Ruling on MCPS LGBT curriculum case coming this morning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's going to be really fun when Jewish kids opt out of the Narnia series, Catholics opt out of Romeo and Juliet (suicide), and on and on.

shrug.. that's their choice. Bunch of Evangelicals didn't want their kids to read Harry Potter.

But, those books are just fantasy. Teaching ES kids about lgbtq is real life and not age appropriate.

Why is it not age appropriate? If they read a book about Susie going to her uncle’s wedding will something negative happen to them?

MCPS grouped Susie going to her uncle’s wedding in the same book class as men in bondage gear, so without anyone at MCPS able to agree upon what books might be appropriate for Kindergarten, and provide such a generally agreeable list to parents, this is now where we’re at.

Again. Watch the video and show me the men in bondage gear. Is it B for Ballgag? P for pegging? Be specific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 2 genders.

And all those troublesome intersex people, but why let biological reality get in the way of a dumb slogan?

That’s high school level biology/genetics curriculum, not kindergarten.

+1 just had this discussion with my 17 yr old DD who has a few gay friends, one who is her bff since 8. She said ES is not age appropriate to bring up these topics.

My older kid had a bff in ES whose parents were gay. It was just matter of fact for them - oh, my bff has two moms, and that was it. ES children don't delve too deeply into the whys and hows. They just accept it. There is no reason to teach them about the rest of the alphabet soup of genders at this age.

+100

There are certain time to have these conversations and that time is not when kids are in ES. It defies all logic. Some posters calling others bigot, clearly they are bigots to not able to see and bahave that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need to teach reading , science and arthmeictic

And spelling.

Sorry couldn’t resist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 2 genders.

And all those troublesome intersex people, but why let biological reality get in the way of a dumb slogan?

That’s high school level biology/genetics curriculum, not kindergarten.

+1 just had this discussion with my 17 yr old DD who has a few gay friends, one who is her bff since 8. She said ES is not age appropriate to bring up these topics.

My older kid had a bff in ES whose parents were gay. It was just matter of fact for them - oh, my bff has two moms, and that was it. ES children don't delve too deeply into the whys and hows. They just accept it. There is no reason to teach them about the rest of the alphabet soup of genders at this age.

Ok. So you asked a cisgender, heterosexual teen, who presumably has cisgender heterosexual parents, and who also has a primarily cisgender and heterosexual peer group, and who has never been a parent, what she thought would be good for queer kids and kids with same sex parents? And you are offering this in the spirit of authority?

DP. Your question was “what’s good for queer kids and kids with same sex parents.” That’s not the charge of our elementary public school system. Getting confused about the mission of public school education is how we got into this situation.

It is absolutely the job of public education to reflect the everyday lives of students, and to create a welcoming environment in which they see their own reality reflected back to them. This contributes to classroom learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 2 genders.

And all those troublesome intersex people, but why let biological reality get in the way of a dumb slogan?

Stating that there are 2 genders used to be an objective, inoffensive fact of life and biology. Trans activists have made it a “slogan.”

Saying the world was flat and black people are slaves with less rights, and stoning people to death use to be fact, the way of life, and unobjectable, does that mean we should never move forward and reach for better? Should we ignore all contrary evidence and never make changes just because some people are scared of the boogeyman?

We use to tell kids the stork delivered the baby, then realized it wasn’t really helpful to tell kids not to lie then lie to them about basic human biology.

Know better do better. The boogeyman isn’t there, the kids will be fine.

DP. Personally I am quite fine with older kids learning about the new religion that has grown in US that teaches that people have gender souls that can change in a baptism of self-awareness which then requires ritualistic body modification. They should learn about religious beliefs and religious mortification practices. Gender ideology isn’t the only religion that demands body mortification as part of its tenets. However, I do not want young kids taught the religious tenets of this neo religion as fact, because of course they are not. It’s no different that the schools that used to teach that Jesus rose from the dead as fact.

I sharply distinguish between LGB and T, although Pride Puppy with its fetish wear pictures was obviously inappropriate and it was ridiculous for the school district to ever argue that they had the right to show kindergarteners pictures of mostly naked men in bondage gear. No parents except highly suspicious extreme liberal parents want that. Very few parents object to books that show a family with two dads or two moms in the background. But, because the school district refused to moderate and inexplicably decided to fight for the right to require all kindergartners to have cartoon pictures of men in fetishwear in their books, here we are. The arrogance of MCPS is astonishing.

There are some good es books that explain differences in families and people that are not over the top and in your face.

This is why people should do their own research. There is no mostly naked in bondage wear any where in Pride Puppy.

