Apologizing for older children

[Anonymous]

Do you hold your child responsible for apologizing for a rude comment? At what age? My 12 year old nephew let a real zinger fly during a Memorial Day dinner concerning the dinner our family cooked. His mother just laughed. I was pretty insulted, but not surprised. He doesn't have very strong social skills and he is a pretty awkward kid. Our kids are still pretty young, but we are clear about appropriate comments and language. FWIW his mother's manners leave a lot to be desired.

[Anonymous]

Uh...I hold my 4 year old accountable for her words. At 12, I think the kid is likely a lost cause and has clearly already learned from his mother that such behavior is fine and even laughable.

[Anonymous]

Of course! It takes a lot of repetitive work. I remember when DD was six, sitting at a Starbucks with her in mid-December handing her a napkin over and over and she had to practice saying "Wow, thank you!" or "Thank you, I love it!" in preparation for a Hanukah gift exchange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uh...I hold my 4 year old accountable for her words. At 12, I think the kid is likely a lost cause and has clearly already learned from his mother that such behavior is fine and even laughable.

Yeah I wouldn't put up with that from my 4 yr old, either.

[Anonymous]

This reminds me of my wife's niece (so technically mine too), who is currently 19 years old and starting her sophomore year of college in the fall.

When DW and I started dating, this child was 9 years old. She was consistently rude, said things she knew to be unacceptable, and at times was flat out mean. She has always been overweight, and her parents, who are incredibly smart, I believe overcompensated for her insecurities by allowing her to get away with this. And they always explained it away with "Oh, she's just a kid...." Then when it persisted, "Oh, she's just a teenager..." and then "Oh, she's in high school, she's dealing with a lot." But she never grew out of it.

Flash forward to the start of her freshman year of college, and we sent her a very elaborate (and expensive) care package. Never heard a single word of thanks: not a text, call, card, nothing. You bet your ass my mom would've had me doing a hand written thank you card for that.

So IMO it's not okay, but if his parents don't correct him, what can you do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This reminds me of my wife's niece (so technically mine too), who is currently 19 years old and starting her sophomore year of college in the fall.

When DW and I started dating, this child was 9 years old. She was consistently rude, said things she knew to be unacceptable, and at times was flat out mean. She has always been overweight, and her parents, who are incredibly smart, I believe overcompensated for her insecurities by allowing her to get away with this. And they always explained it away with "Oh, she's just a kid...." Then when it persisted, "Oh, she's just a teenager..." and then "Oh, she's in high school, she's dealing with a lot." But she never grew out of it.

Flash forward to the start of her freshman year of college, and we sent her a very elaborate (and expensive) care package. Never heard a single word of thanks: not a text, call, card, nothing. You bet your ass my mom would've had me doing a hand written thank you card for that.

So IMO it's not okay, but if his parents don't correct him, what can you do?

In some ways, I was that kid myself, though I was never rude or mean. But I had NO idea about thanking people. Seriously, I was raised by wolves. I am so, so, so embarrassed that I never sent thank you notes to all of the people who sent me gifts. It took an aunt of mine to finally say, "You know, ***, there's no way that we can know that you appreciate that we went out of our way to send you a gift if you don't write us a thank you note afterward. It makes us not want to send gifts anymore." I was SO mortified. But SO grateful, too. It's seriously not something that my parents ever taught me, and I'm so grateful to my aunt for stepping in to help to civilize me.

I mention that to say -- she's an adult now. And you know she was basically raised by wolves. Assuming you love her and don't hold her 100% responsible for her parents' failures, I'd give her another shot. If you're in email communication, maybe shoot her an email with a subject like, "Care package?" And then say something like, "Hey, Brittany, we just wanted to reach out to see if you received the care package we sent. We didn't hear anything from you so we are concerned that perhaps it was not delivered." And if she writes back saying, "Yes, it was great!" or something like that, you have an opening. She may honestly have decent intentions but no clue at all.

