UMC suburban college student lied about background to become prestigious Rhodes Scholar

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Someone here is weirdly obsessed with defending this woman. Maybe it's more than one poster, but the style and diction all seems to be coming from the same person. Get over it, ok? She got caught in a scam. In the scheme of things she's still just fine - she'll end up with at least one and probably 2 degree from an Ivy League school where she didn't have to pay a dime.


+1

That poster is completely fact-impervious. It’s bizarre.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Someone here is weirdly obsessed with defending this woman. Maybe it's more than one poster, but the style and diction all seems to be coming from the same person. Get over it, ok? She got caught in a scam. In the scheme of things she's still just fine - she'll end up with at least one and probably 2 degree from an Ivy League school where she didn't have to pay a dime.


Or Penn once again will be found at fault, which is the normal course of action for schools like Penn.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Someone here is weirdly obsessed with defending this woman. Maybe it's more than one poster, but the style and diction all seems to be coming from the same person. Get over it, ok? She got caught in a scam. In the scheme of things she's still just fine - she'll end up with at least one and probably 2 degree from an Ivy League school where she didn't have to pay a dime.


+1

That poster is completely fact-impervious. It’s bizarre.


Post a fact… have not seen any yet.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe this incident will prompt the Rhodes Scholar selection committee and others like them to reevaluate the essay process?

I know someone affiliated with the process who says each essay is better than the last when it comes to a personal sob story followed by extremely noble volunteerism. Academics aren’t the focus. Ethics aren’t considered. It’s poverty porn followed by overcoming adversity and giving back.

In short: none of the privileged or even average kids from Dcumlandia have a chance.

why would an average kid have a chance at a Rhodes scholarship?


I didn’t mean average in the academic sense. Rather: financially.

I literally know people who have served on the Rhodes selection committee among other similar prestigious scholarship/fellowship programs domestically and abroad. The essays are literally creative writing exercises meant to convey how hard you’ve had it and how selfless you have been after pulling yourself up by your bootstraps to do something amazing. Much of it is embellished. I mean, everyone can’t have been born on a battlefield to a one-armed teenager and raised in a barn yet somehow earn perfect test scores while inventing the cure for cancer.

The American approach to such essays is to demonstrate you’ve had it hard so the review committee feels pity followed by interest.

FTR, this sort of essay doesn’t work for such scholarships/fellowships abroad. Stiff upper lip and all that. They simply look at what you’ve achieved academically followed by what you’ve done. And, if your story sounds far fetched, it is recognized as creative writing.

Bottom line: none of your kids in Dcumlandia have a chance when selection committees prioritize kids born in abject poverty reared by terrible parents.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Has anyone zillowed the value of mom's home? I doubt she lives in a shanty.


I saw 3 different estimates: $660,000, $685,000, and $690,000 (rounded off for ease of use).


lol. That's a mansion in St Louis.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think the case is sad. As brilliant as she is, I really think she would have landed at a top school had she been honest about her background. Most kids at those schools come from privileged backgrounds anyway, but even saying that she came from privilege but found out how the other side lived when, after a dispute with her mom, she ended up in foster care for a year, would have been powerful.


What exactly did she say other that she was in foster care and aged out of foster care and had no guardian? You have not read her essay so you can’t say she was being untruthful. Neither Penn nor Rhodes has show that she wrote anything untruthful.


Did you read the filing? There are a number of quotes from her essay that are not truthful: that her bones were broken, that she knew all the police from the time she was 6yo. Quoting from page 69:

"Fierceton also provided this false narrative to gain acceptance into two different Penn Summer Abroad programs and a related fellowship program. In her essays, Fierceton wrote about “bouncing around the foster care system throughout my life.” She described herself as being a “child of the system.”

While I understand that the document is Penn's assertion, I highly doubt their quotes from her essays are inaccurate.


Neither of those statements are false. She was in duster care, she was a child of system and she was bounced around throughout her life.

Because the reader used their confirmed bias to read things that are not there does not make the statements false.


No, the confirmation bias is yours.

