How many women here divorced primarily due to imbalanced, unsustainable home workload?

[Anonymous]

That is one reason rich multi-generational household works so well. Grandparent generation coordinate the outsourced stuff to serve everyone. All family members can pitch in however much they can. The parents can continue working without interruption and the kids grow up surrounded with family.

Cleaning, laundry, cooking, grocery, chauffeuring, party planning and catering, home remodelling, nanny, tutoring, landscaping...there is someone to coordinate that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife complained about the inequalities in the work around the house and with the kids. We are both physicians. I was not able or willing to do more with a busy surgery practice. I said either outsource it or stop working. She quit her practice as a pediatrician and our life is much improved. She is much happier and she did what she deep down wanted to do.

You gave her an ultimatum and are now re-labeling it as her independent decision. “What she deep down wanted”, my God. Men are really something. - Female physician

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m about to. We had a talk about it last night and H threw a fit saying I don’t appreciate the one time he cleaned up the yard.

Then I went to empty the dishwasher and he goes “why are you doing that??” Uh, because the dishes need to be unloaded and no one else will do it? Which p!ssed him off, he told me to get out of the kitchen, and made a huge deal by spending two hours cleaning the kitchen down to every last detail to prove I’m not the martyr I think I am.

UGH.

PP who quit. My DH used to do things exactly like this. He also would accuse me of doing make-work that even he acknowledges today were necessary kid tasks.

In my case I can say now he really *couldn’t* do more at home given the weight of his professional load. I grew up middle class and was really resistant to hiring out the level of stuff we needed to. He grew up UMC and didn’t understand why I was reacting like that. But even for things that just could not be outsourced, I think he got very defensive about it and refused to open his eyes to the reality of 1) how much life stuff just cannot be outsourced 2) how much I was doing. Because if he really saw it, he’d have to admit it was deeply unfair and accept that he was the bad guy in the dynamic, which is a big blow to anyone’s ego. If that’s what you have to convince your spouse of, that they are treating you very unfairly (and in my case that was also hobbling my career which I was just as ambitious about as him) well, that’s just a big pill to swallow.

DP.

I am curious about the things that cannot really be outsourced( other than hugging your kids and having deep conversations with them).

SO much life stuff can be outsourced. PP just wanted to be a martyr and now she's a stay at home one.

First world problem, but managing the help is time-consuming. I spend a lot of time working on directions for our nanny, preparing for our housekeeper, coordinating with our meal service and dry clean pickup/drop off, managing the landscaper, hiring a caterer for a party, organizing home repairs, etc. On top of a full-time job and parenting, it adds up.

Ok, sounds like you didn't have very good help. I spend very little time managing the above, but I've also moved on to different people/services when ones became too time-consuming or difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m about to. We had a talk about it last night and H threw a fit saying I don’t appreciate the one time he cleaned up the yard.

Then I went to empty the dishwasher and he goes “why are you doing that??” Uh, because the dishes need to be unloaded and no one else will do it? Which p!ssed him off, he told me to get out of the kitchen, and made a huge deal by spending two hours cleaning the kitchen down to every last detail to prove I’m not the martyr I think I am.

UGH.

PP who quit. My DH used to do things exactly like this. He also would accuse me of doing make-work that even he acknowledges today were necessary kid tasks.

In my case I can say now he really *couldn’t* do more at home given the weight of his professional load. I grew up middle class and was really resistant to hiring out the level of stuff we needed to. He grew up UMC and didn’t understand why I was reacting like that. But even for things that just could not be outsourced, I think he got very defensive about it and refused to open his eyes to the reality of 1) how much life stuff just cannot be outsourced 2) how much I was doing. Because if he really saw it, he’d have to admit it was deeply unfair and accept that he was the bad guy in the dynamic, which is a big blow to anyone’s ego. If that’s what you have to convince your spouse of, that they are treating you very unfairly (and in my case that was also hobbling my career which I was just as ambitious about as him) well, that’s just a big pill to swallow.

DP.

