VYS Soccer - better or worse?
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Anonymous
Now this VYS U9 team may indeed be special...but VYS has had a lot of "special" U9 boys team only to see them stagnate in their development and subsequently lose all their talent to other clubs that actually develop talent throughout the player's developmental years What really needs to be taken out is the youth soccer mafia of this area and the parents that are in bed with them. You have a bunch of coaches and directors from the lowest to the highest levels (including state and regional levels) that effectively bully parents into submission and parents that buy or annoy their way into becoming heavily influential. The rest of the parents are the paying customers and it completely reasonable to expect some value out of the money that they pay to these so-called "professionals". Let me break it down simply. -If you are a vindictive asshole that punishes young boys and girls by black-listing them because their parents have the audacity to demand a certain level of professionalism from you as a trainer, coach or director then you shouldn't be in youth soccer. If parents decide that another club is best for their sons or daughters, accept it and then do a better job the next season - don't blacklist Johnny or Susie at every club you have a mafia connection in. Thats how you keep players and families happy not by scaring them into silence. -If you are a lazy asshole with your high-level coaching license in charge of a high-level team that misses or cancels training, shows up to a training session late, hungover or unprepared without a lesson plan, you are stealing people's money and should be fired. Don't peacock around with your damn license. It doesn't mean shit. Work hard and give people their money's worth. -If you are the hypocritical asshole that goes out and recruits other club's players and then whines when your players leave for another club, then you should work a little harder and make sure that no one WANTS to leave your program and good players WANT to come and join. -If you are the arrogant asshole that thinks no matter what you do, people will still come to play for you or under your club, then you need to be ready for a wake-up call. More and more parents aren't going to deal with this crap any more. There are more and more alternatives to your bullshit clubs and camps. If you are a parent that has experienced any of these types of assholes, speak up! Posts the names of these assholes and specifics of what they say or do all over every message board you can find and let's get back to making the early years of youth soccer about THE KIDS again. If you are an asshole parent that is in bed with all of these assholes then your name should be plastered all over these boards as well. The biggest challenge will be cleansing youth soccer in this area of this vermin. Over 3/4 of the higher ups in youth soccer are one of these assholes. Speak up people and either the assholes will change or they will be replaced. And if you are a coach, trainer, director or parent that reads this and actually cares about your own level of professionalism, then take this as constructive feedback. The kids deserve better. |
Anonymous
Disagree. The club can set the tone for the program. Also, why wouldn't U9 travel kids get equal playing time at least for the fall season? They just started in travel! |
Anonymous
The point is that the poster's comments are not necessarily "problems" which are unique to only Vienna, but rather just the nature of youth soccer everywhere. |
Anonymous
If there is a mafia and you know their names, why don't you start by posting them? Who are the assholes? |
Anonymous
+100 |
Anonymous
Seriously, who is black-listing kids to other clubs, where is this happening? Are you implying that the "mafia" is Vienna and they are doing the blacklisting and the poaching? Who are the coaches showing up to games hungover and unprepared? Without proof and examples, it makes you look like you are the one who is the vindictive asshole. |
Anonymous
CHALLENGE ACCEPTED: Here's a note I just delivered to VYS. Coach Vanderhart – My daughter currently plays for the [REDACTED] team during the 2015-2016 season. She participated in VYS travel tryouts earlier this month. Just yesterday, we were informed that she had been invited to play with the [REDACTED] team for the 2016-2017 season. I want to take this opportunity to personally inform you of our decision. First, by way of background, the 2015-2016 season was our first-ever season playing travel soccer. We chose VYS over other local clubs because we read and believed in the VYS mission statement which is posted on the website: Philosophy The Philosophy of VYS Travel Program is to promote a player-centered approach allowing the ‘game to be the teacher’ where appropriate and encompass the principles of Long Term Player Development (LTPD). The program focuses on the following priorities: • Create a FUN, safe, challenging environment • Develop EVERY Player • Develop the team to play in an EXCITING playing style • Develop players to understand MULTIPLE positions for a holistic soccer development program that reflects the modern game Aims • To identify and support the development of every player • To provide quality coaching, education and welfare at all age groups and at all levels • To enhance player development, incorporating technical, tactical, physical and psychological/social • To identify, recruit and develop the most talented coaches • To implement a comprehensive coach mentoring program for the