Disappointment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
ECs:
- A few regional awards (STEM)
- 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
- Founder of non-profit
- Research w/ prof at T30
- Competitive summer program for BME
- Lots of community service

No sports, no arts, no music, no leadership.
What's most surprising to me is that there is no school activities. Nada, not even a school club member.
I don't believe this is ivy material, meritocracy or not, DEI or not, now or thirty years ago.

DD does have school activities, I didn't include them (probably should have) because she had much more out-of-school activities. She is a member of many honor societies + president of 2 STEM-related clubs. No sports though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
ECs:
- A few regional awards (STEM)
- 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
- Founder of non-profit
- Research w/ prof at T30
- Competitive summer program for BME
- Lots of community service

No sports, no arts, no music, no leadership.
What's most surprising to me is that there is no school activities. Nada, not even a school club member.
I don't believe this is ivy material, meritocracy or not, DEI or not, now or thirty years ago.

DD does have school activities, I didn't include them (probably should have) because she had much more out-of-school activities. She is a member of many honor societies + president of 2 STEM-related clubs. No sports though.

Also president of an honor society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else facing a lot of disappointment during this cycle? DD got into a couple target schools + most of her safeties... Rejected or WL from the rest. She was (imo and told to us by many others) a great applicant - High stats, great ECs + essays, LORs... Her interviews all went very well, especially JHU. She applied to JHU EA and the rest RD, and we're from NOVA. Intended major is BME (biomed engineering).

Stats:
4.0 UW/4.7 W GPA
1570 SAT (800 M, 770 R&W)
14 APs, all 5s

ECs:
- A few regional awards (STEM)
- 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
- Founder of non-profit
- Research w/ prof at T30
- Competitive summer program for BME
- Lots of community service

Results:
JHU EA - Deferred -> Rejected
Princeton - Rejected
Brown - Rejected
Dartmouth - Rejected
Columbia - Rejected
Duke - Rejected
UVA - WL
Cornell - WL
CMU - WL
UNC CH - WL
VT - Accepted
W&M - Accepted
Lehigh - Accepted
UPitt - Accepted

DD is incredibly upset and so are we... JHU was her dream school but she relied on UVA + CMU as well. Anyone here confused and facing a similar situation?We all were convinced that DD had it in the bag - Worst of all is that many of her classmates w/ lower stats and worse ECs have gotten into a few of these schools.

Your DD sounds amazing to me. So amazing that I can see why a lot of people on this forum thought you were a troll and these admission results are fake. You must be so proud of her. She will do great and have a great time no matter where she decides to go.

OP here, thank you! She has worked so hard these past 4 years, it really makes me upset that she feels she isn't good enough because of the decisions - It's hard to get her to stop comparing herself to her peers who made it into some of these schools.

It’s especially hard when you keep doing the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else facing a lot of disappointment during this cycle? DD got into a couple target schools + most of her safeties... Rejected or WL from the rest. She was (imo and told to us by many others) a great applicant - High stats, great ECs + essays, LORs... Her interviews all went very well, especially JHU. She applied to JHU EA and the rest RD, and we're from NOVA. Intended major is BME (biomed engineering).

Stats:
4.0 UW/4.7 W GPA
1570 SAT (800 M, 770 R&W)
14 APs, all 5s

ECs:
- A few regional awards (STEM)
- 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
- Founder of non-profit
- Research w/ prof at T30
- Competitive summer program for BME
- Lots of community service

Results:
JHU EA - Deferred -> Rejected
Princeton - Rejected
Brown - Rejected
Dartmouth - Rejected
Columbia - Rejected
Duke - Rejected
UVA - WL
Cornell - WL
CMU - WL
UNC CH - WL
VT - Accepted
W&M - Accepted
Lehigh - Accepted
UPitt - Accepted

DD is incredibly upset and so are we... JHU was her dream school but she relied on UVA + CMU as well. Anyone here confused and facing a similar situation?We all were convinced that DD had it in the bag - Worst of all is that many of her classmates w/ lower stats and worse ECs have gotten into a few of these schools.

Your DD sounds amazing to me. So amazing that I can see why a lot of people on this forum thought you were a troll and these admission results are fake. You must be so proud of her. She will do great and have a great time no matter where she decides to go.

OP here, thank you! She has worked so hard these past 4 years, it really makes me upset that she feels she isn't good enough because of the decisions - It's hard to get her to stop comparing herself to her peers who made it into some of these schools.

It’s especially hard when you keep doing the same thing.

