Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Times of Israel reports today:

"The IDF responds to reports of the deaths of two Palestinian journalists in an Israeli airstrike the Gaza Strip earlier today, saying the pair, working for Al Jazeera, were in a vehicle with a terror operative who was operating a drone.

In response to a query on the matter, the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit tells The Times of Israel that a military aircraft “identified and struck a terrorist who operated an aircraft in a way that put IDF forces at risk.”"

Well they would say that, wouldn't they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The violence against Muslims in this country that was aforementioned… The 6 year old, his mother, and the 3 college friends is horrible. None of these acts were perpetrated by Jews, btw.

But please don’t say there has been no increase in antisemitism. The ugliness is everywhere. Including in Yonkers NY where a Jewish HS ( The Leffell School) basketball team was playing Roosevelt HS.

They had to stop the game because the players on Roosevelt’s team were roughing them up and playing violently. They also shouted antisemitic slurs.

It seems that one of the slurs they shouted was “Free Palestine” during the game, while another one was “I’m pro-Hamas you f%#^*ing Jew”. Let’s just see if they suffer any consequences.

https://twitter.com/tararosenblum/status/1744019690412777848?s=46&t=XhMk6KgBaubAd8DNh_wEeQ

Please post a video of the game so others can evaluate the allegations of roughness (a mike may or may not have picked up verbal comments). Otherwise, there's no proof here, just allegations against a team composed primarily of minority students.

dp. per the NY Post, the coach was "canned" and a player "booted off" the team. apology issued. kinda, sorta, maybe, sorta indicates that the the horrifying statements happened.

Honestly, are American jewish people ever accused of hate crimes, or very very rarely? If not, why not?

What constitutes a horrifying statement? Are most kids able to adequately gauge the gravity of such a horrific statement? What is adequate punishment for a child who utters horrifying statements? Because they need consequences but what exactly?

Being a kid is a mitigating factor, but it is up to adults to train them and ensure they behave decently. As punishment, I would suggest suspension for several games and some sensitivity training that would, one hopes, lead them to understand the hurt they caused and to issue a sincere apology. Ideally, especially for kids, consequences should be focused on helping people to reform rather than punishing them.

I have forced my kid to apologize but then she says something rude and offensive the following week. Things I have never taught her. She will be hated by society of this keeps up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The violence against Muslims in this country that was aforementioned… The 6 year old, his mother, and the 3 college friends is horrible. None of these acts were perpetrated by Jews, btw.

But please don’t say there has been no increase in antisemitism. The ugliness is everywhere. Including in Yonkers NY where a Jewish HS ( The Leffell School) basketball team was playing Roosevelt HS.

They had to stop the game because the players on Roosevelt’s team were roughing them up and playing violently. They also shouted antisemitic slurs.

It seems that one of the slurs they shouted was “Free Palestine” during the game, while another one was “I’m pro-Hamas you f%#^*ing Jew”. Let’s just see if they suffer any consequences.

https://twitter.com/tararosenblum/status/1744019690412777848?s=46&t=XhMk6KgBaubAd8DNh_wEeQ

“Free Palestine” is not a slur. The fact that you think so is a show of Zionist fragility. Because Palestine is not free, it’s occupied and that is a fact. Even if it hurts your feelings.

Gaza sure was not occupied. Hamas drove it into hell.

lol ok tell DoS please since they interpret occupation differently:

"The Occupied Territories, which include the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, are subject to the jurisdiction of Israel and the Palestinian Authority (PA), with the division of responsibilities overlapping in much of the territory. "
https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-report-on-international-religious-freedom/israel-and-the-occupied-territories/israel-and-the-occupied-territories-the-occupied-territories/#:~:text=The%20Occupied%20Territories%2C%20which%20include,in%20much%20of%20the%20territory.

You think you can just go by what "feels occupied" and not by actual definition of occupation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing against Jewish Americans at all, I just fail to see where their issues take precedence over any other oppressed American.

I would also point out for many, many, many Jewish Americans “their issue” here is actually stopping the U.S. enabling this bloodbath. That’s why rabbis keep getting arrested at these protests. They are people of conscience and I hope when this is in the rear view mirror people take a moment to reflect on the moral courage it took.

People who pretend to be Jewish, but do not fully and unconditionally support Israel, are not Jewish.

Those so-called “Rabbis” may use the word, but real Jews know they are little more then anti-Semitic pro-Hamas terrorists.

Wow…seems like some brainwashing going on here, that’s a bit extreme. So, who determines if one is actually Jewish then, you?

It’s not hard at all. Either you unconditionally support and praise Israel’s humanitarian mission in Gaza, or you support Hamas in its genocidal mission against Jewish people all over the world.

No middle ground.

The released hostages and the families of the hostages are calling for negotiation with Hamas, criticizing the conduct of the IDF and Netanyahu, and describing their experiences in Gaza enduring IDF bombing as anything but “humanitarian”.

So tell me. You think the hostages are Hamas supporters?

