Anonymous wrote:Virtually everything Hamas does, in fighting against Israel, is a war crime and immoral.
Hamas has done rocket strikes . They aren’t a war crime because they don’t do much damage or kill mass amounts of people to quantify as war crime .
Hamas only has one war crime to their name in 30 years and that’s 10/7.
Israel has hundreds of war crimes before there was even war -pre-10/7. Killing journalists , arresting minors indefinitely without charge, allowing settlers to settle illegally outside of the borders of Israel and harrass, evict, and kill civilians are all acts of war.
It’s just that Hamas isn’t dumb enough to strike right after Israel killed Christian American journalist Shireen Abu Aqleh or raided the Al Aqsa Mosque . Israel is always on high alert and cracks down on Palestinians right after an incident . Hamas wanted to get Israel by surprise when nothing was going on the same way Palestinians in the West Bank were caught by surprise and killed when nothing was going on. That poor woman was killed while on the air doing a report. She’s a mother from New Jersey and Israel lied and said they didn’t do it and even killed people at her funeral. Was it all worth it to bully the West Bank ?
Now they are going to be worse than Hamas in five years after Abbas dies.
Israel makes foolish mistake after mistake . Obama warned Bibi years ago to keep the peace in the West Bank so Hamas will die out on own.
Hamas doesn’t have the albatross around its neck in my estimation even if 100k Gazans die. The greatest power is influence and Israel loses more popularity and control over the narrative the more it continues on the war . At this point, the only thing to let Israel win back public opinion is another Hamas
Attack on Israel to justify an extended war on the part of Israel. Hamas has if you noticed stop bombing Israel . It’s not because they don’t have rockets. It’s because they want to play the woe is me card to the world and it’s sadly working
Hamas Embedding within civilian infrastructure in the manner they do is a War Crime. Firing rockets at civilians is a War Crime. Hijacking humanitarian aid, as alleged, is a War Crime. Using hospitals, mosques, schools, for military purposes is a War Crime. The list goes on. Pretty certain they are low on rockets. Out of them? No. Israel found 30,000 Hamas weapons in the north.
I’m a DP and you’re correct.
But all you’ve proven is that both sides have committed war crimes. That doesn’t absolve either side.
Zero proof of Israeli war crimes.
White Phosphorus causes fourth degree burns up to 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit which means it can burn through flesh and bone and disintegrate bone within second and has been used by Israel in Lebanon and Gaza predominantly on infants and children.
The use of white phosphorus is a war crime. It burns and is worse than what the Nazis used . It’s horrendous to do that rather than fight a real ground wars that’s the only way to actually fight Hamas. They went on the ground in Israel. Israel couldve went on the ground in Gaza. It’s literally the size of Manhattan. It’s tiny
Denied illegal use by Israel. And news alert! Israel is "on the ground" in the Strip called Gaza.
Yes, it is common for people charged with crimes to deny them. European doctors observed its use by Israel against civilians previously.
It has legal and illegal uses. Again, they deny it.
And, again, many things have illegal and legal uses, and many people deny the illegal ones. Do you think many drivers when pulled over say “yes officer I was doing 85mph?”
Israel is hoping if it denies all allegations that subsequent investigations won’t uncover all of them. It’s not an irrational strategy. Plenty of the British and Norwegian doctors may be killed before their evidence is fully available to the international community. Then it’s just he said/he said.
Anonymous wrote:Hi all. I have a question but I don’t want to ask publicly because it might be dumb. I do not understand why the Palestinians - at a minimum the women and children - cannot be relocated to a refugee camp?
It seems to me we all can agree that Palestinian children are INNOCENT. Can the other countries not work together to create and transport them to a refugee camp, maybe in Egypt or Lebanon? It’s nuts that children are still in harms way.
First, and unfortunately, we can’t all seem to agree that Palestinian children are innocent. That’s why theres so much vocal defense of the bombing of civilian infrastructure/indiscriminate killing.
