New Pew Religion survey - America's changing landscape

[Anonymous]

I link up Pew religion surveys up here every six months or so.

This one just came out:

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/

Key Takeway - jesus falling, unaffiliated raising.

or should I say - 'nothing' is risen

[Anonymous]

As for the increase in non-Christian faiths, I would be interested to see a breakdown between immigrants, and people raised in a particular religion, vs identification as an adult.

I have no doubt that there is an increase in American-born/raised Muslims, who have left the faith as an adult (especially on some level of "moderately practicing"). Muslims are increasing in the US, primarily due to immigration and conversion.

I'm DCUM's resident raised Muslim, adult atheist - but have no doubt that there are TONS more like myself. Many also just wouldn't admit it publicly, due to the greater community stigma that's less so in American Christian and Jewish communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As for the increase in non-Christian faiths, I would be interested to see a breakdown between immigrants, and people raised in a particular religion, vs identification as an adult.

I have no doubt that there is an increase in American-born/raised Muslims, who have left the faith as an adult (especially on some level of "moderately practicing"). Muslims are increasing in the US, primarily due to immigration and conversion.

I'm DCUM's resident raised Muslim, adult atheist - but have no doubt that there are TONS more like myself. Many also just wouldn't admit it publicly, due to the greater community stigma that's less so in American Christian and Jewish communities.

That stigma won't change unless people like you, as a group, publically wear it proudly on your sleeves.

And by keeping quiet, it does the muslim community in the US a disservice because the crazies are the ones that get all the publicity.

In fact, I would suggest that muslim-athiests in the US should hold a 'draw mohammed' contest to show how they are standing up to the community

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As for the increase in non-Christian faiths, I would be interested to see a breakdown between immigrants, and people raised in a particular religion, vs identification as an adult.

I have no doubt that there is an increase in American-born/raised Muslims, who have left the faith as an adult (especially on some level of "moderately practicing"). Muslims are increasing in the US, primarily due to immigration and conversion.

I'm DCUM's resident raised Muslim, adult atheist - but have no doubt that there are TONS more like myself. Many also just wouldn't admit it publicly, due to the greater community stigma that's less so in American Christian and Jewish communities.

I suspect you are right. I also suspect the steep rise in "nones" is in part due to people being more willing to identify themselves that way. That is, their beliefs haven't changed since 2007, but they are more likely now to identify as "nothing in particular" instead of reflexively identifying with a faith they haven't practiced for a long time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the increase in non-Christian faiths, I would be interested to see a breakdown between immigrants, and people raised in a particular religion, vs identification as an adult.

I have no doubt that there is an increase in American-born/raised Muslims, who have left the faith as an adult (especially on some level of "moderately practicing"). Muslims are increasing in the US, primarily due to immigration and conversion.

I'm DCUM's resident raised Muslim, adult atheist - but have no doubt that there are TONS more like myself. Many also just wouldn't admit it publicly, due to the greater community stigma that's less so in American Christian and Jewish communities.

I suspect you are right. I also suspect the steep rise in "nones" is in part due to people being more willing to identify themselves that way. That is, their beliefs haven't changed since 2007, but they are more likely now to identify as "nothing in particular" instead of reflexively identifying with a faith they haven't practiced for a long time.

Good point. I don't feel much has changed, people are identifying differently is all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the increase in non-Christian faiths, I would be interested to see a breakdown between immigrants, and people raised in a particular religion, vs identification as an adult.

I have no doubt that there is an increase in American-born/raised Muslims, who have left the faith as an adult (especially on some level of "moderately practicing"). Muslims are increasing in the US, primarily due to immigration and conversion.

I'm DCUM's resident raised Muslim, adult atheist - but have no doubt that there are TONS more like myself. Many also just wouldn't admit it publicly, due to the greater community stigma that's less so in American Christian and Jewish communities.

