When is the plan for new HS programs coming out?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

Totally agree. There are plenty of top tier kids who don’t get into the criteria based programs who have to settle for the scraps…they will find kids to fill the criteria based options within the regions.

The majority of students at DC school score between the 95th and 98th percentiles on the MAP M. Those selected for magnet typically have well above 99%.

There’s a significant difference in math ability between these students and the rest of the school, although this gap isn’t always reflected in regular school math classes. Many students who are selected for magnet also participate in math competitions, math/science bowl clubs, etc.

This is where the equity issue comes in. All the schools we've been to don't have math competitions, math/science clubs, etc so zero opportunity except if you go privately and not all kids have time with sports and arts.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

it's not that there 98%ile kids; it's that certain magnet classes are really hard, and not many kids are interested in taking it. But, if you have a program that takes the strongest kids from the county, then there is more demand for such classes.

This is the same type of scenario that MCPS uses when selecting students for the MS magnet. If you don't have a cohort in your home school, then you get selected. In this case, the cohort of kids would be those choosing to take the most challenging classes possible. Not even all of the RMIB kids take IB AA HL math. But there are enough of them who do that warrants that class.

If Kennedy IB had many students wanting that class, they would have offered it. Or, are they not offering it because there are no teachers who can teach it? That is also a problem.

RMIB also offers magnet level courses starting from 9th grade. The regional programs don't do that. Are they going to change it? Are the teachers from the other regions prepared to teach to that level in one year?

RMIB is pretty well known nationally at the IB conferences. Most IB schools only have like 10 to 15 kids in their IB HL AA math class, if at all. RMIB has 30+. Spreading those kids out to the regionals isn't going to create 6 strong programs. Rather, it will dilute it.

Look, I'm actually a big supporter of the "we need to invest in highly rigorous options for very gifted kids, even when they're a small minority" approach. But if the objections are boiling down to not wanting to make things worse for 30 kids a year at RMIB or 20 kids at Blair who want to take certain high level math classes-- if the issue is literally that you will not be able to offer these classes in 6 places around the county because there are only a few dozen kids a year in our 160,000-kid school system who are interested in and prepared to succeed in these classes-- then I'm sorry, but that's just excessive. I support brainstorming creative ways to support these kids getting the classes some other way, but it should absolutely not be used to tank the idea of more regional magnet programs that can serve and benefit hundreds and hundreds of smart, motivated kids a year more conveniently and equitably.

+1

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20 kids not able to take one course out of 160k-kids school system

Vs

Thousands of kids getting better course options.


---------------

It shouldn't even be a debate.


I persoanlyl think you can easily find 20 kids in 4-5 HS combined who want to take those courses. I am sure lots of kids don't want to attend magnet for one reason or another who have higher credentials than many kids attending magnet. You can easily gather 20 kids like that to take the same course in regional choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

it's not that there 98%ile kids; it's that certain magnet classes are really hard, and not many kids are interested in taking it. But, if you have a program that takes the strongest kids from the county, then there is more demand for such classes.

This is the same type of scenario that MCPS uses when selecting students for the MS magnet. If you don't have a cohort in your home school, then you get selected. In this case, the cohort of kids would be those choosing to take the most challenging classes possible. Not even all of the RMIB kids take IB AA HL math. But there are enough of them who do that warrants that class.

If Kennedy IB had many students wanting that class, they would have offered it. Or, are they not offering it because there are no teachers who can teach it? That is also a problem.

RMIB also offers magnet level courses starting from 9th grade. The regional programs don't do that. Are they going to change it? Are the teachers from the other regions prepared to teach to that level in one year?

RMIB is pretty well known nationally at the IB conferences. Most IB schools only have like 10 to 15 kids in their IB HL AA math class, if at all. RMIB has 30+. Spreading those kids out to the regionals isn't going to create 6 strong programs. Rather, it will dilute it.

Look, I'm actually a big supporter of the "we need to invest in highly rigorous options for very gifted kids, even when they're a small minority" approach. But if the objections are boiling down to not wanting to make things worse for 30 kids a year at RMIB or 20 kids at Blair who want to take certain high level math classes-- if the issue is literally that you will not be able to offer these classes in 6 places around the county because there are only a few dozen kids a year in our 160,000-kid school system who are interested in and prepared to succeed in these classes-- then I'm sorry, but that's just excessive. I support brainstorming creative ways to support these kids getting the classes some other way, but it should absolutely not be used to tank the idea of more regional magnet programs that can serve and benefit hundreds and hundreds of smart, motivated kids a year more conveniently and equitably.