Stockholm syndrome is a well known condition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome#:~:text=Stockholm%20syndrome%20is%20a%20proposed,%2C%20kidnapping%2C%20and%20abusive%20relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Times of Israel reports today:

"The IDF responds to reports of the deaths of two Palestinian journalists in an Israeli airstrike the Gaza Strip earlier today, saying the pair, working for Al Jazeera, were in a vehicle with a terror operative who was operating a drone.

In response to a query on the matter, the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit tells The Times of Israel that a military aircraft “identified and struck a terrorist who operated an aircraft in a way that put IDF forces at risk.”"

Well they would say that, wouldn't they?

That is what they said, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing against Jewish Americans at all, I just fail to see where their issues take precedence over any other oppressed American.

I would also point out for many, many, many Jewish Americans “their issue” here is actually stopping the U.S. enabling this bloodbath. That’s why rabbis keep getting arrested at these protests. They are people of conscience and I hope when this is in the rear view mirror people take a moment to reflect on the moral courage it took.

People who pretend to be Jewish, but do not fully and unconditionally support Israel, are not Jewish.

Those so-called “Rabbis” may use the word, but real Jews know they are little more then anti-Semitic pro-Hamas terrorists.

Wow…seems like some brainwashing going on here, that’s a bit extreme. So, who determines if one is actually Jewish then, you?

It’s not hard at all. Either you unconditionally support and praise Israel’s humanitarian mission in Gaza, or you support Hamas in its genocidal mission against Jewish people all over the world.

No middle ground.

The released hostages and the families of the hostages are calling for negotiation with Hamas, criticizing the conduct of the IDF and Netanyahu, and describing their experiences in Gaza enduring IDF bombing as anything but “humanitarian”.

So tell me. You think the hostages are Hamas supporters?

Stockholm syndrome is a well known condition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome#:~:text=Stockholm%20syndrome%20is%20a%20proposed,%2C%20kidnapping%2C%20and%20abusive%20relationships.

Then why are the families hostages still in Gaza calling for negotiated settlement? Hard to have Stockholm syndrome when you’re not a hostage…?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing against Jewish Americans at all, I just fail to see where their issues take precedence over any other oppressed American.

I would also point out for many, many, many Jewish Americans “their issue” here is actually stopping the U.S. enabling this bloodbath. That’s why rabbis keep getting arrested at these protests. They are people of conscience and I hope when this is in the rear view mirror people take a moment to reflect on the moral courage it took.

People who pretend to be Jewish, but do not fully and unconditionally support Israel, are not Jewish.

Those so-called “Rabbis” may use the word, but real Jews know they are little more then anti-Semitic pro-Hamas terrorists.

Wow…seems like some brainwashing going on here, that’s a bit extreme. So, who determines if one is actually Jewish then, you?

It’s not hard at all. Either you unconditionally support and praise Israel’s humanitarian mission in Gaza, or you support Hamas in its genocidal mission against Jewish people all over the world.

No middle ground.

The released hostages and the families of the hostages are calling for negotiation with Hamas, criticizing the conduct of the IDF and Netanyahu, and describing their experiences in Gaza enduring IDF bombing as anything but “humanitarian”.

So tell me. You think the hostages are Hamas supporters?

Stockholm syndrome is a well known condition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome#:~:text=Stockholm%20syndrome%20is%20a%20proposed,%2C%20kidnapping%2C%20and%20abusive%20relationships.

It’s remarkable to me how fast the pendulum swung from “how could someone possible commit the crime of tearing down a hostage poster/why aren’t you “Hamas supporters” calling for the release of the hostages/why isn’t Michelle Obama calling for the release of the hostages!” To “whatever you do, Do Not listen to what the hostages are saying.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The violence against Muslims in this country that was aforementioned… The 6 year old, his mother, and the 3 college friends is horrible. None of these acts were perpetrated by Jews, btw.

But please don’t say there has been no increase in antisemitism. The ugliness is everywhere. Including in Yonkers NY where a Jewish HS ( The Leffell School) basketball team was playing Roosevelt HS.

They had to stop the game because the players on Roosevelt’s team were roughing them up and playing violently. They also shouted antisemitic slurs.

It seems that one of the slurs they shouted was “Free Palestine” during the game, while another one was “I’m pro-Hamas you f%#^*ing Jew”. Let’s just see if they suffer any consequences.

https://twitter.com/tararosenblum/status/1744019690412777848?s=46&t=XhMk6KgBaubAd8DNh_wEeQ

“Free Palestine” is not a slur. The fact that you think so is a show of Zionist fragility. Because Palestine is not free, it’s occupied and that is a fact. Even if it hurts your feelings.

Gaza sure was not occupied. Hamas drove it into hell.

lol ok tell DoS please since they interpret occupation differently:

"The Occupied Territories, which include the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, are subject to the jurisdiction of Israel and the Palestinian Authority (PA), with the division of responsibilities overlapping in much of the territory. "
https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-report-on-international-religious-freedom/israel-and-the-occupied-territories/israel-and-the-occupied-territories-the-occupied-territories/#:~:text=The%20Occupied%20Territories%2C%20which%20include,in%20much%20of%20the%20territory.

