Help me de-infantilize my elementary aged kids

[Anonymous]

I have 2 boys, ages 6yo and 11yo. Because of the age difference, and because they both are active, stubborn, occasionally crazy boys, we have tended to do too much for them. As in, I get all meals, do all the laundry and food prep/cleanup; my OCD husband is constantly picking up their toys for them; rules on things like screen time have to be enforced with constant reminders and cajoling and threats.

The kids rise to these (low) expectations - I have to beg them to get ready for school in the morning and multiple times each day, they behave in ways that seem more like a couple of toddlers than a kindergarten kid and a 5th grader. For example, the younger one will grab the older one's Lego and deliberately break it so that his brother will chase him around the house; they both seem to have a marvelous time doing this and it always coincides with when we're trying to get them to go get ready for bed or school.

I know that I have only myself to blame, so please don't flame me. I could really use some advice on how to end this cycle, put more responsibility for bas and encourage them to be more responsible and mature. What are reasonable expectations for kids these ages (and my 6yo will want to do whatever his older brother is permitted to do, so that's a factor)? And how do I go about making these changes - they're too old for sticker charts, right?

Thanks for any advice!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The kids rise to these (low) expectations - I have to beg them to get ready for school in the morning and multiple times each day, they behave in ways that seem more like a couple of toddlers than a kindergarten kid and a 5th grader. For example, the younger one will grab the older one's Lego and deliberately break it so that his brother will chase him around the house; they both seem to have a marvelous time doing this and it always coincides with when we're trying to get them to go get ready for bed or school.

This actually sounds to me like very age-appropriate behavior for kindergarten/fifth-grade siblings -- alas.

[Anonymous]

My first question would be to ask what your tolerance level is for their anger and for natural consequences to their mistakes/missteps while they are learning. You and your DH need to be together on this. The fact that he is cleaning up their toys is not a good sign.

Using kitchen timers helps a lot with these ages. It depersonalizes things and audible alarms help kids to remember time passing. I would start with a few basics -- all toys need to be put away before bedtime (with a timer for when the bedtime routing begins) and any toys not put away will be put in "toy jail" for a week. Second offense and they go away for a month.

The 11 year old can certainly start doing his own laundry.

You have to set warning timers and a final timer and be willing to let them be late for school in the morning if they don't regulate themselves and then suffer the real consequences of that -- losing play time in the afternoon, etc.

Reasonable expectations would have them both:
* Making their beds
* Tidying their rooms
* Sweeping (6 year old) and vacuuming (11 year old and maybe 6 year old depending on how heavy the vacuum is)
* Emptying dishwasher
* Hanging clothes on a line if you have one, or else switching from washer to dryer
* Setting and clearing the table
* Dusting

These should be every day tasks. If you have a pet they could be in charge of water and food and walks.

[Anonymous]

My five and nine year olds make their own lunches, empty the dishwasher, fold clothes (nine year old puts away), partially load dishwasher, dust, pick up after themselves (but not always and not perfectly), and set and clear table. Aside from lunches, not every one of these happens every day but regularly.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like my house! I still haVe to make lists for chores they have been doing for years. It works though. And if I don't make the list, with a time frame for Completing them, and a consequence outlined if they don't complete them, the chores don't get done. Same goes for getting ready for sport Or music lessons. Good luck op!

[Anonymous]

You have a perfect opportunity coming up. Your oldest is getting ready to start middle school so it's time for him to grow up. You can tell him that once he starts, he will be expected to get himself up and ready for school and make his own breakfast, monitor his own time, etc. So, now it's time to practice so he will have all of the skills he needs when the time comes. You can just keep adding on expectations because he's getting older and he needs to act like it. This worked really well for me when I wanted to increase independence with my kids.

[Anonymous]

Oh boy, you have your work cut out for you!! Good for you for wanting to take it on though.

I'd recommend starting with a Chore & Commission Chart. Make some tasks they have to do just because they are part of the family, and some they get Commission for. Even if you don't like his philosophy for adults, Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace Junior is VERY good for this. You don't even need to buy it, just read up on how he suggests handling kids and money and you'll learn what you need to know (have to teach them work = money; immediate gratification of giving them money right away when they are young and making it visible; having a visible chore chart).

Also, you need to control some of the chaos at your key times - getting ready and bed time. The more you can do in advance - picking out clothes on Sundays or the night before right after dinner, picking out a book to read, packing backpacks, etc, the calmer those times will go.

You're going to have to be firm. The first few weeks will be the hardest, they won't believe you're going to stick by what you say. The WORST thing you can do is make a declaration and not stick to it, so be sure whatever you say, you're ready to enforce. If you're sitting on the couch and want them to stop running around, don't say it until you're ready to get off the couch and MAKE them stop.