But the reason they cannot all be “transported” to Egypt or Lebanon is because they would never be allowed to return to Gaza or the West Bank. They would become permanently stateless. Forcible deportation is a war crime (goes by the name of “ethnic cleansing”) and while the Israeli government is pushing hard for such cleansing to take place, the neighboring states are not willing to be party to a war crime.
So it’s best to leave them in harms way? Interestingly most countries offered Ukrainians a way out of Ukraine, knowing that most likely they will never return to the occupied areas. Such an idiotic argument, we would rather let them die …
Ukrainian refugees were never at risk of statelessness. Making someone stateless is a pretty big deal. There are UN conventions on it.
More than half of Gaza is under 18. Meaning you’re talking about a million refugees. Where does the money come to feed, house, educate, and provide medical care for a million children? Lebanon is a financial mess and Egypt isn’t doing much better— so who pays?
Personally as a taxpayer I’d rather we stop funding the bombs. Then we don’t need to fund a new war crime either.
Doesn’t answer the question of why it’s better to let them stay in harms way. UN and the rest of the world was already spending billions of dollars on Gaza annually. That money can be rerouted to the actual refugee camps .
It’s better for them not to be in harms way. There is no doubt.
But there’s no option to evacuate them. Lebanon doesn’t share a border with Gaza, and Israel insists on vetting every single person out of Rafah. Israel could set up a refugee camp for them in Israel, as they are the sole beneficiaries of ethnic cleansing in Gaza, but there’s no reason for Egypt or Lebanon to help commit a war crime.
There is no Israel at the Radha crossing. Egypt has actively participated in Gaza blockade. Egypt does not want Palestinians. Clearly Israel is not going to take them. Seems like the Muslim brothers could do more to help. They just don’t want to . Let’s call a spade what it is, a spade.
Israel asked Egypt to open the Sinai to the refugees, Egypt said no.
You break, you pay. It’s Israel’s problem. I hear they are asking Congo, all while asking people to sign up for prime beachfront real estate in Gaza. Something about gods promise or whatever.
Israel is not " asking" the Congo and Rawanda to take the Palestinians they are forceably displacing - they are blackmailing and bribing just like they tried ot pressure Egypt by offering to buy and cancel their trillions of debt ( if only ) they would just open the Rafah border on cue as the IDF tried to force Palestinians across the border
They are not " negotiating " in private they are bullying in private- that is why they are being outed
It will be , instead, the whole world seeing the ugly truth of what Israel has allowed itself to become
It is an interesting insight into the loss of U.S. prestige and influence that countries are coming out publicly to discuss the efforts Israel is putting in to ethnic cleansing. I think ten or twenty years ago this would have been swept under the rug.
Anonymous wrote:Virtually everything Hamas does, in fighting against Israel, is a war crime and immoral.
Hamas has done rocket strikes . They aren’t a war crime because they don’t do much damage or kill mass amounts of people to quantify as war crime .
Hamas only has one war crime to their name in 30 years and that’s 10/7.
Israel has hundreds of war crimes before there was even war -pre-10/7. Killing journalists , arresting minors indefinitely without charge, allowing settlers to settle illegally outside of the borders of Israel and harrass, evict, and kill civilians are all acts of war.
It’s just that Hamas isn’t dumb enough to strike right after Israel killed Christian American journalist Shireen Abu Aqleh or raided the Al Aqsa Mosque . Israel is always on high alert and cracks down on Palestinians right after an incident . Hamas wanted to get Israel by surprise when nothing was going on the same way Palestinians in the West Bank were caught by surprise and killed when nothing was going on. That poor woman was killed while on the air doing a report. She’s a mother from New Jersey and Israel lied and said they didn’t do it and even killed people at her funeral. Was it all worth it to bully the West Bank ?
Now they are going to be worse than Hamas in five years after Abbas dies.
Israel makes foolish mistake after mistake . Obama warned Bibi years ago to keep the peace in the West Bank so Hamas will die out on own.
