Jay Matthews: VMPI Probably Will Keep Tracking Just Because of Parent Pressure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think a change like this makes a lot of sense (From the article):

Algebra II is frequently combined with trigonometry in the third year of high school math. It covers linear equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic expressions and other topics. It is required for graduation in 20 states (not including Virginia) and the District of Columbia. But math education experts such as Phil Daro and Harold Asturias have suggested giving students the option of taking data science or quantitative reasoning instead.

I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

This would mean Algebra 2 is not covered by 10th grade and kids would not be able to take calculus in high school. VMPI is giving assurances that algebra 2 is part of Math 8-10, but I think it is more likely algebra 2 is being mostly dropped. They originally had precalculus as just a half year course, and have said in the videos that it really isn't needed in high school.

My kid does not need calculus and will not be heading in a STEM direction. I'd rather they have the option for something they may actually encounter in the real world and basic data analytics/quantitative reasoning is that IMO. quoted text even says it would an OPTION, not elimination of Algebra II altogether.

It's almost like parents should have a choice in what courses of study their kids take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think what PP is saying is that the current crop of Republicans who meet at Liberty U arent those old time Republicans who can be trusted with education policy. Sure, they may not go for CRT or VMPI, but they'll teach creationism and reclassify pi as being equal to 3.14.

No one needs calculus, statistics are made up anyway, no one needs to understand descent through natural selection, and who needs to find the area of a circle?

You can't really denigrate calculus without going down a road of making bad choices for others. Also, if you don't understand calculus, I have bad news for you about statistics.

[Anonymous]

Just wow to the underlined. If that isn't the essence of coastal elitism...and it's not a good look.

Are you going to argue that it's not exactly the attitude of the coastal elites, including the "mainstream GOP" and pretty much everyone on DCUM? That would be amusing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
When do you "need" literature? When do you "need" a foreign language? I happen to think that a fully educated person should have some exposure to calculus. Sure, you can take a research stats course that obscures the fundamental linkages to calculus. Or you can take physics or chemistry without calculus. But appreciating calculus would give you such a deeper understanding of the fields that make up modern technology. And I believe that those that can, should.

You may have a point, but the way Calculus is taught by most doesn't really add to that understanding. They teach formulas, not the purpose or beauty.

But our world is changing, and with it what educated citizens need to know. Data science, statistics, research methodology are becoming far more relevant to an educated citizenry, especially when only a fraction will go on to higher education. Heck, just understanding when politicians are playing loose with research would be a massive improvement.

I'm fervently anti-VMPI, btw, there were some good ideas in there that were lost in their zeal to harm intellectually-advanced kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

I would too but that's not what's being proposed. Watch the stream where they gave an example "non-routine" problem, which was to tile a 6x4ft room. The answer was to go to the Home Depot website and take a screenshot of the tile section. This is discovery pure and will not lead to more theory, let alone a better understanding. It's a waste of time.

The entire 3rd webinar showed that they don't have a clue or plan. They promised actual content and ended up showing that they have squat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think a change like this makes a lot of sense (From the article):

Algebra II is frequently combined with trigonometry in the third year of high school math. It covers linear equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic expressions and other topics. It is required for graduation in 20 states (not including Virginia) and the District of Columbia. But math education experts such as Phil Daro and Harold Asturias have suggested giving students the option of taking data science or quantitative reasoning instead.

I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

This would mean Algebra 2 is not covered by 10th grade and kids would not be able to take calculus in high school. VMPI is giving assurances that algebra 2 is part of Math 8-10, but I think it is more likely algebra 2 is being mostly dropped. They originally had precalculus as just a half year course, and have said in the videos that it really isn't needed in high school.

My kid does not need calculus and will not be heading in a STEM direction. I'd rather they have the option for something they may actually encounter in the real world and basic data analytics/quantitative reasoning is that IMO. quoted text even says it would an OPTION, not elimination of Algebra II altogether.

That’s a pity. I hope s/he reconsiders. I think of exposure to calculus to be something we should provide to everyone. It is so fundamental to how we understand the world these days. If your kid is reasonably academically capable, I would encourage them to take an intro calc course somewhere along their educational journey just so they understand how science is put together.

