Travel to third world countries

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find all the criticism of OP odd. I would not go to vacation in the poverty stricken parts of WV and likewise I have no desire to vacation in spots where I am going to encounter destitute people regularly. I am not so into staying I. Just one spot during a vacation like at a resort so the latter is an issue to contend with.

For instance I know some like Puerto Rico a lot. I did not in large part because the very strong poverty once you were off property was really depressing. I support helping the island and wish the people who live there no ill will but being depressed is not how I want to spend my vacation.

That's fine, and not entirely unreasonable. But OP said that she travels for "art and architecture". Basically, she wants to appreciate another country's culture but not have to interact with the parts of that culture that she finds upsetting. I don't know OP's race, but if there were ever a text book definition of "White Privilege", I think OP might fit it. And she has the gall to call herself "empathic", because seeing poverty upsets her. You know what upsets me? Knowing that people live in such extreme poverty, regardless of whether I see them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. Of course but a lot of the people you DO encounter are the ones begging because they go where tourists are. And lots of them are being exploited by their own people so you can’t “fix” or even slightly help people. You end up enriching the corrupt in the country rather than truly helping with your tourism dollars. Some people don’t consider that a pleasant experience. It is downright depressing to feel helpless dismay. Anyone thinking they are helping are fooling themselves.

Indian-American here who grew up traveling to India frequently. Not going to pretend I didn't see poverty there, but the place I visited as a kid that most stands out to me for the number of people begging for money is actually Washington DC.

Maybe the difference is that the homeless people begging in DC - I know that there are spots available to help them like soup kitchens and homeless shelters.

[Anonymous]

I've spent a lot of time in third world, war torn countries. Most people are not starving. They have a relatively steady supply of food, usually not of huge variety, but of fairly good quality. They have homes and some material comforts like TVs and radios and sometimes old game consoles. They usually have a small selection of clothes, and the clothes are of decent quality for weather, wear, etc.

OP, I would reconsider how important material items are to having a basically good life. Yes, they can't take ski vacations or go out to restaurants very often. But they often have a more thriving, fulfilling social life than we do, and they are more supportive of their families, friends, etc than we generally experience. I think being afraid of experiencing this might close you off to understanding the human condition. You have far more in common with these people than you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've spent a lot of time in third world, war torn countries. Most people are not starving. They have a relatively steady supply of food, usually not of huge variety, but of fairly good quality. They have homes and some material comforts like TVs and radios and sometimes old game consoles. They usually have a small selection of clothes, and the clothes are of decent quality for weather, wear, etc.

OP, I would reconsider how important material items are to having a basically good life. Yes, they can't take ski vacations or go out to restaurants very often. But they often have a more thriving, fulfilling social life than we do, and they are more supportive of their families, friends, etc than we generally experience. I think being afraid of experiencing this might close you off to understanding the human condition. You have far more in common with these people than you think.

Also, OP, maybe watch the documentary Honeyland.

[Anonymous]

OP - there is a lot of poverty in a lot of places. But people's lives are not all miserable. And if you got to know people, you would realize that. Human ingenuity, courage, love for each other, etc, - all these things shine through loud and clear. Of course, there are the mentally ill, the beaten, the abused, etc. But people are just people. And it is amazing how little a person actually needs in terms of material comforts to be fulfilled. If you are truly empathetic, you would be able to see the humanity and joy coming through. If you think that one needs a DMV style UMC life to be happy, you will be sorry for a lot of people who dont need/want your pity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find all the criticism of OP odd. I would not go to vacation in the poverty stricken parts of WV and likewise I have no desire to vacation in spots where I am going to encounter destitute people regularly. I am not so into staying I. Just one spot during a vacation like at a resort so the latter is an issue to contend with.

For instance I know some like Puerto Rico a lot. I did not in large part because the very strong poverty once you were off property was really depressing. I support helping the island and wish the people who live there no ill will but being depressed is not how I want to spend my vacation.

That's fine, and not entirely unreasonable. But OP said that she travels for "art and architecture". Basically, she wants to appreciate another country's culture but not have to interact with the parts of that culture that she finds upsetting. I don't know OP's race, but if there were ever a text book definition of "White Privilege", I think OP might fit it. And she has the gall to call herself "empathic", because seeing poverty upsets her. You know what upsets me? Knowing that people live in such extreme poverty, regardless of whether I see them.

You honestly define poverty as part of a country's culture??! Poverty or deprivation is not part of a culture regardless of whether it is a feature of their reality. Is poverty a feature of American culture?

[Anonymous]

OP - Ignore the mean comments. It is normal to find the actual reality of poverty and deprivation much more confronting than reading about it in a newspaper. The sheer scale can seem overwhelming. It is hard to be the dispassionate observer. It can take experience and a certain mindset to inure yourself to actual deprivation.