Hamas doesn’t have the albatross around its neck in my estimation even if 100k Gazans die. The greatest power is influence and Israel loses more popularity and control over the narrative the more it continues on the war . At this point, the only thing to let Israel win back public opinion is another Hamas
Attack on Israel to justify an extended war on the part of Israel. Hamas has if you noticed stop bombing Israel . It’s not because they don’t have rockets. It’s because they want to play the woe is me card to the world and it’s sadly working
Hamas Embedding within civilian infrastructure in the manner they do is a War Crime. Firing rockets at civilians is a War Crime. Hijacking humanitarian aid, as alleged, is a War Crime. Using hospitals, mosques, schools, for military purposes is a War Crime. The list goes on. Pretty certain they are low on rockets. Out of them? No. Israel found 30,000 Hamas weapons in the north.
I’m a DP and you’re correct.
But all you’ve proven is that both sides have committed war crimes. That doesn’t absolve either side.
Zero proof of Israeli war crimes.
White Phosphorus causes fourth degree burns up to 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit which means it can burn through flesh and bone and disintegrate bone within second and has been used by Israel in Lebanon and Gaza predominantly on infants and children.
The use of white phosphorus is a war crime. It burns and is worse than what the Nazis used . It’s horrendous to do that rather than fight a real ground wars that’s the only way to actually fight Hamas. They went on the ground in Israel. Israel couldve went on the ground in Gaza. It’s literally the size of Manhattan. It’s tiny
Denied illegal use by Israel. And news alert! Israel is "on the ground" in the Strip called Gaza.
Yes, it is common for people charged with crimes to deny them. European doctors observed its use by Israel against civilians previously.
It has legal and illegal uses. Again, they deny it.
And, again, many things have illegal and legal uses, and many people deny the illegal ones. Do you think many drivers when pulled over say “yes officer I was doing 85mph?”
Israel is hoping if it denies all allegations that subsequent investigations won’t uncover all of them. It’s not an irrational strategy. Plenty of the British and Norwegian doctors may be killed before their evidence is fully available to the international community. Then it’s just he said/he said.
Or they deny it because they did not use it illegally.
Anonymous wrote:Btw, that also decreases the number of civilians killed. So maybe genocide might be a reach.
"Genocide" has always been a reach. But then again, it's not a reach to people who deny that 6 million Jews were systematically and deliberately killed by the Nazis.
Yes, the Holocaust happened unfortunately, but almost everyone responsible for this atrocity is dead today. Hopefully, as Americans anyway, we have learned from this and move on and try and realize that most American nonJews born after WWII, in my experience anyway, harbor no hatred or prejudice toward Jews, they’re indifferent, they don’t even realize who is jewish or not. It’s not a topic of conversation for most American non jewish people, it’s a nonissue. I have jewish friends who I didn’t even reaize were jewish initially, they live productive comfortable lives here in the US.
In case you missed it, there has been a huge increase in antisemitic incidents in the U.S.
There's a huge increase in all kinds of -isms in the US - Jews aren't special in the hatred they get.
There's an increase in pro-Palestinian sentiment and a backlash against Zionism. Neither of these is necessarily antisemitic in the sense of being anti-Jewish, but they are widely interpreted as the same thing. Sadly, there are increases in genuine antisemitic and Islamophobic incidents. Regarding the latter, there was the case of the 6yo Muslim boy stabbed to death and his mother injured, and the shooting of three Muslim students, one of whom is now paralyzed.
Was this in the US?
Yes. The 6yo Palestinian American boy was stabbed 26 times last October by his landlord in Plainfield, IL. He died. His mother was stabbed a dozen times and survived. Detectives determined the attack was predicated on their being Muslim. Three college students (one each from Haverford, Trinity, and Brown) of Palestinian descent were shot in Vermont last November. They were wearing keffiyeh scarves at the time and conversing in both English and Arabic. The 20yo student from Brown is now paralyzed from the chest down. American Muslims say the spike in Islamophobic incidents since October 7 is reminiscent of the post-9/11 period.
Is that anything to compare to the living hell Jewish people in the US are currently having to endure as they watch posters of their beloved hostages defaced and defiles by brutal, heartless pro-Hamas terrorists? As they hear the crazy left calling for their genocide through ceasefire? As they are persecuted in the halls of their universities as the leaders of their schools go in front of congress to spew hate towards Jews to rapturous applause?