Yes, there are. Or more specifically, there were at the time of filing the lawsuit. The pictures are widely available online and were referenced in oral argument in this case.

The publisher, seeing the backlash, has since re-issued the book to remove the fetishwear. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.

The case was filed in 2023. This video was filmed in 2021. Show me the "mostly naked in bondage wear."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sisIwl07mc4

^^ Another person who didn’t read the actual record or listen to oral argument. But that doesn’t stop them from giving their uninformed views.

Yes, the PP is obviously ignorant of what happened in oral argument.

Interestingly, the publisher of Pride Puppy appears to have aggressively used copyright takedowns to remove the original pictures from the internet. They are almost impossible to find now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 2 genders.

And all those troublesome intersex people, but why let biological reality get in the way of a dumb slogan?

Stating that there are 2 genders used to be an objective, inoffensive fact of life and biology. Trans activists have made it a “slogan.”

Saying the world was flat and black people are slaves with less rights, and stoning people to death use to be fact, the way of life, and unobjectable, does that mean we should never move forward and reach for better? Should we ignore all contrary evidence and never make changes just because some people are scared of the boogeyman?

We use to tell kids the stork delivered the baby, then realized it wasn’t really helpful to tell kids not to lie then lie to them about basic human biology.

Know better do better. The boogeyman isn’t there, the kids will be fine.

The kids will be fine if they don't learn about lgbtq in ES. Save it for MS/HS.

- dp

They won’t be fine. They’ll bully their classmates for having a Daddy and Papa or for dressing in a non-conforming way on picture day.

Are you seriously taking the position that Pride Puppy prevents kids from being bullied? That’s abject nonsense.

There’s tons of studies about this that kids that are LGBT and live in societies that don’t recognize them as normal commit suicide at higher rate.

Here’s a documentary about a Catholic priest that wrote a book about it.

https://sojo.net/articles/culture-opinion/can-fr-martin-build-bridge-between-lgbtq-catholics-and-church

Educate yourself

Or, is that a myth? Perhaps suicides are a result of underlying psychological problems?

https://segm.org/Suicide-Gender-Dysphoric-Adolescent-Young-Adult-Finland-2024

https://mentalhealth.bmj.com/content/27/1/e300940

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/groundbreaking-finnish-study-undermines-gender-activists-suicide-narrative/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38367979/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 2 genders.

And all those troublesome intersex people, but why let biological reality get in the way of a dumb slogan?

That’s high school level biology/genetics curriculum, not kindergarten.

+1 just had this discussion with my 17 yr old DD who has a few gay friends, one who is her bff since 8. She said ES is not age appropriate to bring up these topics.

My older kid had a bff in ES whose parents were gay. It was just matter of fact for them - oh, my bff has two moms, and that was it. ES children don't delve too deeply into the whys and hows. They just accept it. There is no reason to teach them about the rest of the alphabet soup of genders at this age.

Ok. So you asked a cisgender, heterosexual teen, who presumably has cisgender heterosexual parents, and who also has a primarily cisgender and heterosexual peer group, and who has never been a parent, what she thought would be good for queer kids and kids with same sex parents? And you are offering this in the spirit of authority?

So you think a family with 2 moms, simply because they have 2 moms, would be comfortable talking about sex in kindergarten in a group of their peers? This is exactly the groomer behavior people want to avoid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 2 genders.

And all those troublesome intersex people, but why let biological reality get in the way of a dumb slogan?

Stating that there are 2 genders used to be an objective, inoffensive fact of life and biology. Trans activists have made it a “slogan.”

Saying the world was flat and black people are slaves with less rights, and stoning people to death use to be fact, the way of life, and unobjectable, does that mean we should never move forward and reach for better? Should we ignore all contrary evidence and never make changes just because some people are scared of the boogeyman?

We use to tell kids the stork delivered the baby, then realized it wasn’t really helpful to tell kids not to lie then lie to them about basic human biology.

Know better do better. The boogeyman isn’t there, the kids will be fine.

The kids will be fine if they don't learn about lgbtq in ES. Save it for MS/HS.

- dp

They won’t be fine. They’ll bully their classmates for having a Daddy and Papa or for dressing in a non-conforming way on picture day.

Are you seriously taking the position that Pride Puppy prevents kids from being bullied? That’s abject nonsense.

There’s tons of studies about this that kids that are LGBT and live in societies that don’t recognize them as normal commit suicide at higher rate.

Here’s a documentary about a Catholic priest that wrote a book about it.

https://sojo.net/articles/culture-opinion/can-fr-martin-build-bridge-between-lgbtq-catholics-and-church

Educate yourself

Well, that’s a crazy leap. You are irrational.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 2 genders.