development of coaches Objectives • To develop players to reach their individual goals and ambitions • To support coaches to progress and develop • To ensure all VYS families have a positive experience as part of the Vienna Community http://www.vys.org/Travel/index_E.html To say that our experience with VYS travel this season was a disappointment would be a tremendous understatement. Over the course of the 2015-2016 season, VYS completely failed in every aspect of its stated mission with respect to the players on the [REDACTED] team. The players and parents on the team are extremely disappointed at the poor quality of the coaching delivered by VYS, the comprehensive lack of concern at player development by the VYS technical staff, and the complete disregard for whether VYS is living up to its own stated mission. Here’s a rundown of how VYS measures up to its mission statement: PHILOSOPHY The coaching environment installed by the VYS staff for this team completely failed to create a “FUN, safe challenging environment” for the players as individuals and the team as a whole. The team’s first VYS “professional” coach was condescending, demeaning, and nasty to the players. The VYS philosophy neglected development of individual players and of our entire team. The VYS philosophy as implemented on our team completely failed to develop an “EXCITING” style of play. To the contrary, VYS encouraged a plodding, predictable, and sloppy style of play that led to player dissatisfaction, a loss of skills, and a decreased interest in soccer. The players on our team consistently played the same positions the entire season. With the exception of the goalie position, every single player played basically the same position, all season long. Our daughter never played defense and was never encouraged or required to develop any defensive skills. There wasn’t even the slightest attempt to develop a “holistic” approach that "reflects the modern game.” AIMS As I will discuss in detail below, the VYS technical staff and our two coaches completely failed to support the development of every single player on our team, not just one or two individual players. The quality of our first coach was so far below acceptable, he was fired halfway through the season. But even that would never have happened if our team and the other VYS team he was coaching hadn’t also agitated and forced VYS to replace him. Our second coach is barely better. At this point, we don’t think the responsibility for these failures lies with the individual coach or coaches. Rather, it is now obvious to us that the VYS philosophy failed to provide quality coaching relationships; it provided little or no soccer education; it failed to impart technical or tactical skill; it failed to improve physical conditioning and rather than providing constructive psychological and social skills, VYS provided a coach who was demeaning, condescending, and nasty to players and parents alike. Further, when it became obvious to VYS technical staff that our team’s first coach was not working out, VYS appeared to ignore the problem rather than proactively address it. OBJECTIVES Our team’s goals were to improve over the course of the year, to develop a positive relationship with the coaching staff, and to have fun playing a beautiful game. Based on these three criteria, our experience this season with VYS was a failure on all counts. Instead of improving, our team got worse and worse as the season progressed. We had players leave the team in mid-season because the coaching environment was so bad. Several players will not return next season based on this season. In the Fall season we won three games. But, interestingly every game we won happened when our VYS “professional” coach was absent. In Spring season we haven’t won a single game. Not one. Lastly, my daughter – as a direct result of the terrible coaching experience she has endured this season – lacks the basic foundational soccer skills she needs to play on the [REDACTED] team in the Fall. Frankly, I’m not sure if you think offering my daughter a chance to play on the [REDACTED] team is an attempt to appease me by appealing to my vanity, (which is how I have seen VYS treat parents who complain about VYS) or if VYS really thinks she is ready to play at that level in the Fall. Honestly, the latter is an embarrassment to VYS and the former is an insult to me. I don’t care what level of team my daughter plays on, so long as she enjoys playing and has a good experience. It seems to me that offering unqualified players a spot on a top-level team indicates that VYS can’t field enough quality players to make a competitive team. Either way, it is as ridiculous as it is disappointing. Some people seem to think that VYS’ motivation in offering unqualified players spots on travel teams is largely influenced by the inflated travel fees they charge (compared to house) and that VYS doesn’t care about player development at all. I don’t have a comprehensive view of the VYS club as a whole, but our experience certainly fits with this impression. With the exception of friendships our daughter made on the team this year, our VYS Travel experience year has been a complete waste of time and money and effort. THE 2015-2016 SEASON WITH VYS As for the specifics of the 2015-2016 season with the [REDACTED] team, the details paint a more comprehensive picture of the failure on the part of VYS. As you know, when the season started the team was assigned to Coach [REDACTED]. From the very first day the team met Coach [REDACTED], it was glaringly obvious to every parent on the team that