You think you can just go by what "feels occupied" and not by actual definition of occupation?

I mean, Israel withdrew from Gaza almost 20 years ago. Hamas was elected as Gazans' representative and drove Fatah away. So I am not sure what the reference to the PA is. Israel took measures regarding Gaza because, well, like, Hamas is Israel's sworn enemy and took terrorist actions to that effect. Hamas took Gaza and turned it into an autocratic hell scape.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do American jewish children ever judge other people who look different than them or ever make off color remarks? Because I know despite what I teach my child at home they tend to say very offensive things sometimes much to my chagrin.

are you trying to say that the harassment at the game was the Jews' own fault?
Just like 10/7?

No, not at all. I am curious because I have heard my child make off color remarks about all different types of people, my child is a tween though and neurodiverse. But I worry about her offending people as well as her safety. She has no filter. Does anyone else have this experience with their kids? Or just me?

Me too. I also have a neurodiverse child who, until she was about six, would make inappropriate comments in a loud piercing voice. These included remarking rather obsessively on the size of some poor woman's posterior, announcing that the man behind us in line at a grocery store was "pregnant" (he had a bit of a pot belly), and asking why another child had such "dark skin -- it's almost black." According to the parenting books I've read, one should use these moments for teaching compassion, but I was always so overwhelmed with embarrassment that I would apologize and rush off as fast as I could. I would, however, work with her at home to try to help her understand how her comments might make other people feel. As a teen, she is now more careful not to blurt things out. My neurotypical children automatically knew not to make insensitive comments, even when they were toddlers. I think people understand if your child is either young or obviously neurodiverse, but the comments must still sting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw, that also decreases the number of civilians killed. So maybe genocide might be a reach.

"Genocide" has always been a reach. But then again, it's not a reach to people who deny that 6 million Jews were systematically and deliberately killed by the Nazis.

Yes, the Holocaust happened unfortunately, but almost everyone responsible for this atrocity is dead today. Hopefully, as Americans anyway, we have learned from this and move on and try and realize that most American nonJews born after WWII, in my experience anyway, harbor no hatred or prejudice toward Jews, they’re indifferent, they don’t even realize who is jewish or not. It’s not a topic of conversation for most American non jewish people, it’s a nonissue. I have jewish friends who I didn’t even reaize were jewish initially, they live productive comfortable lives here in the US.

In case you missed it, there has been a huge increase in antisemitic incidents in the U.S.

There's a huge increase in all kinds of -isms in the US - Jews aren't special in the hatred they get.

There's an increase in pro-Palestinian sentiment and a backlash against Zionism. Neither of these is necessarily antisemitic in the sense of being anti-Jewish, but they are widely interpreted as the same thing. Sadly, there are increases in genuine antisemitic and Islamophobic incidents. Regarding the latter, there was the case of the 6yo Muslim boy stabbed to death and his mother injured, and the shooting of three Muslim students, one of whom is now paralyzed.

Was this in the US?

Yes. The 6yo Palestinian American boy was stabbed 26 times last October by his landlord in Plainfield, IL. He died. His mother was stabbed a dozen times and survived. Detectives determined the attack was predicated on their being Muslim. Three college students (one each from Haverford, Trinity, and Brown) of Palestinian descent were shot in Vermont last November. They were wearing keffiyeh scarves at the time and conversing in both English and Arabic. The 20yo student from Brown is now paralyzed from the chest down. American Muslims say the spike in Islamophobic incidents since October 7 is reminiscent of the post-9/11 period.

Is that anything to compare to the living hell Jewish people in the US are currently having to endure as they watch posters of their beloved hostages defaced and defiles by brutal, heartless pro-Hamas terrorists? As they hear the crazy left calling for their genocide through ceasefire? As they are persecuted in the halls of their universities as the leaders of their schools go in front of congress to spew hate towards Jews to rapturous applause?

Do not try to claim anti-Muslim sentiment is even slightly comparable to the anti-semi Tim’s faced by the Jewish people. Period.

Are you trying to be ironic? Yes, being stabbed to death when you are six years old or shot or shot and paralyzed when you're 20 is a heck of a lot worse than seeing pictures of hostages defaced. Given the choice, I think most of us would prefer to watch an image being defiled than to be stabbed to death or shot and paralyzed. I mean, that's a no-brainer.

Also, calls for a ceasefire are NOT calls for Jewish genocide. They are calls to PREVENT Palestinian genocide. Gaza is virtually uninhabitable, Palestinian children are being butchered in their thousands, and starvation and disease are killing innocent Palestinians. Why would anyone with an ounce of humanity NOT call for a ceasefire?

I also don't see anyone "spewing hate" towards Jews. The criticism is partly of Zionism, but more specifically of Israel's absolutely barbaric behavior in Gaza and in the West Bank.

Only a pathological narcissist with a master race complex would think the incidents you describe are worse than the brutal attacks I described. Have you absolutely no empathy or compassion for Palestinians or people of Palestinian descent? I am frankly shocked and disgusted by your Islamophobia and your astonishingly jaw-dropping sense of entitlement.