Do not try to claim anti-Muslim sentiment is even slightly comparable to the anti-semi Tim’s faced by the Jewish people. Period.
Are you trying to be ironic? Yes, being stabbed to death when you are six years old or shot or shot and paralyzed when you're 20 is a heck of a lot worse than seeing pictures of hostages defaced. Given the choice, I think most of us would prefer to watch an image being defiled than to be stabbed to death or shot and paralyzed. I mean, that's a no-brainer.
Also, calls for a ceasefire are NOT calls for Jewish genocide. They are calls to PREVENT Palestinian genocide. Gaza is virtually uninhabitable, Palestinian children are being butchered in their thousands, and starvation and disease are killing innocent Palestinians. Why would anyone with an ounce of humanity NOT call for a ceasefire?
I also don't see anyone "spewing hate" towards Jews. The criticism is partly of Zionism, but more specifically of Israel's absolutely barbaric behavior in Gaza and in the West Bank.
Only a pathological narcissist with a master race complex would think the incidents you describe are worse than the brutal attacks I described. Have you absolutely no empathy or compassion for Palestinians or people of Palestinian descent? I am frankly shocked and disgusted by your Islamophobia and your astonishingly jaw-dropping sense of entitlement.
You listed two incidents in which Muslims were killed/injured. They may be tragic, but that does not even scratch the surface of the pain and suffering of the Jewish people.
To YOU watching hateful bigots who pray for the genocide of the Jewish people rip down the posters of our beloved hostages might not be traumatic, because you are clearly a Hamas supporter. But for Jewish Americans, watching people we once believed to be friends deface the images placed so carefully and thoughtfully to commemorate the beautiful Israelis stolen from us is deeply traumatic, and would constitute an act of pure, unadulterated terrorism against the Jewish people. For the Jewish people, it is like they were stolen again when we witness such unadulterated hatred towards their memory.
And yes, calling for a ceasefire is akin to calling for the genocide of all Jews. Hamas’ sole goal is the complete genocide of all Jews globally, they will never abide by any ceasefire. Calling for a ceasefire does nothing but strip Israel of its rights to self defense against the ongoing genocide of its people. Additionally, calling for a ceasefire is calling for the genocide of the Palestinian people, as should Israel remove their troops, they will also have to end their humanitarian mission to remove the genocidal Hamas from power in Gaza.
And yes, Jewish students are being brutalized on college campuses by pro-genocide/pro-Hamas protesters.
Please stop trying to equate isolated anti-muslim crimes with the extreme levels of anti-Semitic hate all Jews are currently facing. It’s disgusting you would even compare the two.
You said that it was worse for Jewish people to see images of hostages being defaced than it was for a 6yo child to die in a particularly terrifying and painful way (stabbing) or for a 20yo college kid to be shot and paralyzed. That tells me everything that I need to know about your racism. You obviously think your feelings are more important than Muslim kids' survival or ability to walk.
Having just outed yourself as a self-absorbed, self-loving tender blossom who values your feelings above the life of a 6yo child, you then exhibit stunning irrationality by claiming I'm a "Hamas supporter" for pointing out Islamophobic cruelty. And you insist that good people protesting for a ceasefire to save lives in Gaza must want "Jewish genocide."
Do you seriously have so little humanity and compassion that you cannot see the good in people who want to stop horrific suffering in Gaza and are therefore calling for a ceasefire? And can you possibly be so extraordinarily narcissistic that the stabbing death of a real life child means less to you than your feelings about images (not human) being defaced (not stabbed)??? It's hard to understand, but you actually seem to feel insulted that anyone is talking about Islamophobia and these horrible attacks on young Muslims because it diverts attention from you and your issues. Like I said, pathological narcissism.