How am I comparing her? By saying that I feel it's unfair that many of her peers who put less effort got into some of these schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I smell a 🧌

Do you think her profile is too "basic"? She says she regrets not picking more creative ECs, although I think her ECs were perfectly suited for her major + demonstrated her passion.

Yeah, I agree there is nothing that stands out in her ECs.

ECs:
not impressive: - A few regional awards (STEM)
Actually good: - 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
everyone has one: - Founder of non-profit
this year AOs don't like research for some reason: - Research w/ prof at T30
everyone has one: - Competitive summer program for BME
everyone has this: - Lots of community service

This year I heard Stanford retracted an acceptance because the applicant lied about volunteer hours.
Are those 200 volunteer hours @ local hospital registered with the school?

Yes, she made sure that everything was registered. I'm assuming the more "basic" ECs were the factor harming her application?

No, it's just a bizarre system that makes kids do these things. In other countries kids don't have to do these admissions acrobatics.

No, other countries instead track kids around age 11/12 (or earlier). You are tracked at this age, based on a one day test. Do well, you can be on tract for pre-med/stem/engineering. Do okay, and you can focus on humanities and social sciences (non stem), do worse, and you won't be tracked for much college at all. And without $$$$$$ it is damn near impossible to get off those tracks.
So yeah, I 1000% prefer what we have, where a kid can grow academically after 5th/6th grade and still decide to be an engineer or a doctor after age 12.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call me crazy, but personally, I think schools see kids with 15 APs (all 5s) and think "she'll graduate early so that's a year less of tuition." It's a business.

Hmm, this does make quite a bit of sense. I actually thought that all her APs would give her a boost, especially with her scores.

I can attest to that. Last year, one girl from our school got into Princeton who took AP Physics in 12th grade, and two boys were rejected who completed AP Physics C in 9th and 10th grade with 5s in both. The boys were more cracked in other subjects, too. So, what you're saying about having strong APs as a disadvantage is making sense.

DP: No, just that having a 1600/4.0UW/15+ APs does not make you any better than a 1520/3.9UW/8AP kid at most T25. They want to see more---they want a well rounded student, not a robot who can crank out AP Calc BC in 10th grade.

My kid is the only 10th grader taking Cal BC so it really depends on the school. If there are 20-60 kids taking it your kid isn't going to stand out as much.

Yes, but also know, that Calculus is a college level course. So just because your kid did first year of college calc in 10th grade along with 20+ other kids, it doesn't mean a school will pick them over a kid who did BC in their senior year. At a certain point, a HS kid is smart enough for the college, anything over is just that, but not required/expected to gain admission

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah, she wasn’t realistic about a lot of these colleges. I’m pp whose DC got into 8 schools a while back.

I agree with other posters. You have to do lots of research to get good outcomes. And I mean a lot of research. And then you have to be very realistic about the game and how you can win at it.

We were lucky because 1) my kid was not a 1500+ student; 2) the Ivies were never a consideration because of it, and 3) a few other “street smart” factors that we homed in on that narrowed our focus.

Colleges tell you who they are without necessarily telling you who they are if you are researching well and asking the right questions.

My last thought is that very few students should be applying to Ivies. It’s too hard to win at that game, and the penalty of losing other options early on is just not worth it unless you are really hooked.

I’m intrigued by this. Can you please share more? Maybe an example of two?

If you want good examples of how to approach elite admissions try these:

Applying sideways MIT blog: https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/applying_sideways/

The thoughts are pertinent to any highly rejective school and should be taken to heart as someone try's to determine if they are a 'fit' at a school.

And this GT blog about Institutional Priorities: https://sites.gatech.edu/admission-blog/2023/03/06/the-two-most-important-letters-in-college-admission/

both of these will provide needed perspective to the process.

Thank you to poster of the above 2 links. Print out and read and re-read.

From the MIT post:

Do well in school. Take tough classes. Interrogate your beliefs and presumptions. Pursue knowledge with dogged precision. Because it is better to be educated and intelligent than not.
Be nice. This cannot be overstated. Don’t be wanton or careless or cruel. Treat those around you with kindness. Help people. Contribute to your community.
Pursue your passion. Find what you love, and do it. Maybe it’s a sport. Maybe it’s an instrument. Maybe it’s research. Maybe it’s being a leader in your community. Math. Baking. Napping. Hopscotch. Whatever it is, spend time on it. Immerse yourself in it. Enjoy it.

This is my kid. Their sport averages about 20 hours per week and there isn't time for them to also cure cancer. I hope their passions shines through.

+1000

Let your kid do what they love! You are only young once. HS should not be just to check boxes for college applications---if it is, the universities can tell

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biomedical engineering probably makes it harder.

