Should financial aid in private school be stricter?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a one-size-fits-all situation. In the Cleveland area, a family earning $136K a year would almost never qualify for aid from a Catholic high school—that’s considered upper-middle class there. Tuition is probably around $11K to $25K, and homes are far more affordable; you can buy a nice house for $200K or less.

In contrast, in the D.C. area, $136K is more of a middle-class income. Catholic high school tuition can run anywhere from $20K to $40K, and a modest townhouse might cost $350K or more. If a family earns $136K, has one kid, lives in a $350K townhouse, and the school charges $27K in tuition, I’d absolutely want them to receive aid. It’s all relative to cost of living.

I agree with your statement. Let me tell you what is the issue with an example with a concrete school and publicly available data (so parents from private schools don’t go bananas).

In Maret only 34 percent of the financial aid goes to families with income of 150k or less. So your example falls in that category which I think it’s fair. I don’t feel comfortable, specially with the 34 percent of financial aid that goes to families earning 250k or more. And that’s why I raise the issue if financial aid could be a bit stricter. I personally think that it should stop at an income grater than 150k.

If a really nice family with 4 kids earns 300k, you don't think they should get a break on tuition? Tuition at Maret is about 50k. With 4 kid they would pay 200k in after tax money. There is zero possibility of them being able to afford the school. Personally, I think larger families add to the cultural fabric of the school and increase diversity. Not everyone needs to come from a UMC family with 2 parents, 2 kids and a dog. Larger families, are part of the diversity.

What would happen if that family goes to public schools or decide to go to a cheaper religious private school. Absolutely nothing wrong. So the question is why schools should subsidize them. Why a household with 4 kids is more important than a household with 1 kid? Not entirely clear.

I will answer as though it were a real question.
What would happen is the student body of my kids schools would be less diverse because fewer of these tyoe of families would exist in the school. The school would be more polarized. I'm looking at this from the school's perspective, not that individual family's perspective.

I am full pay and evaluate the school as a whole, not just my personal situation within it.

But is it really diverse? I think you can get a pretty diverse pool of middle class families that can pay full tuition.

It is diverse within the definition of diverse that the community defines. If you want to know how that community views diversity visit their website. All the schools post about diversity and they all subtlety differ.

That’s an interesting point. It would be useful to know if financial aid is really helping to achieve diversity or it’s just a give away. One could compare the diversity of the parents paying full tuition and those receiving aid, and check the difference. The reason I mention this, is that see a lot of diversity in parents paying full tuition. So not clear is financial aid is doing anything at all. Without hard data is not possible to tell.

Also a good point. And as a private school they are not required to give you that information. So as a potential or current parent, you can choose if you want to participate or not.

[Anonymous]

Your kids wouldn’t last a day in a normal high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a one-size-fits-all situation. In the Cleveland area, a family earning $136K a year would almost never qualify for aid from a Catholic high school—that’s considered upper-middle class there. Tuition is probably around $11K to $25K, and homes are far more affordable; you can buy a nice house for $200K or less.

In contrast, in the D.C. area, $136K is more of a middle-class income. Catholic high school tuition can run anywhere from $20K to $40K, and a modest townhouse might cost $350K or more. If a family earns $136K, has one kid, lives in a $350K townhouse, and the school charges $27K in tuition, I’d absolutely want them to receive aid. It’s all relative to cost of living.

I agree with your statement. Let me tell you what is the issue with an example with a concrete school and publicly available data (so parents from private schools don’t go bananas).

In Maret only 34 percent of the financial aid goes to families with income of 150k or less. So your example falls in that category which I think it’s fair. I don’t feel comfortable, specially with the 34 percent of financial aid that goes to families earning 250k or more. And that’s why I raise the issue if financial aid could be a bit stricter. I personally think that it should stop at an income grater than 150k.

If a really nice family with 4 kids earns 300k, you don't think they should get a break on tuition? Tuition at Maret is about 50k. With 4 kid they would pay 200k in after tax money. There is zero possibility of them being able to afford the school. Personally, I think larger families add to the cultural fabric of the school and increase diversity. Not everyone needs to come from a UMC family with 2 parents, 2 kids and a dog. Larger families, are part of the diversity.