So why not keep current highly successful county magnets intact, and introduce 6 regional programs with classes that will challenge hundreds of 'smart, motivated kids' taught by top teachers in any given region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

Totally agree. There are plenty of top tier kids who don’t get into the criteria based programs who have to settle for the scraps…they will find kids to fill the criteria based options within the regions.

The majority of students at DC school score between the 95th and 98th percentiles on the MAP M. Those selected for magnet typically have well above 99%.

There’s a significant difference in math ability between these students and the rest of the school, although this gap isn’t always reflected in regular school math classes. Many students who are selected for magnet also participate in math competitions, math/science bowl clubs, etc.

Well I think the point that you’re making is that attending a magnet isn’t that crucial for a kid at a school with a strong peer cohort. Those 95%+ kids zoned for lower performing schools need special programs with spaces for them. And I think they need it more than the 99.5%er attending a W needs it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

it's not that there 98%ile kids; it's that certain magnet classes are really hard, and not many kids are interested in taking it. But, if you have a program that takes the strongest kids from the county, then there is more demand for such classes.

This is the same type of scenario that MCPS uses when selecting students for the MS magnet. If you don't have a cohort in your home school, then you get selected. In this case, the cohort of kids would be those choosing to take the most challenging classes possible. Not even all of the RMIB kids take IB AA HL math. But there are enough of them who do that warrants that class.

If Kennedy IB had many students wanting that class, they would have offered it. Or, are they not offering it because there are no teachers who can teach it? That is also a problem.

RMIB also offers magnet level courses starting from 9th grade. The regional programs don't do that. Are they going to change it? Are the teachers from the other regions prepared to teach to that level in one year?

RMIB is pretty well known nationally at the IB conferences. Most IB schools only have like 10 to 15 kids in their IB HL AA math class, if at all. RMIB has 30+. Spreading those kids out to the regionals isn't going to create 6 strong programs. Rather, it will dilute it.

Yes, presumably all the regional magnets would start in 9th grade because the programs are all supposed to be equivalent-- the current regional ones obviously aren't so they'd have to make big changes to them or else they'd be going against everything they keep saying about the programs in each region being equally good.

And what you said about middle school magnets is absolutely not true and hasn't been for years, by the way. It's purely a lottery (and for 4th and 5th graders too), meaning hundreds or thousands of gifted kids will go all the way through elementary and middle school without getting any real challenge and instruction on their level. If we can at least fix that in high school by creating more magnet spots so they can be well served in high school, I think we should do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

it's not that there 98%ile kids; it's that certain magnet classes are really hard, and not many kids are interested in taking it. But, if you have a program that takes the strongest kids from the county, then there is more demand for such classes.

This is the same type of scenario that MCPS uses when selecting students for the MS magnet. If you don't have a cohort in your home school, then you get selected. In this case, the cohort of kids would be those choosing to take the most challenging classes possible. Not even all of the RMIB kids take IB AA HL math. But there are enough of them who do that warrants that class.

If Kennedy IB had many students wanting that class, they would have offered it. Or, are they not offering it because there are no teachers who can teach it? That is also a problem.

RMIB also offers magnet level courses starting from 9th grade. The regional programs don't do that. Are they going to change it? Are the teachers from the other regions prepared to teach to that level in one year?

RMIB is pretty well known nationally at the IB conferences. Most IB schools only have like 10 to 15 kids in their IB HL AA math class, if at all. RMIB has 30+. Spreading those kids out to the regionals isn't going to create 6 strong programs. Rather, it will dilute it.

Look, I'm actually a big supporter of the "we need to invest in highly rigorous options for very gifted kids, even when they're a small minority" approach. But if the objections are boiling down to not wanting to make things worse for 30 kids a year at RMIB or 20 kids at Blair who want to take certain high level math classes-- if the issue is literally that you will not be able to offer these classes in 6 places around the county because there are only a few dozen kids a year in our 160,000-kid school system who are interested in and prepared to succeed in these classes-- then I'm sorry, but that's just excessive. I support brainstorming creative ways to support these kids getting the classes some other way, but it should absolutely not be used to tank the idea of more regional magnet programs that can serve and benefit hundreds and hundreds of smart, motivated kids a year more conveniently and equitably.

Not all kids want a magnet. Mine did not as it wasn't the focus they wanted with the elective classes and they are into other things as well which wouldn't fit into their schedule. That doesn't mean that they should be held back in math, science and other stem and MCPS needs to find a way to provide it to all kids. They should not be putting kids on an accelerated track adn then not providing enough classes in HS for graduation. We couldn't make Blair work with after school activities as it has an extra class after school.