Some commenters have made good suggestions about not assuming a lack of material wealth equals poverty. Poverty is a measure of material wealth. I have seen happier faces in ostensibly poor countries than I have in the streets of Bethesda.

That said, there are some things you can do that might help. One thing is to try to stay focused on the big picture. Rather than salve your conscience by handing out goodies or feeding hungry dogs, sign up for monthly donations to a reputable NGO that is seeking to address these problems in a systemic way.

If you are there to enjoy their art and architecture, then show your appreciation through generosity to people around you. Tip well, don't over-bargain. Every extra dollar will get circulated through the community.

Maybe do some research beforehand to identify a worthwhile project you can visit and then make a substantial donation.

Be creative. If you can afford to travel to visit these countries, take over 10 or 20 fifty dollar bills and give them to people. You could have a big impact on their lives. Something along those lines.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think it has to do with empathy, OP. As you pointed out the issue is not that you aren’t aware of degrading poverty and inequality everywhere. You just can’t bear to see it. That’s not empathy, that’s dehumanizing to the people you are pitying. They are human beings also and yes, most human beings on this planet do not live like you.

When I traveled in India I went through several regions for a few weeks and then lived in a rural village to volunteer with a local NGO. Easily one of the richest and most amazing experiences of my life, not because I was “helping” but because of the beauty of the village and the people I met. I did a similar thing in Cambodia and saw things that would turn many people’s stomachs (child trafficking). It’s very hard and you can’t get the people’s stories out of your mind. That’s the human condition. We can’t get away from it by only traveling in Europe! When I traveled in South Africa I visited the townships with a friend who ran a NGO there. It’s homes made out of trash and scraps for as far as the eye can see. We donated a scholarship to our friend’s NGO, not out of pity but because we admired the students he was helping so much. They were true leaders and incredible people.

When you take the time to understand the dynamics of these places and the ways in which colonialism and ongoing exploitation shapes their histories, you really see the world you live in. You will also meet — as in any situation with people in need — incredibly talented and noble individuals in this society who dedicate their lives to others. It’s not squalor, OP, it’s people’s lives. They don’t just need other people to feel sorry for them and feed them scraps. They need a better world to live in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've traveled a lot but not to many third world countries. I have been reluctant because I feel as if bearing witness to the grinding poverty would ruin the experience for me. I couldn't sleep at night in India knowing that right outside my window there are people without the most basic means to survive. Yes, I know when I got to sleep here they are still there but somehow the thought of lookign people in the eye and not really being able to help them while touring around the country and treating them as a bit of the 'experience' feels uncomfortable for me. I mean we took a helicopter trip to a tiny island in Hawaii with fancy picnic lunches and I ended up spending the whole time on the island feeding our lunches to the skinny dogs we stumbled upon. I'm not good with proximal suffering. How do others manage this or am I just too empathic?

I get you, OP. I have had trouble some places I've traveled to, and I live near a city with extremely high homeless rates and poverty. Half my family is from a third-world country as well. My friends from India have told me not to go because I would not enjoy myself at all due to the poverty. How do I manage it- I do some research and then decide if the planned destination is more likely to upset me than facilitate an interesting vacation. Yes, it's limiting, but the world is huge.

+2 I will avoid places that are abjectly poor. It is too sad. And I am an immigrant from third-world country.
I limit my experiences but will still travel to certain places to experience the people, culture and help out their tourism.

[Anonymous]

When I told my grandmother I was honeymooning in Spain in 1989 she referred to it as a third world country. Lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've traveled a lot but not to many third world countries. I have been reluctant because I feel as if bearing witness to the grinding poverty would ruin the experience for me. I couldn't sleep at night in India knowing that right outside my window there are people without the most basic means to survive. Yes, I know when I got to sleep here they are still there but somehow the thought of lookign people in the eye and not really being able to help them while touring around the country and treating them as a bit of the 'experience' feels uncomfortable for me. I mean we took a helicopter trip to a tiny island in Hawaii with fancy picnic lunches and I ended up spending the whole time on the island feeding our lunches to the skinny dogs we stumbled upon. I'm not good with proximal suffering. How do others manage this or am I just too empathic?

OP thinks that if she goes to a third world country she may feel compelled to feed the poor people like the skinny street dogs in Hawaii. This is so unreal. This has to be a troll because no one is this oblivious and privileged. FWIW, the below poverty residents of whatever country you opt to visit are not part of your freaking experience. They are not zoo animals.

Do not travel to anywhere outside of Disney, OP. You cannot handle it.