[Anonymous]

I think a kid of 12 may make a comment without thinking or without realizing until afterward how loaded or aggressive the comment sounded when it came out. The mother, on the other hand, should have immediately said something -- "Larlo, that was too strong -- Larlo, that wasn't appropriate -- Larlo, you need to apologize to Aunt Larlita." This was a parenting fail much more than a 12 year old fail. I see this with my adolescent niece/nephews. Their behavior a lot of times is adolescent sulking, which is pretty typical of their age but their parents should be getting them to step up.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't call any of my kids out in public for a rude or inappropriate comment. Kids sometimes do and say stupid things and need to be taught better. I would discuss it privately and then help my kid figure out how to apologize. Calling them out in public doesn't get you a sincere apology and you just embarrass them unnecessarily.

[Anonymous]

At 12, they are too old to call out in public because it just causes them to withdraw. You wouldn't want them to call you out on something in public, so you show the same respect. At 4, it's a different story.

At this age, you pull them aside privately or have a conversation with them about appropriate and inappropriate things to say around others and reminders to always think before speaking. It has to be more of a dialogue. They need to internalize the reason they are apologizing, not just apologizing on the spot because Mommy said so.

The mother was probably embarrassed herself on the inside (I know I have been many a times), but at some point in parenting you take on those embarrassments in public rather than embarrass your child and lose their trust and confidence in you.

If I get eye rolls or nasty remarks from others for my misperceived lack of parenting, I try to let it roll of my back.

OP- try not to judge the parent. You don't know what parenting goes on in private and some kids can be particularly difficult no matter how much the parent demands manners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't call any of my kids out in public for a rude or inappropriate comment. Kids sometimes do and say stupid things and need to be taught better. I would discuss it privately and then help my kid figure out how to apologize. Calling them out in public doesn't get you a sincere apology and you just embarrass them unnecessarily.

Agree.
Plus you can't really do anything to other child to teach him manners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At 12, they are too old to call out in public because it just causes them to withdraw. You wouldn't want them to call you out on something in public, so you show the same respect. At 4, it's a different story.

At this age, you pull them aside privately or have a conversation with them about appropriate and inappropriate things to say around others and reminders to always think before speaking. It has to be more of a dialogue. They need to internalize the reason they are apologizing, not just apologizing on the spot because Mommy said so.

The mother was probably embarrassed herself on the inside (I know I have been many a times), but at some point in parenting you take on those embarrassments in public rather than embarrass your child and lose their trust and confidence in you.

If I get eye rolls or nasty remarks from others for my misperceived lack of parenting, I try to let it roll of my back.

OP- try not to judge the parent. You don't know what parenting goes on in private and some kids can be particularly difficult no matter how much the parent demands manners.

While I agree that the parent and child should be respectful of each other, I would want my child to let me know. We've always had the understanding that if someone is missing information, you provide it immediately (ie. Susie Q is talking to your Larla about a sleepover next weekend, I have no problem butting in and reminding her that her sister has a play performance, your Larla can either go home before the play or come along), and if someone does something inappropriate, everyone in the family turns and looks at them, correcting verbally if the person doesn't immediately backtrack and apologize (my grandmother said something about a "Little Black Sambo," the kids were horrified, especially when she didn't see an issue with it; she wanted me to tell the kids not correct her, and she didn't want to listen to me explain that I don't buy into adults being infallible simply due to age).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't call any of my kids out in public for a rude or inappropriate comment. Kids sometimes do and say stupid things and need to be taught better. I would discuss it privately and then help my kid figure out how to apologize. Calling them out in public doesn't get you a sincere apology and you just embarrass them unnecessarily.

Agree.
Plus you can't really do anything to other child to teach him manners.

I disagree. I do call them out publicly for saying something mean or inappropriate, as long as I KNOW that they knew better. If they're embarrassed, they're pretty likely to remember not to do that again.