This. It's always the engineering majors who get the biggest shock at decision time.

Well yes, but it's not a surprise. If a school has a 30% regular admission rate, and the engineering is 14% and your kid wants engineering, well it's a REACH not a target.
Issue is most don't consider researching that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else facing a lot of disappointment during this cycle? DD got into a couple target schools + most of her safeties... Rejected or WL from the rest. She was (imo and told to us by many others) a great applicant - High stats, great ECs + essays, LORs... Her interviews all went very well, especially JHU. She applied to JHU EA and the rest RD, and we're from NOVA. Intended major is BME (biomed engineering).

Stats:
4.0 UW/4.7 W GPA
1570 SAT (800 M, 770 R&W)
14 APs, all 5s

ECs:
- A few regional awards (STEM)
- 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
- Founder of non-profit
- Research w/ prof at T30
- Competitive summer program for BME
- Lots of community service

Results:
JHU EA - Deferred -> Rejected
Princeton - Rejected
Brown - Rejected
Dartmouth - Rejected
Columbia - Rejected
Duke - Rejected
UVA - WL
Cornell - WL
CMU - WL
UNC CH - WL
VT - Accepted
W&M - Accepted
Lehigh - Accepted
UPitt - Accepted

DD is incredibly upset and so are we... JHU was her dream school but she relied on UVA + CMU as well. Anyone here confused and facing a similar situation?We all were convinced that DD had it in the bag - Worst of all is that many of her classmates w/ lower stats and worse ECs have gotten into a few of these schools.

Your DD sounds amazing to me. So amazing that I can see why a lot of people on this forum thought you were a troll and these admission results are fake. You must be so proud of her. She will do great and have a great time no matter where she decides to go.

OP here, thank you! She has worked so hard these past 4 years, it really makes me upset that she feels she isn't good enough because of the decisions - It's hard to get her to stop comparing herself to her peers who made it into some of these schools.

It’s especially hard when you keep doing the same thing.

How am I comparing her? By saying that I feel it's unfair that many of her peers who put less effort got into some of these schools?

You typically don't really know the full picture for all those peers, and if the level of effort put in. You also don't know their life experiences---whatever they may be might have been able to weave an amazing description of perseverance thru rough times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I smell a 🧌

Do you think her profile is too "basic"? She says she regrets not picking more creative ECs, although I think her ECs were perfectly suited for her major + demonstrated her passion.

Yeah, I agree there is nothing that stands out in her ECs.

ECs:
not impressive: - A few regional awards (STEM)
Actually good: - 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
everyone has one: - Founder of non-profit
this year AOs don't like research for some reason: - Research w/ prof at T30
everyone has one: - Competitive summer program for BME
everyone has this: - Lots of community service

This year I heard Stanford retracted an acceptance because the applicant lied about volunteer hours.
Are those 200 volunteer hours @ local hospital registered with the school?

Yes, she made sure that everything was registered. I'm assuming the more "basic" ECs were the factor harming her application?

No, it's just a bizarre system that makes kids do these things. In other countries kids don't have to do these admissions acrobatics.

No, other countries instead track kids around age 11/12 (or earlier). You are tracked at this age, based on a one day test. Do well, you can be on tract for pre-med/stem/engineering. Do okay, and you can focus on humanities and social sciences (non stem), do worse, and you won't be tracked for much college at all. And without $$$$$$ it is damn near impossible to get off those tracks.
So yeah, I 1000% prefer what we have, where a kid can grow academically after 5th/6th grade and still decide to be an engineer or a doctor after age 12.

Nah. You can pretty much tell where a kid should be by the end of 6th grade. Pretending that kids can “grow” after that is a waste of everyone’s time and of public resources.

[Anonymous]

Whether you think so or not, you’re making your kid feel worse. Please help her move on from this and embrace the schools that accepted her.

And please stop referring to the kids who did get into the schools on her list. It will only remind her that her (or your) scattershot approach to admissions did not work for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call me crazy, but personally, I think schools see kids with 15 APs (all 5s) and think "she'll graduate early so that's a year less of tuition." It's a business.

Hmm, this does make quite a bit of sense. I actually thought that all her APs would give her a boost, especially with her scores.

I can attest to that. Last year, one girl from our school got into Princeton who took AP Physics in 12th grade, and two boys were rejected who completed AP Physics C in 9th and 10th grade with 5s in both. The boys were more cracked in other subjects, too. So, what you're saying about having strong APs as a disadvantage is making sense.

“You’ve got to guess how many APs are enough to make you look strong but you can’t have too many” is a whole new level of stupid.