I am curious about the things that cannot really be outsourced( other than hugging your kids and having deep conversations with them).

SO much life stuff can be outsourced. PP just wanted to be a martyr and now she's a stay at home one.

Agree. Even a lot of the daily “mental load” with kids that another poster mentioned (remember a snack daily, field trip money) can be outsourced if you pay for a very experienced nanny, for example.

[Anonymous]

I don’t see how divorce is going to solve your home workload problem. It will make it worse!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I quit my job in basically that situation. It came down to one or the other and he was never going to make the professional changes. We were both in biglaw.

I don't get this Biglaw starts at 215k these days. So both of you were making atleast 500k, no.

With 100k in house help, you can pretty much outsource 75% of stuff. Why quit?

Things you can not outsource:

Mental accounting of you children. So, who reads the school emails and puts the necessary dates in the calendar? Who lines up day camps for the days they are off school? Who notices it's book fair week and puts money in the backpack? Who remembers the 5 year old needs a snack packed EVERY day? Who keeps track of what size clothing each of the kids wears? Who cleans out the drawers? Who buys the new clothes? Who makes sure they fit? Who figures out what to do with outgrown clothing? Who pays attention to summer camp registration? When it that? What weeks are we going on vacation? What week is their favorite camp held that they don't want to miss? When is the sign up for basketball? Do they need a well visit scheduled? Dentist? When was the last time we had a date night, I should book a sitter. Christmas is looming, time to start tracking what things the kids like and would enjoy. Time to book the special events and start planning visits and doing the gift buying.

AND ON AND ON.

You can outsource laundry and cleaning, sure. Food shopping, sort of. Cooking, maybe if you are very rich. But their is day to day minutia of running a house and having children that is NOT outsourceable, that often falls to moms. We are not better at this, but culturally we have been conditioned to do it. I just had a dad this morning, who is a lawyer, tell me he can't keep up with the school emails. It is not that hard to read the school emails! Do you ignore emails from co-workers? No, you read them, pull out what you need and delete. These are the same skills.

If you could outsource all of this, you are acknowledging that doing these things is A JOB, correct? A job that should pay money, right? So why is it only the mom's job? Men are capable, they just opt out. Women are screaming at the top of their lungs that they can't do it all and are desperate for help. And many men (not all!) will go rake the yard and then ask for a pat on the back. Do you see how that didn't address a single piece of the daily minutia?

It shouldn't be only moms who do it. My DH does, but he is maxed out salary wise at 200k, and I am just starting out after taking a mommy break.

You can bet that when we make a combined 500k and more, we are hiring a household manager to schedule camps, vacations, doctors' visits, pack snacks etc. We already talk about it. Lol.


I know female law firm partners who have household managers. It's actually crazy in your case to give up your career for a man who I'd that self centered. Well, unless you are independently wealthy.

10 years in biglaw later and I don’t know anyone who has actually realized your outsourcing fantasy. Maybe you know someone who found that kind of proactive help, but I don’t.

I honestly do know 2 big law female partners who have very effective household managers. I am surprised it's not more common.

At $30 per walk I cannot even find a dog walker who consistently walks the dog (they all consistently accept the pay, however!). Yet everyone thinks it's so easy to find an "amazing" nanny or household manager to do everything mom would do. Yeah, right....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is one reason rich multi-generational household works so well. Grandparent generation coordinate the outsourced stuff to serve everyone. All family members can pitch in however much they can. The parents can continue working without interruption and the kids grow up surrounded with family.

Cleaning, laundry, cooking, grocery, chauffeuring, party planning and catering, home remodelling, nanny, tutoring, landscaping...there is someone to coordinate that.

Have you been over to the Elder forum? Parents and in-laws have dementia, don't drive, need memory care, need Medicaid.
Or how about the Family forum? Parents and in-laws don't want to help with kids; want to be on phone or on Fox or nap. Expect to be served.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh? I was firmly seated on the gravy train by my DH who begged me to quit to be a SAHM. He is a great dad and wanted the very best for our children. Even by outsourcing household work, having a nanny, doing his part, juggling tasks - he knew that our kids were not getting the best.