[Anonymous]

My son has well above 99% in MAP but opted to not go for magnet due to many reasons. I will be thrilled to have great math options in local HS. Hopefully, he gets to take higher math options.

[Anonymous]

I meant opted to not even apply for magnet. Even after applying there is no gurantee that he would have gotten in.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

it's not that there 98%ile kids; it's that certain magnet classes are really hard, and not many kids are interested in taking it. But, if you have a program that takes the strongest kids from the county, then there is more demand for such classes.

This is the same type of scenario that MCPS uses when selecting students for the MS magnet. If you don't have a cohort in your home school, then you get selected. In this case, the cohort of kids would be those choosing to take the most challenging classes possible. Not even all of the RMIB kids take IB AA HL math. But there are enough of them who do that warrants that class.

If Kennedy IB had many students wanting that class, they would have offered it. Or, are they not offering it because there are no teachers who can teach it? That is also a problem.

RMIB also offers magnet level courses starting from 9th grade. The regional programs don't do that. Are they going to change it? Are the teachers from the other regions prepared to teach to that level in one year?

RMIB is pretty well known nationally at the IB conferences. Most IB schools only have like 10 to 15 kids in their IB HL AA math class, if at all. RMIB has 30+. Spreading those kids out to the regionals isn't going to create 6 strong programs. Rather, it will dilute it.

Look, I'm actually a big supporter of the "we need to invest in highly rigorous options for very gifted kids, even when they're a small minority" approach. But if the objections are boiling down to not wanting to make things worse for 30 kids a year at RMIB or 20 kids at Blair who want to take certain high level math classes-- if the issue is literally that you will not be able to offer these classes in 6 places around the county because there are only a few dozen kids a year in our 160,000-kid school system who are interested in and prepared to succeed in these classes-- then I'm sorry, but that's just excessive. I support brainstorming creative ways to support these kids getting the classes some other way, but it should absolutely not be used to tank the idea of more regional magnet programs that can serve and benefit hundreds and hundreds of smart, motivated kids a year more conveniently and equitably.

+1

----------------

20 kids not able to take one course out of 160k-kids school system

Vs

Thousands of kids getting better course options.


---------------

It shouldn't even be a debate.


I persoanlyl think you can easily find 20 kids in 4-5 HS combined who want to take those courses. I am sure lots of kids don't want to attend magnet for one reason or another who have higher credentials than many kids attending magnet. You can easily gather 20 kids like that to take the same course in regional choice.

The easy solution is for all the HS to be on the same schedule and offer the classes virtually so the 20 kids all over the county can have that class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

it's not that there 98%ile kids; it's that certain magnet classes are really hard, and not many kids are interested in taking it. But, if you have a program that takes the strongest kids from the county, then there is more demand for such classes.

This is the same type of scenario that MCPS uses when selecting students for the MS magnet. If you don't have a cohort in your home school, then you get selected. In this case, the cohort of kids would be those choosing to take the most challenging classes possible. Not even all of the RMIB kids take IB AA HL math. But there are enough of them who do that warrants that class.

If Kennedy IB had many students wanting that class, they would have offered it. Or, are they not offering it because there are no teachers who can teach it? That is also a problem.

RMIB also offers magnet level courses starting from 9th grade. The regional programs don't do that. Are they going to change it? Are the teachers from the other regions prepared to teach to that level in one year?

RMIB is pretty well known nationally at the IB conferences. Most IB schools only have like 10 to 15 kids in their IB HL AA math class, if at all. RMIB has 30+. Spreading those kids out to the regionals isn't going to create 6 strong programs. Rather, it will dilute it.

Yes, presumably all the regional magnets would start in 9th grade because the programs are all supposed to be equivalent-- the current regional ones obviously aren't so they'd have to make big changes to them or else they'd be going against everything they keep saying about the programs in each region being equally good.

And what you said about middle school magnets is absolutely not true and hasn't been for years, by the way. It's purely a lottery (and for 4th and 5th graders too), meaning hundreds or thousands of gifted kids will go all the way through elementary and middle school without getting any real challenge and instruction on their level. If we can at least fix that in high school by creating more magnet spots so they can be well served in high school, I think we should do that.

+1

Both MAP well above 99% for two kids in 5th grade. Both did not win the lottery for magnet middle school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

Totally agree. There are plenty of top tier kids who don’t get into the criteria based programs who have to settle for the scraps…they will find kids to fill the criteria based options within the regions.