You gave two tragic examples of people being attacked and murdered. Of course they are tragic, and I wish they never happened, but my point that the sheer scale of the anti-semitism being displayed in the US currently is far greater than two isolated incidents of hate. All over the country Jews are absolutely terrified, are absolutely distraught as their friends, neighbors, and even neighbors turn against them and as their government refuses to protect them. I do not know a single Jew who currently feels safe, who feels like they are not targeted by people who would rather support Hamas than the brave men and women of the IDF.
If you want to play that, “which side has been brutally murdered more” game, which is highly inappropriate, here are just a few of the Jewish Americans who were murdered recently due to the current wave of anti-semitism, which you certainly ignored:
If you want to call for peace, call for Hamas to surrender unconditionally and for their leaders to immediately surrender themselves so Israel can try them for their crimes and execute those found guilty. It is not Israel’s duty to let Hamas commit genocide against both the Jewish people and innocent Palestinians.
Earlier, you said, "You listed two incidents in which Muslims were killed/injured. They may be tragic, but that does not even scratch the surface of the pain and suffering of the Jewish people."
You seem determined to claim that Jewish suffering is worse than anyone else's suffering. When you look at what is going on in Gaza right now and the horrible tragedies of a 6yo stabbed to death and three young men shot, one of whom is now paralyzed from the chest down, perhaps you can see why this seems incredibly self-focused.
Not all Jewish people feel unsafe. My kids' have many Jewish friends, young people in their early twenties, who say they do not feel threatened by anti-Semitism. They are the most vehemently, vocally anti-Zionist people I know and are out there protesting. Paradigms, they are a-changing.
If you conflate Zionism with Judaism or if you're a Zionist, I'm sure it feels very uncomfortable to hear Zionist atrocities being called out and to witness the rage and disgust so many people feel toward Israel, but that pain is a necessary part of growth. As the Allies gained control of Europe toward the end of WW2, US troops marched German villagers through Buchenwald and other concentration camps. It must have been very unpleasant for the Germans, but it helped them understand what they might have been passively supporting. Zionist supporters with a conscience are no doubt going through a similar awakening as Israel's barbaric and racist behavior unfolds for the world to see.
Anonymous wrote:Virtually everything Hamas does, in fighting against Israel, is a war crime and immoral.
Hamas has done rocket strikes . They aren’t a war crime because they don’t do much damage or kill mass amounts of people to quantify as war crime .
Hamas only has one war crime to their name in 30 years and that’s 10/7.
Israel has hundreds of war crimes before there was even war -pre-10/7. Killing journalists , arresting minors indefinitely without charge, allowing settlers to settle illegally outside of the borders of Israel and harrass, evict, and kill civilians are all acts of war.
It’s just that Hamas isn’t dumb enough to strike right after Israel killed Christian American journalist Shireen Abu Aqleh or raided the Al Aqsa Mosque . Israel is always on high alert and cracks down on Palestinians right after an incident . Hamas wanted to get Israel by surprise when nothing was going on the same way Palestinians in the West Bank were caught by surprise and killed when nothing was going on. That poor woman was killed while on the air doing a report. She’s a mother from New Jersey and Israel lied and said they didn’t do it and even killed people at her funeral. Was it all worth it to bully the West Bank ?
Now they are going to be worse than Hamas in five years after Abbas dies.
Israel makes foolish mistake after mistake . Obama warned Bibi years ago to keep the peace in the West Bank so Hamas will die out on own.
Hamas doesn’t have the albatross around its neck in my estimation even if 100k Gazans die. The greatest power is influence and Israel loses more popularity and control over the narrative the more it continues on the war . At this point, the only thing to let Israel win back public opinion is another Hamas
Attack on Israel to justify an extended war on the part of Israel. Hamas has if you noticed stop bombing Israel . It’s not because they don’t have rockets. It’s because they want to play the woe is me card to the world and it’s sadly working
Hamas Embedding within civilian infrastructure in the manner they do is a War Crime. Firing rockets at civilians is a War Crime. Hijacking humanitarian aid, as alleged, is a War Crime. Using hospitals, mosques, schools, for military purposes is a War Crime. The list goes on. Pretty certain they are low on rockets. Out of them? No. Israel found 30,000 Hamas weapons in the north.
I’m a DP and you’re correct.
