Disappointment

[Anonymous]

Go to Pitt and if year 1 doesn't go well, consider a transfer to CMU (in Pittsburgh).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Anyone who thinks UNC is a safety for OOS has zero clue about the college process.

When did OP say it was a safety?

21:35pm post: "DD really liked CMU and wanted to double major with BME. UNC's joint program was supposed to be more of a safety, and DD said that she loved Dartmouth's flexibility in that program."

Op also said her daughter was "guaranteed" admission to UVA by her college counselor.

OP has to be a troll. This is beyond delusional.

I said almost guaranteed - Her counselor told us that it was very likely. UVA is a great school, but DD's public sends many kids to UVA every year. How is this delusional?

You literally wrote that Carolina OOS was supposed to be a safety (not even a target). That is delusional for anyone. ANYONE.

Here is a very good explanation that apparently you, your DD and her college counselors should watch. It is never, NEVER, a safety or target for any OOS student. I’m not here to argument the merits of a UNC degree (although I am a fan) but the numbers are what they are. Around 6% OOS acceptance rate, firm instate mandate minimum numbers, 57% increase in applications from 2017-2024 (thereby massively increasing your competition and driving down that acceptance rate even further).

Do you not understand math? Yes, it is delusional thinking to label OOS UNC a safety, an almost safety or a target. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHXMaoEv1tW/?igsh=eG0yMWtna3owZ2di

We didn't hire a college counselor, she had her school counselor. Should we have spent on one?

No one said anything about a private college counselor. Her school counselor is her college counselor. Are you really this obtuse? I guess so. Your FREE school college counselor definitely should have known re OOS Carolina. Everyone knows. It is no secret. So either you are not intelligent or are lying/are making this all up.

I didn't grow up in the US so yes, I don't have the best grasp of these terms. I know that her school counselor is her college counselor, but they are also referred to as guidance counselors. I think you're the obtuse one here, sorry to say.

Do you even know what obtuse means?

Yes I do, and I was using it to referring to how quick you are to make assumptions and be nasty. That, to me, doesn't make someone the brightest of the bunch.

Um, no. Obtuse means being slow or not alert in perception, feeling or intellect or being unwilling to understand. A 5 second google search can tell you the definition. You literally just made up a different definition and are not using the word correctly. It does not mean to be quick to make assumptions or "being nasty".

Delusional means characterized by or holding false beliefs or judgments about external reality that are held despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary; based on or having faulty judgment; mistaken. This is another word you need to learn the correct meaning.

Not OP.

You are rude. Look it up.

No, I am blunt and correct. Follow the conversation. OP’s mistakes and her unwillingness to listen probably cost her daughter a lot of unnecessary disappointment. Thinking OOS UNC and instate UVA from NOVA are safeties? GTHOH. I feel very sorry for this kid; but luckily she still has great options. That is, if this scenario is even real.

Whether you are correct is a debatable. Twenty-plus pages debatable. That you are rude is not. Plenty of other PPs have made the same arguments you have without calling OP a stupid, lying troll.

“Do you even know what obtuse means?”

Rude.

Cry about it. At least I’m not an idiot and when I have some ignorance about a topic (like the definition of a word or how a process like college admissions work), I try my best to get knowledge and do research to get more education. And she clearly didn't know what the word meant. FOFA.

Respectfully asking you guys to stop. I'm not the OP. I just find this all very annoying. OK, maybe this family could have gotten different guidance and applied with different expectations. Let's help them feel great about the good choices they have in front of them! Pitt biomedical engineering is excellent. Why not amplify that rather than bicker about how a family navigated the process.

Because the family navigated the process incorrectly and it doesn't have to be that way for others (or for them really). They didnt' miss out on some obscure fact or point, they missed out on things 99.99999% of people with those stats from any NON RURAL area of VA (and possibly even those) would know.

Simple rules: anything with less than 20% acceptance rate is a REACH, for everyone (spare a few special connected people or athletes). The acceptance rates for schools, along with the rates for specific majors/engineering are well know and quite simple to find. 10 mins of research could have found all this information. And we hear of people that this happens to every year. It's not due to lack of information. It's due to people thinking "they are better than everyone else" and not looking at the data realistically.

We have amplified that Pitt Engineering (and BME) is great. But the OP keeps coming back with excuses. So if you do that, and don't realize reaches are just that (be surprised if you get in, expect to be rejected), and don't have enough targets and safeties, then you will be disappointed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I smell a 🧌

Do you think her profile is too "basic"? She says she regrets not picking more creative ECs, although I think her ECs were perfectly suited for her major + demonstrated her passion.

Yeah, I agree there is nothing that stands out in her ECs.