So, he made sure that I was economically secure forever, we had a whole lot of insurance, and we hired whatever staff we needed, so that I could find it worthwhile to be a SAHM. He has continued to be a very engaged DH and dad even after all that. Yes, we have not earned as much as we could but he is sure having the last laugh among his dual income buddies who are having relationship or parenting issues.

Been married 35 years. I haven't worked for 20 years. Never going back to work. He will retire in 4 more years.

Why divorce over imbalanced home workload? It is a staffing issue, is it not? Not a problem. It is an expense.

Some women want careers for reasons other than money, and who wants to be beholden financially to a spouse? It’s 2025.

You seem to be very confused about what marriage is. Marriage is mainly a social and legal contract for kids, family, legal status and finances.

Live together without marriage. You will not be beholden financially to the partner. Why marry?

Similarly, there is zero reason for most people to have kids. You can have a wonderful life as a childless person.

Good for those women who wanted careers for reasons other than money. I was not a doctor saving lives. I was basically working in corporate America and I was working for money. I am sure most women and men in this country will quit in a second if they win several millions in a lottery.

What I find very interesting is that all the women who want careers for reasons other than money are usually moms with children. And the reason they want careers for reasons other than money is that they can't stand looking after their kids.
Even the title of this thread is probably talking about married moms, rather than married women who are in DINK relationships.

See I think that whole screed was written by the woman’s husband anyway. Either way, this person has some heavy duty internalized misogyny. And this gem: “The reason they want careeers for reasons other than money is that they can’t stand looking after their kids.” At the very least, this latest post means you chose the wrong profession. AND if you are a woman, you married your husband because he had a few million as you equated it to winning the lottery.
- working mom who teachers prek in a public school (I love my job AND being home with my own kids). I would cut back on hours and work in a private preschool, but not quit working if I won the lottery.

Not the PP you are responding to, but you obviously enjoy your job. Most people don't. It's just that most people need to work to live. Your post also makes clear that you would like to work less to spend more time with your kids, but you don't because you need the money. But there are tons of people in this thread who would have more than enough to for one parent to stop working, and yet the parents keep working full time. It really strikes me that these people would rather have more money than more time together as a family. That is sad.

Don't worry, no one cares that you're sad for them.

Some of us can work and be involved parents.

Not really, but if you need to believe that, good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see how divorce is going to solve your home workload problem. It will make it worse!

Not really for a few reasons in my case:

- a lot of the day to day resentment and lack of respect towards my clueless partner was gone
- we shared custody so 1) he had to grow up (though his mom was around a lot at first) and be a parent and homemaker himself and 2) I got some time to myself to regroup

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I quit my job in basically that situation. It came down to one or the other and he was never going to make the professional changes. We were both in biglaw.

I don't get this Biglaw starts at 215k these days. So both of you were making atleast 500k, no.

With 100k in house help, you can pretty much outsource 75% of stuff. Why quit?

Things you can not outsource:

Mental accounting of you children. So, who reads the school emails and puts the necessary dates in the calendar? Who lines up day camps for the days they are off school? Who notices it's book fair week and puts money in the backpack? Who remembers the 5 year old needs a snack packed EVERY day? Who keeps track of what size clothing each of the kids wears? Who cleans out the drawers? Who buys the new clothes? Who makes sure they fit? Who figures out what to do with outgrown clothing? Who pays attention to summer camp registration? When it that? What weeks are we going on vacation? What week is their favorite camp held that they don't want to miss? When is the sign up for basketball? Do they need a well visit scheduled? Dentist? When was the last time we had a date night, I should book a sitter. Christmas is looming, time to start tracking what things the kids like and would enjoy. Time to book the special events and start planning visits and doing the gift buying.

AND ON AND ON.