What would happen if that family goes to public schools or decide to go to a cheaper religious private school. Absolutely nothing wrong. So the question is why schools should subsidize them. Why a household with 4 kids is more important than a household with 1 kid? Not entirely clear.

I will answer as though it were a real question.
What would happen is the student body of my kids schools would be less diverse because fewer of these tyoe of families would exist in the school. The school would be more polarized. I'm looking at this from the school's perspective, not that individual family's perspective.

I am full pay and evaluate the school as a whole, not just my personal situation within it.

But is it really diverse? I think you can get a pretty diverse pool of middle class families that can pay full tuition.

It is diverse within the definition of diverse that the community defines. If you want to know how that community views diversity visit their website. All the schools post about diversity and they all subtlety differ.

That’s an interesting point. It would be useful to know if financial aid is really helping to achieve diversity or it’s just a give away. One could compare the diversity of the parents paying full tuition and those receiving aid, and check the difference. The reason I mention this, is that see a lot of diversity in parents paying full tuition. So not clear is financial aid is doing anything at all. Without hard data is not possible to tell.

Also a good point. And as a private school they are not required to give you that information. So as a potential or current parent, you can choose if you want to participate or not.

So I guess is fine to say for fund raising “please donate to contribute to the diversity of school, but we are clueless on how your money will contribute to that goal”

I think that would be a good disclaimer.

[Anonymous]

My kid gets jumped at his local public high school. You don’t see me complaining.

[Anonymous]

You guys stink

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People with ability to pay who game the system are not a reason to ban middle class families who cannot afford full pay from financial aid.

And most "poor" families don't even bother applying - would you? There's a lot of incidental costs involved with private school - the uniforms, aftercare, hot lunches, special lunches, the billion special outfits day, like hey wear your favorite football jersey this week, baseball next week, fave green pants, orange shirt, colonial costume, etc etc. The classist vibe. I don't think DD's grade has any poor families at all.

Yes we have to subsidize middle class families so they can cover their incidentals like the bmw, trips to Europe, the mortgage, etc etc

If this is the way you feel, why the heck are you participating in a system clearly against your values?! You're a total hypocrite!

That’s exactly my point. You should erase inclusion from your vocabulary if you want to be a bit more honest.

You should think more carefully about what inclusion means.

If you consider yourself an inclusive person and would, for example, "include" anyone in your family that your child chooses to marry - would you also include a rapist serial killer who beats your grandchildren? I wouldn't. I would purposefully exclude them from family gatherings.

Yes. Low income kids are similar to rapists serial killers.

If that's what you got from the extreme example, you wouldn't pass the reading comprehension portion of the ISEE and would be EXCLUDED from private school based on subpar intelligence.

This is the example you brought up :”If you consider yourself an inclusive person and would, for example, "include" anyone in your family that your child chooses to marry - would you also include a rapist serial killer who beats your grandchildren?”

In essence what you are saying is that including low income kids in schools is similar to allowing your child Marrying a rapist serial killer. Now I think this will make you look better.

The example is about how the definition of inclusion is different for different people in different circumstances. It is not about drawing analogies between groups.

But in your analogy, yes, I would also exclude serial rapist killers from private schools.

I would include low middle and high income kids in private schools.

[Anonymous]

Your kids couldn’t handle the roaches , and fights of public school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Independent school’s bring in who they want. They aren’t getting scammed.

Yes. The only one scammed are middle income families subsidizing other middle income families through financial aid.

Nope, we all know what we are doing.

Well you know. But wouldnt hurt to say that financial aid is not really philanthropy. School are subsidizing well off families and excluding Low income families by design. Then somehow the image of inclusion that want to portray gets a bit tainted, right?

Inclusion is a strange concept. It normally doesn't "include" everyone by design. Take, for example, a huge corporation that advocates for a very inclusive environment. They won't hire uneducated people, yet they say they are inclusive. A school that is "inclusive" is similar- they include people who add to a rounded environment, designed and decided by themselves. Why do they have to "include" people that fall outside their own design?