I suspect you are right. I also suspect the steep rise in "nones" is in part due to people being more willing to identify themselves that way. That is, their beliefs haven't changed since 2007, but they are more likely now to identify as "nothing in particular" instead of reflexively identifying with a faith they haven't practiced for a long time.

Good point. I don't feel much has changed, people are identifying differently is all.

pp here, actually I think a lot has changed -- I think that the next iteration of this poll will show that more people have left their faith and joined the nones, as people gain more information outside church about religion and as the stigma of not having a religion decreases -- and more good, ordinary people who are not religious speak openly about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the increase in non-Christian faiths, I would be interested to see a breakdown between immigrants, and people raised in a particular religion, vs identification as an adult.

I have no doubt that there is an increase in American-born/raised Muslims, who have left the faith as an adult (especially on some level of "moderately practicing"). Muslims are increasing in the US, primarily due to immigration and conversion.

I'm DCUM's resident raised Muslim, adult atheist - but have no doubt that there are TONS more like myself. Many also just wouldn't admit it publicly, due to the greater community stigma that's less so in American Christian and Jewish communities.

I suspect you are right. I also suspect the steep rise in "nones" is in part due to people being more willing to identify themselves that way. That is, their beliefs haven't changed since 2007, but they are more likely now to identify as "nothing in particular" instead of reflexively identifying with a faith they haven't practiced for a long time.

Good point. I don't feel much has changed, people are identifying differently is all.

pp here, actually I think a lot has changed -- I think that the next iteration of this poll will show that more people have left their faith and joined the nones, as people gain more information outside church about religion and as the stigma of not having a religion decreases -- and more good, ordinary people who are not religious speak openly about it.

Whereas I think people have been "nones" for years and are only now becoming more comfortable connecting that to their religious inactivity.

[Anonymous]

^It's interesting to think about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the increase in non-Christian faiths, I would be interested to see a breakdown between immigrants, and people raised in a particular religion, vs identification as an adult.

I have no doubt that there is an increase in American-born/raised Muslims, who have left the faith as an adult (especially on some level of "moderately practicing"). Muslims are increasing in the US, primarily due to immigration and conversion.

I'm DCUM's resident raised Muslim, adult atheist - but have no doubt that there are TONS more like myself. Many also just wouldn't admit it publicly, due to the greater community stigma that's less so in American Christian and Jewish communities.

That stigma won't change unless people like you, as a group, publically wear it proudly on your sleeves.

And by keeping quiet, it does the muslim community in the US a disservice because the crazies are the ones that get all the publicity.

In fact, I would suggest that muslim-athiests in the US should hold a 'draw mohammed' contest to show how they are standing up to the community

Standing up =/= deliberately offending people. Please. This is what's wrong with many atheists: you think the only way to create space for atheism is to insult everybody else.

Agree with the idea that PP could--if she wants to--broadcast her atheism more widely in order to help make a space for ex-Muslims to come out comfortably as atheists. But you're going over the edge into strident looneydom (guessing you're the OP of the "when is Jesus coming back?" thread and so many other hate-filled posts). I'll do bullets, because I've noticed you never read anything longer than a few sentences.

- First, you're trying to impose this on PP as a duty, yet this isn't her burden unless she wants to assume it.
- Second, the idea that you need to offend (so different from "standing up") your ex-coreligionists is just dumb, ridiculous and pretty darn illogical, given there's a ton of research showing that people who are backed into a corner just double down on their original beliefs.
- Third, strident haters are quickly written off by anybody, religious or not religious, with a sense of perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the increase in non-Christian faiths, I would be interested to see a breakdown between immigrants, and people raised in a particular religion, vs identification as an adult.

I have no doubt that there is an increase in American-born/raised Muslims, who have left the faith as an adult (especially on some level of "moderately practicing"). Muslims are increasing in the US, primarily due to immigration and conversion.

I'm DCUM's resident raised Muslim, adult atheist - but have no doubt that there are TONS more like myself. Many also just wouldn't admit it publicly, due to the greater community stigma that's less so in American Christian and Jewish communities.