But all you’ve proven is that both sides have committed war crimes. That doesn’t absolve either side.
Zero proof of Israeli war crimes.
White Phosphorus causes fourth degree burns up to 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit which means it can burn through flesh and bone and disintegrate bone within second and has been used by Israel in Lebanon and Gaza predominantly on infants and children.
The use of white phosphorus is a war crime. It burns and is worse than what the Nazis used . It’s horrendous to do that rather than fight a real ground wars that’s the only way to actually fight Hamas. They went on the ground in Israel. Israel couldve went on the ground in Gaza. It’s literally the size of Manhattan. It’s tiny
Denied illegal use by Israel. And news alert! Israel is "on the ground" in the Strip called Gaza.
Yes, it is common for people charged with crimes to deny them. European doctors observed its use by Israel against civilians previously.
It has legal and illegal uses. Again, they deny it.
And, again, many things have illegal and legal uses, and many people deny the illegal ones. Do you think many drivers when pulled over say “yes officer I was doing 85mph?”
Israel is hoping if it denies all allegations that subsequent investigations won’t uncover all of them. It’s not an irrational strategy. Plenty of the British and Norwegian doctors may be killed before their evidence is fully available to the international community. Then it’s just he said/he said.
It's not that hard to deny them when the "evidence" being produced isn't even IDF, the video is turning out to be from Russians using incendiary weapons on civilians and residential areas in Bakhmut and other Ukrainian cities.
If there's so much evidence of Israel's supposed war crimes, then why do the Hamas propagandist keep having to fake it with "borrowed footage" and photos that aren't even from Gaza?
Anonymous wrote:If there's so much evidence of Israel's supposed war crimes, then why do the Hamas propagandist keep having to fake it with "borrowed footage" and photos that aren't even from Gaza?
I dunno, why did Israel's first lady blamed Hamas for "cutting up a pregnant woman and stabbing her fetus" with the footage from 2017 Mexico cartel? Boggles the mind. It is a big unexplained mystery of nature.
From Jerusalem Post, “UN experts on Monday demanded accountability for sexual violence against Israeli civilians during the Oct. 7 Hamas attacks, saying that mounting evidence of rapes and genital mutilation point to possible crimes against humanity.”
Anonymous wrote:If there's so much evidence of Israel's supposed war crimes, then why do the Hamas propagandist keep having to fake it with "borrowed footage" and photos that aren't even from Gaza?
I dunno, why did Israel's first lady blamed Hamas for "cutting up a pregnant woman and stabbing her fetus" with the footage from 2017 Mexico cartel? Boggles the mind. It is a big unexplained mystery of nature.
Except nobody in this thread is currently talking about that photo as supposed evidence of Hamas atrocities, yet here YOU are, falsely touting footage of Russian atrocities in Ukraine as supposed IDF atrocities. That's a big deflection fail. The big unexplained mystery of nature is the one about the argument you thought would work - but doesn't.
Anonymous wrote:If there's so much evidence of Israel's supposed war crimes, then why do the Hamas propagandist keep having to fake it with "borrowed footage" and photos that aren't even from Gaza?
I dunno, why did Israel's first lady blamed Hamas for "cutting up a pregnant woman and stabbing her fetus" with the footage from 2017 Mexico cartel? Boggles the mind. It is a big unexplained mystery of nature.
Except nobody in this thread is currently talking about that photo as supposed evidence of Hamas atrocities, yet here YOU are, falsely touting footage of Russian atrocities in Ukraine as supposed IDF atrocities. That's a big deflection fail. The big unexplained mystery of nature is the one about the argument you thought would work - but doesn't.
I think you’re confusing posters.
I am the person who said European doctors had evidence of prior use of WP by Israel. Not the Russian disinformation. Human Rights watch and others called it out during Operation Cast Lead and Israel admitted it during court hearings.
So, I think it’s more likely that Israel repeated a prior action that they denied doing in the first instance than that they were using it wholly legally this times. Maybe I’m wrong. But past behavior is the best predictor of ongoing behavior, not what am IDF spokesman says
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