Middle and high school on Capitol Hill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most depressing DCUM thread ever. So much potential wasted even as demographics change at breakneck speed. Couldn't believe what I saw at the mobbed new H St. Whole Foods over the weekend. Place was packed with young families.

spare me. all those families need to do is enroll their kids in the local schools. it's on them.

[Anonymous]

Right, right, with the MS PARCC pass rates in the teens and twenties and average SAT scores in the low 300s. You nailed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Right, right, with the MS PARCC pass rates in the teens and twenties and average SAT scores in the low 300s. You nailed it.

again, cry me a freakin river! you CHOSE to move IB for wheatley into your 700k flip. You can choose to go to the schools too. Roll up your sleeves or move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different poster. This thread has woken me up to the reality that this city could really use the International Baccalaureate equivalent of SWW. This application school could work as a school within a school program AT Walls. None of the established DCPS or DC Public Charter IB programs sound like they serve the best IBD students well.

Good luck with that. DCPS put IB at Eastern to attract Cap Hill families who said that's what would make them enroll. They didn't enroll. DCPS will -- and frankly should -- say that the Eqstern program would improve if the students came.

I don't think they will throw more money at IB, especially IB for 'the best' students. That's not the priority in a city with thousands of students at risk and performing well below grade level.

Yes, yes, nothing is a priority for DCPS but raising PARCC scores for low SES minority kids who need remediation. I don't expect DCPS to see the light--the leadership isn't modern, flexible, pragmatic, strong or visionary--but the demand is real and the possibilities to expand IBD to give the burbs a run for their money are boundless (without breaking the bank).

NP. Does anyone know what the % is that could potentially benefit from an accelerated curriculum--that is, kids from middle/high SES families--either on the Hill, by ward, or DC-wide? I agree that the city needs to first do what's best for the majority (i.e., disadvantaged youth who may be in more need of wrap-around services, help getting up to grade level, etc.). However, I don't know if that low SES majority is 80% or 51% of the population. If closer to the latter--or rapidly moving in that direction--then I think there's a stronger argument for implementing more rigorous curricula where needed in the city.

Would also be curious to know what the absolute numbers are, not just the kids in public schools, since there are undoubtedly middle/high SES families of all backgrounds who currently have kids in charters and privates, who could possibly move to public if sufficiently rigorous programs were in place.

-an AA parent who knows many other educated AA families in DC with kids in private and charters

[Anonymous]

For 10:03

OSSE releases a DC-wide annual report card, that aggregates demographics and reports on PARCC proficiency for all DCPS and charter school students (obviously it excludes home schooled or private school students) http://results.osse.dc.gov/state/DC

There are 87,343 total students in public and public charter schools in DC. 79% of those students are economically disadvantaged. Only 27% of all students are proficient or advanced in ELA and 25% in math.

For every grade level, no more than 30% of all students are proficient or advanced on PARCC in ELA; for math the high water mark is 37% proficient or advanced in math for all 3rd graders. http://results.osse.dc.gov/state/DC

If you just look only at the performance of non-economically disadvantaged students, the proficient and advanced numbers are 59% for ELA and 56% for math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, right, with the MS PARCC pass rates in the teens and twenties and average SAT scores in the low 300s. You nailed it.

again, cry me a freakin river! you CHOSE to move IB for wheatley into your 700k flip. You can choose to go to the schools too. Roll up your sleeves or move.

Maybe PP is the one who should move. Oh, you don't even live here. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different poster. This thread has woken me up to the reality that this city could really use the International Baccalaureate equivalent of SWW. This application school could work as a school within a school program AT Walls. None of the established DCPS or DC Public Charter IB programs sound like they serve the best IBD students well.

Good luck with that. DCPS put IB at Eastern to attract Cap Hill families who said that's what would make them enroll. They didn't enroll. DCPS will -- and frankly should -- say that the Eqstern program would improve if the students came.

I don't think they will throw more money at IB, especially IB for 'the best' students. That's not the priority in a city with thousands of students at risk and performing well below grade level.

Yes, yes, nothing is a priority for DCPS but raising PARCC scores for low SES minority kids who need remediation. I don't expect DCPS to see the light--the leadership isn't modern, flexible, pragmatic, strong or visionary--but the demand is real and the possibilities to expand IBD to give the burbs a run for their money are boundless (without breaking the bank).