Coach [REDACTED] was an arrogant, condescending, and socially awkward individual who had NO BUSINESS coaching youth soccer. In fact, a cursory internet search shows that Coach [REDACTED] has a long and comprehensive, bi-coastal history of being fired from youth soccer teams, dating back two decades. Such a long history of repeated failures should have served as a warning to VYS. I can’t decide which is worse: that VYS didn’t know about [REDACTED]’s coaching record, or that VYS knew about his record and decided to take our money rather than address the issue with the parents up front, while they worked to a different coach in a transparent manner. Either way, Coach [REDACTED]’s tenure with VYS was the first step in a long series of VYS failures. Shortly after the first tournament and the first couple of practices, my daughter started telling us that she didn’t want to go to practice any longer. When we asked her why, she would only say that, “the way Coach [REDACTED] talks to us makes us feel stupid.” I started arriving early to practices and saw for myself that Coach [REDACTED] had a very strange way of interacting with players. Instead of encouraging players, he would criticize or humiliate them with deadpan sarcasm. What he was really doing was insulting players, but disguising it as “humor.” As much as I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, for him to address the girls this way was not helpful or constructive. It was aggressive and inappropriate. Other parents (with kids on other VYS teams) even noticed how strange and insulting Coach [REDACTED] was to players and bystanders as well. His behavior was repulsive to anyone who took notice. When I raised concerns about coach [REDACTED]’s condescending style and poor teaching skills with you in September, there was a short-lived effort to supervise him, but the team didn’t see any meaningful changes. I raised these same concerns to Coach George Hales in October and he agreed that Coach [REDACTED] was “not working out” but that there was "nothing he could do about it.” That may be accurate, but it’s also very revealing. It tells me that VYS knew very early in the season that Coach [REDACTED] was a problem and didn’t reach out to the team parents to explain what was happening or how they planned to deal with it. When I contacted you in late December to discuss removing our daughter from the team over our concerns with Coach [REDACTED]’s disturbing behavior and poor coaching demeanor, you directed me to talk to the assistant coach. Which I did. I like and respect the assistant coach a lot, both as a parent and a coach. He would have made an excellent replacement for Coach [REDACTED], by the way. Unfortunately, it was only after another player left during the mid-season break and I threatened to do the same that VYS finally appeared to start the process to replace Coach [REDACTED]. Maybe the timing is coincidence, I don’t know. But regardless of the motivation, VYS should have been much more transparent with the team about what was happening with the coaching issues. By the way, the player who left the team before the winter session went to play for a neighboring club specifically because they were so disappointed with the poor-quality coaching their daughter was receiving from Coach [REDACTED]. I spoke with these parents at length when contemplating whether to remove my daughter from the team. These parents felt so strongly about the bad experience at VYS that they forfeited their travel fee for half the year just to get their daughter away from the negative coaching environment VYS allowed to develop on this team. They may have been too polite to tell VYS that, but you and the VYS Board should know the truth. Sadly, by the time Coach [REDACTED] was finally fired, the damage to the team was done. However, the coaching failure is not limited to Coach [REDACTED] and his bad influence on the Fall and Winter sessions. During the winter Futsal sessions, when they weren’t being treated to Coach [REDACTED]’s demeaning coaching style, the team was subjected to a continuous rotation of coaches in the indoor training sessions. None of these coaches seemed to even know players names. The team practices were wildly varied. Some were fine, others were a waste of time. This is no way to deliver a consistently excellent coaching experience. How can VYS expect players to develop a relationship with one coach if they’re constantly changing coaches and no one even knows their names? Even after the Winter training sessions, VYS didn’t communicate with the parents to verify that the team environment was improving. It might have been nice to have a visit from someone in the VYS Technical hierarchy, if only to reassure parents that VYS was aware of their concerns. Once the club chose Coach [REDACTED] to replace Coach [REDACTED], I made a point to observe most of the practices to see if anything would change. While the new coach is friendlier and less condescending than his predecessor, I did not see any member of the VYS coaching staff take a sustained interest in helping the team recover from the Fall season and improve for the Spring. It appeared to me that VYS decided to ignore the team. I never saw a member of the VYS technical staff visit a game to evaluate the new coach. No one from VYS has ever asked the parents or players asked if the new coach was doing a good job as a coach, or if the team was progressing towards the VYS mission statement. In fact, since the new coach joined the team, the team has lost every game but one. In the Fall, the team had 3 wins, 13 losses and 