You aren't thinking about it correctly. Core courses Math, English, History, Science, Language. Plan on ALWAYS taking the highest level course available to you every semester, every year including senior year. That is the requirement for top schools period. MIT AOs freely tell you this. Beyond this it doesn't really matter, below this you are hurting your 'rigor'.

What this means is school dependent and AOs will determine if you met 'highest rigor' based on your schools profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call me crazy, but personally, I think schools see kids with 15 APs (all 5s) and think "she'll graduate early so that's a year less of tuition." It's a business.

Hmm, this does make quite a bit of sense. I actually thought that all her APs would give her a boost, especially with her scores.

I can attest to that. Last year, one girl from our school got into Princeton who took AP Physics in 12th grade, and two boys were rejected who completed AP Physics C in 9th and 10th grade with 5s in both. The boys were more cracked in other subjects, too. So, what you're saying about having strong APs as a disadvantage is making sense.

“You’ve got to guess how many APs are enough to make you look strong but you can’t have too many” is a whole new level of stupid.

You aren't thinking about it correctly. Core courses Math, English, History, Science, Language. Plan on ALWAYS taking the highest level course available to you every semester, every year including senior year. That is the requirement for top schools period. MIT AOs freely tell you this. Beyond this it doesn't really matter, below this you are hurting your 'rigor'.

What this means is school dependent and AOs will determine if you met 'highest rigor' based on your schools profile.

A lot of colleges say that they allow the HS counselors to determine rigor. Our HS counselors will tell you if your schedule counts as "highest rigor" or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I smell a 🧌

Do you think her profile is too "basic"? She says she regrets not picking more creative ECs, although I think her ECs were perfectly suited for her major + demonstrated her passion.

Yeah, I agree there is nothing that stands out in her ECs.

ECs:
not impressive: - A few regional awards (STEM)
Actually good: - 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
everyone has one: - Founder of non-profit
this year AOs don't like research for some reason: - Research w/ prof at T30
everyone has one: - Competitive summer program for BME
everyone has this: - Lots of community service

This year I heard Stanford retracted an acceptance because the applicant lied about volunteer hours.
Are those 200 volunteer hours @ local hospital registered with the school?

Yes, she made sure that everything was registered. I'm assuming the more "basic" ECs were the factor harming her application?

No, it's just a bizarre system that makes kids do these things. In other countries kids don't have to do these admissions acrobatics.

No, other countries instead track kids around age 11/12 (or earlier). You are tracked at this age, based on a one day test. Do well, you can be on tract for pre-med/stem/engineering. Do okay, and you can focus on humanities and social sciences (non stem), do worse, and you won't be tracked for much college at all. And without $$$$$$ it is damn near impossible to get off those tracks.
So yeah, I 1000% prefer what we have, where a kid can grow academically after 5th/6th grade and still decide to be an engineer or a doctor after age 12.

Nah. You can pretty much tell where a kid should be by the end of 6th grade. Pretending that kids can “grow” after that is a waste of everyone’s time and of public resources.

I don't think that's true. My sister almost didn't pass middle school and nearly flunked out of high school. My parents thought she was hopeless and suggested a GED and a job at McDonald's.

She ended up top of her graduate program at Yale and is doing great as an adult. She grew up a lot in college and stopped hating school when they stopped making her take math, science and PE. She probably has some hefty LDs, but is an amazing artist and author. She didn't even know she had a talent for art or writing until she was a senior in highschool. A lot can change when a person finds their niche.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Call me crazy, but personally, I think schools see kids with 15 APs (all 5s) and think "she'll graduate early so that's a year less of tuition." It's a business.

Hmm, this does make quite a bit of sense. I actually thought that all her APs would give her a boost, especially with her scores.

I can attest to that. Last year, one girl from our school got into Princeton who took AP Physics in 12th grade, and two boys were rejected who completed AP Physics C in 9th and 10th grade with 5s in both. The boys were more cracked in other subjects, too. So, what you're saying about having strong APs as a disadvantage is making sense.

“You’ve got to guess how many APs are enough to make you look strong but you can’t have too many” is a whole new level of stupid.

At some point you've proven that you're smart and know how to do well on an AP test.

But there is no way to know where that point is, and it probably varies from college to college. Therefore with this as with so many other aspects of the process, the student (a teenager!) is left guessing what the admissions committee wants. The whole thing is preposterous.

The point is well known.

If a student is always taking the highest level course available to them for their core areas every semester, every year including senior year they are doing what needs to be done for 'highest rigor'. That is the requirement for top schools.