"Bouncing around throughout my life" does not mean one year at 17yo.

Saying you have multiple broken bones when you didn't is a lie.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Someone here is weirdly obsessed with defending this woman. Maybe it's more than one poster, but the style and diction all seems to be coming from the same person. Get over it, ok? She got caught in a scam. In the scheme of things she's still just fine - she'll end up with at least one and probably 2 degree from an Ivy League school where she didn't have to pay a dime.


+1

That poster is completely fact-impervious. It’s bizarre.


My bet is her and/or her mom have a google alert on their name(s).
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Someone here is weirdly obsessed with defending this woman. Maybe it's more than one poster, but the style and diction all seems to be coming from the same person. Get over it, ok? She got caught in a scam. In the scheme of things she's still just fine - she'll end up with at least one and probably 2 degree from an Ivy League school where she didn't have to pay a dime.


+1

That poster is completely fact-impervious. It’s bizarre.


Post a fact… have not seen any yet.

Just stop.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21174416-penn-answer
Begin reading at page 59 of this document. The narrative is quite interesting. It has to take some mental gymnastics to read the facts and find her worthy of defending.

The father is named Billy Terrell, an actor, accused, among other things, of pathological lying when he and the mom divorced. Hmm..


You do realize that the document you’re linking s not an objective report but the university’s attempt to defend itself. It not only is slanted but it whitewashes Penn’s role in all of this and acknowledges no wrongdoing on their part - as would be expected of an institution defending itself against serious allegations

My guess is that the truth in this matter lies somewhere between the positions that the 2 sides have staked out.


DP. Sure, it isn't objective. But the positions taken in it are detailed and supported by facts. When Penn refers to the lack of police records to support a statement Fierceton made about receiving threatening packages and letters, that is likely to be true. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that the underlying facts described by Penn have supporting evidence.

It is always telling in a civil dispute when one side has a lot of detail and alleged facts, and the other does not. Fierceton's filing is filled with a bunch of very grand allegations, but comparatively little in the way of citable facts. That is the opposite of the Penn filing.


Lack of police records is not Relevant. It does not disprove her claim.


Sigh, yes, it’s relevant. Honestly the weird Fierceton supporters in this thread are so obtuse.

Here is a primer for you: Fierceton filed suit against the university and certain administrators. She is alleging retaliation, claiming that Penn caused the loss of her Rhodes scholarship because they were unjustly retaliating against her for her involvement in the Driver suit, and seeking damages for that as well as for not granting her Master’s. To defend against the charge of retaliation, the university needs to show that it had good cause for its actions that were not retaliatory in nature. Therefore, the university needs to show that it had ample reason to distrust Fierceton, and to have gone down the path it did with respect to Rhodes. What the answer does is lay out all the facts that demonstrate that Fierceton was untruthful and misrepresented herself in her applications. The police records are relevant because it is a provable fact that shows that something Fierceton said was untrue. It’s just one fact in a constellation of facts that built up to a non-retaliatory justification of Penn’s actions.

The problem for Fierceton is that her credibility is at the very heart of this entire lawsuit. And her credibility does not look good now.


I don’t support Fierceton, I just point out obfuscation.

The rest is to;dr Blah , blah, blah

No police report is NOT proof that it did not happen and irrelevant. A police report that she falsely reported a threat is Perot, no police report is irrelevant.

They have NO PROOF, period.



You seem fundamentally and profoundly unclear on how litigation works. To help you with basics: it is up to Fierceton to prove that she was retaliated against in a court of law. Your ranting here is what is irrelevant.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think the case is sad. As brilliant as she is, I really think she would have landed at a top school had she been honest about her background. Most kids at those schools come from privileged backgrounds anyway, but even saying that she came from privilege but found out how the other side lived when, after a dispute with her mom, she ended up in foster care for a year, would have been powerful.


What exactly did she say other that she was in foster care and aged out of foster care and had no guardian? You have not read her essay so you can’t say she was being untruthful. Neither Penn nor Rhodes has show that she wrote anything untruthful.