1 tie. In the Spring, the team has 0 wins, 10 losses and 4 ties. (3 of the 4 ties happened after the previous coach was fired and BEFORE the new coach joined the team.) And, importantly, none of the losses this Spring have been “close games” either. They have been blowout losses. But our problem with VYS is not that the team is losing, it’s how they’re losing. They’re losing the same way they were losing in the Fall, only worse. The team is completely dispirited. They are lethargic. They don’t challenge for the ball, they don’t cover the opposing team on throw-ins or corner kicks. In fact, a majority of the time, the players aren’t even facing the ball or paying attention on set pieces. And the coach says NOTHING about it. Our team can’t complete more than one or two passes in a row without losing it to their opponent. Other teams don’t have to take the ball away from us, because our players simply can’t control passes from their own teammates. The team is being comprehensively out-played by every opponent on their schedule. They look lost on the field and appear overwhelmed by the game. To make matters worse, the Spring practice sessions are just as dull, repetitive, and uninspiring as the Fall. Neither our new coach, nor the VYS technical staff seem to care to work on new ideas or learn from the previous games. Instead, the team continues to practice the same small-field skills over and over – and they don’t even do those well. The practices consist of sloppy footwork, lack of ball control, weak or errant passes, no tactical advice or instruction, and very little, if any, constructive coaching. Further, our new coach appears to have no idea how to inspire his players. His idea of “inspiring” appears to be to tell them that they need to play “with more hunger.” While that may be an accurate diagnosis, it is his (and VYS’) job to help the players develop that hunger. You can’t tell kids to “be inspired.” You have to inspire them. If one thing doesn’t work, the coach has to try something else. If one thing doesn’t work, a good coach will continue to vary motivational techniques until something works. Finally, the girls on the team have seen a deterioration of their fundamental soccer skills because the coaching provided by VYS has been so lacking this last year. Many of the players had a good start with basic skills when the year started – but they’ve lost those skills over the course of the season. The girls on our team don’t exhibit basic trapping and passing skills. Yet, somehow, EVERY OTHER TEAM WE’VE PLAYED THIS YEAR HAS VERY GOOD SKILLS IN THIS AREA. Our team does not exhibit basic shooting or possession skills. Yet, somehow, EVERY OTHER TEAM WE’VE PLAYED THIS YEAR HAS VERY GOOD SKILLS IN THIS AREA. Our team does not exhibit a basic understanding of not "bunching up" around the ball. Yet, somehow, EVERY OTHER TEAM WE’VE PLAYED THIS YEAR HAS VERY GOOD SKILLS IN THIS AREA. Our team does not exhibit a basic understanding of how to utilize the whole field, instead of just one part of the middle of the field. Yet, somehow, EVERY OTHER TEAM WE’VE PLAYED THIS YEAR HAS VERY GOOD SKILLS IN THIS AREA. Our team does not exhibit a love for the game of soccer. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. Our players are tired of losing and they’re tired of getting out-played and they're tired of getting worse every week and they have no idea how to fix it. What’s worse, they don’t have any confidence that their coach knows how to help them improve. Frankly, I don’t think he even cares. Based on our experience, I don’t think VYS knows or cares either. Given this situation, it should not surprise you that many of the players on this team are exploring transfers to different teams for the Fall season precisely because their experience with the VYS “philosophy” and coaching staff has been SUCH A COMPREHENSIVE FAILURE. To us, and most other parents on this team, this is not a recipe for staying with VYS for the coming season. Even parents who have chosen to return have expressed serious misgivings. Given a convenient alternative, they would leave. The truly disappointing part is that every one of these girls is a competent athlete. This could have been a competitive team if they played for a club that cared to provide them with some decent coaching. Unfortunately, that never happened, nor does it appear to be likely to happen for the remainder of this season, or in the coming Fall. The overwhelming sense we have is that VYS does not care about its players or the parents. What is obvious, though is that VYS is happy to take money from the parents and to remain completely unaccountable to parents and players. It is also obvious that VYS is unwilling to solve problems in a creative, respectful, and transparent manner. I can’t speak for any other team in the VYS club, but I can tell you we are absolutely unwilling to pay VYS any money on the blind hope that we *might* not have a repeat of this year. Especially, not when VYS technical staff and administration has failed so comprehensively and appears to be so thoroughly resistant to doing anything to address these systematic failures. Our experience with VYS is that it is an “obedience-oriented” organization instead of a “customer-service-oriented" organization. For these reasons, we will not be returning to VYS for the 2016-2017 season and we have declined your invitation. Regards, |
Anonymous
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So for the record -- the coach(es) in question is/are not Coach Vanderhart, who's an assistant technical director. (And he's terrific.)