NP. Does anyone know what the % is that could potentially benefit from an accelerated curriculum--that is, kids from middle/high SES families--either on the Hill, by ward, or DC-wide? I agree that the city needs to first do what's best for the majority (i.e., disadvantaged youth who may be in more need of wrap-around services, help getting up to grade level, etc.). However, I don't know if that low SES majority is 80% or 51% of the population. If closer to the latter--or rapidly moving in that direction--then I think there's a stronger argument for implementing more rigorous curricula where needed in the city.

Would also be curious to know what the absolute numbers are, not just the kids in public schools, since there are undoubtedly middle/high SES families of all backgrounds who currently have kids in charters and privates, who could possibly move to public if sufficiently rigorous programs were in place.

-an AA parent who knows many other educated AA families in DC with kids in private and charters

Not sure you're asking the right question, what % could potentially benefit from an "accelerated curriculum." You're might be better off asking, "If you build it, will they come?" and "How will expanding the DC tax base by attracting many more high earning parents hurt poor kids?" As we know from the Upper NW experience, and schools in gentrifying areas like Brent, Maury and Ross, those who "could potentially benefit" are coming.

When I was house hunting in the Brent and Maury Districts a decade ago, in high sales season (spring & fall) there were two dozen 3 or 4-bedroom renovated houses on the market in each of those districts for under 600K. No longer - such houses now go for at least 900K, and there aren't many on the market. Young families try to snatch up any well-priced house that's IB for Brent or Maury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eastern's IBD pass rate average points totals have been a little lower than Banneker's to date, but they're only about to graduate their third class of IBD students, with a dozen students in a cohort.

Enough of this PC silliness. Controlling for race and class alone doesn't get you a high-performing school. In an urban center, bona fide selective admissions combined with decent facilities, strong teaching and leadership,and a diverse student body (with many high SES families of all races involved) gets you a high-performing school.

Yes, DCI will be offering International Baccalaureate Diploma studies, but only IBD lite. IBD studies won't be required at DCI, so they won't have a critical mass of students to offer many Higher Level (1-2 years past AP) classes. Reading the tea leaves, I predict that their pass total will be in the high 20s for the first five years or so they graduate students. If you're shooting for the stars in college admissions (Ivies, Little Ivies, Georgetown, Stanford, military academies, Duke etc.) and you're white or Asian, you're going to need a points total of 40+.

I'm the PP who's years away. Thank you for posting and explaining the stats. I'm familiar with the AP system from my own education but am learning about IB and watching closely what happens with the various local programs.

The other thing to consider is that Eastern and Banneker offer both AP and IB courses.

DCI, on the other hand, will only offer IB.

The problem definitely isn't that DCI will only offer IB courses, it's that their IB courses are unlikely to be terribly rigorous (because so many of their students aren't really "full" IBD material). If a Hill kid can score 6s and 7s on IBD exams at either the Standard or Higher Levels, 4s and 5s on corresponding APs come easily. Go visit one of the MoCo of Fairfax IBD programs and chat with their in-house IB Coordinator if you want to learn more. These programs run IBD open houses.

Just curious- are they not really "full IBD Material" because they're Hispanic? Or are you disgusted by the fact that DCI has black kids?

I am absolutely for a Hill middle school and a rigorous test-in high school, but your statement is flat out racist. The DCI feeders are very strong (stronger than many Hill schools in fact), and since you dismissed most of them as "not IDB material" based on nothing... You're really just a revolting racist.

- Hispanic IB diploma holder who probably would have been dismissed by racist trash like PP, but actually scored only 6s and 7s.

Hello Hispanic IBD holder, I'm not white. Look at DCI's PARCC scores, in the aggregate and by sub-bgroup. Then visit any of the MoCo elementary immersion "feeder" schools sending kids on to Richard Montgomery (which boasts one of the highest IBD average points totals in the world, and is loaded with high-scoring Hispanics). Compare the DCI feeder and DCI itself to the MoCo programs. Take my point without the vitriol.

No, your point is still racist. Just because you're Asian (yes I know who you are now), doesn't allow you to dismiss students based on their race.

Furthermore I would not say Montgomery county isn't doing its part when it comes to Hispanics. They themselves came to this conclusion last year. I understand that you're irritated that Yu Ying doesn't take mandarin speakers (I get it!), but that's not something that's Yu Ying or DCIs fault.

Granted, but you're painting with too broad a brush. The low-income Hispanic students I attended Boston Latin, and my Ivy, with were impressive and I know a little bit about racism (having been called "chink" hundreds of times as a kid). If cities bother to identify academically advanced minority kids young to get them into GT programs, then ensure they have access to free, unlimited test prep, they can be well represented in MS and HS test-in magnet programs. As has been pointed out, Chicago's application system for test-in magnets is superior to MoCo's. Disagree that YY and the other DCI feeders aren't to blame for the lack of native speakers (which negatively impacts their IBD program results later). I've done research on the issue - the DCPC Board seems open to considering letting native speakers test in to replace upper grades drop-outs, tweaking their LEA arrangements, but the feeder schools have not teamed up to ask for this.