The majority of students at DC school score between the 95th and 98th percentiles on the MAP M. Those selected for magnet typically have well above 99%.

There’s a significant difference in math ability between these students and the rest of the school, although this gap isn’t always reflected in regular school math classes. Many students who are selected for magnet also participate in math competitions, math/science bowl clubs, etc.

This is where the equity issue comes in. All the schools we've been to don't have math competitions, math/science clubs, etc so zero opportunity except if you go privately and not all kids have time with sports and arts.

These math competitions are open to everyone and clubs are run by parents. If your school doesn’t have one, then it only means lack of interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

it's not that there 98%ile kids; it's that certain magnet classes are really hard, and not many kids are interested in taking it. But, if you have a program that takes the strongest kids from the county, then there is more demand for such classes.

This is the same type of scenario that MCPS uses when selecting students for the MS magnet. If you don't have a cohort in your home school, then you get selected. In this case, the cohort of kids would be those choosing to take the most challenging classes possible. Not even all of the RMIB kids take IB AA HL math. But there are enough of them who do that warrants that class.

If Kennedy IB had many students wanting that class, they would have offered it. Or, are they not offering it because there are no teachers who can teach it? That is also a problem.

RMIB also offers magnet level courses starting from 9th grade. The regional programs don't do that. Are they going to change it? Are the teachers from the other regions prepared to teach to that level in one year?

RMIB is pretty well known nationally at the IB conferences. Most IB schools only have like 10 to 15 kids in their IB HL AA math class, if at all. RMIB has 30+. Spreading those kids out to the regionals isn't going to create 6 strong programs. Rather, it will dilute it.

Look, I'm actually a big supporter of the "we need to invest in highly rigorous options for very gifted kids, even when they're a small minority" approach. But if the objections are boiling down to not wanting to make things worse for 30 kids a year at RMIB or 20 kids at Blair who want to take certain high level math classes-- if the issue is literally that you will not be able to offer these classes in 6 places around the county because there are only a few dozen kids a year in our 160,000-kid school system who are interested in and prepared to succeed in these classes-- then I'm sorry, but that's just excessive. I support brainstorming creative ways to support these kids getting the classes some other way, but it should absolutely not be used to tank the idea of more regional magnet programs that can serve and benefit hundreds and hundreds of smart, motivated kids a year more conveniently and equitably.

+1

----------------

20 kids not able to take one course out of 160k-kids school system

Vs

Thousands of kids getting better course options.


---------------

It shouldn't even be a debate.


I persoanlyl think you can easily find 20 kids in 4-5 HS combined who want to take those courses. I am sure lots of kids don't want to attend magnet for one reason or another who have higher credentials than many kids attending magnet. You can easily gather 20 kids like that to take the same course in regional choice.

The easy solution is for all the HS to be on the same schedule and offer the classes virtually so the 20 kids all over the county can have that class.

I suspect you are going to find way more than 20 kids who can take that class. Lots of very high scoring kids are not interested in taking a long bus ride and don't like IB programm as well.

Having said that, yes provide virtual option for those 20 kids or whatever number looks like, but we shouldn't be using those 20 kids as reason to not provide better course options to thousands of kids. It defies all logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

it's not that there 98%ile kids; it's that certain magnet classes are really hard, and not many kids are interested in taking it. But, if you have a program that takes the strongest kids from the county, then there is more demand for such classes.

This is the same type of scenario that MCPS uses when selecting students for the MS magnet. If you don't have a cohort in your home school, then you get selected. In this case, the cohort of kids would be those choosing to take the most challenging classes possible. Not even all of the RMIB kids take IB AA HL math. But there are enough of them who do that warrants that class.

If Kennedy IB had many students wanting that class, they would have offered it. Or, are they not offering it because there are no teachers who can teach it? That is also a problem.

RMIB also offers magnet level courses starting from 9th grade. The regional programs don't do that. Are they going to change it? Are the teachers from the other regions prepared to teach to that level in one year?

RMIB is pretty well known nationally at the IB conferences. Most IB schools only have like 10 to 15 kids in their IB HL AA math class, if at all. RMIB has 30+. Spreading those kids out to the regionals isn't going to create 6 strong programs. Rather, it will dilute it.