I teach HS math and I completely disagree with this statement. Statistics is orders of magnitude more useful for most people, who will have absolutely zero use for calculus the rest of their lives.

When do you "need" literature? When do you "need" a foreign language? I happen to think that a fully educated person should have some exposure to calculus. Sure, you can take a research stats course that obscures the fundamental linkages to calculus. Or you can take physics or chemistry without calculus. But appreciating calculus would give you such a deeper understanding of the fields that make up modern technology. And I believe that those that can, should.

Agreed. I can't believe that a TEACHER would make the argument about "usefulness" when a lot of things they teach in K-12 are ABSOLUTELY USELESS in real life. Art? Music? PE? Even the core subjects like English, science, & social studies have many topics that people will have absolutely no use for in everyday life.

[Anonymous]

“ I think most are neither, but are more likely to vote for a mainstream D than Trump or a Trumper. On the other hand, I'm a D would would vote for a republican of yesteryear over a lot of current democrats. The center is vanishing, but I think Ds haven't abandoned it to the extent that Rs have”

+1
Don’t take the blue wave for granted. We got here in key part by the detest of a lot of normal Rs for the Trump folks on their side. If Rs would run a half way sane candidate - let alone a real moderate R - they would be quite competitive. So long as they run mini-Trumps they are toast in VA at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good

+1

+2
However, I do agree that there is no need for many kids to take Calculus - especially those who will be majoring in the humanities. Of course, it should still be available to those who want to take it, but many kids do NOT need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think a change like this makes a lot of sense (From the article):

Algebra II is frequently combined with trigonometry in the third year of high school math. It covers linear equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic expressions and other topics. It is required for graduation in 20 states (not including Virginia) and the District of Columbia. But math education experts such as Phil Daro and Harold Asturias have suggested giving students the option of taking data science or quantitative reasoning instead.

I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

This would mean Algebra 2 is not covered by 10th grade and kids would not be able to take calculus in high school. VMPI is giving assurances that algebra 2 is part of Math 8-10, but I think it is more likely algebra 2 is being mostly dropped. They originally had precalculus as just a half year course, and have said in the videos that it really isn't needed in high school.

My kid does not need calculus and will not be heading in a STEM direction. I'd rather they have the option for something they may actually encounter in the real world and basic data analytics/quantitative reasoning is that IMO. quoted text even says it would an OPTION, not elimination of Algebra II altogether.

That’s a pity. I hope s/he reconsiders. I think of exposure to calculus to be something we should provide to everyone. It is so fundamental to how we understand the world these days. If your kid is reasonably academically capable, I would encourage them to take an intro calc course somewhere along their educational journey just so they understand how science is put together.

Oh, please. This is utter nonsense. A humanities major does NOT need calculus, period. This emphasis on STEM is overblown.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think a change like this makes a lot of sense (From the article):

Algebra II is frequently combined with trigonometry in the third year of high school math. It covers linear equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic expressions and other topics. It is required for graduation in 20 states (not including Virginia) and the District of Columbia. But math education experts such as Phil Daro and Harold Asturias have suggested giving students the option of taking data science or quantitative reasoning instead.

I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

This would mean Algebra 2 is not covered by 10th grade and kids would not be able to take calculus in high school. VMPI is giving assurances that algebra 2 is part of Math 8-10, but I think it is more likely algebra 2 is being mostly dropped. They originally had precalculus as just a half year course, and have said in the videos that it really isn't needed in high school.

My kid does not need calculus and will not be heading in a STEM direction. I'd rather they have the option for something they may actually encounter in the real world and basic data analytics/quantitative reasoning is that IMO. quoted text even says it would an OPTION, not elimination of Algebra II altogether.

That’s a pity. I hope s/he reconsiders. I think of exposure to calculus to be something we should provide to everyone. It is so fundamental to how we understand the world these days. If your kid is reasonably academically capable, I would encourage them to take an intro calc course somewhere along their educational journey just so they understand how science is put together.