You should add a footnote in your school brochure for inclusion : “we refer to inclusion as the capacity to include upper income class families that we like”

Why?
It already states what their mission and culture are. If you don't understand this from the published materials you don't deserve to be there.

Share a link so I can see it. Most schools are more in the camp of “fake inclusivity”. And your posts show that.

You cannot see that all of the definitions of diversity are slightly different. What make your personal view of how a school should be diverse matter more than their definition of diversity. It might be fake to you, but real to many others. You reek entitled and arrogant to believe your views are so much better than everyone elses.

I would be fine with any definition of diversity as long as it fully disclosed to parents that actually fund financial aid. When people donate money they want to know how their money is going to be spent. Nothing crazy or offensive about that. Not sure why my comments are affecting you so much.

Yes, nothing crazy or offensive in this particular post. If you donate to that cause, by all means ask those questions. If the answer is not satisfactory then don't donate. Does that response offend you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Independent school’s bring in who they want. They aren’t getting scammed.

Yes. The only one scammed are middle income families subsidizing other middle income families through financial aid.

Nope, we all know what we are doing.

Well you know. But wouldnt hurt to say that financial aid is not really philanthropy. School are subsidizing well off families and excluding Low income families by design. Then somehow the image of inclusion that want to portray gets a bit tainted, right?

Inclusion is a strange concept. It normally doesn't "include" everyone by design. Take, for example, a huge corporation that advocates for a very inclusive environment. They won't hire uneducated people, yet they say they are inclusive. A school that is "inclusive" is similar- they include people who add to a rounded environment, designed and decided by themselves. Why do they have to "include" people that fall outside their own design?

You should add a footnote in your school brochure for inclusion : “we refer to inclusion as the capacity to include upper income class families that we like”

Why?
It already states what their mission and culture are. If you don't understand this from the published materials you don't deserve to be there.

Share a link so I can see it. Most schools are more in the camp of “fake inclusivity”. And your posts show that.

You cannot see that all of the definitions of diversity are slightly different. What make your personal view of how a school should be diverse matter more than their definition of diversity. It might be fake to you, but real to many others. You reek entitled and arrogant to believe your views are so much better than everyone elses.

I would be fine with any definition of diversity as long as it fully disclosed to parents that actually fund financial aid. When people donate money they want to know how their money is going to be spent. Nothing crazy or offensive about that. Not sure why my comments are affecting you so much.

Yes, nothing crazy or offensive in this particular post. If you donate to that cause, by all means ask those questions. If the answer is not satisfactory then don't donate. Does that response offend you?

Forgot to add - if you don't like the response, please post it here so many parents can get twisted off about it

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This thread is something else.

It’s very revealing about how parents think about inclusion. And how upper middle class families feel entitled to financial aid.

Let's get real: This thread is a poster child of the seething elitism that permeates at least the striver subculture in NOVA. They want to be the lords of their newfound elite fiefdom, didn't you hear they "made it" y'all, and they are obnoxiously rude to anybody they perceive as earning less HHI than them, like middle class parents, and wish to trash and exclude them like a school bully. It's very high school. But, they post a meme once a year about caring for the poors or whatever is fashionable to try to cloak the stench of their bully poo - like spraying secret deodorant on pits without showering a month. Nope, you still stink as a human being.

In your example a full pay striver who "made it" doesn't want a "low income" kid. Actually, IRL that persona WOULD want a low income kid. Why? That kid has zero possibility to compete with theirs in the social landscape. The ones that they would want to EXCLUDE in your example would be the middle class kids. Why? Because most of these strivers pull up the ladder behind them. This has been demonstrated over and over and over in literature about minority groups in organizations.

So, let me get this straight - you would prefer that the striving UMC pull up the ladders behind them that would allow a larger portion of middle class families access to private education in lieu of a tiny sub-population of truly low income deserving kids? So wierd.