ECs:
not impressive: - A few regional awards (STEM)
Actually good: - 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
everyone has one: - Founder of non-profit
this year AOs don't like research for some reason: - Research w/ prof at T30
everyone has one: - Competitive summer program for BME
everyone has this: - Lots of community service

This year I heard Stanford retracted an acceptance because the applicant lied about volunteer hours.
Are those 200 volunteer hours @ local hospital registered with the school?

Yes, she made sure that everything was registered. I'm assuming the more "basic" ECs were the factor harming her application?

No, it's just a bizarre system that makes kids do these things. In other countries kids don't have to do these admissions acrobatics.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:REACH
JHU, Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth, Columbia, Duke, CMU, Cornell, UNC (OOS)
TARGET
UVA, VT, WM, Lehigh
SAFETY
UPitt

UVA RD and engineering (BME) from NOVA is NOT a REACH, it's a Target. W&M is also a REACH.

Do that and you see the OP applied to mostly REACHes

PP said they were targets

Meant to say it's a Target, not a reach (my error)
In reality UVA RD for engineering is a Reach. Acceptance rates are 13-16%, and I'm willing to bet BME is even lower due to its popularity (I don't care to waste my time researching for that data point, as I already did that for my kids at the schools they considered)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised at the UVA result but it supports my view that from FCPS you are strongly advised to apply ED to UVA.

Do you mean EA? OP said that her DD applied ED to JHU.

No I meant ED. If you want to go to UVA apply ED. If you apply ED somewhere else don’t even bother with UVA.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Call me crazy, but personally, I think schools see kids with 15 APs (all 5s) and think "she'll graduate early so that's a year less of tuition." It's a business.

Hmm, this does make quite a bit of sense. I actually thought that all her APs would give her a boost, especially with her scores.

I can attest to that. Last year, one girl from our school got into Princeton who took AP Physics in 12th grade, and two boys were rejected who completed AP Physics C in 9th and 10th grade with 5s in both. The boys were more cracked in other subjects, too. So, what you're saying about having strong APs as a disadvantage is making sense.

DP: No, just that having a 1600/4.0UW/15+ APs does not make you any better than a 1520/3.9UW/8AP kid at most T25. They want to see more---they want a well rounded student, not a robot who can crank out AP Calc BC in 10th grade.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Harsh comments on this thread. Didn’t read them all

To the OP, I think college acceptances are a big farce. We pretend like if this child just had diff ECs or something else her outcomes would have been different. I know two kids admitted to Ivies this cycle that are very average (no leadership, hard working but not brilliant). Why were they admitted? Because they come from rural communities and are economically disadvantaged according to the college’s formula. That gave them the boost to get admitted. Kids from the DC region are on a whole other playing field. It really opened my eyes that admissions is a joke and we are pretending that our kids have some control over the process.

Strongly agree. There is nothing wrong with OP’s profile. What’s wrong is a corrupt admissions process that favors rich people through ED, athletes and often legacies and more. No one should be so invested in affirming the current admissions process that they blame this child, especially with racist Asian stereotypes. OP’s kid will do great at any of the colleges she was accepted to. W&M and Pitt seem to have many happy students! OP, I suggest you have this thread locked and stop subjecting yoursef and your kid to these insults.

For the final time: Anyone can do ED. You just have to run the NPC and be prepared to pay what the school says you "can pay". If you can't pay what they say, well then you should not ED. Or if you "could pay but want the opportunity to see what merit offers a kid gets" well then ED is not for you. But you could choose to ED and pay
So yeah, kids whose parents have planned and saved for college can ED, and it's not just rich kids. There are plenty of MC/UMC parents who chose to save and make education a priority. If you didn't don't complain now

Glad this is the final time you write this drivel. Many of us disagree with you.

You are just upset that you cannot afford what the school says. That you make $200K+ and have not chosen to save. Do you also whine and complain that you cannot afford a 75K BMW or other luxury vehicle?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:90% of you people don't know the difference between a reach, target and safety. Multiple posters classifying UVA, VT, WM and Lehigh as REACHES. BS. All are TARGETS. The fact that OP was WL at one and accepted at three confirms that. People are rarely accepted to reaches. Thats why they are reaches!

UVA instate RD Engineering acceptance rates are 13-16%. That makes it a REACH. Had they done RD, the rate is in the 30% so it could have been a target.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Harsh comments on this thread. Didn’t read them all

To the OP, I think college acceptances are a big farce. We pretend like if this child just had diff ECs or something else her outcomes would have been different. I know two kids admitted to Ivies this cycle that are very average (no leadership, hard working but not brilliant). Why were they admitted? Because they come from rural communities and are economically disadvantaged according to the college’s formula. That gave them the boost to get admitted. Kids from the DC region are on a whole other playing field. It really opened my eyes that admissions is a joke and we are pretending that our kids have some control over the process.

