I'm a lesbian and just found out yet another one of my exes is transitioning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gay man here, mid 40s. Just wanted to say that I find this thread fascinating. I don’t think the same dynamic generally exists at all in gay men. I’ve never heard of anyone knowing anyone that transitioned from gay man to trans woman, except those for whom it was always obvious to them and others that being a trans woman was always who they were, surgery of any type or not.

I hate to be crass, but gay men uniformly seem to really like dick. It’s kinda the underlying uniting characteristic of being a gay man.

Well, the proof is kinda in the pudding maybe…
My hunch is that lesbians who are with transmen still in their hearts see their partners as female.
A lot, and maybe most transmen don’t go through with the entirety of what bottom surgery potentially entails.
Maybe a combo of masculine appearance and female-ish privates work for some lesbians.
Not me - I love women who are tomboyish but still with all the normal female parts and curves and a soft face.
But for other lesbians, who knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a straight woman who is not particularly into girl stuff, I’ve always appreciate butch lesbians for being at the forefront of challenging what it means to be a woman. I’m also sad to see many of them transitioning to men. And, yes, I know it’s not about me and my desire to have other people challenge gender norms for me. Sigh. But I do appreciate that we are moving to a world where everyone can be who they want to be.

NP. Are they, though?
I’m an older soft-butch lesbian and I am really skeptical that the desire to transition is truly borne out of “just being myself.”
All this transitioning seems very binary-reinforcing and serves “blending in” much more than being accepted in society as a butch lesbian.
And I also wonder what the long term is like for butch lesbians who transition. Are straight women really interested?
As a gay women, I do not find myself attracted to trans men who have medically transitioned. I can’t imagine my straight girl friends being very interested either.
OP I hope this fad ends soon. There’s going to be a backlash. I really hope that butch lesbians will reclaim space for themselves.
Also, where are you? Maybe get out into some different circles. I don’t think this is happening equally everywhere.

Thank you for this comment. I am not a lesbian or trans but appreciate your opinion.

[Anonymous]

I can understand what OP is saying. Her pool of potentials is getting smaller because they are no longer women. Sorry OP. Hopefully your ex's are not representative of the greater dating pool.

[Anonymous]

I hear you, OP. I was in a relationship with someone who was just starting to transition and then later fully transitioned after our relationship ended. I didn't want to be dating a man, so felt less than fully comfortable when he was male presenting, but now looking back it feels like those happy memories are gone because that person doesn't exist anymore. It does feel like there's a flattening into more binary norms, and although I don't have anything but support for the individual, it feels like there is less diversity in the lesbian "pool" than 20 years ago. Not an issue for me personally, but I can see how that would be difficult as a young single person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't totally get why lesbian relationships often take on a butch/femme vibe to being with. If you want to be with a woman why do you gravitate towards a more masculine woman? I know this is complex and has to do with personal experience, family of origin, and gender roles within the relationship but sometimes I see lesbian relationships that are even more general stereotyped than cis/hetero relationships, in which the butch spouse wears mens shirts, sports short hair, is the only or major provider, and does all the handiwork and finances. To each her own it just seems kind of ironic to be so gender-stereotyped within a same-sex relationship.

That’s the old days you are talking about. Because back in those days, that’s the only kind of “couple” there was, so it was natural to play roles in that way.
Nowadays it’s much more common to see two androgynous women together, or two femmes, or other pairings. Pretty rare in lesbian relationships for one partner to be like a SAH wife.
And remember - masculine women are still women. They still have the right stuff. Feminine women do not own all of the attractiveness out there.

The bolded isn’t true at all. I’m a lesbian and lesbian relationships often mirror the bolded. Age gaps in lesbian relationships are quite common and one almost always has and makes WAY MORE money.

Gay affluence is a myth.

There’s a reason why lesbians have the highest divorce rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't totally get why lesbian relationships often take on a butch/femme vibe to being with. If you want to be with a woman why do you gravitate towards a more masculine woman? I know this is complex and has to do with personal experience, family of origin, and gender roles within the relationship but sometimes I see lesbian relationships that are even more general stereotyped than cis/hetero relationships, in which the butch spouse wears mens shirts, sports short hair, is the only or major provider, and does all the handiwork and finances. To each her own it just seems kind of ironic to be so gender-stereotyped within a same-sex relationship.

I’m a lesbian and wonder about this dynamic as well.

The immediate examples in popular culture that comes to mind are:

Portia and Ellen
Wanda Skye and her French white wife
Kara Swisher and her new wife Amanda Katz

All of the dynamics involve older women who are the less ‘femme’ one and make way more money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with a lot of what is said. I think rather than accepting the diversity of womanhood we are falling prey to stereotypes.

1,000%!

