My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Social climber parents confuse their kid being in the same dorm as rich kids or at parties with rich kids to be the same as genuinely in that sphere. Or even going on spring break with them.

You’re only in that sphere when you’re still living with them and vacationing with them AFTER college. And you’re REALLY in that sphere when you’re allowed to marry a high status boy or girl from that sphere. When these wealthy college friends are introducing you to potential spouses, ex their attractive siblings or classmates they went to prep school with, et al.

Most of the “connections” strivers THINK they made in college cease when everyone graduates. Maybe they’ll get invited to a wedding or two. That’s about it. Your kid is nothing to them.

Worked for Kate Middleton!

Kate’s family is wealthy and aristocracy. And she was the prettiest girl at their college. Is your son or daughter going to be the most attractive coed at an Ivy? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

UPS drivers make around 100k just saying..

[Anonymous]

Idiot. That's one particular UPS driver. Not typical.

[Anonymous]

We are lucky I can afford to gift my kids a college education. My DD is going to a selective school. It’s not about ROI but learning how to think critically, learn to learn, grow, all that jazz. If she ends up in a $150k job out of school, I would be super surprised - that is not the type of kid she is. She may never be a high earner. But she will have an impact over her lifetime. That I can feel in my bones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Thanks for your post. We nervous DCUM parents need to hear this.

[Anonymous]

Major is more important, the best combo would be ivy League and computer science

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does elite mean here?

Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and perhaps Princeton & Yale are elite.

Cornell, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Duke, etc. etc. are not.

And yes, even Harvard/MIT/Stanford/Princeton/Yale won't give your kid a $150k job, wealthy spouse (a 1950's reason to go to a elite school, but okay), and a wealthy, highly-connected friend group off the bat. And thank god for that.

The purpose of top schools is to have top professors and top students to learn from and compete with, and improve oneself in the process. Not a $150k job, wealthy spouse and highly-connected wealthy network.

What these schools do provide beyond the education though is a pedigree that lasts through 40+ years of one's careers, and certainly can come in handy down the line - if you want to use it.

As for the rest - Cornell, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Duke, etc., most people do not view these schools to be more "elite" than top state flagships like Berkeley, Michigan, etc. Most will consider these students to either be wealthy dumb kids (too dumb for HYPSM) or top middle-class kids, the same that attend top flagships.

You need to leave your bubble once in a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Major is more important, the best combo would be ivy League and computer science

Literally the exact same internship and job offers you’d have as a CS major at VT or UMD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Thanks for your post. We nervous DCUM parents need to hear this.

Don't be so nervous. I have a kid about to graduate college - (high school class of 2020) - he has friends at a wide range of colleges. The ones already with the secure over 100K jobs are coming from UMD, Indiana, Wisconsin and Lehigh. Graduate school of some sort for most of the LACs and some Ivys, unknown for many of the kids, but it's really not apparent that the Ivy kids or "best" schools are really giving off better results, especially in year 1. Many kids also took class of 2020 covid gap years and he has many friends that are either juniors in college or else taking closer to 5 years to graduate (most of the 4+ year graduates are from big OOS schools-- too hard to graduate in 4 years at those places).

In any event, success appears to be more tightly tied to major (all 100K jobs in engineering or finance) than the ranking of the schools. I'm sure Ivy kids are doing well and many have secure jobs lined up, but I don't know any of them and plenty of others are doing well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Thanks for your post. We nervous DCUM parents need to hear this.

Don't be so nervous. I have a kid about to graduate college - (high school class of 2020) - he has friends at a wide range of colleges. The ones already with the secure over 100K jobs are coming from UMD, Indiana, Wisconsin and Lehigh. Graduate school of some sort for most of the LACs and some Ivys, unknown for many of the kids, but it's really not apparent that the Ivy kids or "best" schools are really giving off better results, especially in year 1. Many kids also took class of 2020 covid gap years and he has many friends that are either juniors in college or else taking closer to 5 years to graduate (most of the 4+ year graduates are from big OOS schools-- too hard to graduate in 4 years at those places).

In any event, success appears to be more tightly tied to major (all 100K jobs in engineering or finance) than the ranking of the schools. I'm sure Ivy kids are doing well and many have secure jobs lined up, but I don't know any of them and plenty of others are doing well.

The school + career path + kids’ drive, ambition; For Quants in finance career, a fresh graduate can earn $300k or more per year, but you have to go to top CS schools or the very top schools: MHPS, UChicago, Columbia and a few more second tier schools (including Yale) for this niche but super IQ area. Even Dartmouth/Brown students do not have much of a chance. No pipeline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Social climber parents confuse their kid being in the same dorm as rich kids or at parties with rich kids to be the same as genuinely in that sphere. Or even going on spring break with them.