Look, I'm actually a big supporter of the "we need to invest in highly rigorous options for very gifted kids, even when they're a small minority" approach. But if the objections are boiling down to not wanting to make things worse for 30 kids a year at RMIB or 20 kids at Blair who want to take certain high level math classes-- if the issue is literally that you will not be able to offer these classes in 6 places around the county because there are only a few dozen kids a year in our 160,000-kid school system who are interested in and prepared to succeed in these classes-- then I'm sorry, but that's just excessive. I support brainstorming creative ways to support these kids getting the classes some other way, but it should absolutely not be used to tank the idea of more regional magnet programs that can serve and benefit hundreds and hundreds of smart, motivated kids a year more conveniently and equitably.

+1

----------------

20 kids not able to take one course out of 160k-kids school system

Vs

Thousands of kids getting better course options.


---------------

It shouldn't even be a debate.


I persoanlyl think you can easily find 20 kids in 4-5 HS combined who want to take those courses. I am sure lots of kids don't want to attend magnet for one reason or another who have higher credentials than many kids attending magnet. You can easily gather 20 kids like that to take the same course in regional choice.

The easy solution is for all the HS to be on the same schedule and offer the classes virtually so the 20 kids all over the county can have that class.

Virtual classes are a complete waste of time. It should have been clear to everyone by now after COVID. If I want virtual classes for my kids I can give them to watch free youtube lectures from MIT. I can't believe this nonsense keeps being mentioned as an option here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

it's not that there 98%ile kids; it's that certain magnet classes are really hard, and not many kids are interested in taking it. But, if you have a program that takes the strongest kids from the county, then there is more demand for such classes.

This is the same type of scenario that MCPS uses when selecting students for the MS magnet. If you don't have a cohort in your home school, then you get selected. In this case, the cohort of kids would be those choosing to take the most challenging classes possible. Not even all of the RMIB kids take IB AA HL math. But there are enough of them who do that warrants that class.

If Kennedy IB had many students wanting that class, they would have offered it. Or, are they not offering it because there are no teachers who can teach it? That is also a problem.

RMIB also offers magnet level courses starting from 9th grade. The regional programs don't do that. Are they going to change it? Are the teachers from the other regions prepared to teach to that level in one year?

RMIB is pretty well known nationally at the IB conferences. Most IB schools only have like 10 to 15 kids in their IB HL AA math class, if at all. RMIB has 30+. Spreading those kids out to the regionals isn't going to create 6 strong programs. Rather, it will dilute it.

Look, I'm actually a big supporter of the "we need to invest in highly rigorous options for very gifted kids, even when they're a small minority" approach. But if the objections are boiling down to not wanting to make things worse for 30 kids a year at RMIB or 20 kids at Blair who want to take certain high level math classes-- if the issue is literally that you will not be able to offer these classes in 6 places around the county because there are only a few dozen kids a year in our 160,000-kid school system who are interested in and prepared to succeed in these classes-- then I'm sorry, but that's just excessive. I support brainstorming creative ways to support these kids getting the classes some other way, but it should absolutely not be used to tank the idea of more regional magnet programs that can serve and benefit hundreds and hundreds of smart, motivated kids a year more conveniently and equitably.

+1

----------------

20 kids not able to take one course out of 160k-kids school system

Vs

Thousands of kids getting better course options.


---------------

It shouldn't even be a debate.


I persoanlyl think you can easily find 20 kids in 4-5 HS combined who want to take those courses. I am sure lots of kids don't want to attend magnet for one reason or another who have higher credentials than many kids attending magnet. You can easily gather 20 kids like that to take the same course in regional choice.

Have you thought about these kids would not want to attend brand new unproven regional programs? Many kids would attend Blair/poolesville/RM, but would rather not attend crown magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you with super special bright children, good for you. But this is public school and it cannot cater to the needs of a tiny minority.

I don’t understand why this kind of narrative continues to prevail. Whether it’s countywide or regional magnet programs, they only serve a small minority of students. Take TJ in Fairfax, for example — it’s the same case. So why can’t MCPS offer the same level of opportunity that Fairfax County does? Are we just inferior to our neighbors?

It’s about resources. There are limited resources.

Yeah in MoCo we pay higher taxes but have fewer resources. Maybe they should look at all the wasteful spending MCPS does. So if Blair/poolsville/RM no longer exist as countywide programs, more people will be fleeing away from this crappy place. It’s asinine and shortsighted to kill these long time established flagship programs at Moco while Fairfax keeps to be proud of its well-known TJ.

If parents are really going to flee because they can't bear to have their top 1% kid in class with a lowly top 5% kid, or because they might have to take one math class virtually their senior year, then good riddance, honestly. They can go to the private schools they crave and their families can afford, and meanwhile 6 times more kids who would benefit from strong programming will get it (including top 1% kids who used to not be able to go to countywide programs due to logistics.)