And all those troublesome intersex people, but why let biological reality get in the way of a dumb slogan?

That’s high school level biology/genetics curriculum, not kindergarten.

+1 just had this discussion with my 17 yr old DD who has a few gay friends, one who is her bff since 8. She said ES is not age appropriate to bring up these topics.

My older kid had a bff in ES whose parents were gay. It was just matter of fact for them - oh, my bff has two moms, and that was it. ES children don't delve too deeply into the whys and hows. They just accept it. There is no reason to teach them about the rest of the alphabet soup of genders at this age.

Ok. So you asked a cisgender, heterosexual teen, who presumably has cisgender heterosexual parents, and who also has a primarily cisgender and heterosexual peer group, and who has never been a parent, what she thought would be good for queer kids and kids with same sex parents? And you are offering this in the spirit of authority?

DP. Your question was “what’s good for queer kids and kids with same sex parents.” That’s not the charge of our elementary public school system. Getting confused about the mission of public school education is how we got into this situation.

It is absolutely the job of public education to reflect the everyday lives of students, and to create a welcoming environment in which they see their own reality reflected back to them. This contributes to classroom learning.

Surely you understand that it is possible to reflect everyday life and welcome students without reading Pride Puppy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The message that mcps just sent out to staff and families shows that mcps continues to miss the point.
I’d really like to know who drafted it.
“Chilling”

I thought their message was fine. What's the problem with saying "It also sends a chilling message to many valued members of our diverse community"?

You are failing to see the issue here.

MCPS = LGBTQ lobby

Court simply said that parents have right to opt out. MCPS allows opt out for lots of things. It does nto send any message to LGBTQ community. Only a LGBTQ lobby group will interepret court ruling like that.

The other things kids were opting out for were for older kids, and they could sit quietly in a room by themselves, but five-year-olds can’t.

The ruling actually gave MCPS and now they don’t have to keep the kids in school and find something else for them to do. They can make them stay home.

In what world do you think you can just “make” children stay home? That’s not the way it works sweetheart. You now have to find something else for the 5 year olds to do instead. Otherwise you’re discriminating based on religion, which is not legal.

I’m not “making kids stay home” SCOTUS is saying you can have an excused absence if you don’t want your kids in a lesson that is being taught that day.

I’m here for it. Teachers get to continue teaching. Administrators don’t have to deal with your child. You get to opt out, which is what the lawsuit was all about.

It’s not discrimination because it’s your choice.

You got your way, but you’re still complaining.

DP. That’s not AT ALL what was said, did you even read it?

Yes, I did and I also read the descent,. The descent is actually on your side. They said it would be too much time away from education to get excused absences. Every time they read a book that shows a boy and a boy can marry each other.

Just how much LGBTQIA education is going on that kids will miss “too much time”?

None but to religious zealot bigots saying Johnnie has 2 dads is LGBT education.

Reading a book with 2 moms is lgbt education to ignoramuses.

L is for lesbian. You created this nonsense, now you claim it’s ignoramus? Glad you’re coming to your senses!

Don’t worry, hon I’m gonna read these books to your kids at my house.

Honey they ain’t coming to your house, we avoid psychos.

I sit next to you in church.

I don’t go to church, you psycho.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 2 genders.

And all those troublesome intersex people, but why let biological reality get in the way of a dumb slogan?

That’s high school level biology/genetics curriculum, not kindergarten.

+1 just had this discussion with my 17 yr old DD who has a few gay friends, one who is her bff since 8. She said ES is not age appropriate to bring up these topics.

My older kid had a bff in ES whose parents were gay. It was just matter of fact for them - oh, my bff has two moms, and that was it. ES children don't delve too deeply into the whys and hows. They just accept it. There is no reason to teach them about the rest of the alphabet soup of genders at this age.

Ok. So you asked a cisgender, heterosexual teen, who presumably has cisgender heterosexual parents, and who also has a primarily cisgender and heterosexual peer group, and who has never been a parent, what she thought would be good for queer kids and kids with same sex parents? And you are offering this in the spirit of authority?

So you think a family with 2 moms, simply because they have 2 moms, would be comfortable talking about sex in kindergarten in a group of their peers? This is exactly the groomer behavior people want to avoid.

The only people talking about sex are the conservatives. None of the books under discussion here for the ES curriculum are about sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has just gone off the rails. If the reporting I read is accurate, this is the second big loss for MCPS. The first loss was earlier this week with a settlement with Bethany Mandell and others.

LGB was it a sweet spot but when the rest of the alphabet joined in it soured many people.