Strongly agree. There is nothing wrong with OP’s profile. What’s wrong is a corrupt admissions process that favors rich people through ED, athletes and often legacies and more. No one should be so invested in affirming the current admissions process that they blame this child, especially with racist Asian stereotypes. OP’s kid will do great at any of the colleges she was accepted to. W&M and Pitt seem to have many happy students! OP, I suggest you have this thread locked and stop subjecting yoursef and your kid to these insults.

For the final time: Anyone can do ED. You just have to run the NPC and be prepared to pay what the school says you "can pay". If you can't pay what they say, well then you should not ED. Or if you "could pay but want the opportunity to see what merit offers a kid gets" well then ED is not for you. But you could choose to ED and pay
So yeah, kids whose parents have planned and saved for college can ED, and it's not just rich kids. There are plenty of MC/UMC parents who chose to save and make education a priority. If you didn't don't complain now

Glad this is the final time you write this drivel. Many of us disagree with you.

DP - You can disagree all you want, but you would be wrong, and PP is right.

Please tell me what PP typed that you disagree with.

+1
They are just made they chose not to save enough for college and feel entitled. Not recognizing that the T25 very rarely give merit. So if you can't afford the school in ED, nothing changes for RD. And if you are saying, "well if my kid doesn't get into a better school then I'm willing to fork over the $90K/year for your school", then you need to make that choice by Nov 1, or ED isn't the choice for you. But yes, you do have that choice, you just don't like not being able to compare. That is literally the definition of what ED means---you are willing to commit without comparing to other options

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Nah, she wasn’t realistic about a lot of these colleges. I’m pp whose DC got into 8 schools a while back.

I agree with other posters. You have to do lots of research to get good outcomes. And I mean a lot of research. And then you have to be very realistic about the game and how you can win at it.

We were lucky because 1) my kid was not a 1500+ student; 2) the Ivies were never a consideration because of it, and 3) a few other “street smart” factors that we homed in on that narrowed our focus.

Colleges tell you who they are without necessarily telling you who they are if you are researching well and asking the right questions.

My last thought is that very few students should be applying to Ivies. It’s too hard to win at that game, and the penalty of losing other options early on is just not worth it unless you are really hooked.

I’m intrigued by this. Can you please share more? Maybe an example of two?

Okay. I will try.

I have another kid and we recently visited on of the colleges that was on your student’s list.

We went on the college tour and really listened to everything said; scoured the brochures and website; and compared this place to other school/programs we knew.

We walked away thinking that this is a top university, but is not a top STEM university. The course depth and opportunities in the areas that my kid wants to focus on just wasn’t as prominent or plentiful as you would find in a STEM focused school. We had visited several STEM focused schools and could see the difference. Therefore the school, though a top school, would not be a good fit for my kid.

Now the school will try to say that they are big in Engineering (which they are good at, but not necessarily the biggest name). Our take was that they were more of a liberal arts focused school with a good engineering department, which is different than being a strong engineering school.

Compare that to let’s say UMD College Park. As soon as you walk on campus, the whole quad on the right is focused on the Sciences and Engineering. Wind Tunnel building, new Tech buildings and CS/AI. Biological and agricultural science. The school’s media emphasizes the millions invested in programs for STEM and top labs, research, etc.

College Park offers many disciplines of learning. But any student visiting there would clearly see the strong focus on STEM. The same goes to Rochester, Rutgers NB (chemistry molecule statue), Case and so many others. Again, surprised that these schools were not on your list. They ooze STEM and premed and some tech. They have hospitals and medical schools. You can’t get more premed than that.

Another college that we visited recently added a very specialized STEM-related department that would allow students to gain on campus experience in a certain area. What the college isn’t saying is that their graduates have been disadvantaged in this area without specific experience. So the school decided to invest in adding some experience in this area to make future grads more competitive. I won’t name the school, but it is a school that is trying to build out a bigger premed presence. They’ve also added student internships in medicine around the world to the curriculum for premed students, another key way to gain clinic hours during the school year.

So it’s there if you know what to look for.

Look at how the school invests its money. Look at how students spend their time. Look at disciplines that are prized on campus and in the broader educational community, etc.

+1

And yes, Case and Rochester most definitely should have been the OP DD's list! Top for STEM/engineering/premed, and if DD showed demonstrated interest, they would not get yield protected at Case. My 1520/3.95UW/8AP kid got $42K/year at Case and we hadn't even visited. They just attended several online sessions and decided to apply because no supplemental essays (and I and our counselor had been telling them it was a good fit for them, so apply and see what happens).