The vast majority of magnet kids are not wealthy enough to send their kids to specialized private school. But even if they could, most private schools cannot offer what MCPS magnet schools offer, which is why some private school students end up going to these magnets if they get in.

Those county wide magnets are one of the few shining stars in MCPS. It's one of the reasons why we were drawn to this school district from out west. It offers various programs for very high achieving kids that many school districts do not. Even if my kid didn't make it to one of the magnets, the fact that there are such programs here means it draws high achieving kids to the school district.

If you take that away, MCPS becomes a middling school district. It's ironic that MCPS likes to tout the SAT/AP scores etc of high achieving students, and then at the same time tell them that they should not expect to have their needs met in school.

Dumbing down the entire school district is not a worthy goal. A county wide magnet attracts the very top, which means they have a sizeable cohort of like high achieving students.

I think regional programs have its place, but so does a county wide magnet.

Why dod we need a county wide magnet if we have regional magnets. If the regional model offered what kids needed who would be choosing to go further away from home just to attend a county wide magnet. Yes you moved here because of what you heard about one magnet. That doesn't mean it's going to stay like that forever into eternity.

A county wide magnet draws the top performers in the entire county, whereas the regional only draws from a few HS. The peer group will be different.

Look at the IB classes offered at RMIB vs a school like Kennedy, a regional IB magnet. RMIB offers more IB classes than Kennedy because there is demand for it. RM has IB AN/APP HL, and it also has two MVC classes. Kennedy doesn't offer IB HL math.

If you make RM regional, the demand for these classes will be lower, and it will not be cost effective to keep those additional IB classes.

This effectively dumbs down the IB program.

That's an assumption. The Kennedy IB program and the RMIB program were not setup to operate the same initially.

The "magnet" portion of the Kennedy IB program is also very new. Class of 2025 was the first graduating class, which means it was also the first real opportunity for HL math. I'm not defending the decision not to offer it, but this is a new program, in a troubled school, with a tiny cohort. I don't think it tells us much about regional programs.

Exactly. And the fact that the RM county-wide program still exist as a county program, actually dilutes from the regional programs.

It's the other way. If you split the strong RMIB cohort across six regions mixed with other students you will just have weaker regional IB programs. RMIB is the strongest program in part because the top 100 or so are in one program. Splitting them up just dilutes a strong program into several weaker ones.

You guys really need to provide some evidence of how having 95th-98th percentile kids in a program makes it "weak" and ruins it.

it's not that there 98%ile kids; it's that certain magnet classes are really hard, and not many kids are interested in taking it. But, if you have a program that takes the strongest kids from the county, then there is more demand for such classes.

This is the same type of scenario that MCPS uses when selecting students for the MS magnet. If you don't have a cohort in your home school, then you get selected. In this case, the cohort of kids would be those choosing to take the most challenging classes possible. Not even all of the RMIB kids take IB AA HL math. But there are enough of them who do that warrants that class.

If Kennedy IB had many students wanting that class, they would have offered it. Or, are they not offering it because there are no teachers who can teach it? That is also a problem.

RMIB also offers magnet level courses starting from 9th grade. The regional programs don't do that. Are they going to change it? Are the teachers from the other regions prepared to teach to that level in one year?

RMIB is pretty well known nationally at the IB conferences. Most IB schools only have like 10 to 15 kids in their IB HL AA math class, if at all. RMIB has 30+. Spreading those kids out to the regionals isn't going to create 6 strong programs. Rather, it will dilute it.

Look, I'm actually a big supporter of the "we need to invest in highly rigorous options for very gifted kids, even when they're a small minority" approach. But if the objections are boiling down to not wanting to make things worse for 30 kids a year at RMIB or 20 kids at Blair who want to take certain high level math classes-- if the issue is literally that you will not be able to offer these classes in 6 places around the county because there are only a few dozen kids a year in our 160,000-kid school system who are interested in and prepared to succeed in these classes-- then I'm sorry, but that's just excessive. I support brainstorming creative ways to support these kids getting the classes some other way, but it should absolutely not be used to tank the idea of more regional magnet programs that can serve and benefit hundreds and hundreds of smart, motivated kids a year more conveniently and equitably.

So why not keep current highly successful county magnets intact, and introduce 6 regional programs with classes that will challenge hundreds of 'smart, motivated kids' taught by top teachers in any given region.

Exactly. Why one has to replace another?