You listed two incidents in which Muslims were killed/injured. They may be tragic, but that does not even scratch the surface of the pain and suffering of the Jewish people.

To YOU watching hateful bigots who pray for the genocide of the Jewish people rip down the posters of our beloved hostages might not be traumatic, because you are clearly a Hamas supporter. But for Jewish Americans, watching people we once believed to be friends deface the images placed so carefully and thoughtfully to commemorate the beautiful Israelis stolen from us is deeply traumatic, and would constitute an act of pure, unadulterated terrorism against the Jewish people. For the Jewish people, it is like they were stolen again when we witness such unadulterated hatred towards their memory.

And yes, calling for a ceasefire is akin to calling for the genocide of all Jews. Hamas’ sole goal is the complete genocide of all Jews globally, they will never abide by any ceasefire. Calling for a ceasefire does nothing but strip Israel of its rights to self defense against the ongoing genocide of its people. Additionally, calling for a ceasefire is calling for the genocide of the Palestinian people, as should Israel remove their troops, they will also have to end their humanitarian mission to remove the genocidal Hamas from power in Gaza.

And yes, Jewish students are being brutalized on college campuses by pro-genocide/pro-Hamas protesters.

https://nypost.com/2023/12/15/news/jewish-mit-students-say-college-didnt-stop-yearlong-campaign-of-hate/amp/

https://nypost.com/2023/12/09/news/jewish-upenn-students-subjected-to-chants-of-we-are-hamas/amp/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/critics-say-us-colleges-double-standards-let-rabid-antisemitism-thrive-on-campus/amp/

Please stop trying to equate isolated anti-muslim crimes with the extreme levels of anti-Semitic hate all Jews are currently facing. It’s disgusting you would even compare the two.

You said that it was worse for Jewish people to see images of hostages being defaced than it was for a 6yo child to die in a particularly terrifying and painful way (stabbing) or for a 20yo college kid to be shot and paralyzed. That tells me everything that I need to know about your racism. You obviously think your feelings are more important than Muslim kids' survival or ability to walk.

Having just outed yourself as a self-absorbed, self-loving tender blossom who values your feelings above the life of a 6yo child, you then exhibit stunning irrationality by claiming I'm a "Hamas supporter" for pointing out Islamophobic cruelty. And you insist that good people protesting for a ceasefire to save lives in Gaza must want "Jewish genocide."

Do you seriously have so little humanity and compassion that you cannot see the good in people who want to stop horrific suffering in Gaza and are therefore calling for a ceasefire? And can you possibly be so extraordinarily narcissistic that the stabbing death of a real life child means less to you than your feelings about images (not human) being defaced (not stabbed)??? It's hard to understand, but you actually seem to feel insulted that anyone is talking about Islamophobia and these horrible attacks on young Muslims because it diverts attention from you and your issues. Like I said, pathological narcissism.

You gave two tragic examples of people being attacked and murdered. Of course they are tragic, and I wish they never happened, but my point that the sheer scale of the anti-semitism being displayed in the US currently is far greater than two isolated incidents of hate. All over the country Jews are absolutely terrified, are absolutely distraught as their friends, neighbors, and even neighbors turn against them and as their government refuses to protect them. I do not know a single Jew who currently feels safe, who feels like they are not targeted by people who would rather support Hamas than the brave men and women of the IDF.

If you want to play that, “which side has been brutally murdered more” game, which is highly inappropriate, here are just a few of the Jewish Americans who were murdered recently due to the current wave of anti-semitism, which you certainly ignored:

* Samantha Woll - Detroit Jewish Leader murdered in her own home: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12917901/amp/Detroit-Samantha-Woll-stabbed-EIGHT-times-face-neck.html

* Paul Kessler - Elderly Jewish counter protester brutally beaten at a Pro-Hamas protest in California: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/17/us/paul-kessler-death-arrest-court-appearance/index.html

You don’t have to take my word for it, the brutal rise in anti-demotion following October 7th is widely documented and accepted:

https://www.heritage.org/religious-liberty/commentary/the-inconvenient-facts-about-antisemitism-the-us

If you want to call for peace, call for Hamas to surrender unconditionally and for their leaders to immediately surrender themselves so Israel can try them for their crimes and execute those found guilty. It is not Israel’s duty to let Hamas commit genocide against both the Jewish people and innocent Palestinians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Times of Israel reports today:

"The IDF responds to reports of the deaths of two Palestinian journalists in an Israeli airstrike the Gaza Strip earlier today, saying the pair, working for Al Jazeera, were in a vehicle with a terror operative who was operating a drone.

In response to a query on the matter, the IDF Spokesperson’s Unit tells The Times of Israel that a military aircraft “identified and struck a terrorist who operated an aircraft in a way that put IDF forces at risk.”"

Well they would say that, wouldn't they?

That is what they said, yes.