I support deserving middle class financial aid. It helps the largest number of students. More people helped = better for my dollars. Period.

I never mentioned the hypothetical low income students. I said middle class.

But please, humor me - at what schools are "LOW INCOME" families applying to in droves and their financial aid is snatched up by middle class folks. Tell me all about it

Lol!
I think we might be in aggressive agreement then. There are no droves of low income kids snatching money from middle class kids.

Say your financial aid pot is 100k. You can fully fund 2 low income kids or partially fund 10 MC kids. I'd fund 10 MC kids.

Specially if your kid is one of the 10.

Probably true. But also true for me and I donate in the upper tier of the school.

Oh really. I am glad that your school discloses that data. I hope they also disclose the incomes of families receiving financial aid.

They only disclose it upon request. I'm on the financial aid committee and board.

[Anonymous]

You guys couldn’t handle the going through the motions of public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is something else.

It’s very revealing about how parents think about inclusion. And how upper middle class families feel entitled to financial aid.

Let's get real: This thread is a poster child of the seething elitism that permeates at least the striver subculture in NOVA. They want to be the lords of their newfound elite fiefdom, didn't you hear they "made it" y'all, and they are obnoxiously rude to anybody they perceive as earning less HHI than them, like middle class parents, and wish to trash and exclude them like a school bully. It's very high school. But, they post a meme once a year about caring for the poors or whatever is fashionable to try to cloak the stench of their bully poo - like spraying secret deodorant on pits without showering a month. Nope, you still stink as a human being.

In your example a full pay striver who "made it" doesn't want a "low income" kid. Actually, IRL that persona WOULD want a low income kid. Why? That kid has zero possibility to compete with theirs in the social landscape. The ones that they would want to EXCLUDE in your example would be the middle class kids. Why? Because most of these strivers pull up the ladder behind them. This has been demonstrated over and over and over in literature about minority groups in organizations.

So, let me get this straight - you would prefer that the striving UMC pull up the ladders behind them that would allow a larger portion of middle class families access to private education in lieu of a tiny sub-population of truly low income deserving kids? So wierd.

I support deserving middle class financial aid. It helps the largest number of students. More people helped = better for my dollars. Period.

I never mentioned the hypothetical low income students. I said middle class.

But please, humor me - at what schools are "LOW INCOME" families applying to in droves and their financial aid is snatched up by middle class folks. Tell me all about it

Lol!
I think we might be in aggressive agreement then. There are no droves of low income kids snatching money from middle class kids.

Say your financial aid pot is 100k. You can fully fund 2 low income kids or partially fund 10 MC kids. I'd fund 10 MC kids.

Specially if your kid is one of the 10.

Probably true. But also true for me and I donate in the upper tier of the school.

Oh really. I am glad that your school discloses that data. I hope they also disclose the incomes of families receiving financial aid.

They only disclose it upon request. I'm on the financial aid committee and board.

Wow, could a $125k single mom with 1 kid, a home valued at 345k, and a 310k mortgage balance get aid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a one-size-fits-all situation. In the Cleveland area, a family earning $136K a year would almost never qualify for aid from a Catholic high school—that’s considered upper-middle class there. Tuition is probably around $11K to $25K, and homes are far more affordable; you can buy a nice house for $200K or less.

In contrast, in the D.C. area, $136K is more of a middle-class income. Catholic high school tuition can run anywhere from $20K to $40K, and a modest townhouse might cost $350K or more. If a family earns $136K, has one kid, lives in a $350K townhouse, and the school charges $27K in tuition, I’d absolutely want them to receive aid. It’s all relative to cost of living.

I agree with your statement. Let me tell you what is the issue with an example with a concrete school and publicly available data (so parents from private schools don’t go bananas).

In Maret only 34 percent of the financial aid goes to families with income of 150k or less. So your example falls in that category which I think it’s fair. I don’t feel comfortable, specially with the 34 percent of financial aid that goes to families earning 250k or more. And that’s why I raise the issue if financial aid could be a bit stricter. I personally think that it should stop at an income grater than 150k.