+1 This also reads to me like a troll post. The highlighting of the helicopter and the skinny dogs...no one can be that oblivious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. Of course but a lot of the people you DO encounter are the ones begging because they go where tourists are. And lots of them are being exploited by their own people so you can’t “fix” or even slightly help people. You end up enriching the corrupt in the country rather than truly helping with your tourism dollars. Some people don’t consider that a pleasant experience. It is downright depressing to feel helpless dismay. Anyone thinking they are helping are fooling themselves.

Indian-American here who grew up traveling to India frequently. Not going to pretend I didn't see poverty there, but the place I visited as a kid that most stands out to me for the number of people begging for money is actually Washington DC.

Maybe the difference is that the homeless people begging in DC - I know that there are spots available to help them like soup kitchens and homeless shelters.

You think there are no social services in India?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. Of course but a lot of the people you DO encounter are the ones begging because they go where tourists are. And lots of them are being exploited by their own people so you can’t “fix” or even slightly help people. You end up enriching the corrupt in the country rather than truly helping with your tourism dollars. Some people don’t consider that a pleasant experience. It is downright depressing to feel helpless dismay. Anyone thinking they are helping are fooling themselves.

Indian-American here who grew up traveling to India frequently. Not going to pretend I didn't see poverty there, but the place I visited as a kid that most stands out to me for the number of people begging for money is actually Washington DC.

Maybe the difference is that the homeless people begging in DC - I know that there are spots available to help them like soup kitchens and homeless shelters.

You think there are no social services in India?

I presume there are some but that they are no match for the very high poverty levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. Of course but a lot of the people you DO encounter are the ones begging because they go where tourists are. And lots of them are being exploited by their own people so you can’t “fix” or even slightly help people. You end up enriching the corrupt in the country rather than truly helping with your tourism dollars. Some people don’t consider that a pleasant experience. It is downright depressing to feel helpless dismay. Anyone thinking they are helping are fooling themselves.

Indian-American here who grew up traveling to India frequently. Not going to pretend I didn't see poverty there, but the place I visited as a kid that most stands out to me for the number of people begging for money is actually Washington DC.

Maybe the difference is that the homeless people begging in DC - I know that there are spots available to help them like soup kitchens and homeless shelters.

You think there are no social services in India?

I presume there are some but that they are no match for the very high poverty levels.

While there is definitely poverty it’s it important not to assume and to label poverty within the definition seen through a Western lens.

There have been many housing projects for decades to move people from slums to apartments. The issue is beyond actual living conditions though.

There are communities and social networks for the people in those slums and moving into even newly built housing with electricity and running water isn’t always enticing. They lose their communities and their support systems.

So then they rent out the new govt housing and stay in the slum. This is a big issue in India but also in other places Nigeria, Kenya, Mexico and other countries.

It’s easy to presume circumstances but you have to be on the ground to understand there is more complexity than ‘oh look poverty” mentality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
NP. Of course but a lot of the people you DO encounter are the ones begging because they go where tourists are. And lots of them are being exploited by their own people so you can’t “fix” or even slightly help people. You end up enriching the corrupt in the country rather than truly helping with your tourism dollars. Some people don’t consider that a pleasant experience. It is downright depressing to feel helpless dismay. Anyone thinking they are helping are fooling themselves.

Indian-American here who grew up traveling to India frequently. Not going to pretend I didn't see poverty there, but the place I visited as a kid that most stands out to me for the number of people begging for money is actually Washington DC.

Maybe the difference is that the homeless people begging in DC - I know that there are spots available to help them like soup kitchens and homeless shelters.

You think there are no social services in India?

I presume there are some but that they are no match for the very high poverty levels.

OP, if you are not a troll (and I think you're not, since you keep responding to questions), then I think you need to really examine your worldview...especially if you want to be an international traveler. Your responses sound like your ideal experience of travel is to go to somewhere like the US except with different artwork and buildings. If that's the case, I suggest EPCOT Center or Las Vegas, as they are most likely to suit your sensibilities.

Yes, many countries are less economically developed and have higher rates of poverty than the US. But those countries also don't necessarily view being like the US as the ideal. They don't want our levels of materialism and isolation. They have different religious and cultural values. As a result, they view what's bad about poverty and what needs to be solved differently. At the same time, don't over romanticize the US. As we all learned last year if we didn't already know it, tens of millions of children would starve go hungry if there wasn't a school lunch program. Many Americans and American children experience extreme poverty, even if you don't see it day-to-day. And for some of us, it's actually more galling that these things are true alongside the number of multi-billionaires our country produces.

As I read your responses, they are coming off as if you believe that the US is fundamentally superior to these other countries in how we manage our economy and support our poor. I don't think you should travel to other countries, if your approach is going to be one of superiority.