[Anonymous]

Have a freshman at a top private and so far has a 4.0. I am just shocked at the notion that her ECs are "basic" and not enough. I don't know how you can even get some of these ECs in high school. How depressing. I can only think of this girl's sacrifices over her high school years to get all these grades. I know I know, lots of kids have same grades etc. But still...,

[Anonymous]

None of these results (save for UVA in state) can be viewed as disappointing. If UVA was an RD application, even that result is not entirely surprising(I happen to think this would have been an easy admit in EA absent red flags). T25 schools require a bit of luck for many high stats, good-not-great EC profiles to get into. Weaving a compelling narrative is a must, yet not a guarantee.

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Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I think it’s wrong that our current college admissions process is becoming like Korea, China or India where children lose their childhoods spending 10 hour days cramming to score high enough or pressured to abandon all ethics and cheat whenever possible to get a coveted seat at the few respected institutions. Whether you win the lottery or not, you have lost more than you gained along the way.

You can easily choose not to go down that path.

My High stats kid did (1500/3.95 UW/8 AP).
They choose to mostly do STEM APs and AP Psych (easy and more importantly they liked Psychology)
They skipped APUSH/AP Eng/AP Spanish/French, because while they could easily do the course and get an A/A-, they didn't want to add 15-20+ hours/week of coursework. They wanted to dance 15-20hr+/week and enjoy HS just a bit. So they took AP Calc AB&BC, AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Physics Mech, AP CompSci A, etc. And skipped the time consuming (for them) Humanities/LA AP courses.
Now, maybe that is what prevented them from getting into reaches, who knows. What I do know is my kid had the academic HS experience they wanted (aside from Covid and classes from their bed for 1.5 years) We felt it was important that my kid get 5-6 hours of sleep each night not 3-4. And they were not giving up dance, they did what they wanted to with that

My kid got WL at one reach, rejected at 3, in at NEU Global Scholars, and in at 4 Targets and 3 safeties. And they are very happy where they are, and excelling for their future.

More importantly HS was not 4 years of misery doing things just because they might get into a T10 school

Someone will come along shortly and say your kid is not well rounded and can't read a 400 year old book and can't pick out countries from a map

I doubt anyone would say that because that is an excellent profile of a very bright kid. But, they did pretty much rule themselves out of acceptance at most T15s or T10 SLACs with that approach and there is nothing wrong with that because there are literally hundreds of schools which will provide a springboard to success in life.

+1

Also, my kid ended up with their top 2 choices being schools where you Cannot use AP credits for the "core curriculum". So had they stressed themselves and take those extra courses in HS, had they still not gotten into their REACHES, which is still extremely likely--still a 95% chance of rejection---I mean my kid was deferred at a T10 then rejected, so they "checked the boxes for being a candidate", then they wouldn't have gotten any college credit for them. So it all worked out, my kid is happier and didn't spend HS just doing things to hope for a T25 school. They are happy, and well adjusted kid doing exceedingly well in college.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised at the UVA result but it supports my view that from FCPS you are strongly advised to apply ED to UVA.

Do you mean EA? OP said that her DD applied ED to JHU.

No I meant ED. If you want to go to UVA apply ED. If you apply ED somewhere else don’t even bother with UVA.

Not true---but at least apply EA. If EA is an option you should ALWAYS use it. Otherwise, you greatly reduce your chances. There is literally no downside to EA, other than having to have your act together and submitting your application by Nov 1.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Nah, she wasn’t realistic about a lot of these colleges. I’m pp whose DC got into 8 schools a while back.

I agree with other posters. You have to do lots of research to get good outcomes. And I mean a lot of research. And then you have to be very realistic about the game and how you can win at it.

We were lucky because 1) my kid was not a 1500+ student; 2) the Ivies were never a consideration because of it, and 3) a few other “street smart” factors that we homed in on that narrowed our focus.

Colleges tell you who they are without necessarily telling you who they are if you are researching well and asking the right questions.

My last thought is that very few students should be applying to Ivies. It’s too hard to win at that game, and the penalty of losing other options early on is just not worth it unless you are really hooked.

I’m intrigued by this. Can you please share more? Maybe an example of two?

If you want good examples of how to approach elite admissions try these:

Applying sideways MIT blog: https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/applying_sideways/

The thoughts are pertinent to any highly rejective school and should be taken to heart as someone try's to determine if they are a 'fit' at a school.

And this GT blog about Institutional Priorities: https://sites.gatech.edu/admission-blog/2023/03/06/the-two-most-important-letters-in-college-admission/

both of these will provide needed perspective to the process.

Thank you to poster of the above 2 links. Print out and read and re-read.