LOL bc they would never say things like "we really hate that Al-Dahdouh guy but we can't kill him outright since that would be too much so we're just gonna shoot off his kids one by one and see if the dude gets the message and shuts his trap already."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The violence against Muslims in this country that was aforementioned… The 6 year old, his mother, and the 3 college friends is horrible. None of these acts were perpetrated by Jews, btw.

But please don’t say there has been no increase in antisemitism. The ugliness is everywhere. Including in Yonkers NY where a Jewish HS ( The Leffell School) basketball team was playing Roosevelt HS.

They had to stop the game because the players on Roosevelt’s team were roughing them up and playing violently. They also shouted antisemitic slurs.

It seems that one of the slurs they shouted was “Free Palestine” during the game, while another one was “I’m pro-Hamas you f%#^*ing Jew”. Let’s just see if they suffer any consequences.

https://twitter.com/tararosenblum/status/1744019690412777848?s=46&t=XhMk6KgBaubAd8DNh_wEeQ

Ok while abhorrent, those are words opposed to murder or attempted murder, it’s all disgusting. But while words having meaning and can cause pain, they’re words. These are still children, what consequences should those basketball players face? Should we banish them from society? Yes, that will surely help us long term. Yes, let’s banish or rid them from society for the wrong words they speak. Should they be imprisoned for life? What would be a suitable punishment? Not being snarky i am genuinely curious what punishment these kids should face.

DP. Anyone who has played a sport knows that there are rules of conduct that must be followed. Similarly, schools have conduct rules. So if this happened, it would be a school and/or team and/or league disciplinary matter. The alleged comment about Hamas is particularly chilling. Substitute any other minority group for “Jew” and, well, you know the calls for discipline would be echoing far and wide.

I agree these kids should be disciplined. It's important that they understand the effects of their words. You simply can't swear at someone about their ethnicity or religion without consequences. At my kids' high school, one of the kids dropped the F-bomb during a baseball game, and the coach pulled him out of the game immediately. The boy was swearing in frustration and not insulting anyone, but it was not tolerated. However, his team had to tolerate a lot of anti-Asian trash talk leading up to that, which the other team's coaches ignored. This is an important lesson that needs to be driven home.

I feel like pulling many kids out of one game wouldn’t be enough though. Kids are so bad these days. Mine included.

Sports culture can get very toxic, and the coaches and parents are sometimes worse than the kids. Professional tennis became much more civilized after the umpires began enforcing strict rules (warning, point penalty, game penalty, default). Hawkeye also put an end to the tantrums about bad calls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The violence against Muslims in this country that was aforementioned… The 6 year old, his mother, and the 3 college friends is horrible. None of these acts were perpetrated by Jews, btw.

But please don’t say there has been no increase in antisemitism. The ugliness is everywhere. Including in Yonkers NY where a Jewish HS ( The Leffell School) basketball team was playing Roosevelt HS.

They had to stop the game because the players on Roosevelt’s team were roughing them up and playing violently. They also shouted antisemitic slurs.

It seems that one of the slurs they shouted was “Free Palestine” during the game, while another one was “I’m pro-Hamas you f%#^*ing Jew”. Let’s just see if they suffer any consequences.

https://twitter.com/tararosenblum/status/1744019690412777848?s=46&t=XhMk6KgBaubAd8DNh_wEeQ

“Free Palestine” is not a slur. The fact that you think so is a show of Zionist fragility. Because Palestine is not free, it’s occupied and that is a fact. Even if it hurts your feelings.

Gaza sure was not occupied. Hamas drove it into hell.

lol ok tell DoS please since they interpret occupation differently:

"The Occupied Territories, which include the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, are subject to the jurisdiction of Israel and the Palestinian Authority (PA), with the division of responsibilities overlapping in much of the territory. "
https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-report-on-international-religious-freedom/israel-and-the-occupied-territories/israel-and-the-occupied-territories-the-occupied-territories/#:~:text=The%20Occupied%20Territories%2C%20which%20include,in%20much%20of%20the%20territory.

You think you can just go by what "feels occupied" and not by actual definition of occupation?

I mean, Israel withdrew from Gaza almost 20 years ago. Hamas was elected as Gazans' representative and drove Fatah away. So I am not sure what the reference to the PA is. Israel took measures regarding Gaza because, well, like, Hamas is Israel's sworn enemy and took terrorist actions to that effect. Hamas took Gaza and turned it into an autocratic hell scape.

I mean, there is an international definition of occupation and it may not coincide with stuff in your head.

Also, occupation is not only for the nice people. If you blockade/occupy folks you don't like, it still counts as blockade/occupation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw, that also decreases the number of civilians killed. So maybe genocide might be a reach.

"Genocide" has always been a reach. But then again, it's not a reach to people who deny that 6 million Jews were systematically and deliberately killed by the Nazis.

Yes, the Holocaust happened unfortunately, but almost everyone responsible for this atrocity is dead today. Hopefully, as Americans anyway, we have learned from this and move on and try and realize that most American nonJews born after WWII, in my experience anyway, harbor no hatred or prejudice toward Jews, they’re indifferent, they don’t even realize who is jewish or not. It’s not a topic of conversation for most American non jewish people, it’s a nonissue. I have jewish friends who I didn’t even reaize were jewish initially, they live productive comfortable lives here in the US.

