuse illegal behavior. Just b/c Affluenza Andy gets off for smoking pot in his dad's Mercedes doesn't excuse the fact that a young black boy who got high was caught for the same illegal activity.

Of course, it still needs to be addressed so that law enforcement becomes cognizant of their own biases.

However, institutionalized racism, while it exists, should not be the "go to" excuse. If I'm not paying my bills on time b/c I can't get my calendar straight, do I blame the utility company? Or do I get my life organized instead?

Again, I'm not denying that this racism doesn't exist, but rioting by destroying honest businesses and by scaring innocent people in cars and by looting is NOT the answer.

OK, to be fair, I'm certain that there's a media bias, too, as these sources tend to highlight the extreme to make money. If that's the case, then recognize that it will be THAT MUCH MORE important to fight these images projected by the media. So the (throwing this out there) 10% doing the damage will therefore look like 90% on television.

And still, that 10% should not get an "excused note" for poor behavior.

1) I see people explaining rioting, but I don't see anyone including myself excusing it

2) get the F out of here with the black folks don't pay their water bill and they are blaming the man and institutionalized racism,that's some bullshit you made up in your own mind

3) it is the true height of arrogance for you to tell people who have dealt with a particular issue how in the hell they should address it
If I'm dealing with racism who are you to tell me that what I see feel and here is illegitimate, not valid and unreal

So you think that fighting back constructively means destroying businesses and looting? or terrorizing innocent people? Again, I have no stats, but even if it's only 10% of the population activating dangerously, that 10% should be punished.

as SHOULD the 10% (or however big that stat is) of the cops who use excessive force

But you don't want to see both sides. You just filter things through your narrow lens.

not a constructive route toward progress - And that's why we'll never get past this division.

never

Didn't I say no one was excusing rioting did I not say that!!!!!

[Anonymous]

I can see quite well and I can see also as can blacks in communities all across the country who see themselves - their friends and neighbors and family - continually subjected to violence and brutality by police. But that isn't what pains me or what pains these citizens. What stings most of all is the apparent apathy toward them and their experiences by the law enforcement community. If they saw that adequate measures were being taken to prevent these acts, if they saw that proper training was being instilled and proactive protocols were being put in place to prevent these acts, if they saw that cops were being held accountable for these acts and if they saw that high ranking officials didn't stubbornly defend these officers, if they saw that their rights as citizens were in fact being served and protected by law enforcement and not ignored and rejected, and if they saw that their basic humanity was regarded then their anger and objections would not be so animate.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if any of the people ITT are equally as upset about the death of Dillon Taylor in Salt Lake City. An unarmed white man shot and killed by a hispanic officer who was cleared of all wrong doing.

Personally I feel Officer Cruz should have been cleared but this shooting does fall under all the same criteria that enrages people in the BLM movement.

There is bodycam footage out there (warning - it is extremely graphic). Taylor was asked to stop walking away, he kept walking away and touching his waistband and pockets. When he turned to come back towards the officers he reaches in his waistband and so Officer Cruz shot him twice in the chest.

After cuffing him and patting him down you can hear the frustration in Cruz's voice as he repeatedly asks "Come on man what were you reaching for!?" while administering first aid and calling for medical assistance.

Now while Taylor had no weapon in his waistband or pockets should Cruz have been a mind reader? Should he have only drawn his tazer taking a chance Taylor wouldn't pull out a gun? Should he have shot him in the knee again hoping Taylor didn't have a gun in his waistband? Seriously what was the de-escalation that should have happened?

If Taylor had stopped, put his hands up and allowed officers to approach him and check for weapons he would still be alive. Who was really at fault here?