I teach HS math and I completely disagree with this statement. Statistics is orders of magnitude more useful for most people, who will have absolutely zero use for calculus the rest of their lives.

+1,000,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't feel reassured at all, I just feel like they are waiting for the hysteria to die down and they will present the same exact thing again with slightly different words.

If they try it again, I'm sure someone will alert the community and the same reaction will play out again.

They are only backfracking now because of the election in November


After the dems win the state offices again, it is full speed ahead on this plan.

The dept of ed is just buying time to get through the election. After the dems win they can do whatever they want no matter what parents or math teachers want.

It’s very hard for Rs to sell the impression that they would take math education more seriously than their opponents while they meet at Liberty University.

Nice try.

Virginia had a world class education system when the state was run by Rs.

Since the fcps school board became democratic dominated, the fcps achievement gap between the haves and havs nots has grown tremendously. When Rs and centrist were in charge of the school board, all of the high schools were quality schools with high achievement.

The farther left the school board goes, the more segregated the district becomes and the chasm between schools like Lewis, Justice and Mt Vernon and schools in the rest of the county only grows deeper.

Just looking at results and outcome, a far left school board without a single voice of dissent and only one moderate (McLaughlin) has been very, very bad for the district and the students.

This is so true. I grew up here and attended FCPS - which, at the time, actually was world-class. Today, VA’s “leadership” and the FCPS SB is a complete 180 from what it once was. Very sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think what PP is saying is that the current crop of Republicans who meet at Liberty U arent those old time Republicans who can be trusted with education policy. Sure, they may not go for CRT or VMPI, but they'll teach creationism and reclassify pi as being equal to 3.14.

You are a moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think a change like this makes a lot of sense (From the article):

Algebra II is frequently combined with trigonometry in the third year of high school math. It covers linear equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic expressions and other topics. It is required for graduation in 20 states (not including Virginia) and the District of Columbia. But math education experts such as Phil Daro and Harold Asturias have suggested giving students the option of taking data science or quantitative reasoning instead.

I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

This would mean Algebra 2 is not covered by 10th grade and kids would not be able to take calculus in high school. VMPI is giving assurances that algebra 2 is part of Math 8-10, but I think it is more likely algebra 2 is being mostly dropped. They originally had precalculus as just a half year course, and have said in the videos that it really isn't needed in high school.

My kid does not need calculus and will not be heading in a STEM direction. I'd rather they have the option for something they may actually encounter in the real world and basic data analytics/quantitative reasoning is that IMO. quoted text even says it would an OPTION, not elimination of Algebra II altogether.

That’s a pity. I hope s/he reconsiders. I think of exposure to calculus to be something we should provide to everyone. It is so fundamental to how we understand the world these days. If your kid is reasonably academically capable, I would encourage them to take an intro calc course somewhere along their educational journey just so they understand how science is put together.

I teach HS math and I completely disagree with this statement. Statistics is orders of magnitude more useful for most people, who will have absolutely zero use for calculus the rest of their lives.

Thank you. I am the PP with the non-STEM kid and I could not agree more. I ended up taking calculus in college (didn't in HS b/c the teacher changed my senior year) and not only did I not understand it, I barely passed despite having a tutor and taking advantage of every extra help I could get. I have never thought of it once since then. I went to law school and now have a career in national security. I don't need calculus, but I will tell you what would be helpful in the current climate - a basic understanding of data science/data analytics, and the tools used for modeling. With the advent of AI/ML, many complex processes are going to be automated. So if your kid wants to be a mathematician, scientist, engineer, or in the medicine/hard sciences, go for it. My kid isn't going to do that and that's fine. This model of HS education remaining the same for generations will have to be examined as business processes undergo massive change in the near future.

+1
And I sincerely hope colleges stop expecting to see calculus on a HS transcript if the student has no intention of being a STEM major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think a change like this makes a lot of sense (From the article):

Algebra II is frequently combined with trigonometry in the third year of high school math. It covers linear equations, functions, exponential and logarithmic expressions and other topics. It is required for graduation in 20 states (not including Virginia) and the District of Columbia. But math education experts such as Phil Daro and Harold Asturias have suggested giving students the option of taking data science or quantitative reasoning instead.