In case you missed it, there has been a huge increase in antisemitic incidents in the U.S.

There's a huge increase in all kinds of -isms in the US - Jews aren't special in the hatred they get.

There's an increase in pro-Palestinian sentiment and a backlash against Zionism. Neither of these is necessarily antisemitic in the sense of being anti-Jewish, but they are widely interpreted as the same thing. Sadly, there are increases in genuine antisemitic and Islamophobic incidents. Regarding the latter, there was the case of the 6yo Muslim boy stabbed to death and his mother injured, and the shooting of three Muslim students, one of whom is now paralyzed.

Was this in the US?

Yes. The 6yo Palestinian American boy was stabbed 26 times last October by his landlord in Plainfield, IL. He died. His mother was stabbed a dozen times and survived. Detectives determined the attack was predicated on their being Muslim. Three college students (one each from Haverford, Trinity, and Brown) of Palestinian descent were shot in Vermont last November. They were wearing keffiyeh scarves at the time and conversing in both English and Arabic. The 20yo student from Brown is now paralyzed from the chest down. American Muslims say the spike in Islamophobic incidents since October 7 is reminiscent of the post-9/11 period.

Is that anything to compare to the living hell Jewish people in the US are currently having to endure as they watch posters of their beloved hostages defaced and defiles by brutal, heartless pro-Hamas terrorists? As they hear the crazy left calling for their genocide through ceasefire? As they are persecuted in the halls of their universities as the leaders of their schools go in front of congress to spew hate towards Jews to rapturous applause?

Do not try to claim anti-Muslim sentiment is even slightly comparable to the anti-semi Tim’s faced by the Jewish people. Period.

Are you trying to be ironic? Yes, being stabbed to death when you are six years old or shot or shot and paralyzed when you're 20 is a heck of a lot worse than seeing pictures of hostages defaced. Given the choice, I think most of us would prefer to watch an image being defiled than to be stabbed to death or shot and paralyzed. I mean, that's a no-brainer.

Also, calls for a ceasefire are NOT calls for Jewish genocide. They are calls to PREVENT Palestinian genocide. Gaza is virtually uninhabitable, Palestinian children are being butchered in their thousands, and starvation and disease are killing innocent Palestinians. Why would anyone with an ounce of humanity NOT call for a ceasefire?

I also don't see anyone "spewing hate" towards Jews. The criticism is partly of Zionism, but more specifically of Israel's absolutely barbaric behavior in Gaza and in the West Bank.

Only a pathological narcissist with a master race complex would think the incidents you describe are worse than the brutal attacks I described. Have you absolutely no empathy or compassion for Palestinians or people of Palestinian descent? I am frankly shocked and disgusted by your Islamophobia and your astonishingly jaw-dropping sense of entitlement.

You listed two incidents in which Muslims were killed/injured. They may be tragic, but that does not even scratch the surface of the pain and suffering of the Jewish people.

To YOU watching hateful bigots who pray for the genocide of the Jewish people rip down the posters of our beloved hostages might not be traumatic, because you are clearly a Hamas supporter. But for Jewish Americans, watching people we once believed to be friends deface the images placed so carefully and thoughtfully to commemorate the beautiful Israelis stolen from us is deeply traumatic, and would constitute an act of pure, unadulterated terrorism against the Jewish people. For the Jewish people, it is like they were stolen again when we witness such unadulterated hatred towards their memory.

And yes, calling for a ceasefire is akin to calling for the genocide of all Jews. Hamas’ sole goal is the complete genocide of all Jews globally, they will never abide by any ceasefire. Calling for a ceasefire does nothing but strip Israel of its rights to self defense against the ongoing genocide of its people. Additionally, calling for a ceasefire is calling for the genocide of the Palestinian people, as should Israel remove their troops, they will also have to end their humanitarian mission to remove the genocidal Hamas from power in Gaza.

And yes, Jewish students are being brutalized on college campuses by pro-genocide/pro-Hamas protesters.

https://nypost.com/2023/12/15/news/jewish-mit-students-say-college-didnt-stop-yearlong-campaign-of-hate/amp/

https://nypost.com/2023/12/09/news/jewish-upenn-students-subjected-to-chants-of-we-are-hamas/amp/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/critics-say-us-colleges-double-standards-let-rabid-antisemitism-thrive-on-campus/amp/

Please stop trying to equate isolated anti-muslim crimes with the extreme levels of anti-Semitic hate all Jews are currently facing. It’s disgusting you would even compare the two.

You said that it was worse for Jewish people to see images of hostages being defaced than it was for a 6yo child to die in a particularly terrifying and painful way (stabbing) or for a 20yo college kid to be shot and paralyzed. That tells me everything that I need to know about your racism. You obviously think your feelings are more important than Muslim kids' survival or ability to walk.