You can outsource laundry and cleaning, sure. Food shopping, sort of. Cooking, maybe if you are very rich. But their is day to day minutia of running a house and having children that is NOT outsourceable, that often falls to moms. We are not better at this, but culturally we have been conditioned to do it. I just had a dad this morning, who is a lawyer, tell me he can't keep up with the school emails. It is not that hard to read the school emails! Do you ignore emails from co-workers? No, you read them, pull out what you need and delete. These are the same skills.

If you could outsource all of this, you are acknowledging that doing these things is A JOB, correct? A job that should pay money, right? So why is it only the mom's job? Men are capable, they just opt out. Women are screaming at the top of their lungs that they can't do it all and are desperate for help. And many men (not all!) will go rake the yard and then ask for a pat on the back. Do you see how that didn't address a single piece of the daily minutia?

It shouldn't be only moms who do it. My DH does, but he is maxed out salary wise at 200k, and I am just starting out after taking a mommy break.

You can bet that when we make a combined 500k and more, we are hiring a household manager to schedule camps, vacations, doctors' visits, pack snacks etc. We already talk about it. Lol.


I know female law firm partners who have household managers. It's actually crazy in your case to give up your career for a man who I'd that self centered. Well, unless you are independently wealthy.

10 years in biglaw later and I don’t know anyone who has actually realized your outsourcing fantasy. Maybe you know someone who found that kind of proactive help, but I don’t.

I honestly do know 2 big law female partners who have very effective household managers. I am surprised it's not more common.

At $30 per walk I cannot even find a dog walker who consistently walks the dog (they all consistently accept the pay, however!). Yet everyone thinks it's so easy to find an "amazing" nanny or household manager to do everything mom would do. Yeah, right....

I have a consistent dog walker for $25/walk. Also a full-time nanny who transitioned to house manager when the kids were in school full-time. Also a gardener. A car cleaning service. A house cleaning service. And somehow I've never had trouble managing or keeping any of them for over a decade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh? I was firmly seated on the gravy train by my DH who begged me to quit to be a SAHM. He is a great dad and wanted the very best for our children. Even by outsourcing household work, having a nanny, doing his part, juggling tasks - he knew that our kids were not getting the best.

So, he made sure that I was economically secure forever, we had a whole lot of insurance, and we hired whatever staff we needed, so that I could find it worthwhile to be a SAHM. He has continued to be a very engaged DH and dad even after all that. Yes, we have not earned as much as we could but he is sure having the last laugh among his dual income buddies who are having relationship or parenting issues.

Been married 35 years. I haven't worked for 20 years. Never going back to work. He will retire in 4 more years.

Why divorce over imbalanced home workload? It is a staffing issue, is it not? Not a problem. It is an expense.

Some women want careers for reasons other than money, and who wants to be beholden financially to a spouse? It’s 2025.

You seem to be very confused about what marriage is. Marriage is mainly a social and legal contract for kids, family, legal status and finances.

Live together without marriage. You will not be beholden financially to the partner. Why marry?

Similarly, there is zero reason for most people to have kids. You can have a wonderful life as a childless person.

Good for those women who wanted careers for reasons other than money. I was not a doctor saving lives. I was basically working in corporate America and I was working for money. I am sure most women and men in this country will quit in a second if they win several millions in a lottery.

What I find very interesting is that all the women who want careers for reasons other than money are usually moms with children. And the reason they want careers for reasons other than money is that they can't stand looking after their kids.
Even the title of this thread is probably talking about married moms, rather than married women who are in DINK relationships.

See I think that whole screed was written by the woman’s husband anyway. Either way, this person has some heavy duty internalized misogyny. And this gem: “The reason they want careeers for reasons other than money is that they can’t stand looking after their kids.” At the very least, this latest post means you chose the wrong profession. AND if you are a woman, you married your husband because he had a few million as you equated it to winning the lottery.
- working mom who teachers prek in a public school (I love my job AND being home with my own kids). I would cut back on hours and work in a private preschool, but not quit working if I won the lottery.

Not the PP you are responding to, but you obviously enjoy your job. Most people don't. It's just that most people need to work to live. Your post also makes clear that you would like to work less to spend more time with your kids, but you don't because you need the money. But there are tons of people in this thread who would have more than enough to for one parent to stop working, and yet the parents keep working full time. It really strikes me that these people would rather have more money than more time together as a family. That is sad.