[Anonymous]

Something happened on Saturday, and "inappropriate comment". On Monday somebody was talking about what happened on Saturday.

My son said, "What is up with adults, the comment was made, it is over. Why do adults have to discuss something over and over again. Why can't you let it go?"

I like his viewpoint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At 12, they are too old to call out in public because it just causes them to withdraw. You wouldn't want them to call you out on something in public, so you show the same respect. At 4, it's a different story.

At this age, you pull them aside privately or have a conversation with them about appropriate and inappropriate things to say around others and reminders to always think before speaking. It has to be more of a dialogue. They need to internalize the reason they are apologizing, not just apologizing on the spot because Mommy said so.

The mother was probably embarrassed herself on the inside (I know I have been many a times), but at some point in parenting you take on those embarrassments in public rather than embarrass your child and lose their trust and confidence in you.

If I get eye rolls or nasty remarks from others for my misperceived lack of parenting, I try to let it roll of my back.

OP- try not to judge the parent. You don't know what parenting goes on in private and some kids can be particularly difficult no matter how much the parent demands manners.

While I agree that the parent and child should be respectful of each other, I would want my child to let me know. We've always had the understanding that if someone is missing information, you provide it immediately (ie. Susie Q is talking to your Larla about a sleepover next weekend, I have no problem butting in and reminding her that her sister has a play performance, your Larla can either go home before the play or come along), and if someone does something inappropriate, everyone in the family turns and looks at them, correcting verbally if the person doesn't immediately backtrack and apologize (my grandmother said something about a "Little Black Sambo," the kids were horrified, especially when she didn't see an issue with it; she wanted me to tell the kids not correct her, and she didn't want to listen to me explain that I don't buy into adults being infallible simply due to age).

Of course the child should let you know and you should do the same. You just do it privately. Reminding someone of an appointment in front of everyone is one thing, publicly shaming your family member is another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At 12, they are too old to call out in public because it just causes them to withdraw. You wouldn't want them to call you out on something in public, so you show the same respect. At 4, it's a different story.

At this age, you pull them aside privately or have a conversation with them about appropriate and inappropriate things to say around others and reminders to always think before speaking. It has to be more of a dialogue. They need to internalize the reason they are apologizing, not just apologizing on the spot because Mommy said so.

The mother was probably embarrassed herself on the inside (I know I have been many a times), but at some point in parenting you take on those embarrassments in public rather than embarrass your child and lose their trust and confidence in you.

If I get eye rolls or nasty remarks from others for my misperceived lack of parenting, I try to let it roll of my back.

OP- try not to judge the parent. You don't know what parenting goes on in private and some kids can be particularly difficult no matter how much the parent demands manners.

While I agree that the parent and child should be respectful of each other, I would want my child to let me know. We've always had the understanding that if someone is missing information, you provide it immediately (ie. Susie Q is talking to your Larla about a sleepover next weekend, I have no problem butting in and reminding her that her sister has a play performance, your Larla can either go home before the play or come along), and if someone does something inappropriate, everyone in the family turns and looks at them, correcting verbally if the person doesn't immediately backtrack and apologize (my grandmother said something about a "Little Black Sambo," the kids were horrified, especially when she didn't see an issue with it; she wanted me to tell the kids not correct her, and she didn't want to listen to me explain that I don't buy into adults being infallible simply due to age).

Of course the child should let you know and you should do the same. You just do it privately. Reminding someone of an appointment in front of everyone is one thing, publicly shaming your family member is another.

Actually, we've found that we don't have many issues (in public) because we handle it the way we do. There's nothing like a 4 year old staring at an 8 year old who's starting to say or do something... The 8 year old turns around to look at the adults who are looking at her the same way, it's done. Usually nothing is ever said, the person corrects the issue immediately. And the few times that I've said something the kids thought was inappropriate? Not a problem with me that they gave me the look, I prefer that they think through what is and isn't appropriate, irrelevant of the age of the person.