Having just outed yourself as a self-absorbed, self-loving tender blossom who values your feelings above the life of a 6yo child, you then exhibit stunning irrationality by claiming I'm a "Hamas supporter" for pointing out Islamophobic cruelty. And you insist that good people protesting for a ceasefire to save lives in Gaza must want "Jewish genocide."

Do you seriously have so little humanity and compassion that you cannot see the good in people who want to stop horrific suffering in Gaza and are therefore calling for a ceasefire? And can you possibly be so extraordinarily narcissistic that the stabbing death of a real life child means less to you than your feelings about images (not human) being defaced (not stabbed)??? It's hard to understand, but you actually seem to feel insulted that anyone is talking about Islamophobia and these horrible attacks on young Muslims because it diverts attention from you and your issues. Like I said, pathological narcissism.

You gave two tragic examples of people being attacked and murdered. Of course they are tragic, and I wish they never happened, but my point that the sheer scale of the anti-semitism being displayed in the US currently is far greater than two isolated incidents of hate. All over the country Jews are absolutely terrified, are absolutely distraught as their friends, neighbors, and even neighbors turn against them and as their government refuses to protect them. I do not know a single Jew who currently feels safe, who feels like they are not targeted by people who would rather support Hamas than the brave men and women of the IDF.

If you want to play that, “which side has been brutally murdered more” game, which is highly inappropriate, here are just a few of the Jewish Americans who were murdered recently due to the current wave of anti-semitism, which you certainly ignored:

* Samantha Woll - Detroit Jewish Leader murdered in her own home: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12917901/amp/Detroit-Samantha-Woll-stabbed-EIGHT-times-face-neck.html

* Paul Kessler - Elderly Jewish counter protester brutally beaten at a Pro-Hamas protest in California: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/17/us/paul-kessler-death-arrest-court-appearance/index.html

You don’t have to take my word for it, the brutal rise in anti-demotion following October 7th is widely documented and accepted:

https://www.heritage.org/religious-liberty/commentary/the-inconvenient-facts-about-antisemitism-the-us

If you want to call for peace, call for Hamas to surrender unconditionally and for their leaders to immediately surrender themselves so Israel can try them for their crimes and execute those found guilty. It is not Israel’s duty to let Hamas commit genocide against both the Jewish people and innocent Palestinians.

Samantha Will should not be on that list.

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Anonymous wrote:Btw, that also decreases the number of civilians killed. So maybe genocide might be a reach.

"Genocide" has always been a reach. But then again, it's not a reach to people who deny that 6 million Jews were systematically and deliberately killed by the Nazis.

Yes, the Holocaust happened unfortunately, but almost everyone responsible for this atrocity is dead today. Hopefully, as Americans anyway, we have learned from this and move on and try and realize that most American nonJews born after WWII, in my experience anyway, harbor no hatred or prejudice toward Jews, they’re indifferent, they don’t even realize who is jewish or not. It’s not a topic of conversation for most American non jewish people, it’s a nonissue. I have jewish friends who I didn’t even reaize were jewish initially, they live productive comfortable lives here in the US.

In case you missed it, there has been a huge increase in antisemitic incidents in the U.S.

There's a huge increase in all kinds of -isms in the US - Jews aren't special in the hatred they get.

There's an increase in pro-Palestinian sentiment and a backlash against Zionism. Neither of these is necessarily antisemitic in the sense of being anti-Jewish, but they are widely interpreted as the same thing. Sadly, there are increases in genuine antisemitic and Islamophobic incidents. Regarding the latter, there was the case of the 6yo Muslim boy stabbed to death and his mother injured, and the shooting of three Muslim students, one of whom is now paralyzed.

Was this in the US?

Yes. The 6yo Palestinian American boy was stabbed 26 times last October by his landlord in Plainfield, IL. He died. His mother was stabbed a dozen times and survived. Detectives determined the attack was predicated on their being Muslim. Three college students (one each from Haverford, Trinity, and Brown) of Palestinian descent were shot in Vermont last November. They were wearing keffiyeh scarves at the time and conversing in both English and Arabic. The 20yo student from Brown is now paralyzed from the chest down. American Muslims say the spike in Islamophobic incidents since October 7 is reminiscent of the post-9/11 period.

Is that anything to compare to the living hell Jewish people in the US are currently having to endure as they watch posters of their beloved hostages defaced and defiles by brutal, heartless pro-Hamas terrorists? As they hear the crazy left calling for their genocide through ceasefire? As they are persecuted in the halls of their universities as the leaders of their schools go in front of congress to spew hate towards Jews to rapturous applause?

Do not try to claim anti-Muslim sentiment is even slightly comparable to the anti-semi Tim’s faced by the Jewish people. Period.

Are you trying to be ironic? Yes, being stabbed to death when you are six years old or shot or shot and paralyzed when you're 20 is a heck of a lot worse than seeing pictures of hostages defaced. Given the choice, I think most of us would prefer to watch an image being defiled than to be stabbed to death or shot and paralyzed. I mean, that's a no-brainer.