What you're describing is clearly unacceptable. How it reflects on the current and future VYS staff is hard to say. I find the following two statements incompatible: 1. Vienna has a ton of turnover! 2. Vienna blacklists people who leave! Most people on the board have been on it less than two years. The people in noteworthy positions, board or staff, have been in them a couple of months in some cases. So who, exactly, is being so vindictive? If your letter accurately reflects your experience, no one can blame you for leaving. And I'd hope it makes VYS consider an actual grievance policy. But to extrapolate some sort of conspiracy from that when all of the people involved have changed ... not sure that works. |
Anonymous
| Egad. I have a five year old in Vienna and was thinking about signing him up for VYS soccer for fun. But you *all* sound kinda crazy -- even if the little kids' experience is nothing like all this, why on earth would I get my kid involved in a program that holds out the prospect in a few years of being surrounded by waaaaaaay too intense and obsessed people like this? KIDS are playing SPORTS-- and you're swearing up a blue streak about it? At least now I know to avoid the whole operation, so thanks for that. |
Anonymous
So let me get this straight - you had a bad coach and VYS fired him mid-season? If so, I would applaud them for doing that. Most clubs in NoVa would dig in their heels and tell you to pound sand until the year is over. The fact that VYS acted quickly to solve the problem suggests a level of responsiveness that I have not witnessed at any of the other clubs we have played for. Kudos to them. |
Anonymous
| A long email to club officials containing ALLCAPS is the surest marker of "crazy parent" in all of youth sports. |
Anonymous
Don't judge an entire soccer club based on the crazy comments by a bunch of disgruntled parents....and EVERY CLUB has crazy obnoxious over-the-top self-important entitled disgruntled parents, at EVERY age even at 5 yr old REC (sadly)..... It's about the soccer. Keep it about the soccer. Don't get involved in the drama and the politics and don't take it personally every time the club or coach does something you don't like. Your kid isn't the next Messi, they just want to play soccer, so make it about that and avoid the crazies....WHEREVER you go. |
Anonymous
Agreed. I am interested to know how Coach Vanderhart responds. As for me, I think the parent should have taken "Travel Soccer 101" before starting the season (since this was their first year) and ending the year with a publicly posted long-winded one-sided email. Its very challenging for parents to keep a level-head where their kids and their money is concerned. |
Anonymous
I'm not the person claiming Vienna blacklists players. Never heard of that. I doubt local clubs would care what VYS says. I'm not the person swearing, either. FWTW. I only posted the note to Vanderhart after our really bad experience with VYS. Anyone with any interest can determine who the fired coach was, with some ease. He bounces from team to team in the local area, every year. He has a horrendous reputation. VYS has some teams that do very well. Others, like ours, are highly problematic. As far as I can tell, VYS does very little to create good teams or bad teams. They seem to happen...or not. When something goes right, VYS is happy to claim it. When things go wrong, VYS sticks its collective head in the sand and can't be bothered to help. That's a shame, because with a little bit of assistance or input from some of the good folks at VYS it could have been a good experience. If Vanderhart is one of the good folks, no one on our team would never know. He was a non-entity all year. And, if firing a coach mid-season is such a big deal, would it have killed someone at VYS to show some concern about it? Part of our issue was that VYS never told us who our coach was up front and once we got stuck with this jerk, they had our money and did NOTHING to remedy it. Yes, two teams combined to get him fired, but that's a poor way to run a youth soccer outfit that's supposed to be about, "creating a community experience." We would have taken a parent coach. Frankly, if VYS hadn't fired the first coach, several players would have left mid season and they wouldn't have had a team! That's the only reason VYS fired him. What this coach was doing was not some "preference" or the opinion of come biased insane parent who wants their kid to be the next pro player. This guy was an objectively dangerously, aggressive, anti-social jerk who has no business being around kids. And VYS hired him and tolerated his behavior and then let this team twist in the wind for a year. That's all. People entering the VYS travel system should know what they're getting in to. If they get lucky and get a good coach, that's nice. If they get unlucky, they're screwed and no one at VYS will so much as acknowledge they exist. |
Anonymous
So, this is just a common theme in life. You don't always get what you want or what you thought you paid for. It is just the way it is. It's not fair but....well, we all know the saying. We move on, as you did. Hopefully, it doesn't happen to you again, but the chances are, it will. Also, I want to point out, if a child truly loves a sport, they'll stay with it. 1 losing season and a bad coach should not kill a child's passion for a sport. If it does, is it really their passion? Coaches don't make players...players make players. |