As has been explained HUNDREDS of times, the DCI feeders can't do this unless they obtain approval from CONGRESS.

And all the comments you've posted has been consistently racist and xenophobic. I get that you want a language preference for Yu Ying. I support that. But your "research" consists of trashing schools and painting black and Hispanic kids as undesirable. You disgust me, frankly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, right, with the MS PARCC pass rates in the teens and twenties and average SAT scores in the low 300s. You nailed it.

again, cry me a freakin river! you CHOSE to move IB for wheatley into your 700k flip. You can choose to go to the schools too. Roll up your sleeves or move.

It is the job of DCPS to better themselves and to attract families to their schools not the other way around. DCPS needs to figure out a way to truly meet the needs of students who are on grade level and above grade level since in class differentiation does not work with students who are many grade levels apart.

[Anonymous]

But if the choice is selling a home for $575k to a household that makes $200k and has no kids, versus $900k to a household that makes $300k and has 2 kids, DC might be better off with the former. Any increase in real estate transfer, property, sales, and income tax just isn't big enough to make up for the cost of educating 2 kids for 15 years each. Especially since property tax increases are capped at 10% a year, DINKs may spend more on theater tickets and restaurants and other high-revenue activities, and parents get certain tax breaks for having dependents.

DC's elected officials don't have much incentive to gentrify schools. It will limit access to those schools for people in poorer neighborhoods, thus hurting their base. The new residents aren't loyal to the existing political establishment. Moving in high-income families doesn't bring in much more revenue, if any. And the DC council set up a system where any excess revenue goes into rainy day funds (which are already huge and not available for ongoing needs, just emergencies) and towards income tax reductions. Highly educated parents with kids performing at or above grade level are just not a priority for DC.

[Anonymous]

Weird that DCPS doesn't care given that research shows poor kids do better when they attend schools with a mix of high performing students. Maintaining high poverty schools will help the achievement gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But if the choice is selling a home for $575k to a household that makes $200k and has no kids, versus $900k to a household that makes $300k and has 2 kids, DC might be better off with the former. Any increase in real estate transfer, property, sales, and income tax just isn't big enough to make up for the cost of educating 2 kids for 15 years each. Especially since property tax increases are capped at 10% a year, DINKs may spend more on theater tickets and restaurants and other high-revenue activities, and parents get certain tax breaks for having dependents.

DC's elected officials don't have much incentive to gentrify schools. It will limit access to those schools for people in poorer neighborhoods, thus hurting their base. The new residents aren't loyal to the existing political establishment. Moving in high-income families doesn't bring in much more revenue, if any. And the DC council set up a system where any excess revenue goes into rainy day funds (which are already huge and not available for ongoing needs, just emergencies) and towards income tax reductions. Highly educated parents with kids performing at or above grade level are just not a priority for DC.

10:03 here. This is sort of what I was getting out (although haven't been in DC long and so couldn't articulate this as clearly). It seems that as long as educated (mostly white) families are seen as a transient, perhaps demanding, minority of the larger population with school-aged kids, there is little incentive to cater to this group. Not to mention what some politicians and educators may see as a moral if not political imperative to educate the kids who walk through the door, not those who *could* be convinced to attend these schools down the road.

Just playing devil's advocate--I'd love to see such programs available; just not sure if there's enough incentive to make that happen anytime soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eastern's IBD pass rate average points totals have been a little lower than Banneker's to date, but they're only about to graduate their third class of IBD students, with a dozen students in a cohort.

Enough of this PC silliness. Controlling for race and class alone doesn't get you a high-performing school. In an urban center, bona fide selective admissions combined with decent facilities, strong teaching and leadership,and a diverse student body (with many high SES families of all races involved) gets you a high-performing school.

Yes, DCI will be offering International Baccalaureate Diploma studies, but only IBD lite. IBD studies won't be required at DCI, so they won't have a critical mass of students to offer many Higher Level (1-2 years past AP) classes. Reading the tea leaves, I predict that their pass total will be in the high 20s for the first five years or so they graduate students. If you're shooting for the stars in college admissions (Ivies, Little Ivies, Georgetown, Stanford, military academies, Duke etc.) and you're white or Asian, you're going to need a points total of 40+.