Also, calls for a ceasefire are NOT calls for Jewish genocide. They are calls to PREVENT Palestinian genocide. Gaza is virtually uninhabitable, Palestinian children are being butchered in their thousands, and starvation and disease are killing innocent Palestinians. Why would anyone with an ounce of humanity NOT call for a ceasefire?

I also don't see anyone "spewing hate" towards Jews. The criticism is partly of Zionism, but more specifically of Israel's absolutely barbaric behavior in Gaza and in the West Bank.

Only a pathological narcissist with a master race complex would think the incidents you describe are worse than the brutal attacks I described. Have you absolutely no empathy or compassion for Palestinians or people of Palestinian descent? I am frankly shocked and disgusted by your Islamophobia and your astonishingly jaw-dropping sense of entitlement.

You listed two incidents in which Muslims were killed/injured. They may be tragic, but that does not even scratch the surface of the pain and suffering of the Jewish people.

To YOU watching hateful bigots who pray for the genocide of the Jewish people rip down the posters of our beloved hostages might not be traumatic, because you are clearly a Hamas supporter. But for Jewish Americans, watching people we once believed to be friends deface the images placed so carefully and thoughtfully to commemorate the beautiful Israelis stolen from us is deeply traumatic, and would constitute an act of pure, unadulterated terrorism against the Jewish people. For the Jewish people, it is like they were stolen again when we witness such unadulterated hatred towards their memory.

And yes, calling for a ceasefire is akin to calling for the genocide of all Jews. Hamas’ sole goal is the complete genocide of all Jews globally, they will never abide by any ceasefire. Calling for a ceasefire does nothing but strip Israel of its rights to self defense against the ongoing genocide of its people. Additionally, calling for a ceasefire is calling for the genocide of the Palestinian people, as should Israel remove their troops, they will also have to end their humanitarian mission to remove the genocidal Hamas from power in Gaza.

And yes, Jewish students are being brutalized on college campuses by pro-genocide/pro-Hamas protesters.

https://nypost.com/2023/12/15/news/jewish-mit-students-say-college-didnt-stop-yearlong-campaign-of-hate/amp/

https://nypost.com/2023/12/09/news/jewish-upenn-students-subjected-to-chants-of-we-are-hamas/amp/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/critics-say-us-colleges-double-standards-let-rabid-antisemitism-thrive-on-campus/amp/

Please stop trying to equate isolated anti-muslim crimes with the extreme levels of anti-Semitic hate all Jews are currently facing. It’s disgusting you would even compare the two.

You said that it was worse for Jewish people to see images of hostages being defaced than it was for a 6yo child to die in a particularly terrifying and painful way (stabbing) or for a 20yo college kid to be shot and paralyzed. That tells me everything that I need to know about your racism. You obviously think your feelings are more important than Muslim kids' survival or ability to walk.

Having just outed yourself as a self-absorbed, self-loving tender blossom who values your feelings above the life of a 6yo child, you then exhibit stunning irrationality by claiming I'm a "Hamas supporter" for pointing out Islamophobic cruelty. And you insist that good people protesting for a ceasefire to save lives in Gaza must want "Jewish genocide."

Do you seriously have so little humanity and compassion that you cannot see the good in people who want to stop horrific suffering in Gaza and are therefore calling for a ceasefire? And can you possibly be so extraordinarily narcissistic that the stabbing death of a real life child means less to you than your feelings about images (not human) being defaced (not stabbed)??? It's hard to understand, but you actually seem to feel insulted that anyone is talking about Islamophobia and these horrible attacks on young Muslims because it diverts attention from you and your issues. Like I said, pathological narcissism.

You gave two tragic examples of people being attacked and murdered. Of course they are tragic, and I wish they never happened, but my point that the sheer scale of the anti-semitism being displayed in the US currently is far greater than two isolated incidents of hate. All over the country Jews are absolutely terrified, are absolutely distraught as their friends, neighbors, and even neighbors turn against them and as their government refuses to protect them. I do not know a single Jew who currently feels safe, who feels like they are not targeted by people who would rather support Hamas than the brave men and women of the IDF.

If you want to play that, “which side has been brutally murdered more” game, which is highly inappropriate, here are just a few of the Jewish Americans who were murdered recently due to the current wave of anti-semitism, which you certainly ignored:

* Samantha Woll - Detroit Jewish Leader murdered in her own home: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12917901/amp/Detroit-Samantha-Woll-stabbed-EIGHT-times-face-neck.html

* Paul Kessler - Elderly Jewish counter protester brutally beaten at a Pro-Hamas protest in California: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/17/us/paul-kessler-death-arrest-court-appearance/index.html

You don’t have to take my word for it, the brutal rise in anti-demotion following October 7th is widely documented and accepted:

https://www.heritage.org/religious-liberty/commentary/the-inconvenient-facts-about-antisemitism-the-us

If you want to call for peace, call for Hamas to surrender unconditionally and for their leaders to immediately surrender themselves so Israel can try them for their crimes and execute those found guilty. It is not Israel’s duty to let Hamas commit genocide against both the Jewish people and innocent Palestinians.

You should know most people think of IDF as thugs and not as "brave men and women." Their TikToks speak for themselves.