That stigma won't change unless people like you, as a group, publically wear it proudly on your sleeves.

And by keeping quiet, it does the muslim community in the US a disservice because the crazies are the ones that get all the publicity.

In fact, I would suggest that muslim-athiests in the US should hold a 'draw mohammed' contest to show how they are standing up to the community

Standing up =/= deliberately offending people. Please. This is what's wrong with many atheists: you think the only way to create space for atheism is to insult everybody else.

Agree with the idea that PP could--if she wants to--broadcast her atheism more widely in order to help make a space for ex-Muslims to come out comfortably as atheists. But you're going over the edge into strident looneydom (guessing you're the OP of the "when is Jesus coming back?" thread and so many other hate-filled posts). I'll do bullets, because I've noticed you never read anything longer than a few sentences.

- First, you're trying to impose this on PP as a duty, yet this isn't her burden unless she wants to assume it.
- Second, the idea that you need to offend (so different from "standing up") your ex-coreligionists is just dumb, ridiculous and pretty darn illogical, given there's a ton of research showing that people who are backed into a corner just double down on their original beliefs.
- Third, strident haters are quickly written off by anybody, religious or not religious, with a sense of perspective.

Actually pp suggested a "draw Mohammed" contest, - did not impose it as a duty -- which would have been impossible over the internet at any rate. And you don't know if pp was an atheist --many Christians feel that it's silly not to be able to show a likeness of Mohammed -- given the pics of Jesus all over the place, including when he was suffering and dying on the cross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the increase in non-Christian faiths, I would be interested to see a breakdown between immigrants, and people raised in a particular religion, vs identification as an adult.

I have no doubt that there is an increase in American-born/raised Muslims, who have left the faith as an adult (especially on some level of "moderately practicing"). Muslims are increasing in the US, primarily due to immigration and conversion.

I'm DCUM's resident raised Muslim, adult atheist - but have no doubt that there are TONS more like myself. Many also just wouldn't admit it publicly, due to the greater community stigma that's less so in American Christian and Jewish communities.

That stigma won't change unless people like you, as a group, publically wear it proudly on your sleeves.

And by keeping quiet, it does the muslim community in the US a disservice because the crazies are the ones that get all the publicity.

In fact, I would suggest that muslim-athiests in the US should hold a 'draw mohammed' contest to show how they are standing up to the community

Standing up =/= deliberately offending people. Please. This is what's wrong with many atheists: you think the only way to create space for atheism is to insult everybody else.

Agree with the idea that PP could--if she wants to--broadcast her atheism more widely in order to help make a space for ex-Muslims to come out comfortably as atheists. But you're going over the edge into strident looneydom (guessing you're the OP of the "when is Jesus coming back?" thread and so many other hate-filled posts). I'll do bullets, because I've noticed you never read anything longer than a few sentences.

- First, you're trying to impose this on PP as a duty, yet this isn't her burden unless she wants to assume it.
- Second, the idea that you need to offend (so different from "standing up") your ex-coreligionists is just dumb, ridiculous and pretty darn illogical, given there's a ton of research showing that people who are backed into a corner just double down on their original beliefs.
- Third, strident haters are quickly written off by anybody, religious or not religious, with a sense of perspective.

Actually pp suggested a "draw Mohammed" contest, - did not impose it as a duty -- which would have been impossible over the internet at any rate. And you don't know if pp was an atheist --many Christians feel that it's silly not to be able to show a likeness of Mohammed -- given the pics of Jesus all over the place, including when he was suffering and dying on the cross.

Eh. You accused the ex-Muslim poster of "doing a disservice" to atheists and you put the onus for change on "people like you," i.e. ex-Muslims, so yeah, you're putting the onus on her. Also, this kind of "suggestion" is totally in character for one of DCUM's sillier and more strident angry atheists (the one who is so proud of her rental one-bedroom apartment). Your point about Jesus doesn't make sense given that Geller isn't Christian, you know. Also, who said anything about the internet--what's your point there?