This is why we need to teach queer liberation in schools. Because this is just an insane claim. Absolutely ahistorical, and I would assume an argument made entirely in bad faith but I think it is just someone who is poorly educated.

But, just for shits and giggles, can you nail down a time frame when this sweet spot occurred? Like, a general year? Careful, it needs to be after Stonewall (led by trans women), and after Obergefell, but before....something.

Stonewall was not led by transwomen. You are wildly ignorant of history. That is your fundamentalist religion rewriting history to have an origin story for your faith, not a factual statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 2 genders.

And all those troublesome intersex people, but why let biological reality get in the way of a dumb slogan?

Stating that there are 2 genders used to be an objective, inoffensive fact of life and biology. Trans activists have made it a “slogan.”

Saying the world was flat and black people are slaves with less rights, and stoning people to death use to be fact, the way of life, and unobjectable, does that mean we should never move forward and reach for better? Should we ignore all contrary evidence and never make changes just because some people are scared of the boogeyman?

We use to tell kids the stork delivered the baby, then realized it wasn’t really helpful to tell kids not to lie then lie to them about basic human biology.

Know better do better. The boogeyman isn’t there, the kids will be fine.

DP. Personally I am quite fine with older kids learning about the new religion that has grown in US that teaches that people have gender souls that can change in a baptism of self-awareness which then requires ritualistic body modification. They should learn about religious beliefs and religious mortification practices. Gender ideology isn’t the only religion that demands body mortification as part of its tenets. However, I do not want young kids taught the religious tenets of this neo religion as fact, because of course they are not. It’s no different that the schools that used to teach that Jesus rose from the dead as fact.

I sharply distinguish between LGB and T, although Pride Puppy with its fetish wear pictures was obviously inappropriate and it was ridiculous for the school district to ever argue that they had the right to show kindergarteners pictures of mostly naked men in bondage gear. No parents except highly suspicious extreme liberal parents want that. Very few parents object to books that show a family with two dads or two moms in the background. But, because the school district refused to moderate and inexplicably decided to fight for the right to require all kindergartners to have cartoon pictures of men in fetishwear in their books, here we are. The arrogance of MCPS is astonishing.

There are some good es books that explain differences in families and people that are not over the top and in your face.

This is why people should do their own research. There is no mostly naked in bondage wear any where in Pride Puppy.

Yes, there are. Or more specifically, there were at the time of filing the lawsuit. The pictures are widely available online and were referenced in oral argument in this case.

The publisher, seeing the backlash, has since re-issued the book to remove the fetishwear. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.

The case was filed in 2023. This video was filmed in 2021. Show me the "mostly naked in bondage wear."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sisIwl07mc4

^^ Another person who didn’t read the actual record or listen to oral argument. But that doesn’t stop them from giving their uninformed views.

Yes, the PP is obviously ignorant of what happened in oral argument.

Interestingly, the publisher of Pride Puppy appears to have aggressively used copyright takedowns to remove the original pictures from the internet. They are almost impossible to find now.

I literally just posted a timestamped video of the book as it would have been read to MCPS kids. I found it in a 10 second Google search. I do not see the fetish gear unless you count the one female in cat ears, which I do not, because sometimes people just wear cat ears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 2 genders.

And all those troublesome intersex people, but why let biological reality get in the way of a dumb slogan?

Stating that there are 2 genders used to be an objective, inoffensive fact of life and biology. Trans activists have made it a “slogan.”

Saying the world was flat and black people are slaves with less rights, and stoning people to death use to be fact, the way of life, and unobjectable, does that mean we should never move forward and reach for better? Should we ignore all contrary evidence and never make changes just because some people are scared of the boogeyman?

We use to tell kids the stork delivered the baby, then realized it wasn’t really helpful to tell kids not to lie then lie to them about basic human biology.

Know better do better. The boogeyman isn’t there, the kids will be fine.

The kids will be fine if they don't learn about lgbtq in ES. Save it for MS/HS.

- dp

They won’t be fine. They’ll bully their classmates for having a Daddy and Papa or for dressing in a non-conforming way on picture day.

So you think reading books like Pride Puppy in kindergarten is the only avenue to raising children that love and accept anyone? You seriously are the problem here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the parents opting their children out of lessons because those lessons include a same sex couple family, please know that the vast majority of us judge you harshly as a bigot and your kids will likely suffer social consequences because of your intolerance. I feel bad for them, especially those who are themselves gay. Shame on you, you intolerant and insecure people.

You are getting judged as bigots for what you are advocating. You fail to see it but then that's true for all bigots.

Forcing 5-6 years old kids to read Pride Puppy and what not. That's not the way to make things better for people you care about.