I'm the PP who's years away. Thank you for posting and explaining the stats. I'm familiar with the AP system from my own education but am learning about IB and watching closely what happens with the various local programs.

The other thing to consider is that Eastern and Banneker offer both AP and IB courses.

DCI, on the other hand, will only offer IB.

The problem definitely isn't that DCI will only offer IB courses, it's that their IB courses are unlikely to be terribly rigorous (because so many of their students aren't really "full" IBD material). If a Hill kid can score 6s and 7s on IBD exams at either the Standard or Higher Levels, 4s and 5s on corresponding APs come easily. Go visit one of the MoCo of Fairfax IBD programs and chat with their in-house IB Coordinator if you want to learn more. These programs run IBD open houses.

Just curious- are they not really "full IBD Material" because they're Hispanic? Or are you disgusted by the fact that DCI has black kids?

I am absolutely for a Hill middle school and a rigorous test-in high school, but your statement is flat out racist. The DCI feeders are very strong (stronger than many Hill schools in fact), and since you dismissed most of them as "not IDB material" based on nothing... You're really just a revolting racist.

- Hispanic IB diploma holder who probably would have been dismissed by racist trash like PP, but actually scored only 6s and 7s.

Hello Hispanic IBD holder, I'm not white. Look at DCI's PARCC scores, in the aggregate and by sub-bgroup. Then visit any of the MoCo elementary immersion "feeder" schools sending kids on to Richard Montgomery (which boasts one of the highest IBD average points totals in the world, and is loaded with high-scoring Hispanics). Compare the DCI feeder and DCI itself to the MoCo programs. Take my point without the vitriol.

No, your point is still racist. Just because you're Asian (yes I know who you are now), doesn't allow you to dismiss students based on their race.

Furthermore I would not say Montgomery county isn't doing its part when it comes to Hispanics. They themselves came to this conclusion last year. I understand that you're irritated that Yu Ying doesn't take mandarin speakers (I get it!), but that's not something that's Yu Ying or DCIs fault.

Granted, but you're painting with too broad a brush. The low-income Hispanic students I attended Boston Latin, and my Ivy, with were impressive and I know a little bit about racism (having been called "chink" hundreds of times as a kid). If cities bother to identify academically advanced minority kids young to get them into GT programs, then ensure they have access to free, unlimited test prep, they can be well represented in MS and HS test-in magnet programs. As has been pointed out, Chicago's application system for test-in magnets is superior to MoCo's. Disagree that YY and the other DCI feeders aren't to blame for the lack of native speakers (which negatively impacts their IBD program results later). I've done research on the issue - the DCPC Board seems open to considering letting native speakers test in to replace upper grades drop-outs, tweaking their LEA arrangements, but the feeder schools have not teamed up to ask for this.

As has been explained HUNDREDS of times, the DCI feeders can't do this unless they obtain approval from CONGRESS.

And all the comments you've posted has been consistently racist and xenophobic. I get that you want a language preference for Yu Ying. I support that. But your "research" consists of trashing schools and painting black and Hispanic kids as undesirable. You disgust me, frankly.

You're shadow boxing, mate. Arguably, all the comments you've posted have been seriously uptight. You can always talk to DCPSC Board members yourself about these issues. You can also complain to Jeff to get comments deleted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For 10:03

OSSE releases a DC-wide annual report card, that aggregates demographics and reports on PARCC proficiency for all DCPS and charter school students (obviously it excludes home schooled or private school students) http://results.osse.dc.gov/state/DC

There are 87,343 total students in public and public charter schools in DC. 79% of those students are economically disadvantaged. Only 27% of all students are proficient or advanced in ELA and 25% in math.

For every grade level, no more than 30% of all students are proficient or advanced on PARCC in ELA; for math the high water mark is 37% proficient or advanced in math for all 3rd graders. http://results.osse.dc.gov/state/DC

If you just look only at the performance of non-economically disadvantaged students, the proficient and advanced numbers are 59% for ELA and 56% for math.

10:03 here--thanks for providing these data. Wow, stark numbers here. From what's presented here, I just don't see a very robust argument for creating more challenging programs when the vast majority of the kids are performing so far below where they need to be. Why would any politician push these sorts of programs and risk alienating the rest of the voter base? I don't see it happening, at least not on a large scale, in the near future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Weird that DCPS doesn't care given that research shows poor kids do better when they attend schools with a mix of high performing students. Maintaining high poverty schools will help the achievement gap.

DCPS does care -- why do you think they have pressured the Wilson feeders to accept as many OOB students as possible over the years?