But the whole point here is that your "suggestion" (or whatever) for a "draw Muhammed" contest is highly offensive and likely to backfire. Who cares if you were "suggesting" it or "imposing it as a duty"--it's still offensive, childish, and ultimately pretty stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the increase in non-Christian faiths, I would be interested to see a breakdown between immigrants, and people raised in a particular religion, vs identification as an adult.

I have no doubt that there is an increase in American-born/raised Muslims, who have left the faith as an adult (especially on some level of "moderately practicing"). Muslims are increasing in the US, primarily due to immigration and conversion.

I'm DCUM's resident raised Muslim, adult atheist - but have no doubt that there are TONS more like myself. Many also just wouldn't admit it publicly, due to the greater community stigma that's less so in American Christian and Jewish communities.

That stigma won't change unless people like you, as a group, publically wear it proudly on your sleeves.

And by keeping quiet, it does the muslim community in the US a disservice because the crazies are the ones that get all the publicity.

In fact, I would suggest that muslim-athiests in the US should hold a 'draw mohammed' contest to show how they are standing up to the community

Standing up =/= deliberately offending people. Please. This is what's wrong with many atheists: you think the only way to create space for atheism is to insult everybody else.

Agree with the idea that PP could--if she wants to--broadcast her atheism more widely in order to help make a space for ex-Muslims to come out comfortably as atheists. But you're going over the edge into strident looneydom (guessing you're the OP of the "when is Jesus coming back?" thread and so many other hate-filled posts). I'll do bullets, because I've noticed you never read anything longer than a few sentences.

- First, you're trying to impose this on PP as a duty, yet this isn't her burden unless she wants to assume it.
- Second, the idea that you need to offend (so different from "standing up") your ex-coreligionists is just dumb, ridiculous and pretty darn illogical, given there's a ton of research showing that people who are backed into a corner just double down on their original beliefs.
- Third, strident haters are quickly written off by anybody, religious or not religious, with a sense of perspective.

OP here (and PP that you responded to). Nah, I didn't did the 'when is jesus coming back' thread - no need to ask, that which is known already - dude isn't coming back.

There are a lot of us that post here, I odn't post much personally but it is nice to know others are setting the record straight and shining light on 'the darkness'.

I did go overboard with the 'draw Mohammed' thing, but the sentiment is still sound in that I think it is the responsibility of muslim-athiests to be trailblazers and shoulder the burden of shining the light in their community. It is part of the 'reformation' process that the muslim world so desperately needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here (and PP that you responded to). Nah, I didn't did the 'when is jesus coming back' thread - no need to ask, that which is known already - dude isn't coming back.

There are a lot of us that post here, I odn't post much personally but it is nice to know others are setting the record straight and shining light on 'the darkness'.

I did go overboard with the 'draw Mohammed' thing, but the sentiment is still sound in that I think it is the responsibility of muslim-athiests to be trailblazers and shoulder the burden of shining the light in their community. It is part of the 'reformation' process that the muslim world so desperately needs.

I disagree that the sentiment behind "draw Mohammed" is "sound" -- you're not going to change anybody's mind by getting in their faces and up their noses. If anything, common sense says you'll make them tune you out and harden their positions. Just look at the reaction to that "Jesus is coming back" poster--extremely unlikely that OP changed a single mind, and there's certainly no post on that thread going "OMG you're right, I'm becoming an atheist!"

I also disagree that ex-Muslim PP has a "responsibility" to be a trailblazer. IMO, it would be good if ex-Muslim PP can be a trailblazer, but only if she's willing to shoulder the emotional, familial, and other burdens that come with trailblazing. You seem naturally pretty aggressive, but not everybody is very aggressive, moreover you're on the internet and you're asking her to deal with real people.