If a really nice family with 4 kids earns 300k, you don't think they should get a break on tuition? Tuition at Maret is about 50k. With 4 kid they would pay 200k in after tax money. There is zero possibility of them being able to afford the school. Personally, I think larger families add to the cultural fabric of the school and increase diversity. Not everyone needs to come from a UMC family with 2 parents, 2 kids and a dog. Larger families, are part of the diversity.

What would happen if that family goes to public schools or decide to go to a cheaper religious private school. Absolutely nothing wrong. So the question is why schools should subsidize them. Why a household with 4 kids is more important than a household with 1 kid? Not entirely clear.

I will answer as though it were a real question.
What would happen is the student body of my kids schools would be less diverse because fewer of these tyoe of families would exist in the school. The school would be more polarized. I'm looking at this from the school's perspective, not that individual family's perspective.

I am full pay and evaluate the school as a whole, not just my personal situation within it.

But is it really diverse? I think you can get a pretty diverse pool of middle class families that can pay full tuition.

It is diverse within the definition of diverse that the community defines. If you want to know how that community views diversity visit their website. All the schools post about diversity and they all subtlety differ.

That’s an interesting point. It would be useful to know if financial aid is really helping to achieve diversity or it’s just a give away. One could compare the diversity of the parents paying full tuition and those receiving aid, and check the difference. The reason I mention this, is that see a lot of diversity in parents paying full tuition. So not clear is financial aid is doing anything at all. Without hard data is not possible to tell.

Also a good point. And as a private school they are not required to give you that information. So as a potential or current parent, you can choose if you want to participate or not.

So I guess is fine to say for fund raising “please donate to contribute to the diversity of school, but we are clueless on how your money will contribute to that goal”

I think that would be a good disclaimer.

..... or you could just ask

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You guys couldn’t handle the going through the motions of public school.

True for my family. We tried.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is something else.

It’s very revealing about how parents think about inclusion. And how upper middle class families feel entitled to financial aid.

Let's get real: This thread is a poster child of the seething elitism that permeates at least the striver subculture in NOVA. They want to be the lords of their newfound elite fiefdom, didn't you hear they "made it" y'all, and they are obnoxiously rude to anybody they perceive as earning less HHI than them, like middle class parents, and wish to trash and exclude them like a school bully. It's very high school. But, they post a meme once a year about caring for the poors or whatever is fashionable to try to cloak the stench of their bully poo - like spraying secret deodorant on pits without showering a month. Nope, you still stink as a human being.

In your example a full pay striver who "made it" doesn't want a "low income" kid. Actually, IRL that persona WOULD want a low income kid. Why? That kid has zero possibility to compete with theirs in the social landscape. The ones that they would want to EXCLUDE in your example would be the middle class kids. Why? Because most of these strivers pull up the ladder behind them. This has been demonstrated over and over and over in literature about minority groups in organizations.

So, let me get this straight - you would prefer that the striving UMC pull up the ladders behind them that would allow a larger portion of middle class families access to private education in lieu of a tiny sub-population of truly low income deserving kids? So wierd.

I support deserving middle class financial aid. It helps the largest number of students. More people helped = better for my dollars. Period.

I never mentioned the hypothetical low income students. I said middle class.

But please, humor me - at what schools are "LOW INCOME" families applying to in droves and their financial aid is snatched up by middle class folks. Tell me all about it

Lol!
I think we might be in aggressive agreement then. There are no droves of low income kids snatching money from middle class kids.

Say your financial aid pot is 100k. You can fully fund 2 low income kids or partially fund 10 MC kids. I'd fund 10 MC kids.

Specially if your kid is one of the 10.

Probably true. But also true for me and I donate in the upper tier of the school.

Oh really. I am glad that your school discloses that data. I hope they also disclose the incomes of families receiving financial aid.

They only disclose it upon request. I'm on the financial aid committee and board.

Wow, could a $125k single mom with 1 kid, a home valued at 345k, and a 310k mortgage balance get aid?

Yes at most DMV schools, but not 100%.