[Anonymous]

So we have two kids about to start middle school and they contribute alot to keeping the house organized and themselves sorted out. Lists worked for us in the beginning to get them moving and sorting out all the steps involved in things like getting ready for bed or up for school. If I had only said go get ready for bed they would have had a difficult time knowing where to start and what all "getting ready" meant. Now they know - upstairs to shower including wash hair, face, bottoms of feet, arm pits (amazing that they would miss this stuff), dry off, hang up towel, lotion, brush hair, brush teeth, put away toothbrushes, get on clean PJs, put dirty clothes in the hamper, get out clothes for the next day, find a book to read, close curtains/windows on their bedroom windows.

So go get ready for bed actually means a whole long list of different activities that they had to be coached through, a list put up on a sticky note next to the mirror, and for a few weeks spot checked.

Same is true for the morning - get dressed, fold PJs, make bed, choose breakfast (I cook for them), walk dog, brush teeth, brush hair, wash off milk mustaches, get homework checked by a parent and put in backpack, check in about afternoon plans/pick up.

I could go on and on. They are about 99% proficient at doing what needs to be done without asking or reminding. Some days better than others. Took a few weeks of breaking it down, reminding, checking and now they can do it on their own.

Good luck. I think skills like this are essential for later in life. I cannot tell you the number of junior staff I manage who seem to have a really hard time successfully breaking down big tasks and managing their time.

[Anonymous]

And I thought I was bad--ha!

Routine is what worked for my 7 and 9.5 year old boys.

They know what time to get up from breakfast (8:30am), get dressed and brush teeth, in the care at 8:45am. The younger one will come in and wake DH and I up if it's past 8am. I WAH and DH goes in later and works later.

It's a well-oiled machine and when they get goofy and begin chasing each other---I just say 'look at the clock'. They are obsessed with NOT being late to school and I capitalize on that. Their school hands out tardy passes and the older one wants to get in early to get one of the 'coveted cubbies' vs hooks.

Dh is chronically late and one of the things I was determined to do was not have that rub off on my sons!!! It's worked. I just ditch him and drive separately if he is going to make one of the kids late for a game/pre-game warm-up. Travel is also strict about being 'on-time'.

My boys are pretty calm. I am a micr0-manager because I have no patience so DH has been really good about making them do things for themselves even when it's painfully...PAINFULLY slow. I was always doing things for them because it was easier for me. Not a way to raise competent individuals. I am following DH's lead the best I can (without it interfering with my need to be on time---I just have to allot more time for things.

[Anonymous]

I think your husband needs to do more work on letting things get done by your children. It will be hard to see progress without that.

[Anonymous]

Start basic -
My kids have been doing laundry since they were toddlers. I lined up 6 laundry baskets for the "laundry train" - there was a white car, red car, blue car, brown car, underwear car and work clothes car. The kids would take turn driving the train and crawling through the baskets. laundry was a game, but now at age 13 & 9 - I send them to the basement to sort and it's done. (I still start & load the washer as a double check, and the new washer is only a few month old. I'm slowly telling them about setting).

You'll need to start simple and keep it fun. It will be quicker for you to do it yourself, but that is not the point.
It took us an hour to sort laundry years ago, but they can do it now.

They should be able to clear and set the table, sweep under the table, feed the pets, keep laundry and wet towels off the floor.

[Anonymous]

Do they get an allowance? I know the conventional wisdom now is "not to tie allowance to chores" but we found that money is a major motivator My boys roughly that age have chores like laundry, make bed, pick up toys, empty dishwasher, take out recycling. I write down about 2 chores per day for them on a board so it never gets overwhelming. No chores means no allowance, and they seem to jump right on them because they want to save money to buy stuff.

[Anonymous]

My advice - start slow and do it right with training and expectations - that is train them in every step of the first chore you start with, don't add a chore until they do the first one alone, correctly and without supervision from you. For example with laundry, you will follow son and give him directions. Always have them do every single step in the same order and have them explain the steps as they do them. You will need to supervise several to many times until he gets it without any guidance. Once this is set (same time/day every week), add a new chore. Once trained in all, let them pull from a basket weekly or rotate chores monthly etc so they get a chance to do/remember what they learned.

Have immediate earnings and/or penalties to help keep them on the path. It is not a natural interest of theirs and won't be until they are on their own. Explain how it is your job to teach them to be responsible adults and let them know they will have huge bragging rights at college when they have to show their roommates how to do this stuff!

Good luck and post a follow up.

[Anonymous]

Relax, let them be kids. There is plenty of time for them to act like adults.

[Anonymous]

PS, just posted. DH needs to step back if possible. Get his buy in.

Also, start sending your kids into the store to purchase that gallon of milk you are running out to get. Give them the credit card and show them how to do self check out, then let them try on their own. Same goes for pumping gas. Kids generally love that type of activity. Send them up together to buy food at the checkout counter etc.

Eventually you will be able to have them prepare simple family meals like boxed mac n cheese and salads for everyone with make your own sundaes - it can be fun and a learning experience.

Remember it will often be more work for you but believe me it will be worth every second. Just resist stepping in. Advise only because they can do it all with guidance.