You’re only in that sphere when you’re still living with them and vacationing with them AFTER college. And you’re REALLY in that sphere when you’re allowed to marry a high status boy or girl from that sphere. When these wealthy college friends are introducing you to potential spouses, ex their attractive siblings or classmates they went to prep school with, et al.

Most of the “connections” strivers THINK they made in college cease when everyone graduates. Maybe they’ll get invited to a wedding or two. That’s about it. Your kid is nothing to them.

Worked for Kate Middleton!

Kate’s family is wealthy and aristocracy. And she was the prettiest girl at their college. Is your son or daughter going to be the most attractive coed at an Ivy? No.

No aristocracy. Strictly working class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are lucky I can afford to gift my kids a college education. My DD is going to a selective school. It’s not about ROI but learning how to think critically, learn to learn, grow, all that jazz. If she ends up in a $150k job out of school, I would be super surprised - that is not the type of kid she is. She may never be a high earner. But she will have an impact over her lifetime. That I can feel in my bones.

+1000

This is how my middle class parents looked at it in the late 80s, and they were 100% correct. My college experience broadened my thinking and my worldview in endless ways, both big and small. Also, I learned and connected with brilliant and caring classmates and friends, many of whom are still dear to me 30 years later.

Could I have had this experience at a less selective/elite school? Probably. Because that’s who I was for those for years of my life. It wasn’t always easy, but I was very motivated to get outside my comfort zone and take some risks - with both my academic interests and in substantive conversations with classmates (and, to a lesser extent, professors.)

To me, that’s what the college experience is all about - exposure to new people and ideas, challenges both academically and socially, and the space to absorb and reflect on it from time to time as you grow. (My journals from those four years are epic - and hilarious to look back on now.)

And yes, my career has been fruitful and fulfilling, for sure! But for me, it was never about making the most money possible in my first job out of college. I needed to support myself, of course, and I did! But my career and earnings were things that evolved over time, no doubt propelled by phenomenal college education.

You do you, OP. Given your POV and values, I can see why you’re disappointed. And I’m sorry - it’s a lot of money to spend on something that is a poor fit for your goals. But these rigorous schools do offer a ton of value to certain types of students. Perhaps your DC can transfer to a school that is a better match for your goals?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Thanks for your post. We nervous DCUM parents need to hear this.

Don't be so nervous. I have a kid about to graduate college - (high school class of 2020) - he has friends at a wide range of colleges. The ones already with the secure over 100K jobs are coming from UMD, Indiana, Wisconsin and Lehigh. Graduate school of some sort for most of the LACs and some Ivys, unknown for many of the kids, but it's really not apparent that the Ivy kids or "best" schools are really giving off better results, especially in year 1. Many kids also took class of 2020 covid gap years and he has many friends that are either juniors in college or else taking closer to 5 years to graduate (most of the 4+ year graduates are from big OOS schools-- too hard to graduate in 4 years at those places).

In any event, success appears to be more tightly tied to major (all 100K jobs in engineering or finance) than the ranking of the schools. I'm sure Ivy kids are doing well and many have secure jobs lined up, but I don't know any of them and plenty of others are doing well.

This is a cope. Or maybe you’re just too dim to understand per capita. On average, kids graduating from elite colleges are far more likely to be making big bucks right after college or off to prestigious grad programs which will net big bucks.

[Anonymous]

Was Dr. Gay your president?
My children found Elite College status to be wonderful and door opening!
Does the “removal” of Dr. Gay have to be considered a political issue?
Why would Dr. Gay leave, if President Obama has had her back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Thanks for your post. We nervous DCUM parents need to hear this.

Don't be so nervous. I have a kid about to graduate college - (high school class of 2020) - he has friends at a wide range of colleges. The ones already with the secure over 100K jobs are coming from UMD, Indiana, Wisconsin and Lehigh. Graduate school of some sort for most of the LACs and some Ivys, unknown for many of the kids, but it's really not apparent that the Ivy kids or "best" schools are really giving off better results, especially in year 1. Many kids also took class of 2020 covid gap years and he has many friends that are either juniors in college or else taking closer to 5 years to graduate (most of the 4+ year graduates are from big OOS schools-- too hard to graduate in 4 years at those places).

In any event, success appears to be more tightly tied to major (all 100K jobs in engineering or finance) than the ranking of the schools. I'm sure Ivy kids are doing well and many have secure jobs lined up, but I don't know any of them and plenty of others are doing well.

This is a cope. Or maybe you’re just too dim to understand per capita. On average, kids graduating from elite colleges are far more likely to be making big bucks right after college or off to prestigious grad programs which will net big bucks.

Yep - you are right - on average/per capita. But that's just an average and there are plenty of kids doing well from other universities. Look around at your friends - are they the ones with the best undergraduate degrees?