Don't worry, no one cares that you're sad for them.

Some of us can work and be involved parents.

Not really, but if you need to believe that, good luck.

Now that is sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is one reason rich multi-generational household works so well. Grandparent generation coordinate the outsourced stuff to serve everyone. All family members can pitch in however much they can. The parents can continue working without interruption and the kids grow up surrounded with family.

Cleaning, laundry, cooking, grocery, chauffeuring, party planning and catering, home remodelling, nanny, tutoring, landscaping...there is someone to coordinate that.

Have you been over to the Elder forum? Parents and in-laws have dementia, don't drive, need memory care, need Medicaid.
Or how about the Family forum? Parents and in-laws don't want to help with kids; want to be on phone or on Fox or nap. Expect to be served.

This is my experience. Everything is harder when a parent or an in-law visits. Adding my in-laws to our household would literally break me. I would divorce over it to get peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I quit my job in basically that situation. It came down to one or the other and he was never going to make the professional changes. We were both in biglaw.

I don't get this Biglaw starts at 215k these days. So both of you were making atleast 500k, no.

With 100k in house help, you can pretty much outsource 75% of stuff. Why quit?

Things you can not outsource:

Mental accounting of you children. So, who reads the school emails and puts the necessary dates in the calendar? Who lines up day camps for the days they are off school? Who notices it's book fair week and puts money in the backpack? Who remembers the 5 year old needs a snack packed EVERY day? Who keeps track of what size clothing each of the kids wears? Who cleans out the drawers? Who buys the new clothes? Who makes sure they fit? Who figures out what to do with outgrown clothing? Who pays attention to summer camp registration? When it that? What weeks are we going on vacation? What week is their favorite camp held that they don't want to miss? When is the sign up for basketball? Do they need a well visit scheduled? Dentist? When was the last time we had a date night, I should book a sitter. Christmas is looming, time to start tracking what things the kids like and would enjoy. Time to book the special events and start planning visits and doing the gift buying.

AND ON AND ON.

You can outsource laundry and cleaning, sure. Food shopping, sort of. Cooking, maybe if you are very rich. But their is day to day minutia of running a house and having children that is NOT outsourceable, that often falls to moms. We are not better at this, but culturally we have been conditioned to do it. I just had a dad this morning, who is a lawyer, tell me he can't keep up with the school emails. It is not that hard to read the school emails! Do you ignore emails from co-workers? No, you read them, pull out what you need and delete. These are the same skills.

If you could outsource all of this, you are acknowledging that doing these things is A JOB, correct? A job that should pay money, right? So why is it only the mom's job? Men are capable, they just opt out. Women are screaming at the top of their lungs that they can't do it all and are desperate for help. And many men (not all!) will go rake the yard and then ask for a pat on the back. Do you see how that didn't address a single piece of the daily minutia?

It shouldn't be only moms who do it. My DH does, but he is maxed out salary wise at 200k, and I am just starting out after taking a mommy break.

You can bet that when we make a combined 500k and more, we are hiring a household manager to schedule camps, vacations, doctors' visits, pack snacks etc. We already talk about it. Lol.


I know female law firm partners who have household managers. It's actually crazy in your case to give up your career for a man who I'd that self centered. Well, unless you are independently wealthy.

10 years in biglaw later and I don’t know anyone who has actually realized your outsourcing fantasy. Maybe you know someone who found that kind of proactive help, but I don’t.

I honestly do know 2 big law female partners who have very effective household managers. I am surprised it's not more common.

At $30 per walk I cannot even find a dog walker who consistently walks the dog (they all consistently accept the pay, however!). Yet everyone thinks it's so easy to find an "amazing" nanny or household manager to do everything mom would do. Yeah, right....

I have a consistent dog walker for $25/walk. Also a full-time nanny who transitioned to house manager when the kids were in school full-time. Also a gardener. A car cleaning service. A house cleaning service. And somehow I've never had trouble managing or keeping any of them for over a decade.