Did you read the filing? There are a number of quotes from her essay that are not truthful: that her bones were broken, that she knew all the police from the time she was 6yo. Quoting from page 69:

"Fierceton also provided this false narrative to gain acceptance into two different Penn Summer Abroad programs and a related fellowship program. In her essays, Fierceton wrote about “bouncing around the foster care system throughout my life.” She described herself as being a “child of the system.”

While I understand that the document is Penn's assertion, I highly doubt their quotes from her essays are inaccurate.


Neither of those statements are false. She was in duster care, she was a child of system and she was bounced around throughout her life.

Because the reader used their confirmed bias to read things that are not there does not make the statements false.


No, the confirmation bias is yours.

"Bouncing around throughout my life" does not mean one year at 17yo.

Saying you have multiple broken bones when you didn't is a lie.



Yes a year can be throughout my life.

And she did not say “broken bones” she said “I was broken”.

Keep trying to twist her words.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe this incident will prompt the Rhodes Scholar selection committee and others like them to reevaluate the essay process?

I know someone affiliated with the process who says each essay is better than the last when it comes to a personal sob story followed by extremely noble volunteerism. Academics aren’t the focus. Ethics aren’t considered. It’s poverty porn followed by overcoming adversity and giving back.

In short: none of the privileged or even average kids from Dcumlandia have a chance.

why would an average kid have a chance at a Rhodes scholarship?


I didn’t mean average in the academic sense. Rather: financially.

I literally know people who have served on the Rhodes selection committee among other similar prestigious scholarship/fellowship programs domestically and abroad. The essays are literally creative writing exercises meant to convey how hard you’ve had it and how selfless you have been after pulling yourself up by your bootstraps to do something amazing. Much of it is embellished. I mean, everyone can’t have been born on a battlefield to a one-armed teenager and raised in a barn yet somehow earn perfect test scores while inventing the cure for cancer.

The American approach to such essays is to demonstrate you’ve had it hard so the review committee feels pity followed by interest.

FTR, this sort of essay doesn’t work for such scholarships/fellowships abroad. Stiff upper lip and all that. They simply look at what you’ve achieved academically followed by what you’ve done. And, if your story sounds far fetched, it is recognized as creative writing.

Bottom line: none of your kids in Dcumlandia have a chance when selection committees prioritize kids born in abject poverty reared by terrible parents.


Interesting. I know of one Rhodes winner who grew up in a stable middle class home with two high school teacher parents. Now I'm wondering how "creative" their essays were, if you catch my drift. And update: 20 years later they're a professional failure.
Anonymous
The burden of proof is on her, NOT UPenn.

IMO, her retaliation claim is unconvincing. The law suit and her role in it began before she was named a Rhodes Scholar. If she had been named a Rhodes Scholar,THEN became involved in a suit, and after that Penn began an investigation of the statements made in her Rhodes application, then maybe it could be argued that she has a colorable claim that Penn's actions were motivated by retaliation. But here, she was named a Rhodes Scholar AFTER she became involved.

I think it's apparent that it was the anonymous email and the multiple phone calls saying she misrepresented her background which prompted Penn's actions.

Moreover, it's the Rhodes Trust which had the power to withhold the scholarship, not Penn. Nothing suggests that Penn told the Rhodes Trust about the law suit and nothing suggests that the law suit played any role in the Trust's actions.

Moreover, again Penn didn't revoke her Rhodes. The Rhodes Trust did. It's not even clear that it's Penn's notification to the Rhodes Trust which prompted the Trust's investigation. The Trust received the same anonymous email UPenn did. That might have been enough for the Trust to investigate. Rather than responding to the Trust's report, she chose to withdraw from the proceedings. I think she blew any claim she had by doing that. It's analogous to resigning from a job when you're notified that there's an investigation as to whether you embezzled money from the company. You can't then turn around and claim wrongful termination.


Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe this incident will prompt the Rhodes Scholar selection committee and others like them to reevaluate the essay process?

I know someone affiliated with the process who says each essay is better than the last when it comes to a personal sob story followed by extremely noble volunteerism. Academics aren’t the focus. Ethics aren’t considered. It’s poverty porn followed by overcoming adversity and giving back.