I also like the idea of teaching math more conceptually/providing more of the theory behind it.

This would mean Algebra 2 is not covered by 10th grade and kids would not be able to take calculus in high school. VMPI is giving assurances that algebra 2 is part of Math 8-10, but I think it is more likely algebra 2 is being mostly dropped. They originally had precalculus as just a half year course, and have said in the videos that it really isn't needed in high school.

My kid does not need calculus and will not be heading in a STEM direction. I'd rather they have the option for something they may actually encounter in the real world and basic data analytics/quantitative reasoning is that IMO. quoted text even says it would an OPTION, not elimination of Algebra II altogether.

That’s a pity. I hope s/he reconsiders. I think of exposure to calculus to be something we should provide to everyone. It is so fundamental to how we understand the world these days. If your kid is reasonably academically capable, I would encourage them to take an intro calc course somewhere along their educational journey just so they understand how science is put together.

I teach HS math and I completely disagree with this statement. Statistics is orders of magnitude more useful for most people, who will have absolutely zero use for calculus the rest of their lives.

When do you "need" literature? When do you "need" a foreign language? I happen to think that a fully educated person should have some exposure to calculus. Sure, you can take a research stats course that obscures the fundamental linkages to calculus. Or you can take physics or chemistry without calculus. But appreciating calculus would give you such a deeper understanding of the fields that make up modern technology. And I believe that those that can, should.

DP. You need literature if you have any intention of being a well-rounded, cultured person. You need foreign language if you have any desire to study and work in international relations or intelligence. Has your kid taken five years of a foreign language? No? That’s a pity. They are completely missing the chance to communicate fluently with non-English speakers. Do they have any desire to live in a foreign country? Good luck without knowing the language.

In short, not taking calculus does not adversely affect non-STEM majors in any way. However, being ignorant of great literature or foreign languages just makes anyone... ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think what PP is saying is that the current crop of Republicans who meet at Liberty U arent those old time Republicans who can be trusted with education policy. Sure, they may not go for CRT or VMPI, but they'll teach creationism and reclassify pi as being equal to 3.14.

Have you actually talked to any Republicans lately? What you just said sounds straight out of the Scopes Trial from 1925. That's old time Republicans.

have you seen who they have been nominating? The Rockefeller republicans who dominated in the suburbs and used to get elected to statewide offices are long gone. Now they have closed primaries in church parking lots

OK fair, the Virginia GOP has gone insane for some reason. You'd think they would want to win...

No, no, no, you don't understand the point of the GOP in Virginia and at the national level. They are a fake opposition. They don't want to win, they just want to lose gracefully. And because they don't want to win, they have no idea what to do if they actually win in spite of themselves.

It might help you to feel more kindly towards the Republican Party if you thought of them as the joke that they are - the Washington Generals to the Democrats Harlem Globetrotters - instead of as any kind of genuine threat. I realize this will be difficult for you to accept, just as it took me a long time to accept it as a former Republican.

The best thing for all concerned, Democrat and Republican alike, is to stop pretending there are actually two parties in this country.

As long as there are serious conservatives in this country, I'm going to continue to have hope for the return of a healthy conservatism, whether it's in the Republican party of elsewhere. America needs it, IMHO.

Hahahaha, there are not now, and have never been, "serious conservatives" in this country. It has always been a grift. They are selling false hope and narcissistic delusions designed to distract the gullible. Right now their grift is just about completely played out, as it is increasingly hard for them to dress up their failed and ineffective ideas as worthy of anyone's attention. I mean, even the stupidest yokels in flyover country are eventually going to notice that "conservatives" are just Slow Progressives who want the same things as liberals, but slightly less quickly. Whatever liberal advance they grumble about today, just wait a few years and you'll see a thoughtful article in National Review (a cruise line with a political website, what a joke) explaining that this actually represents the Essence of True Conservatism.

Ah, we’ve found the Bernie Bro!