[Anonymous]

You are all grappling with your sexuality. I still think some of this is suggestive - people don’t feel like they fit in a classic square box, and now there are more options publicized and acceptable. I have heard some older lesbians say that if they were young today they might consider themselves trans, but they’ve had many years living with themselves as lesbians, so that’s who they are. I agree with the above sentiment that we should embrace our womanhood in whatever form it manifests rather than declaring ourselves men, but I don’t get a vote in others’ lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, so you’re doing your sexuality and gender identity “right,” and they’re doing it “wrong?”

OK.

You do get that that is just as insulting as anyone who would say to you that YOU are doing your sexuality “wrong” by being a lesbian, and your gender identity “wrong” by not presenting as entirely feminine, right? Right?

You do get that, yes?

You need to take some time to reflect, talk to a therapist, and do some real soul-searching on how damaging your view is of these women and men who are living THEIR lives authentically to THEMSELVES.

Wow, way to misread the OP and put a lot of words in her mouth. She didn't say anything like this, and she is very honest that this is about her own fears around finding a partner. She isn't anti-trans and isn't saying anyone is doing it wrong. There is nothing damaging about her views and she isn't imposing anything on anyone.

Oh, cute, you tried it!

Direct quote from OP:
“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a man.”

How about me saying this to OP, who is a lesbian, would this be OK, to say about lesbians?

“It hurts so much seeing all of these incredibly intelligent, gorgeous, rebellious women flatten themselves into this caricature of a woman.”

It's her opinion, and she's talking about specific people. That's how she experiences their transition. That's different then saying she doesn't think anyone should transition or that it's bad to do so.

Ohhhhhhhh, OK! Well in that case, allow me to speak from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, too. I have a high school boyfriend who ended up coming out as gay after we graduated from college. Should I say how “bummed” I feel that this intelligent, sexy, caring, talented person turned himself into a “caricature of a man” because of his sexuality?

Oh what’s that? That’s an ignorant and horrible thing to say about someone based on their sexuality, but not when you’re talking about gender identity? Oh, OK.

PP I love you and your fire and wish I had you with me when I have to "explain" transphobia to my friends and family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't totally get why lesbian relationships often take on a butch/femme vibe to being with. If you want to be with a woman why do you gravitate towards a more masculine woman? I know this is complex and has to do with personal experience, family of origin, and gender roles within the relationship but sometimes I see lesbian relationships that are even more general stereotyped than cis/hetero relationships, in which the butch spouse wears mens shirts, sports short hair, is the only or major provider, and does all the handiwork and finances. To each her own it just seems kind of ironic to be so gender-stereotyped within a same-sex relationship.

Most of the lesbians I know are two soft butch women together. Second most popular seems to be two femmes. I only know one couple with a very femme woman with a very masculine presenting one.

+1
Every lesbian couple I know is two soft butch lesbians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Butch lesbian here. I have friends who have transitioned, friends who are IDing as gender queer. I want people to feel comfortable in their skin and in their lives. Ideally, I would have chest surgery- maybe not to flat but certainly to a small B or even big A cup. Not because I want to be a man but because it would better fit my ideal body shape.

I think a lot of what OP is seeing has to do with her age. Transition is expensive and emotional for a lot of people and sometimes there’s a state of trying to fit in between.

Trans men are men, butch women are women- but the ways in which gender is presented in all the in between- from the very most femme woman or masculine dude to the most femme dude to masculine woman and all those people who fall in between or beyond… well, that’s just been one of the most lovely surprises of my adulthood. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.

This. I think this is a specific version of a very common issue, especially in the LGBTQ+ community but really among young people generally, which is that it takes many people most of their 20s to figure out who they are and what kind of life they want to lead. Transitioning is a dramatic and generally permanent example, but you run into this with people deciding they want to be poly, or deciding whether or not having kids is something they want to prioritize. It is very, very common to get involved with people in your 20s and then to feel like the rug has been pulled out from under you when they decide that they are someone different than you thought, or hoped, them to be.

But I agree with you PP -- the diversity out there is encouraging and while I think it's painful at times (life is always painful at times), ultimately it is good that we live in a society that is making space for this kind of exploration and experimentation earlier in life. I know and have known a number of people who have gone through this much later in life, often after having children and being in longterm relationships or marriages, and I can say without a doubt that we all benefit from giving people more space to make these discoveries earlier in life.

GenX here, and I agree with both of you. Thank you for putting it so well.

[Anonymous]

I will also say, without commenting on my personal feelings about how you worded it, OP, is that I hear you saying this feels like erasure. I understand that feeling. It has a long history in the queer community in a lot of directions. You are allowed to have feelings of loss and anxiety over erasure. But that doesn't mean trans men aren't men and butch lesbians aren't women.

[Anonymous]

I'm most concerned of the medicalized approach for teens, ever younger, who are given hormones that have severe health consequences even for the adults.

The warnings given for injectable testosterone as prescribed for MEN who have severely low T for whatever reason are harrowing. Yet the descriptions provided on some sites dedicated for transitioners makes it sound like you can just live with those risks because all of life has risks.

Injecting hormones is not your average life risk.