In short: none of the privileged or even average kids from Dcumlandia have a chance.

why would an average kid have a chance at a Rhodes scholarship?


I didn’t mean average in the academic sense. Rather: financially.

I literally know people who have served on the Rhodes selection committee among other similar prestigious scholarship/fellowship programs domestically and abroad. The essays are literally creative writing exercises meant to convey how hard you’ve had it and how selfless you have been after pulling yourself up by your bootstraps to do something amazing. Much of it is embellished. I mean, everyone can’t have been born on a battlefield to a one-armed teenager and raised in a barn yet somehow earn perfect test scores while inventing the cure for cancer.

The American approach to such essays is to demonstrate you’ve had it hard so the review committee feels pity followed by interest.

FTR, this sort of essay doesn’t work for such scholarships/fellowships abroad. Stiff upper lip and all that. They simply look at what you’ve achieved academically followed by what you’ve done. And, if your story sounds far fetched, it is recognized as creative writing.

Bottom line: none of your kids in Dcumlandia have a chance when selection committees prioritize kids born in abject poverty reared by terrible parents.


Interesting. I know of one Rhodes winner who grew up in a stable middle class home with two high school teacher parents. Now I'm wondering how "creative" their essays were, if you catch my drift. And update: 20 years later they're a professional failure.


FTR: I think the race/poverty porn essay thing is relatively new within the last couple decades. I know some Rhodes Scholars who are north of 50, and they came from UMC/affluent backgrounds.
Anonymous
It is PENNs burden to prove she lied. They said publically she lied. They told Rhodes scholarship committee she lied. If they can’t prove she lied it slander.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Maybe this incident will prompt the Rhodes Scholar selection committee and others like them to reevaluate the essay process?

I know someone affiliated with the process who says each essay is better than the last when it comes to a personal sob story followed by extremely noble volunteerism. Academics aren’t the focus. Ethics aren’t considered. It’s poverty porn followed by overcoming adversity and giving back.

In short: none of the privileged or even average kids from Dcumlandia have a chance.

why would an average kid have a chance at a Rhodes scholarship?


I didn’t mean average in the academic sense. Rather: financially.

I literally know people who have served on the Rhodes selection committee among other similar prestigious scholarship/fellowship programs domestically and abroad. The essays are literally creative writing exercises meant to convey how hard you’ve had it and how selfless you have been after pulling yourself up by your bootstraps to do something amazing. Much of it is embellished. I mean, everyone can’t have been born on a battlefield to a one-armed teenager and raised in a barn yet somehow earn perfect test scores while inventing the cure for cancer.

The American approach to such essays is to demonstrate you’ve had it hard so the review committee feels pity followed by interest.

FTR, this sort of essay doesn’t work for such scholarships/fellowships abroad. Stiff upper lip and all that. They simply look at what you’ve achieved academically followed by what you’ve done. And, if your story sounds far fetched, it is recognized as creative writing.

Bottom line: none of your kids in Dcumlandia have a chance when selection committees prioritize kids born in abject poverty reared by terrible parents.


No, it is not meant to be a creative writing essay and it is not supposed to be embellished.

Pg 70:

According to Rhodes: “Institutions or students who submit work that isn’t an honest reflection of the applicant will damage their credibility and undermine their chance (or that of their applicants) to receive a Scholarship. We disqualify applicants when we discover inaccurate or materially exaggerated claims; we will do the same if we learn of violations of our personal statement rules.”

And from the application itself:
https://www.rhodeshouse.ox.ac.uk/media/46018/information-for-candidates-usa.pdf

"Your personal statement should be wholly accurate and a fair representation of your story, written in your own
words from your own perspective. Material misrepresentation will result in disqualification of an application
and, where appropriate, the rescinding of a scholarship. It should be entirely your own work, with no assistance
received. Through the online application form you will be asked to confirm that the entered / uploaded personal
statement is accurate, is your own work and that no external help was given in its creation or editing."
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