FWIW, I agree that Islam needs a reformation. But reformation will have to come from within. No way is it going to come because people are holding offensive "draw Mohammed" parties. The biggest factors won't be ex-Muslims writing books about headscarfs and hymens, either. It's going to have to come from ordinary Muslims who look at Paris and Syria and ask what it is that causes some members of the faith to act this way. Remember that Luther's reformation challenged an institution, but a lot of the issues raised by ISIS go right to the heart of the faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here (and PP that you responded to). Nah, I didn't did the 'when is jesus coming back' thread - no need to ask, that which is known already - dude isn't coming back.

There are a lot of us that post here, I odn't post much personally but it is nice to know others are setting the record straight and shining light on 'the darkness'.

I did go overboard with the 'draw Mohammed' thing, but the sentiment is still sound in that I think it is the responsibility of muslim-athiests to be trailblazers and shoulder the burden of shining the light in their community. It is part of the 'reformation' process that the muslim world so desperately needs.

I disagree that the sentiment behind "draw Mohammed" is "sound" -- you're not going to change anybody's mind by getting in their faces and up their noses. If anything, common sense says you'll make them tune you out and harden their positions. Just look at the reaction to that "Jesus is coming back" poster--extremely unlikely that OP changed a single mind, and there's certainly no post on that thread going "OMG you're right, I'm becoming an atheist!"

I also disagree that ex-Muslim PP has a "responsibility" to be a trailblazer. IMO, it would be good if ex-Muslim PP can be a trailblazer, but only if she's willing to shoulder the emotional, familial, and other burdens that come with trailblazing. You seem naturally pretty aggressive, but not everybody is very aggressive, moreover you're on the internet and you're asking her to deal with real people.

FWIW, I agree that Islam needs a reformation. But reformation will have to come from within. No way is it going to come because people are holding offensive "draw Mohammed" parties. The biggest factors won't be ex-Muslims writing books about headscarfs and hymens, either. It's going to have to come from ordinary Muslims who look at Paris and Syria and ask what it is that causes some members of the faith to act this way. Remember that Luther's reformation challenged an institution, but a lot of the issues raised by ISIS go right to the heart of the faith.

wrong, wrong, wrong. Where would blacks and women and gays be today if they hadn't gotten in people's faces?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here (and PP that you responded to). Nah, I didn't did the 'when is jesus coming back' thread - no need to ask, that which is known already - dude isn't coming back.

There are a lot of us that post here, I odn't post much personally but it is nice to know others are setting the record straight and shining light on 'the darkness'.

I did go overboard with the 'draw Mohammed' thing, but the sentiment is still sound in that I think it is the responsibility of muslim-athiests to be trailblazers and shoulder the burden of shining the light in their community. It is part of the 'reformation' process that the muslim world so desperately needs.

I disagree that the sentiment behind "draw Mohammed" is "sound" -- you're not going to change anybody's mind by getting in their faces and up their noses. If anything, common sense says you'll make them tune you out and harden their positions. Just look at the reaction to that "Jesus is coming back" poster--extremely unlikely that OP changed a single mind, and there's certainly no post on that thread going "OMG you're right, I'm becoming an atheist!"

I also disagree that ex-Muslim PP has a "responsibility" to be a trailblazer. IMO, it would be good if ex-Muslim PP can be a trailblazer, but only if she's willing to shoulder the emotional, familial, and other burdens that come with trailblazing. You seem naturally pretty aggressive, but not everybody is very aggressive, moreover you're on the internet and you're asking her to deal with real people.

FWIW, I agree that Islam needs a reformation. But reformation will have to come from within. No way is it going to come because people are holding offensive "draw Mohammed" parties. The biggest factors won't be ex-Muslims writing books about headscarfs and hymens, either. It's going to have to come from ordinary Muslims who look at Paris and Syria and ask what it is that causes some members of the faith to act this way. Remember that Luther's reformation challenged an institution, but a lot of the issues raised by ISIS go right to the heart of the faith.

wrong, wrong, wrong. Where would blacks and women and gays be today if they hadn't gotten in people's faces?

And atheists! Despite all the grousing about angry or militant atheists, their numbers are rising. Really, if a marginalized group isn't angry, no one notices them.