Do you also work full-time? I do, and have trouble managing all of our help on top of my career and running the kids around (I have to divide and conquer with our nanny several nights).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see how divorce is going to solve your home workload problem. It will make it worse!

Not really for a few reasons in my case:

- a lot of the day to day resentment and lack of respect towards my clueless partner was gone

Losing your resentment and lack of respect ain't gonna get the dishes done or the floor vacuumed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I quit my job in basically that situation. It came down to one or the other and he was never going to make the professional changes. We were both in biglaw.

I don't get this Biglaw starts at 215k these days. So both of you were making atleast 500k, no.

With 100k in house help, you can pretty much outsource 75% of stuff. Why quit?

Things you can not outsource:

Mental accounting of you children. So, who reads the school emails and puts the necessary dates in the calendar? Who lines up day camps for the days they are off school? Who notices it's book fair week and puts money in the backpack? Who remembers the 5 year old needs a snack packed EVERY day? Who keeps track of what size clothing each of the kids wears? Who cleans out the drawers? Who buys the new clothes? Who makes sure they fit? Who figures out what to do with outgrown clothing? Who pays attention to summer camp registration? When it that? What weeks are we going on vacation? What week is their favorite camp held that they don't want to miss? When is the sign up for basketball? Do they need a well visit scheduled? Dentist? When was the last time we had a date night, I should book a sitter. Christmas is looming, time to start tracking what things the kids like and would enjoy. Time to book the special events and start planning visits and doing the gift buying.

AND ON AND ON.

You can outsource laundry and cleaning, sure. Food shopping, sort of. Cooking, maybe if you are very rich. But their is day to day minutia of running a house and having children that is NOT outsourceable, that often falls to moms. We are not better at this, but culturally we have been conditioned to do it. I just had a dad this morning, who is a lawyer, tell me he can't keep up with the school emails. It is not that hard to read the school emails! Do you ignore emails from co-workers? No, you read them, pull out what you need and delete. These are the same skills.

If you could outsource all of this, you are acknowledging that doing these things is A JOB, correct? A job that should pay money, right? So why is it only the mom's job? Men are capable, they just opt out. Women are screaming at the top of their lungs that they can't do it all and are desperate for help. And many men (not all!) will go rake the yard and then ask for a pat on the back. Do you see how that didn't address a single piece of the daily minutia?

It shouldn't be only moms who do it. My DH does, but he is maxed out salary wise at 200k, and I am just starting out after taking a mommy break.

You can bet that when we make a combined 500k and more, we are hiring a household manager to schedule camps, vacations, doctors' visits, pack snacks etc. We already talk about it. Lol.


I know female law firm partners who have household managers. It's actually crazy in your case to give up your career for a man who I'd that self centered. Well, unless you are independently wealthy.

10 years in biglaw later and I don’t know anyone who has actually realized your outsourcing fantasy. Maybe you know someone who found that kind of proactive help, but I don’t.

I honestly do know 2 big law female partners who have very effective household managers. I am surprised it's not more common.

At $30 per walk I cannot even find a dog walker who consistently walks the dog (they all consistently accept the pay, however!). Yet everyone thinks it's so easy to find an "amazing" nanny or household manager to do everything mom would do. Yeah, right....

I have always struggled with this too. I can only outsource stuff I don’t care that much about like cleaning. Even still we have had one item of extremely high sentimental value damaged and my current person will sometimes eat weird stuff from our pantry (I don’t mind her having snacks but she finished something off that I would never have expected her to eat and my kids were super bummed. But she’s good (not the one who damaged the item) so I let it all go).

Outsourcing is not a panacea IMO. Often you pay a lot, get something worse than you would do yourself and still have to manage to some extent.

Anyone else noticed it’s relatively easy to outsource traditionally male jobs though? Lawn care is easy and plentiful. Car maintenance you just drop off and it’s done. We have had great luck with handymen and contractors. It’s the daily in the house stuff that is so hard to find help with.